Dept. Of Agriculture - Frustration

patsy_mccabe

I've been dealing with the department a lot recently. I'm just gobsmacked at how bloody incompetent they are.
I had to fill out a form for them, over 10 pages long. They sent it out as a bad photocopy. In fact it looked like a photocopy of a photocopy. I couldn't read part of it so I searched for it online only to find a newer revision.
Sent it in anyway. Then got out another letter looking for more information. This info wasn't requested on the first letter.
Sent in the second letter and no reply for over a week so I rang them. They said they got the second letter but not the first, the filled form. Explain that one, as the second letter I sent was in response to their letter about the filled form? They then sent back my second letter to me with the first form to be filled out again.They cant find the first form. 'It may have gone to another office'.

In this day and age for a government department to do this is down right embarrassing.

Bellview

The most frustrating bunch ever to deal wigh. One of the great opportunities missed in 2011 when fg and lab got electef was a resturture of the civil service. There are parts of the public sector especially garda nurses etc that should have been left untouched while the Dept o'conne ag and administration in hse , some county council activitiesvshould have been properly evaluated and heads removed... they are too many folks duplicating doing nothing and the standard answer from ag is the system is always wrong not the fella sitting in front of the computer.. we will never see any change in the Dept now as opportunity is gone

Cavanjack

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I've been dealing with the department a lot recently. I'm just gobsmacked at how bloody incompetent they are.
I had to fill out a form for them, over 10 pages long. They sent it out as a bad photocopy. In fact it looked like a photocopy of a photocopy. I couldn't read part of it so I searched for it online only to find a newer revision.
Sent it in anyway. Then got out another letter looking for more information. This info wasn't requested on the first letter.
Sent in the second letter and no reply for over a week so I rang them. They said they got the second letter but not the first, the filled form. Explain that one, as the second letter I sent was in response to their letter about the filled form? They then sent back my second letter to me with the first form to be filled out again.They cant find the first form. 'It may have gone to another office'.

In this day and age for a government department to do this is down right embarrassing.

After a discussion with a lady in the dept one day she told me I needed to fill out a form. She said she would post it to me.
"Sure just email it to me" I said and you'll have it back in an hour.
She hesitated and said it would be handier for her to post it.
Unbelievable. How many more like her are there working in the dept? Loads I'd imagine.

ganmo

Cavanjack wrote: »

After a discussion with a lady in the dept one day she told me I needed to fill out a form. She said she would post it to me.
"Sure just email it to me" I said and you'll have it back in an hour.
She hesitated and said it would be handier for her to post it.
Unbelievable. How many more like her are there working in the dept? Loads I'd imagine.

I reckon the reluctance to email is down to the fact that then you'd have their direct email address.

krazyklown

One way to deal with these guys is always take their name and always ask for that person when dealing with a specific issue. The worst thing is to be ringing them up saying you were dealing with somebody whose name you don't have about something last week . They love that anonymity, no accountability. My dad used this to good effect, he would record who he was talking to and the jist of the conversation. Can take a bit of time, but good in the long run.

blue5000

krazyklown wrote: »

One way to deal with these guys is always take their name and always ask for that person when dealing with a specific issue. The worst thing is to be ringing them up saying you were dealing with somebody whose name you don't have about something last week . They love that anonymity, no accountability. My dad used this to good effect, he would record who he was talking to and the jist of the conversation. Can take a bit of time, but good in the long run.

Record the conversation, tell them it's for training the young lad in how to deal with the dept.

kowtow

blue5000 wrote:

Record the conversation, tell them it's for training the young lad in how to deal with the dept.

After listening to endless messages telling me that - if I lived long enough to me connected - my call would be recorded .. I once asked an HMRC guy what on earth they were all doing "training porpoises" instead of answering the phone like decent people. He wasn't very helpful after that.

kerry cow

Blue such a good idea. How would all these departments and business feel if we were to announce the call is been recorded for training purposes ?so we won't make the same Fock up again . Hi time we stood up and put these dciks on the back foot .

selectamatic

As pointed out above it's really right across the board in public sector departments. Department of education particularly the pay division are woeful, department of social welfare, department of health, county councils etc an awful lot of them are barely fit for purpose.
As with all departments there's plenty of good people in them and in time as you get used to dealing with them you get to know which person to ask for when you have a query. I just get the feeling many have whatever motivation they may have had when they started out slowly worn away be systemic negligence to the point that they no longer care.

Buford T. Justice XIX

kowtow wrote: »

After listening to endless messages telling me that - if I lived long enough to me connected - my call would be recorded .. I once asked an HMRC guy what on earth they were all doing "training porpoises" instead of answering the phone like decent people. He wasn't very helpful after that.

That's very unfair, kt.

Imagine the damage untrained porpoises could do....:pac:

Nekarsulm

kerry cow wrote: »

Blue such a good idea. How would all these departments and business feel if we were to announce the call is been recorded for training purposes ?so we won't make the same Fock up again . Hi time we stood up and put these dciks on the back foot .

I imagine your call would suddenly be cut off. You know how unreliable technology is .....
Years ago, after a TB outbreak, I recorded a conversation with the dept. Weeks later and issue still not resolved rang again, only to be told a different story. When I challenged the new sequence of events, I was told that "you must have took it up wrong".
When I insisted I knew what I was told, because I had a recording of it, they went quiet and then got off the phone as quick as possible.
Issue was sorted out. Months later another official i met in a social situation complained to me about my "behaviour"

148multi

Back in the late ninety's I received no payment, enquired in December at local DVO was told, you'll get no payment over 200 cattle and 100 sheep on only 17 acres in a village 30 miles away, so I brought in copy of application lad said fine will b sorted within a couple of months, after a month called area aid unit the lady said no copy received, soo posted them and phoned after another month, lady said no copy received, got email address sooo emailed copy of application to area aid unit. Phoned after a month lady said email address I was given was to a different building, soooo posted a copy by registered post, Phoned after another month lady called Tina said no record of receiving application but gave her email address and had it sorted in two days.

50HX

it's called jobs for the boys (+ lassies):D

like a lot of civil servants it's what keeps them in a job

i got locked out of my agfood the other day

rang to reset it and it must have been near lunchtime as the woman told me to power the pc off and on again....... i kid you not

it reminded me of Little Britain..."computer says noooo"

patsy_mccabe

If in doubt plug it out - as they say.

Sam Kade

Cavanjack wrote: »

After a discussion with a lady in the dept one day she told me I needed to fill out a form. She said she would post it to me.
"Sure just email it to me" I said and you'll have it back in an hour.
She hesitated and said it would be handier for her to post it.
Unbelievable. How many more like her are there working in the dept? Loads I'd imagine.

I was having a clearance sale back in 05 and had the cows tested and had them booked into the mart on a friday a few days before I went to the dvo and they said the cards would be ready Tuesday evening and they would post them out. The cards never arrived because some joker forgot to post them. The friday was total mayhem the cards were coming they weren't any way the vet got the cards around 1pm then the mart manager told me it was too late as the buyers had to go and collect their children from the school. I had to put the sale off for another week.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Just off the phone from the Dept after being given out to again about animals being on my profile that were sold/died months ago. I was lectured about being 'fastidious' (their word, not mine) about checking that animals going off my profile are actually off my profile. Then it turns out that they weren't on my profile with a few days, whatever section was in charge of putting the movements actually doing their job without me having to check their every move:rolleyes:

Are we now responsible for every one elses work in the traceability of animals?

I am losing my ability to actually give a damn at this stage:(

Base price

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Just off the phone from the Dept after being given out to again about animals being on my profile that were sold/died months ago. I was lectured about being 'fastidious' (their word, not mine) about checking that animals going off my profile are actually off my profile. Then it turns out that they weren't on my profile with a few days, whatever section was in charge of putting the movements actually doing their job without me having to check their every move:rolleyes:

Are we now responsible for every one elses work in the traceability of animals?

I am losing my ability to actually give a damn at this stage:(

I'm banging my head off the kitchen table reading ^^^
As I posted before - don't give inept fools the power to ruin your day. You ticked all the boxes at your end. Next time ask them if you can have access to their systems so that you can sort them out to make them work effectively AND efficiently

kowtow

Base price wrote:

I'm banging my head off the kitchen table reading ^^^ As I posted before - don't give inept fools the power to ruin your day. You ticked all the boxes at your end. Next time ask them if you can have access to their systems so that you can sort them out to make them work effectively AND efficiently

And while you're at it ask for a trace of where all the cuts from your animals ended up. I don't see why we should type in all the data and only the processors and supermarkets get the results..

Buford T. Justice XIX

Base price wrote: »

I'm banging my head off the kitchen table reading ^^^
As I posted before - don't give inept fools the power to ruin your day. You ticked all the boxes at your end. Next time ask them if you can have access to their systems so that you can sort them out to make them work effectively AND efficiently

Tbh, Bp, I don't think anything I do could make an ounce of difference.

It would seem easier to check that the changes weren't made before ringing me to give out about me not doing something I'm not responsible for doing.

Reading back that sentence shows just how mad the whole ag supervision industry is.

I might ring them back and give out to them about the price of milk. At least then I would be put on the mad farmer list and they would leave me alone.

blue5000

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Tbh, Bp, I don't think anything I do could make an ounce of difference.

It would seem easier to check that the changes weren't made before ringing me to give out about me not doing something I'm not responsible for doing.

Reading back that sentence shows just how mad the whole ag supervision industry is.

I might ring them back and give out to them about the price of milk. At least then I would be put on the mad farmer list and they would leave me alone.

I hate to disappoint you..........there's no such list. But I feel your pain, I used pay the knackery at the end of the year, one cheque, but since the tb breakdown and more frequent testing this 'economical' approach is not acceptable anymore. All sorts of threatening letters about anomalies, payments withheld etc.

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

I might ring them back and give out to them about the price of milk. At least then I would be put on the mad farmer list and they would leave me alone.

blue5000 wrote:

I hate to disappoint you..........there's no such list..

Damn. Only thing left on my bucket list.

Reggie.

kowtow wrote: »

Damn. Only thing left on my bucket list.

Well you can die happy now with your list complete

croot

blue5000 wrote: »

I hate to disappoint you..........there's no such list.

Are you sure. I'd say everyone knows some buck that pulls the absolute piss and always gets away with it.

I think our dept of ag targets straight operators as they are easier to intimidate and get a result from. Less hassle and paperwork for them. Leave the difficult one alone.

kowtow

Reggie. wrote:

Well you can die happy now with your list complete

Ah no, I've still got to deal with everything in my little black book.

Sheep breeder

Bellview wrote: »

The most frustrating bunch ever to deal wigh. One of the great opportunities missed in 2011 when fg and lab got electef was a resturture of the civil service. There are parts of the public sector especially garda nurses etc that should have been left untouched while the Dept o'conne ag and administration in hse , some county council activitiesvshould have been properly evaluated and heads removed... they are too many folks duplicating doing nothing and the standard answer from ag is the system is always wrong not the fella sitting in front of the computer.. we will never see any change in the Dept now as opportunity is gone

This is where a lot of today's problems have come from in the dept the the 2011 blue shirt crowd when they got power they closed the local office and the front desk and moved every thing to enda the muppets back yard,in our local Dvo the two women than done the front desk were the most helpful women and ever thing was sorted straight away, now you go in and ring castlebar to get a problem sorted and the ifa and the local muppet let this happen. The same as closing the local Garda station, stupid for to save money and TD getting more money,

Sheep breeder

blue5000 wrote: »

I hate to disappoint you..........there's no such list. But I feel your pain, I used pay the knackery at the end of the year, one cheque, but since the tb breakdown and more frequent testing this 'economical' approach is not acceptable anymore. All sorts of threatening letters about anomalies, payments withheld etc.

This is not the dept fault that you only paid the knackery once a year, the knackery only take an animal off the computer when they get paid for the animal,they work like a business,
Sure if you paid once a year the animals would only go off then, sure that's the reason we all pay the knackery to take the animal and move it out of our herd.this seems one rule for you and different rule for us that pay on time.

Any time I usually have to deal with the dept is for an error on my behalf or I am looking for money( single payment) which I will gladly play the game to get my hands on,

Buford T. Justice XIX

Sheep breeder wrote: »

This is not the dept fault that you only paid the knackery once a year, the knackery only take an animal off the computer when they get paid for the animal,they work like a business,
Sure if you paid once a year the animals would only go off then, sure that's the reason we all pay the knackery to take the animal and move it out of our herd.this seems one rule for you and different rule for us that pay on time.

Any time I usually have to deal with the dept is for an error on my behalf or I am looking for money( single payment) which I will gladly play the game to get my hands on,

I had a few animals going on one day in spring, cows and calves.

Paid for by cheque on collection.

The cows came off but the calves didn't.

Yet because they weren't off my CMMS list, I was left having to sort it out despite my paperwork being in order but theirs wasn't.

whelan2

Is there an ombudsman or whatever that you can complain to?

freedominacup

whelan2 wrote: »

Is there an ombudsman or whatever that you can complain to?

Yes. The same ombudsman as for any other state dept.

blue5000

You have to make a formal complaint to, guess who, the fcukin dept hq in Dublin first, before you can go to the ombudsman. They'll love you for that. The address is in the middle of the phone book, Agriculture house, kildare st.
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/contact/localoffices/headoffice/

Buford I reckon you have a case. Need all your facts though.

Buford T. Justice XIX

blue5000 wrote: »

You have to make a formal complaint to, guess who, the fcukin dept hq in Dublin first, before you can go to the ombudsman. They'll love you for that. The address is in the middle of the phone book, Agriculture house, kildare st.
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/contact/localoffices/headoffice/

Buford I reckon you have a case. Need all your facts though.

It wouldn't matter, blue. It would be a pyrrhic victory and I would be a marked man after with any inspection. I learned that the hard way already.

blue5000

That's the problem right there, everyone is scared of repercussions so nobody complains, they continue to treat us like sh1te and get away with it. There has to be independent appeals system.

whelan2

blue5000 wrote: »

That's the problem right there, everyone is scared of repercussions so nobody complains, they continue to treat us like sh1te and get away with it. There has to be independent appeals system.

Its a crap system, made a complaint about a teacher to the dept of eduaction, was told i hadnt followed the correct protocol..... which is talk to teacher involved, then principal, then board of management then dept of education... why would people bother

rangler1

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It wouldn't matter, blue. It would be a pyrrhic victory and I would be a marked man after with any inspection. I learned that the hard way already.

You're probably that already..they do read boards you know...:eek:

Buford T. Justice XIX

rangler1 wrote: »

You're probably that already..they do read boards you know...:eek:

Yeah, they do.

One that came into my yard a while back mentioned something that I was discussing on here a few weeks before.

A gentle nudge, I guess.

rangler1

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Yeah, they do.

One that came into my yard a while back mentioned something that I was discussing on here a few weeks before.

A gentle nudge, I guess.

Yea got my knuckles rapped here too...;)

tractorporn

rangler1 wrote:

You're probably that already..they do read boards you know...

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

One that came into my yard a while back mentioned something that I was discussing on here a few weeks before.

rangler1 wrote:

Yea got my knuckles rapped here too...

Bejesbus I didn't realise the Dept were that devious?? They have little to be at!!

Buford T. Justice XIX

tractorporn wrote: »

Bejesbus I didn't realise the Dept were that devious?? They have little to be at!!

It's a public forum and, even using aliases, most of us can be traced fairly easily from the information we post if someone is that way inclined.

I wonder is it on public or private time though:D

whelan2

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It's a public forum and, even using aliases, most of us can be traced fairly easily from the information we post if someone is that way inclined.

I wonder is it on public or private time though:D

1 very good reason to not put your location on your avatar

rangler1

tractorporn wrote: »

Bejesbus I didn't realise the Dept were that devious?? They have little to be at!!

They would get fairly genuine feedback here instead of some of the sh..e they have to listen to from farmers at meetings...... unlikely they're trying to catch us out.
Ireferred to one of them here by name so probably deserved it

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

1 very good reason to not put your location on your avatar

Why wouldn't you want your identity known, The best dressed lady in the Galway Races found one reason anyway.......scandalous carry on

Reggie.

rangler1 wrote: »

Why wouldn't you want your identity known, The best dressed lady in the Galway Races found one reason anyway.......scandalous carry on

What happened there

Buford T. Justice XIX

Reggie. wrote: »

What happened there

She's got trolled on social media sites for droopy boobies syndrome and terrible clothing choice. Probably by people in manky tracksuits and looking like the back of a 46a bus after being rearended.

Reggie.

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

She's got trolled on social media sites for droopy boobies syndrome and terrible clothing choice. Probably by people in manky tracksuits and looking like the back of a 46a bus after being rearended.

Making themselves feel good

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

Making themselves feel good

very easy to hide behind a keyboard

selectamatic

Reggie. wrote: »

Making themselves feel good

Always happens in all walks of life. Especially faceless social media. Be it bar stool football critics, fashion/physical appearance, career snobbery etc.

Floyd Patterson had a great comeback when a snide journalist asked him how he felt knowing he had the record of being knocked down the most times out of any other heavyweight champ; he replied I also hold the record for getting back up the most amount of times.

Bellview

Sheep breeder wrote:

This is where a lot of today's problems have come from in the dept the the 2011 blue shirt crowd when they got power they closed the local office and the front desk and moved every thing to enda the muppets back yard,in our local Dvo the two women than done the front desk were the most helpful women and ever thing was sorted straight away, now you go in and ring castlebar to get a problem sorted and the ifa and the local muppet let this happen. The same as closing the local Garda station, stupid for to save money and TD getting more money,

My comment was on their centralised functions as judge have had issues chasing payments was told in each office all my data is correct but getting passed from Cavan Wexford port laois etc and no knew in depth feels accountable. The standard answer from the Dept is blame the computer.. not the lad behind it. I have not yet seen a computer make an error .. it's the user that makes the error but the Dept folks think that the computer response is a good reason.. while it's not
The central dept believe the farmer is there to serve them not the other way around. There was a real opportunity missed to slim this down and divert the cash to the garda or more worthy causes.
On local office in our area they were rubbish even in the 90 and 00 when there was plenty of cash so I would not blame enda for all the ills ...and I'm not a fan of enda.

Hurling Hereford

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It wouldn't matter, blue. It would be a pyrrhic victory and I would be a marked man after with any inspection. I learned that the hard way already.

If you feel the Dept are being vexatious towards you with e.g. an inspection, you report them to the Ombudsman's office

Hurling Hereford

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I've been dealing with the department a lot recently. I'm just gobsmacked at how bloody incompetent they are.
I had to fill out a form for them, over 10 pages long. They sent it out as a bad photocopy. In fact it looked like a photocopy of a photocopy. I couldn't read part of it so I searched for it online only to find a newer revision.
Sent it in anyway. Then got out another letter looking for more information. This info wasn't requested on the first letter.
Sent in the second letter and no reply for over a week so I rang them. They said they got the second letter but not the first, the filled form. Explain that one, as the second letter I sent was in response to their letter about the filled form? They then sent back my second letter to me with the first form to be filled out again.They cant find the first form. 'It may have gone to another office'.

In this day and age for a government department to do this is down right embarrassing.

More than one office in Portlaoise, just saying. Did you state clearly on the envelope the section that you wanted your correspondence to be sent to?

Hurling Hereford

Cavanjack wrote: »

After a discussion with a lady in the dept one day she told me I needed to fill out a form. She said she would post it to me.
"Sure just email it to me" I said and you'll have it back in an hour.
She hesitated and said it would be handier for her to post it.
Unbelievable. How many more like her are there working in the dept? Loads I'd imagine.

The need original signatures for auditing purposes

Hurling Hereford

ganmo wrote: »

I reckon the reluctance to email is down to the fact that then you'd have their direct email address.

You can ask an officer for his/her name and they have to give it to you. Same way they have to give their [ersonal e-mail address if requested