Renewal of Broombridge Irish Rail

pmcc1

Hello,
Does anybody know for sure what plans or timeline - if any, are set for the redevelopment of Broombridge railway station? I note on the Wiki article* that it is expected the station will be completely rebuilt this year in tandem with, or in anticipation of the new tram depot located just behind. However, on the LuasCrossCity site**, visualizations and engineering plans describe no alteration whatever on the Irish Rail side of the fence. Nor does the Irish Rail site make any mention and there is no sign of IR works at Broombridge.
Is it possible that they’ll undermine the thrust of renewal which the new tram infrastructure brings to Cabra West, by leaving the existing, stinking mainline station untouched? It almost seems an invitation to continue nefarious business as usual at this notorious stop.

* h t t p s : en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Broombridge_railway_station
** h t t p s : / / w w w . luascrosscity . ie / galleries / broombridge-depot

yannakis

You know, one space would be enough in the links

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broombridge_railway_station
https://www.luascrosscity.ie/galleries/broombridge-depot/

MayoSalmon

Existing station looks untouched in those images

FreudianSlippers

I understand from skyscrapercity that there are no plans for Broombridge rail stop at all. Seems incredible since they're there doing work on the Luas depot, but nothing surprises me any more.

Carawaystick

I thought there's a new overbridge to go in at the tram stop end of the platforms.
http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/02-STRUCTURES/17_BXD_ST_30_D-0.pdf

FreudianSlippers

Carawaystick wrote: »

I thought there's a new overbridge to go in at the tram stop end of the platforms.
http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/02-STRUCTURES/17_BXD_ST_30_D-0.pdf

Yes, there is a new bridge across, but the stop itself is remaining in it's poor (very poor) condition.

Vic_08

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Yes, there is a new bridge across, but the stop itself is remaining in it's poor (very poor) condition.

What is it precisely that you want to be provided there?

A previous fantasist seemed to expect an overall roof which no other similar station on the network has.

Hopefully the development of the area will rid the worst of the scum from hanging around so the station can be cleaned up and seating/shelters added but beyond that what else do you expect for an urban stop?

Saipanne

Every time the touch off/on box is fixed, it gets smashed to pieces. Is there any point in wasting money on this stop?

1huge1

Well perhaps having a depot, there will be some sort of 24hr presence there, in terms of security, and being right beside the Irish Rail station, I'm sure it will fall under their watch.

Also, the Luas stop I imagine will be used by the local population significantly more than the current Commuter Rail stop (owing to the poor and infrequent service on the Western Line) which should also help.

MJohnston

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I understand from skyscrapercity that there are no plans for Broombridge rail stop at all. Seems incredible since they're there doing work on the Luas depot, but nothing surprises me any more.

The thing is that the "they" is a different group between Luas and Irish Rail

Grandeeod

I would speculate that IE are waiting to see how things transpire after the luas opens. Luas should bring some level of normality to an area that was previously a no mans land.

FreudianSlippers

Vic_08 wrote: »

What is it precisely that you want to be provided there?

A previous fantasist seemed to expect an overall roof which no other similar station on the network has.

Hopefully the development of the area will rid the worst of the scum from hanging around so the station can be cleaned up and seating/shelters added but beyond that what else do you expect for an urban stop?

Obviously a fully sheltered stop is a bit ridiculous; but if you compare this stop to Ashtown, they're night and day.

FreudianSlippers

MJohnston wrote: »

The thing is that the "they" is a different group between Luas and Irish Rail

I thought TII did Irish Rail work as well? If that's the case and Irish Rail aren't under the remit of the old Railway Procurement Agency, then all I can do is just facepalm at the level of idiocy and overlap in this country!

FreudianSlippers

Grandeeod wrote: »

I would speculate that IE are waiting to see how things transpire after the luas opens. Luas should bring some level of normality to an area that was previously a no mans land.

Perhaps. Am I correct that Broombridge will be a DART stop as well once the line is electrified?

dustyrip

They seriously need to do something with this station anyway. Needs more security to deal with some of the filth that get on at this station.

I was on the train from Maynooth a few weeks ago and 10 or so teenagers fully clad in their best tracksuits & white runners got on hurling abuse at all the passengers. There was four empty water bottles on the train which they started throwing at passengers. The bottles hit numerous people in the face. The train was stopped for 10-15 minutes at Broombridge. They also pulled the red emergency lead before they got off.

There must be a few bad stories from this station every week. They tend to throw rocks and stones at the windows of the train too! Complete scum.

Grandeeod

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Perhaps. Am I correct that Broombridge will be a DART stop as well once the line is electrified?

Yep.

yannakis

Is there a timeline for the electrification of the line?

Also, if you know, are they going to get rid of level crossings only at the electrification stage?

MayoSalmon

YanisK wrote: »

Is there a timeline for the electrification of the line?

Also, if you know, are they going to get rid of level crossings only at the electrification stage?

Timeline would be 20never:pac:

MJohnston

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Timeline would be 20never:pac:

Optimistic - I would say 21never myself

icdg

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I thought TII did Irish Rail work as well? If that's the case and Irish Rail aren't under the remit of the old Railway Procurement Agency, then all I can do is just facepalm at the level of idiocy and overlap in this country!

Irish Rail were never under the remit of the Railway Prourement Agency. It was a daft name for a body whose main responsibility was trams (though it also had responsibility for planning Metro North, to be fair)

markpb

icdg wrote:

Irish Rail were never under the remit of the Railway Prourement Agency. It was a daft name for a body whose main responsibility was trams (though it also had responsibility for planning Metro North, to be fair)

Trams and motorways, a natural pairing.

L1011

markpb wrote: »

Trams and motorways, a natural pairing.

Definitely - there's all those international examples of trams running down the medians of motorways... aren't there?



Of all the McCarthy report suggestions for merged QUANGOs this was the stupidest and yet they did it!

newacc2015

1huge1 wrote: »

Also, the Luas stop I imagine will be used by the local population significantly more than the current Commuter Rail stop (owing to the poor and infrequent service on the Western Line) which should also help.

I dont think there will be anymore ridership. The area around Broombridge is literally just an old industrial which arent even really open to the public compared to the likes of Sandyford industrial estate.

My two cents is that most of the area will be zoned residential in the next decade or so and turned into apartments. The area is really close to the city and it doesnt make sense having 75% of those units there rather than somewhere beyond on the M50

MJohnston

Are you kidding? Royal Canal Park and Cabra residents will flood into that new Luas line, it's an absolutely fantastic connection to the city centre and beyond.

markpb

MJohnston wrote: »

Are you kidding? Royal Canal Park and Cabra residents will flood into that new Luas line, it's an absolutely fantastic connection to the city centre and beyond.

Interestingly there are no plans to improve the existing canal tow path between Royal Canal Park and Luas Broombridge. No lights, no security, just a quiet, dark park though a rough as hell industrial estate with existing anti-social behaviour problems. I can't see many people walking between the two after dark.

I'm sure the Luas stop will do well and will be a great addition to the area but ignoring access to the Luas stop seems like a huge omission to me.

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

Interestingly there are no plans to improve the existing canal tow path between Royal Canal Park and Luas Broombridge. No lights, no security, just a quiet, dark park though a rough as hell industrial estate with existing anti-social behaviour problems. I can't see many people walking between the two after dark.

I'm sure the Luas stop will do well and will be a great addition to the area but ignoring access to the Luas stop seems like a huge omission to me.

From memory, the tow path is fine between RCP and the old Rathoath Road bridge, then its short stretch to the Luas. Or you could walk along the Ballybogan Road I suppose if the tow path felt dodgy. I suspect there will be safety in numbers for most of the day, but yeah, they ought to give that stretch a bit of care and attention (its about the only bit inside the M50 that isn't great for cycling on either. This is potentially part of the Royal Canal Greenway plans, rather than in the Luas works.

PhoenixParker

This is potentially part of the Royal Canal Greenway plans, rather than in the Luas works.

It is and I've definitely seen a plan for it somewhere but no start date etc. In the pipeline yet.

Here, found em:
http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-planning-planning-news/royal-canal-greenway-part-8

webwayz

Hopefully the Broombridge/Cabra station will be improved with the addition of the Luas stop. It should allow for commuters from the Sligo/Maynooth and Dunboyne, lines to alight and take the luas into town, to DIT Gormanstown, or the green line luas.
The station landscaped with the Royal Canal Greenway, and the Bridge where mathematician William Rowan Hamilton discovered Quaternions.

SmartinMartin

There's been major land-clearing going on on the piece of ground between the canal and claremont, just beyond the cottages. Would that be to do with the luas works?

ongarboy

webwayz wrote: »

Hopefully the Broombridge/Cabra station will be improved with the addition of the Luas stop. It should allow for commuters from the Sligo/Maynooth and Dunboyne, lines to alight and take the luas into town, to DIT Gormanstown, or the green line luas.
The station landscaped with the Royal Canal Greenway, and the Bridge where mathematician William Rowan Hamilton discovered Quaternions.

Will Broombridge passengers have to change at Stephens Green for Green line or will all trams be direct services from Broombridge to Sandyford/Cherrywood?

Vic_08

ongarboy wrote: »

Will Broombridge passengers have to change at Stephens Green for Green line or will all trams be direct services from Broombridge to Sandyford/Cherrywood?

AFAIR Broombridge services will go as far as Sandyford, a change needed to go beyond there.

markpb

ongarboy wrote:

Will Broombridge passengers have to change at Stephens Green for Green line or will all trams be direct services from Broombridge to Sandyford/Cherrywood?

Rumour has its half the trams will run Broombridge to Sandyford and half from St Stephens Green to Cherrywood. Hasn't been confirmed yet though.

theskeptic

markpb wrote: »

Rumour has its half the trams will run Broombridge to Sandyford and half from St Stephens Green to Cherrywood. Hasn't been confirmed yet though.

I though the Cherrywood service was to loop around at O'Connel St, turning right at the Parnell monument and back up Marlborough St. Although they are also building a turn back facility at St Stephen's Green (between top of Dawson St and Starbucks) to facilitate trams turning back at SSG (without blocking existing platforms).

LXFlyer

ongarboy wrote: »

Will Broombridge passengers have to change at Stephens Green for Green line or will all trams be direct services from Broombridge to Sandyford/Cherrywood?

As above - the Green Line will extend to Broombridge.

Expected operating pattern is Brides Glen to Parnell and loop back, and Sandyford-Broombridge.

Carawaystick

I thought I saw an official-looking announcement it'd be Parnell - Sandyford and Brides Glen - Broombridge earlier this week.
I remember thinking the northside was getting a poor service so.
I'll try see where I read that.

FreudianSlippers

I don't really understand Parnell; I would have thought Grangegorman would have made more logistical sense?

mrsdewinter

SmartinMartin wrote: »

There's been major land-clearing going on on the piece of ground between the canal and claremont, just beyond the cottages. Would that be to do with the luas works?

I've wondered about that myself. It seems to go as far as the other railway line - the Phoenix Park tunnel line? Like, it's probably a good wodge of land.

PhoenixParker

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I don't really understand Parnell; I would have thought Grangegorman would have made more logistical sense?

The north and south bound tracks split, northbound runs up O'Connell Street and the southbound down Marlborough street. They come back into parallel running on Parnell Street.

The set up means that (with appropriate points) it's very easy for a tram to do a 180 and run O'Connell Street and turn right and then right again to run down Marlborough Street. No wasted time and covering what will be the busiest city centre stops.

https://www.luascrosscity.ie/route-map-and-alignment-drawings-2/

Carawaystick

The link for the routing
https://twitter.com/LuasCrossCity/status/763002572940673024

ArmaniJeanss

I'm sure theres good operational reasons for Broombridge to SSG, but I don't think its great for commuters.
SSG is perfect for shopping & leisure, but the next two stops Harcourt & Charlemont are office block central where people will travel for work.

Getting off at SSG and walking, or a 3-5 minute wait to transfer to another tram on the same line are not great options, albeit not disastrously bad.

But its like they've come up with routings to suit the operator rather than the customer which is never a good start.

Khuitlio

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm sure theres good operational reasons for Broombridge to SSG, but I don't think its great for commuters.
SSG is perfect for shopping & leisure, but the next two stops Harcourt & Charlemont are office block central where people will travel for work.

Getting off at SSG and walking, or a 3-5 minute wait to transfer to another tram on the same line are not great options, albeit not disastrously bad.

But its like they've come up with routings to suit the operator rather than the customer which is never a good start.

The routes are Broombridge - Brides Glen and Parnell to Sandyford.

Broombridge - SSG is only mentioned to show the time it takes to travel the length of the new extension.

ArmaniJeanss

Khuitlio wrote: »

The routes are Broombridge - Brides Glen and Parnell to Sandyford.

Broombridge - SSG is only mentioned to show the time it takes to travel the length of the new extension.

Ah cool, complete reading failure by me. Back to sleep

Geuze

So half of all northbound trams will turn left at top of OCS for Broombridge, and half will turn right from OCS onto Parnell, to swing south again.

Okay.

Geuze

Some questions:

The maps indicate that the two stops on OCS will be towards, or on, the central median - is that correct?


Can I confirm the stop on Dawson serves both directions?

MJohnston

Geuze wrote: »

Some questions:

The maps indicate that the two stops on OCS will be towards, or on, the central median - is that correct?

Yes, both are on the central median, you can check Alignment drawing 1.3 here: http://www.luascrosscity.ie/map/alignmentdrawings/

Can I confirm the stop on Dawson serves both directions?

Yes it does:

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

So half of all northbound trams will turn left at top of OCS for Broombridge, and half will turn right from OCS onto Parnell, to swing south again.

I'm curious what frequencies might be like.

Let's say off-peak, if every 10 mins from Broombridge, that implies every 5 mins along the central section from Sandyford to Parnell.

How does that compare with the east-west line?

MJohnston

Red Line has a stated peak frequency of 3-6 minutes, Green Line already has a stated peak frequency of 4-10 minutes.

yannakis

Geuze wrote: »

I'm curious what frequencies might be like.

Let's say off-peak, if every 10 mins from Broombridge, that implies every 5 mins along the central section from Sandyford to Parnell.

How does that compare with the east-west line?

That's a proper update for the area from the current train-every-hour :cool:

mille100piedi

is the dart going to run more often? there is no point having a luas that run often when there is only a train every hour

yannakis

mille100piedi wrote: »

is the dart going to run more often? there is no point having a luas that run often when there is only a train every hour

There are more Luas stops through densely populated areas, so the train isn't the only feeder.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it to be more frequent :cool: ..and electrified :rolleyes: ..and upgrade the level clossings

LXFlyer

mille100piedi wrote: »

is the dart going to run more often? there is no point having a luas that run often when there is only a train every hour

YanisK wrote: »

There are more Luas stops through densely populated areas, so the train isn't the only feeder.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it to be more frequent :cool: ..and electrified :rolleyes: ..and upgrade the level clossings

First off it's not the DART - it's suburban rail.

Secondly there are no immediate plans to increase off-peak frequencies which is why I have consistently said that I don't see Broombridge being used by significant numbers of people as an interchange location outbound, given that it will be hard to predict when people will need to board a tram that has no published timetable (apart from frequency which is likely to be 6-10 minutes) to interchange with a train that is at an hourly frequency. The need to pay a second fare is another reason.

The primary reason for the LUAS Green Line extension is not to connect with rail services at Broombridge but to extend connectivity through the city centre, DIT Grangegorman and north inner city suburbs.