Renewal of Broombridge Irish Rail

markpb

ongarboy wrote:

Will Broombridge passengers have to change at Stephens Green for Green line or will all trams be direct services from Broombridge to Sandyford/Cherrywood?

Rumour has its half the trams will run Broombridge to Sandyford and half from St Stephens Green to Cherrywood. Hasn't been confirmed yet though.

theskeptic

markpb wrote: »

Rumour has its half the trams will run Broombridge to Sandyford and half from St Stephens Green to Cherrywood. Hasn't been confirmed yet though.

I though the Cherrywood service was to loop around at O'Connel St, turning right at the Parnell monument and back up Marlborough St. Although they are also building a turn back facility at St Stephen's Green (between top of Dawson St and Starbucks) to facilitate trams turning back at SSG (without blocking existing platforms).

LXFlyer

ongarboy wrote: »

Will Broombridge passengers have to change at Stephens Green for Green line or will all trams be direct services from Broombridge to Sandyford/Cherrywood?

As above - the Green Line will extend to Broombridge.

Expected operating pattern is Brides Glen to Parnell and loop back, and Sandyford-Broombridge.

Carawaystick

I thought I saw an official-looking announcement it'd be Parnell - Sandyford and Brides Glen - Broombridge earlier this week.
I remember thinking the northside was getting a poor service so.
I'll try see where I read that.

FreudianSlippers

I don't really understand Parnell; I would have thought Grangegorman would have made more logistical sense?

mrsdewinter

SmartinMartin wrote: »

There's been major land-clearing going on on the piece of ground between the canal and claremont, just beyond the cottages. Would that be to do with the luas works?

I've wondered about that myself. It seems to go as far as the other railway line - the Phoenix Park tunnel line? Like, it's probably a good wodge of land.

PhoenixParker

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I don't really understand Parnell; I would have thought Grangegorman would have made more logistical sense?

The north and south bound tracks split, northbound runs up O'Connell Street and the southbound down Marlborough street. They come back into parallel running on Parnell Street.

The set up means that (with appropriate points) it's very easy for a tram to do a 180 and run O'Connell Street and turn right and then right again to run down Marlborough Street. No wasted time and covering what will be the busiest city centre stops.

https://www.luascrosscity.ie/route-map-and-alignment-drawings-2/

Carawaystick

The link for the routing
https://twitter.com/LuasCrossCity/status/763002572940673024

ArmaniJeanss

I'm sure theres good operational reasons for Broombridge to SSG, but I don't think its great for commuters.
SSG is perfect for shopping & leisure, but the next two stops Harcourt & Charlemont are office block central where people will travel for work.

Getting off at SSG and walking, or a 3-5 minute wait to transfer to another tram on the same line are not great options, albeit not disastrously bad.

But its like they've come up with routings to suit the operator rather than the customer which is never a good start.

Khuitlio

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm sure theres good operational reasons for Broombridge to SSG, but I don't think its great for commuters.
SSG is perfect for shopping & leisure, but the next two stops Harcourt & Charlemont are office block central where people will travel for work.

Getting off at SSG and walking, or a 3-5 minute wait to transfer to another tram on the same line are not great options, albeit not disastrously bad.

But its like they've come up with routings to suit the operator rather than the customer which is never a good start.

The routes are Broombridge - Brides Glen and Parnell to Sandyford.

Broombridge - SSG is only mentioned to show the time it takes to travel the length of the new extension.

ArmaniJeanss

Khuitlio wrote: »

The routes are Broombridge - Brides Glen and Parnell to Sandyford.

Broombridge - SSG is only mentioned to show the time it takes to travel the length of the new extension.

Ah cool, complete reading failure by me. Back to sleep

Geuze

So half of all northbound trams will turn left at top of OCS for Broombridge, and half will turn right from OCS onto Parnell, to swing south again.

Okay.

Geuze

Some questions:

The maps indicate that the two stops on OCS will be towards, or on, the central median - is that correct?


Can I confirm the stop on Dawson serves both directions?

MJohnston

Geuze wrote: »

Some questions:

The maps indicate that the two stops on OCS will be towards, or on, the central median - is that correct?

Yes, both are on the central median, you can check Alignment drawing 1.3 here: http://www.luascrosscity.ie/map/alignmentdrawings/

Can I confirm the stop on Dawson serves both directions?

Yes it does:

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

So half of all northbound trams will turn left at top of OCS for Broombridge, and half will turn right from OCS onto Parnell, to swing south again.

I'm curious what frequencies might be like.

Let's say off-peak, if every 10 mins from Broombridge, that implies every 5 mins along the central section from Sandyford to Parnell.

How does that compare with the east-west line?

MJohnston

Red Line has a stated peak frequency of 3-6 minutes, Green Line already has a stated peak frequency of 4-10 minutes.

yannakis

Geuze wrote: »

I'm curious what frequencies might be like.

Let's say off-peak, if every 10 mins from Broombridge, that implies every 5 mins along the central section from Sandyford to Parnell.

How does that compare with the east-west line?

That's a proper update for the area from the current train-every-hour :cool:

mille100piedi

is the dart going to run more often? there is no point having a luas that run often when there is only a train every hour

yannakis

mille100piedi wrote: »

is the dart going to run more often? there is no point having a luas that run often when there is only a train every hour

There are more Luas stops through densely populated areas, so the train isn't the only feeder.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it to be more frequent :cool: ..and electrified :rolleyes: ..and upgrade the level clossings

LXFlyer

mille100piedi wrote: »

is the dart going to run more often? there is no point having a luas that run often when there is only a train every hour

YanisK wrote: »

There are more Luas stops through densely populated areas, so the train isn't the only feeder.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it to be more frequent :cool: ..and electrified :rolleyes: ..and upgrade the level clossings

First off it's not the DART - it's suburban rail.

Secondly there are no immediate plans to increase off-peak frequencies which is why I have consistently said that I don't see Broombridge being used by significant numbers of people as an interchange location outbound, given that it will be hard to predict when people will need to board a tram that has no published timetable (apart from frequency which is likely to be 6-10 minutes) to interchange with a train that is at an hourly frequency. The need to pay a second fare is another reason.

The primary reason for the LUAS Green Line extension is not to connect with rail services at Broombridge but to extend connectivity through the city centre, DIT Grangegorman and north inner city suburbs.

yannakis

lxflyer wrote: »

First off it's not the DART - it's suburban rail.

Secondly there are no immediate plans to increase off-peak frequencies which is why I have consistently said that I don't see Broombridge being used by significant numbers of people as an interchange location outbound, given that it will be hard to predict when people will need to get a tram that has no published timetable to interchange with a train that is at an hourly frequency. The need to pay a second fare is another concern.

It's actually Commuter Rail, but anyway. To the point, you already get a pretty fair discount when using a two or more services within 90' https://about.leapcard.ie/leap-90

PhoenixParker

Broombridge has an off peak frequency of 1 train per hour, but it's considerably higher at peak times, for instance there are 10 trains towards the centre between 7am and 9am, 4 to the Docklands and 6 to Pearse. Similarly there are 10 outbound trains between 5pm and 7pm.

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/14_m3_parkway_maynooth_longford.pdf

There are also some longer distance trains that pass through the station that have the potential to add a stop at Broombridge with no additional train movements.

Service frequency improvements are needed, but even without frequency improvements, there will be interchange there. Heuston services with similar frequencies and the same pricing implications see considerable levels of interchange.

trellheim

cough ALSO interchange station where LUAS and PPT track cross cough

LXFlyer

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Broombridge has an off peak frequency of 1 train per hour, but it's considerably higher at peak times, for instance there are 10 trains towards the centre between 7am and 9am, 4 to the Docklands and 6 to Pearse. Similarly there are 10 outbound trains between 5pm and 7pm.

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/14_m3_parkway_maynooth_longford.pdf

There are also some longer distance trains that pass through the station that have the potential to add a stop at Broombridge with no additional train movements.

Service frequency improvements are needed, but even without frequency improvements, there will be interchange there. Heuston services with similar frequencies and the same pricing implications see considerable levels of interchange.

Heuston has double the number of trams if not more.

There is a significant difference between that situation and Broombridge in that the trains continue from Broombridge to the city centre rather than terminating there.

mille100piedi

I live in Ashtown near the dart station and years ago I could always find a seat available on the dart but now it is impossible. And I don't travel during peak hours. I really hope the 120 will bring people near the luas stop at broombridge. The bus is every 20 minutes a reasonable time to wait.

Kilough

Why is the Broadstone station called Broadstone - DIT? Surely it makes more sense to have Grangegorman - DIT seeing as most of DIT should be moved by the time this starts running.

ongarboy

YanisK wrote: »

That's a proper update for the area from the current train-every-hour :cool:

If you're referring to the Maynooth line, that only occurs during the offpeak hours of 11am to 4pm and after 9pm. Anytime I get a train during those off peak times, they are always plenty of empty seats for the full duration of the journey so I can understand why there aren't running every 15 minutes during those quieter times. Sure, I'd like such frequency too in an ideal world but it would be a crazy waste of taxpayers money.

Separately, I do wonder if it will be realistically worthwhile using a train/luas combo if I departed Clonsilla and worked in Stephens Green area or would a direct train to Tara/Pearse and walk still beat it time wise?

markpb

ongarboy wrote:

If you're referring to the Maynooth line, that only occurs during the offpeak hours of 11am to 4pm and after 9pm. Anytime I get a train during those off peak times, they are always plenty of empty seats for the full duration of the journey so I can understand why there aren't running every 15 minutes during those quieter times. Sure, I'd like such frequency too in an ideal world but it would be a crazy waste of taxpayers money.

Do you ever wonder why the train line between Castleknock and the city centre can only sustain 1tph but the Dart line between Howth junction and city centre has 4tph and the Luas line between Tallaght and the city centre has 6-8tph?

They're all the same distance, have roughly the same population and none have major trip generators at their suburban terminus.

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

Do you ever wonder why the train line between Castleknock and the city centre can only sustain 1tph but the Dart line between Howth junction and city centre has 4tph and the Luas line between Tallaght and the city centre has 6-8tph?

They're all the same distance, have roughly the same population and none have major trip generators at their suburban terminus.

Capacity.

markpb

MJohnston wrote:

Capacity.

Bingo. Nothing to do with lack of demand. Poor train service attracts few passengers.