Possible 2 full state pensions?

TheBeach

mmc272 wrote:

“You can pay Class 2 NICs if you are employed or self­employed abroad and if you satisfy the following conditions: • you have lived in the UK for a continuous 3­year period at any time before the period for which NICs are to be paid ­ (if you have lived or worked in another EEA country or in Turkey, time spent there may help you to meet this condition) • before going abroad you paid a set amount in NICs for 3 years or more (this will be checked when you ask to pay Class 2 NICs) • immediately before going abroad you were ordinarily an employed or self­employed earner in the UKâ€

Do they definitely pay out on them at pension age though?

Charisteas

MIKEKC wrote: »

If you paid P. R. S I for ten years here you will get full pension

That is/was true for current pensioners, but that rule is being scrapped under the new 2018 pension reforms.

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Really?,don't know what ive been reading ,thought it was now 30yrs, but if its 10yrs i will be covered.

I don't think the new reforms have been finalised yet, but it appears that they are mirroring the UK system, i.e. 10 years (520 weekly payments) is the current amount to get your foot on the ladder and at least claim the minimum amount. So it looks like you're already guaranteed an Irish pension.

To claim the maximum amount, you will need 30 years worth of contributions (although some press releases are actually saying 40 years, so I guess a decision hasn't been finalised yet.)

Either way, if you pass the 10 year mark, but can't reach the maximum 30 or 40 year mark, you will get the pro-rata fraction of the full rate. For example if you retire with 23 years worth of contributions, you can receive 23/30th (or 23/40th) of the full rate.

TheBeach wrote: »

No. Because you can't pay prsi in two countries at the same time.

I think you're mistaken here; can you please provide a source for this?

TheBeach

Charisteas wrote:

That is/was true for current pensioners, but that rule is being scrapped under the new 2018 pension reforms.

No it isn't true. The only person who would qualify for a FULL pension based on 10 years of stamps would be someone who started working /paying prsi for the first time at age 55 and worked for ten consecutive years. Very few people would fall into that category. (And this is under current rules). Hope that makes sense.

Lumina

We get another year of cheap contributions!

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/protect/2017/11/abolition-of-class-2-national-insurance-payments-delayed-until-2019

TheBeach

Charisteas wrote:

I think you're mistaken here; can you please provide a source for this?

Go on to Europe.eu website. It is there under the social insurance section. Sorry I'm unable to copy and paste on the phone.

Charisteas

Europa.eu is a useful website and there is an awful lot of legal jargon on the site, and while I'm trying to read and take in as much as I can, I'll probably have to have to come back to it sporadically.

Though my early impressions are that they do acknowledge and accept being able to contribute towards insurance schemes in two member states, appearing to leave it open to each individual EU member state to determine if they will accept voluntary contributions from someone who is already paying compulsory in a different state.

This is article 14, titled 'Voluntary insurance or optional continued insurance', section 3 -

However, in respect of invalidity, old age and survivors' benefits, the person concerned may join the voluntary or optional continued insurance scheme of a Member State, even if he/she is compulsorily subject to the legislation of another Member State, provided that he/she has been subject, at some stage in his/her career, to the legislation of the first Member State because or as a consequence of an activity as an employed or self-employed person and if such overlapping is explicitly or implicitly allowed under the legislation of the first Member State.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32004R0883R(01)


And in a other regulation section there is this -

Where the legislation of a Member State makes admission to voluntary insurance or optional continued insurance conditional upon residence in that Member State or upon previous activity as an employed or self-employed person, Article 5(b) shall apply only to persons who have been subject, at some earlier stage, to the legislation of that Member State on the basis of an activity as an employed or self-employed person.’;

And in the Germany section of the same page -

a person who is compulsorily insured in another Member State or receives an old-age pension under the legislation of another Member State may join the voluntary insurance scheme in Germany.

And for France -

Nationals of other Member States whose place of residence or usual abode is outside France and who fulfil the general conditions of the French pension insurance scheme may pay voluntary contributions to it only if they had been voluntarily or compulsorily insured in the French pension insurance scheme at some time previously

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32009R0988http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32009R0988

And we already know the UK also accept voluntary contributions as per other posters on this forum currently making contributions.

If you come from the UK to Ireland (or any other country), you can opt in to pay UK voluntary contributions (upon meeting a 3 year requirement rule) and shouldn't have any problems even if you are paying your compulsory PRSI in Ireland.

But it seems that if you went the other way, from Ireland to the UK (or any other country in the EU), then Ireland will not accept your voluntary contribution application if you started to work and were paying UK National Insurance.
Ireland's rules are

You can choose to pay voluntary contributions (if you are under 66 and meet the other conditions) if you:

Are no longer covered by compulsory PRSI in Ireland
Are no longer covered by PRSI on a compulsory or voluntary basis in another EU country

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Voluntary-Pay-Related-Social-Insurance-PRSI-Contributions.aspx

Of course, the UK is leaving the EU on 29th March 2019, so possibly after this date it would be possible.

amtc

My grandmother (who died last week) received a strange mix of a widows pension from here, a widows pension from the uk where my grandfather worked before he died in 1984 and her own pension in Australia. I always thought it was unfair that when the pension was increased here or in the uk her Australian one was reduced so she never got an increase.

dossier279

Charisteas wrote: »

Europa.eu is a useful website and there is an awful lot of legal jargon on the site, and while I'm trying to read and take in as much as I can, I'll probably have to have to come back to it sporadically.

Though my early impressions are that they do acknowledge and accept being able to contribute towards insurance schemes in two member states, appearing to leave it open to each individual EU member state to determine if they will accept voluntary contributions from someone who is already paying compulsory in a different state.

This is article 14, titled 'Voluntary insurance or optional continued insurance', section 3 -






And in a other regulation section there is this -



And in the Germany section of the same page -



And for France -





And we already know the UK also accept voluntary contributions as per other posters on this forum currently making contributions.

If you come from the UK to Ireland (or any other country), you can opt in to pay UK voluntary contributions (upon meeting a 3 year requirement rule) and shouldn't have any problems even if you are paying your compulsory PRSI in Ireland.

But it seems that if you went the other way, from Ireland to the UK (or any other country in the EU), then Ireland will not accept your voluntary contribution application if you started to work and were paying UK National Insurance.
Ireland's rules are



Of course, the UK is leaving the EU on 29th March 2019, so possibly after this date it would be possible.

I came across this after googling, but agree, this is an excellent point. I am already paying Voluntary Class 2 NICs for UK NI for state pension purposes, and will look into Voluntary PRSI for the Irish state pension.

Charisteas

Good news for people currently paying class 2 voluntary contributions; the plans to abolish class 2 national insurance in April 2019 have been scrapped completely.