Does the GAA damage us globally?

ClovenHoof

Watching Portugal win last night, as well as the exploits of Wales, Norn Iron and Iceland should finally put to bed this myth of Ireland (this part) punching above our weight in international sports. From the olympics, to rugby to soccer we are not anything special.

Does the GAA creating a mindset that the local inter parish final being the pinnacle of human sporting achievement rob us of athletes who could represent Ireland on the international stage by effectively ghettoising them at a very young age?

There are still numerous secondary schools around the country where the.principle is a "real GAA mam" and kids are basically unofficially banned from other codes. All the money, attention and favours go to the gaa kids. More importantly it creates a pathological "big fish, tiny pond" mentality.

mrsdewinter

It's not the GAA that holds us back, it's the cult of pathological self-hatred.

biko

To answer the OP - no, GAA doesn't rob anyone of cricket talents.

s4uv3

Nope.

The GAA trains, educates, and nurtures a huge amount of our young kids, giving them physical and emotional tools that will carry them well in adulthood.
It does not foster a culture of diving to the ground and rolling around screaming while holding a leg that nobody hit, and earning millions of euro a year for doing so.
GAA does so much more good than harm for sport in Ireland it's not even questionable tbh.

People who hate the GAA are usually just bitter over some grievance.

Collie D

And also we got knocked out at same stage as NI

beach_walker

Totally agree OP. Just look at the US and American football, or Oz and AFL. Imagine how successful those countries could be internationally if they abandoned their own games.

kfallon

Norn Iron were shíte at the Euros tbh, they were lucky they played the worst team in the competition.

Just tried to defend for most of their games.

endacl

Local inter parish isn't the pinnacle, by the way. That'd be Croker in September.

On a less flippant note, your premise is flawed. It presumes that international soccerball is important. It's not. It's significant to those who are interested in it,, and there are a lot of those. But it's not 'important' as such. Who cares if we're not very good at it. We're great and standing up, taking our shoes off, changing wheels, and singing to nuns. Now, that's important.

valoren

mrsdewinter wrote: »

It's not the GAA that holds us back, it's the cult of pathological self-hatred.

We figuratively excel at beating ourselves.

FalconGirl

The GAA is a great and unique thing as it brings communities together and unites the country. We should be very proud of it. My O/H is from a country that has no such systems in place for youngsters and is awestruck by it.

endacl

valoren wrote: »

We literally figuratively excel at beating ourselves.

FYP.

La Bamba

Does anyone else get the impression sometimes that people who continuously slate gaelic sports would be the very ones to absolutely fawn over them if they were based in another country and not Irish?

Not an avid GAA man by any means but at the end of the day its providing a social outlet to hundreds of thousands of people and in some cases would be the only social outlet to some people in rural areas in particular. That to me far outweighs abandoning it altogether so we can reach a World Cup Semi Final in rugby instead of a quarter final or get an extra medal or 2 in the olympics.

Ted111

And did anyone even think to ask Gooche Cooper and Bubbles Dwyer to tog out for us in France?

If you don't ask you don't get.

cashback

ClovenHoof wrote: »

There are still numerous secondary schools around the country where the.principle is a "real GAA mam"

I don't know any schools with that principle...

Strumms

s4uv3 wrote: »

Nope.

The GAA trains, educates, and nurtures a huge amount of our young kids, giving them physical and emotional tools that will carry them well in adulthood.
It does not foster a culture of diving to the ground and rolling around screaming while holding a leg that nobody hit, and earning millions of euro a year for doing so.
GAA does so much more good than harm for sport in Ireland it's not even questionable tbh.

People who hate the GAA are usually just bitter over some grievance.

A touch of the old rose tinted glasses here no ? Because no simulation or over reacting ever happens on a GAA pitch ? No poor sportsmanship, serious foul play or sly violence ? The fact also that soccer players are paid millions ? So fückin what ? In in their contract and they earned it on that basis. To be honest that sounds like bitterness on your part.. Should we be giving out about high profile GAA players getting free holidays at the end of a campaign that they didn't pay for ? Getting the use of cars ? Being sorted out with nice cushy jobs because of their chosen sport and who they know ?

homerjay2005

mrsdewinter wrote: »

It's not the GAA that holds us back, it's the cult of pathological self-hatred.

population is a key factor also, we have the 127th biggest nation in the world.

but when you add in the GAA, Rugby, our proximity and obsession with the premier league plus being relatively ok at alot of other sports (boxing, golf, horse racing, athletics etc etc) then the pool or talent for soccer is being diminished.

we just dont have enough resources for top class soccer players in a sport that is global.

seamus

Yes, I suppose is the answer. That is, if you believe that there's some fundamental reason why being good at soccer is more important than being good at other sports.

Hint: There's not.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

5rtytry56

Strumms wrote: »

To be honest that sounds like bitterness on your part.. Should we be giving out about high profile GAA players getting free holidays at the end of a campaign that they didn't pay for ? Getting the use of cars ? Being sorted out with nice cushy jobs because of their chosen sport and who they know ?

suck it up OP. In their nice cushy jobs, they're also scripted to answer the phone where they work with '.......GAA AllStar'

lawlolawl

Look at it this way:

You are naturally talented sportsman 16 year old Connor O'Sportsball and you play (well) on a number of teams in a number of disciplines in your locality in a strong GAA county. The time has come for you to seriously commit to one sport because you think you can seriously make a go of it at the top level.

You can choose a professional international sport such as soccer, rugby, tennis, cricket or whatever and put yourself in competition, both on the field and on the open market, against people from all over the world, many of whom will be much better than you. Also, the people of your home nation probably won't give even half a **** about you unless you end up being a superstar of your chosen sport. You'll probably wind up in the LoI/lower UK divisions playing for peanuts in front of no one if you choose soccer.

You can instead choose to play GAA. You'll be hailed as a hero in your locality, you'll never pay for a pint in your life, you'll probably snag yourself a handy job that give you ample time off for training, you'll have your pick of local young wans, some car dealership will probably give you a free vehicle as promotion, 80,000 people will come to see you play in the all Ireland final etc, etc. The talent pool is considerably smaller. There's maybe 4 or 5 decent teams in any of the GAA discpline and you are playing for one of them, the rest are terrible and get utterly demolished in every match they play.

Basically, do you want to be a big fish in a small pond or take the very real risk of being nobody?

endacl

Perhaps Conor O'Sportsball has no interest in being a professional whicheverballist? Just likes playing his sport?

PARlance

No matter what they choose, Paddy O'Ballbag will make sure to keep an ample amount of bitterness for them.

endacl

PARlance wrote: »

No matter what they choose, Paddy O'Ballbag will make sure to keep an ample amount of bitterness for them.

Paddy o'Ballbag was good in his day, but not great. He was no Conor O'Sportsball.

NIMAN

I say put Conor O'sportsball up on a pedestal so we can knock him off.

K-9

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That's a bit like wondering why Kilkenny win All Irelands in hurling for fun while Dublin haven't won one in 60 years or so.

s4uv3

Strumms wrote: »

A touch of the old rose tinted glasses here no ? Because no simulation or over reacting ever happens on a GAA pitch ? No poor sportsmanship, serious foul play or sly violence ? The fact also that soccer players are paid millions ? So fückin what ? In in their contract and they earned it on that basis. To be honest that sounds like bitterness on your part.. Should we be giving out about high profile GAA players getting free holidays at the end of a campaign that they didn't pay for ? Getting the use of cars ? Being sorted out with nice cushy jobs because of their chosen sport and who they know ?

Ara will ya calm the jets, sure every sport has its flaws. My points still stand

Samaris

I would agree that soccer is not our main sport, not by half. At a guess (and I'm sure more knowledgeable people than I in the field of sports can argue all day about the rankings, so in no particular order!) there's hurling, Gaelic football, rugby, boxing and, oddly enough, cricket and golf, taking up quite a lot of the skilled potential player pool (boxing, cricket and golf probably less in terms of snaffling potential soccer players!).

Whether it matters is a totally different question! Ireland has a small population base (as already noted), other sports generally more important to them and just probably won't have the range of opponents in training that people living in bigger countries will to hone their skills.

I personally like the amateurism of GAA sports, by which I mean as opposed to highly paid professionals and all the politics that goes with it. Not to say that if I was a player I wouldn't like a few bob for all the time I would be putting into it, but hey.

PARlance

endacl wrote: »

Paddy o'Ballbag was good in his day, but not great. He was no Conor O'Sportsball.

You obviously don't remember the 1983 County Minor B final, 1-6 from play. It was only afterwards that he developed a taste for fast pints and loose women. Paddy had it all at one stage!

irishguitarlad

Samaris wrote: »

I would agree that soccer is not our main sport, not by half. At a guess (and I'm sure more knowledgeable people than I in the field of sports can argue all day about the rankings, so in no particular order!) there's hurling, Gaelic football, rugby, boxing and, oddly enough, cricket and golf, taking up quite a lot of the skilled potential player pool (boxing, cricket and golf probably less in terms of snaffling potential soccer players!).

Whether it matters is a totally different question! Ireland has a small population base (as already noted), other sports generally more important to them and just probably won't have the range of opponents in training that people living in bigger countries will to hone their skills.

I personally like the amateurism of GAA sports, by which I mean as opposed to highly paid professionals and all the politics that goes with it. Not to say that if I was a player I wouldn't like a few bob for all the time I would be putting into it, but hey.

And GAA has no politics?

Lt Dan

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Watching Portugal win last night, as well as the exploits of Wales, Norn Iron and Iceland should finally put to bed this myth of Ireland (this part) punching above our weight in international sports. From the olympics, to rugby to soccer we are not anything special.

Does the GAA creating a mindset that the local inter parish final being the pinnacle of human sporting achievement rob us of athletes could represent Ireland on the international stage by effectively ghettoising them at a very young age?

There are still numerous secondary schools around the country where the.principle is a "real GAA mam" and kids are basically unofficially banned from other codes. All the money, attention and favours go to the gaa kids. More importantly it creates a pathological "big fish, tiny pond" mentality.

The usual bash the GAA rubbish! Horrendously ill informed too

Irish Rugby has been successful for a good chunk of 20 years. Some would even suggest that our National team has under performed at World Cups. They do not seem too troubled by the GAA in getting lads to play AND, in getting big money people to sponsor teams.

Unlike the GAA and IRFU, and despite their main man's well known skills, the FAI could not organise a pee cup in a brewery. Roll back 2012, Monaghan United go out of business the same week John Delaney is seen getting hammered and throwing out free cans of beer to his fans. Athlone are in big financial difficulty and have major board issues, failed to field a team in one game, what does the FAI do, ? Fines them. 1966,FAI give up the chance to play an important home play off game for the World Cup ,all for a couple of quid. Oh, why Saipan happened?

How many associations are there? Leinster still have their own jurisdiction (don't know enough about the other provinces) We over rely on England and Scotland for our lads to develope. Too big to consider technical countries like Holland.

With the exception of Derry,Cork,Shamrock Rovers (not sure about Sligo now a days) and I think Galway, the crowds at league of Ireland games is poor. There would be more at a crappy league game of gaelic football. There is a reason why there are and were more Dublin league of Ireland clubs- without them there would be no league. Even in the junior and intermediate FAI leagues (obviously Cork are strong) Even LOI some teams outside the Pale train in Dublin because the core of their team are Dubliners. When those teams try to blood locals only, the fans whinge because the team is loosing badly

As for the coaching, with exceptions to Brian Kerr and his staff and Paul Doolin, football at school level (maybe outside of Cork and Dublin) was get rhe ball and hoof it

Soccer is more or less played in nearly every school yard (well maybe not now with the compensation culture) every big town has their own soccer leagues .soccer is often ran during the autumn/winter /spring period while GAA clubs run the risk of loosing some kids in the summer due to holidays

Hell even the boxers have had more organisational ability in the last decade and one of their main men went to the US because he felt that he was not valued enough. Look at the peanuts those coaches make. FAI heads make more than the British PM!

Soccer heads, get yer house in order,for once

Strumms

Having I been involved in both soccer and Gaelic football from a young age.. There is far more politics involved in GAA than in soccer. I will always love hurling and football but I never liked the parochial inward looking view of the GAA and 'GAA people'. I found the atmosphere of soccer clubs more inclusive and open and fun. With the GAA you have to follow the script and it's almost like the Catholic Church in terms of brainwashing you to follow their ideals and dedicate all your time to them.

lawlolawl

Lt Dan wrote: »

Irish Rugby has been successful for a good chunk of 20 years. Some would even suggest that our National team has under performed at World Cups. They do not seem too troubled by the GAA in getting lads to play AND, in getting big money people to sponsor teams.

To be fair, the amount of nations playing rugby is fairly small as well.

Bracken81

Ah the GAA......a place for people, who were no use at Football, Rugby, Boxing, etc..........before finding their home on the GAA field!

Galwayguy35

Bracken81 wrote: »

Ah the GAA......a place for people, who were no use at Football, Rugby, Boxing, etc..........before finding their home on the GAA field!

I assume you're joking.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

seamus

Jaysus, a lot of GAA hate in here. Obviously people who are still a little bitter about not getting picked for the A panel in primary school.

endacl

PARlance wrote: »

You obviously don't remember the 1983 County Minor B final, 1-6 from play. It was only afterwards that he developed a taste for fast pints and loose women. Paddy had it all at one stage!

He stopped going to mass around the same time. All the talent in the world is no good to you if you haven't the work ethic.

I'm hearing great things about his cousin, Woolyback McSliotar-Puck?

Lt Dan

beach_walker wrote: »

Totally agree OP. Just look at the US and American football, or Oz and AFL. Imagine how successful those countries could be internationally if they abandoned their own games.

How many lads under 6 foot make it in NFL or to a lesser extent AFL?

Says a lot when Commonwealth nation like Australia or India does not embrace football like the Home Nations does

OldRio

I find it shocking that children from a young age are doing physical exercise. Running about and getting fit. Learning about working as a team. Learning to win and lose. Understanding the need for fitness and discipline.

Tis all wrong.

They should be at home, on their own in front of a TV screen playing videos game.
The GAA is not perfect but lots of children learn a lot from it.

joey100

A lot of the team sports take away from other sports. Funding in Ireland, especially at youth levels is about numbers. The more people signed up for your club the more you will get. There might be a lad who plays for the local soccer team, no control or able to read the game but the fastest by a long shot over 40/50m. Rather than send him onto an Athletics club where he might really excel the soccer team hold onto him and never really play him. Young people then turn away from sport in their teens if they don't feel like it's going anywhere when a lot of time they may have been better suited for another sport. I've seen this happen across a lot of sports, lads playing GAA better suited for rugby, lads playing rugby better suited for long distance running. Unfortunately most youth sport isn't about helping the young person develop into the best athlete they can be even if it means them leaving the club, rather it's about getting in the numbers to boost the clubs funding.

Lt Dan

Bracken81 wrote: »

Ah the GAA......a place for people, who were no use at Football, Rugby, Boxing, etc..........before finding their home on the GAA field!

Yeah, Kevin Moran would agree with you there

Shane Long, Matthew Macklin ,Nial Quinn would agree with you surely

OldRio

Lt Dan wrote: »

Yeah, Kevin Moran would agree with you there

Shane Long, Matthew Macklin ,Nial Quinn would agree with you surely

Don't forget Tommy Bowe, Tomas OLeary, Mick Galway and Shane Horgan

lawlolawl

joey100 wrote: »

A lot of the team sports take away from other sports. Funding in Ireland, especially at youth levels is about numbers. The more people signed up for your club the more you will get. There might be a lad who plays for the local soccer team, no control or able to read the game but the fastest by a long shot over 40/50m. Rather than send him onto an Athletics club where he might really excel the soccer team hold onto him and never really play him. Young people then turn away from sport in their teens if they don't feel like it's going anywhere when a lot of time they may have been better suited for another sport. I've seen this happen across a lot of sports, lads playing GAA better suited for rugby, lads playing rugby better suited for long distance running. Unfortunately most youth sport isn't about helping the young person develop into the best athlete they can be even if it means them leaving the club, rather it's about getting in the numbers to boost the clubs funding.

Indeed. Look at Conor Mc Gregor.

Arguably one of the most internationally recognizable and successful Irish athletes alive and he got there by himself with no state funding or support.

Lt Dan

Strumms wrote: »

Having I been involved in both soccer and Gaelic football from a young age.. There is far more politics involved in GAA than in soccer. I will always love hurling and football but I never liked the parochial inward looking view of the GAA and 'GAA people'. I found the atmosphere of soccer clubs more inclusive and open and fun. With the GAA you have to follow the script and it's almost like the Catholic Church in terms of brainwashing you to follow their ideals and dedicate all your time to them.

Begrudgingly that is true. I would include rugby for being more open (to my surprise) as well . You get picked based on your ability not on who you are related to or whether the county board has a problem with certain clubs . Mickey Harte mentioned a few good stories about team selections when he took over the senior team in his first book

Hell even the junior rugby teams look after their players at tournament with food and beer (and hot water for the showers)

I have heard some horrors stories from lads who went county underage superstars who were the first lads at any level to represent their club (for the county team) who get injured and not looked after (refusal to pay or help with medical fees if the lad is unable to play for club in the future)

Moreover, transfers to other clubs ,even to a club to another county can be a nightmare


But, I won't bash gaelic ,my true love

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I wonder if Australians are currently cringing at the AFL's dilution of the talent pool or if Japanese people are bemoaning Sumo's damage to the more global form of wrestling.

Lt Dan

homerjay2005 wrote: »

population is a key factor also, we have the 127th biggest nation in the world.

but when you add in the GAA, Rugby, our proximity and obsession with the premier league plus being relatively ok at alot of other sports (boxing, golf, horse racing, athletics etc etc) then the pool or talent for soccer is being diminished.

we just dont have enough resources for top class soccer players in a sport that is global.

I think the horse racing industry whether jockey,trainer,breeders and owners do more than relatively okay even away from Ireland and UK

Lt Dan

lawlolawl wrote: »

To be fair, the amount of nations playing rugby is fairly small as well.

England has a massive population. Rugby is religion in Wales and New Zealand.South Africa and Austrlaia are not too shaby either lol. The Argies are the biggest improvers.

Look at Irelands record before 1995 . Not tje greatest is it despite the triple crowns and Lions representation.

To actually have the IRFU have the ability to fund and keep professional players in Ireland and attract a few world clasd guys to Munster and Leinster (World Cup winners !) is no mean feat

Lt Dan

OldRio wrote: »

Don't forget Tommy Bowe, Tomas OLeary, Mick Galway and Shane Horgan

How could one forget Shaggy's try against England ,straight off the GAA grounds of Meath

Even Robbie Hensaw played a bit for Athlone GAA (and was talented soccer defender)

Keith Wood played a bit of hurling and wasn't bad woth kicking

pgj2015

Originally Posted by Bracken81 View Post
Ah the GAA......a place for people, who were no use at Football, Rugby, Boxing, etc..........before finding their home on the GAA field!
Yeah, Kevin Moran would agree with you there

Shane Long, Matthew Macklin ,Nial Quinn would agree with you surely


seamus coleman is another one, shay given as well i think.

gctest50

Lt Dan wrote: »

How many lads under 6 foot make it in NFL or to a lesser extent AFL?

this guy might be heading there :

dirtyden

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Watching Portugal win last night, as well as the exploits of Wales, Norn Iron and Iceland should finally put to bed this myth of Ireland (this part) punching above our weight in international sports. From the olympics, to rugby to soccer we are not anything special.

Does the GAA creating a mindset that the local inter parish final being the pinnacle of human sporting achievement rob us of athletes who could represent Ireland on the international stage by effectively ghettoising them at a very young age?

There are still numerous secondary schools around the country where the.principle is a "real GAA mam" and kids are basically unofficially banned from other codes. All the money, attention and favours go to the gaa kids. More importantly it creates a pathological "big fish, tiny pond" mentality.

The only reason Ronaldo played football is because he was never any good to hurl.