Family treating niece poorly, how can we help?

LegacyUser

Ok here's the back story of the problem we're facing. It might be a bit long but I’m really upset about the whole thing and could really use some advice.

My husbands brother has been with his partner for about 10 years or so, she had a child from a previous relationship and initially my brother in law treated her as his own as she was still quite young when he came onto the scene.

My mother in law always pretended to like the child and my brother in laws partner, but when they weren't around it was obvious she thought the partner wasn't good enough for her son and that she downright thought less of the child because she isn't biologically her sons.

A couple of years pass and they have their own biological child together. This is when thing's started to get worse. The new child is wonderful, an angel, can do no wrong. The older child is badly behaved, a pain, a nightmare to be around.

My MIL continued to treat the older child badly, displaying contempt for her at every opportunity. Scolding her for virtually nothing, whilst at the same time singing the praises of the younger child. We've witnessed this behaviour first hand.

In the last couple of years, they've done their best to have the older child diagnosed with various disorders like autism and Aspergers. Whenever we have spent time with her, either alone or with family she has been nothing but pleasant and well behaved but obviously we don't see what goes on at home and wouldn't question a professionals opinion.

It's now gotten to the point where the older child, who is now about 13 is experiencing some serious mental health issues, she self harms and (from the ‘reports’ we receive from the MIL) is acting out and being generally badly behaved.
We can’t help but feel that this child has been let down by her parents and our MIL. I’ve never heard either our MIL or the father say anything positive about her, it’s all negative and outright mean.

The MIL’s attempt at dealing with the self harm issue was to tell her that if she didn’t stop then she wouldn’t get to see her anymore, she wouldn’t get to go on the family holiday and that they’d have to send her to a home.

They idolise the younger child and constantly put down the older.
I suffered with self harm issues myself when I was younger so this really hits home with me. We are also feeling compelled to somehow help as they latest we’ve been told is that the mother of the child is thinking of contacting her estranged mother in the hopes of sending the older child to live with her because they don’t want her being a bad influence on younger child.

I could go on with stories of how they treat her. But I’ll just summarise it by saying they both subtly and sometimes blatantly treat her like a second class member of the family, the MIL honestly thinks of her as a piece of crap she scraped off her shoe and it all comes down to the fact that she’s not blood family.

What, if anything can we do to try and help this child? Obviously we don’t know the extent of what the parents have to deal with, but I sure as hell know my MIL has negatively affected this child’s well being through her verbal nastiness and the parents do little to stop it.

Dravokivich

if you have the support of your husband, call out the MIL on how badly she is treating this girl.

I'd also suggest that the girl shouldn't be there, not due to the output of her issues, but enforce the point that the girl shouldn't be there if she is going to be consistently treated the way she is.

It is quite unfair. She needs support and that ain't going to come from scolding her.

I could imagine that this MIL may be just critical of you when you aren't around.

She doesn't care a jot.

LegacyUser

How awful for the child that people have stood round for 10 years and let the child be a used like this.

What does the child's mother say? She's incredibly negligent to let her child be treated like this.

batmanrobin

[In the last couple of years, they've done their best to have the older child diagnosed with various disorders like autism and Aspergers. Whenever we have spent time with her, either alone or with family she has been nothing but pleasant and well behaved but obviously we don't see what goes on at home and wouldn't question a professionals opinion.]

Be careful about the whole not questioning a professional's opinion. They can be wrong.

I'd wager all these issues this child is having is a direct result of her being very much aware of how unwanted she is by the MIL. To make it worse, she now has the "perfect" younger sibling who can do no wrong.

Children see and heard far more than we give them credit for. They are very much aware of what is going on in their surroundings.

I know a lot of my rage and acting out as a child came from being told I was bad by other adults in my environment. It was something that affected me for a very long time. But my actions were as a result of their behaviour towards me.

Children struggle to deal with feeling unwanted a lot more than adults who can just say feck it and move on.

Speak to the parents about it. Try and get them to speak to the MIL. But this can't continue unchecked.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

That is awful, that poor child. That imposed 'black sheep' role can really stick with people, even when it's less extreme than this.

She's going through puberty and adolescence now, her reactions to the sort of treatment she's getting are going to get more pronounced. Not to scaremonger but if this continues things like substance abuse, absconding from school and so on are going to get to be real possibilities, real fast. And of course then it'll all be the poor wee girl's fault :rolleyes:

Would some sort of family counselling be an option? Maybe even with you and your partner present to give your take on things? It's understandable that you wouldn't want to get into conflict with your MIL and the rest of the family but what's happening is wrong and somebody needs to stand up for this child. Boundaries have been breached already by treating her like this, I wouldn't worry about breaching a few more. I can't believe her own mother's behaviour in this, it's like this one was a practice child and now she's got her 'real' one, I'm raging reading this, I can't imagine how hard it is to actually watch, let alone for the child herself.

The other thing is, would it be possible for her to spend more time with you and your partner? Like a LOT more time?

groovyg

OP that's heartbreaking to read. Did the mother of the child not notice that your MIL or your BIL were treating her daughter differently ? The poor kid is only 13 and is self harming. It sounds like her own mother has let her down too. What a terrible situation to be in. I dunno whether she might be better off going to live with the estranged grandmother as the situation at home sounds awful. The kid needs some love and if she is constantly being put down and given out to no wonder she's at rock bottom. Could they arrange counselling for her. Have you or your husband spoken to the brother in law and his partner about her?

Its a pretty big deal for any kid to suddenly be upstaged by a new member to the family but to have everyone then treat her like the black sheep hasn't helped the situation.

LegacyUser

Talking to the parents wouldn't be something we're very keen on. The brother in law is not a particularly approachable person. He's been aggressive with my husband before and I don't think he'd take the implied criticism well.

This also stand for the MIL, her contempt for non blood relations runs deep. She has another son, in a different country, who has a biological child with his wife but the wife also has 2 teenagers from another man. She shows the same disdain for these 2 children as she does the for our niece. Obviously this biological grand child is also an angel that can do no wrong.

We also currently live with the MIL and I would be wary of causing a conflict while we are under the same roof.

The only thing we've managed to come up with is that in the next 6-8 weeks we should be moving into our own place. We've bought the house but are just waiting for contracts.
It's a big enough house that we have already agreed to offer to have our niece come and stay with us for a weekend to try and get her out of the negative environment.

I'm not sure if the parents will be open to this or not but we are definitely going to offer.

Except for my husband, none of his family know about my history of self harm. I don't really want to share it with them either, but it could be a useful tool in getting them to at least let me spend some time with her. I dealt with similar issues of not feeling good enough for a parent, so I know at least some of how she's feeling and I know their reactions are only going to make things worse.

I too think that if things carry on, we will see more pronounced negative behaviour form my niece. We've already been told that is downloading pornography. This isn't an outright bad sign as such, as teenagers hitting puberty will obviously be curious, but to an already fragile state of mind I'm not sure it's a healthy thing.

uck51js9zml2yt

Familyproblem wrote: »

Talking to the parents wouldn't be something we're very keen on. The brother in law is not a particularly approachable person. He's been aggressive with my husband before and I don't think he'd take the implied criticism well.

This also stand for the MIL, her contempt for non blood relations runs deep. She has another son, in a different country, who has a biological child with his wife but the wife also has 2 teenagers from another man. She shows the same disdain for these 2 children as she does the for our niece. Obviously this biological grand child is also an angel that can do no wrong.

We also currently live with the MIL and I would be wary of causing a conflict while we are under the same roof.

The only thing we've managed to come up with is that in the next 6-8 weeks we should be moving into our own place. We've bought the house but are just waiting for contracts.
It's a big enough house that we have already agreed to offer to have our niece come and stay with us for a weekend to try and get her out of the negative environment.

I'm not sure if the parents will be open to this or not but we are definitely going to offer.

Except for my husband, none of his family know about my history of self harm. I don't really want to share it with them either, but it could be a useful tool in getting them to at least let me spend some time with her. I dealt with similar issues of not feeling good enough for a parent, so I know at least some of how she's feeling and I know their reactions are only going to make things worse.

I too think that if things carry on, we will see more pronounced negative behaviour form my niece. We've already been told that is downloading pornography. This isn't an outright bad sign as such, as teenagers hitting puberty will obviously be curious, but to an already fragile state of mind I'm not sure it's a healthy thing.

Whats more important? ..the child or you upsetting your MIL?

The girl has grown up being unwanted and unloved by those who should be supporting her and on whom she should be able to rely for protection.
Its not surprising she's reacting the way she is. Its nothing to do wit aspergers or autism....its all to do with being unloved and unwanted.
Try living with rejection all your life!

That shes a pleasure to be around when you have her says it all....someone is showing her some attention an isnt trying to belittle her at every turn.
You need to start with her parents in dealing with this....and then your MIL.

You probably find that as how she is treated improves and she's protected that a lot of the problems disappear including the self harm.

Fakediamond

Hiya, I have had a similar situation in my extended family. I don't think you will make any inroads with BIL or MIL, but if you could give some support to niece, that will mean so much to her.

In order not to offend anyone or cause you to be frozen out completely, could I suggest that you frame your offer of help in terms of "giving them a break" by taking her for weekends etc. Preferably, she wouldn't know that, otherwise it reinforces her status as the "problem child". Another poster suggested family therapy, it would be brilliant if that could happen, but it probably won't, why would it? They already know who causes all the problems in their family - they have a convenient scapegoat for all their ills.

Be prepared for ongoing issues, the poor kid must be feeling tormented inside and probably blaming herself for everything. Could you discreetly suggest to her that she could phone Childline (or another suitable teen helpline) if she is feeling overwhelmed?

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the replies.

I believe she has attended some counselling on her own, but I think she stopped going, or went but didn't want to talk.

One of the other problems I have with bringing this up with the parents is that I don't think we're really supposed to know about most of this stuff. The MIL repeats it all back to us like it's gossip, but it's often been prefaced with "They don't want anyone to know this but..."

I think the only one I feel I could approach would be the child's mother. She'd be least likely to fly off the handle I think. My BIL is honestly an oaf. He has his mother wrapped around his finger and in return she think's he's the bees knees. She once commented to me that his wife had "really landed on her feet with my son", now I know all mothers probably think the same, but to go around actually saying it! Any comment I make to them is going to be seen as an attack.

They are on holiday at the moment (which our niece was pre-warned not to ruin for everyone else!) but I think when they get back I might try and initiate a conversation with her mother and perhaps see about us taking her out for the day or something.

We have to tread carefully, if we go straight in there suggesting its their fault she's behaving this way, they are the type of people that would just block us out. It's better for the child if we can keep in the good books so to speak, so we can get her away from them as often as we can.

Givepuzzles

Op ye are being way too passive here. This is a child's life at stake here. Self harming st 13, what's next especially with no support at home. Have you spoken to the child's mother?

I would be contacting the state agencies to visit the family

Sapphire

I suspect the best way you can help is in subtle ways. Get your new place and have her over to stay often. Frame it so that she is none the wiser but that her parents /MIL think you are helping out giving them a break.

It seems to me that you are in a tricky spot - if there are any conversations about the way she is treated this needs to come from your partner and not you as you are the inlaw, and will forever be judged for sticking your beak in. But I agree with FakeDiamond that even if you did try to reasonably discuss it with them, it suits their narrative to have this little child as a scapegoat. Equally you need to be cautious about counselling her, especially when being seen to criticise or go against what her parents/grandparents tell her -her unwittingly carrying that back to them as she is so young. Use diplomacy and tact, and find ways to boost her confidence in herself that does not involve keeping secrets from parents etc.

To this end too, I wouldn't expand on any chats about a closeness developing with the niece in your house because then sleepovers become something to hold over her head or remove on a whim as a punishment for whatever thing they deem to blame her for. If you are asked how it went just a "ah, we had dinner and watched a movie, ya know yourself" is enough. It's a fine line. It's worth getting a few parenting books that deal with scapegoat/ golden child dynamics, though I'm not sure what ones might suit best.

ChampagnePop

I had a hard time growing up and I remember really appreciating weekends away with my god parents, just doing normal things in a healthy environment, if you can have her over from time to time I think that would be one great positive step.
I hope you can confront your MIL one day, she's sounds very toxic.

Ignatius in bloom

Try and spend as much time with this kid as possible as she desperately needs some love and a good role model which you seem to be.

They all sound like god awful people who should not be let near children. I would try and get that girl into something creative like writing classes or drama classes usually loads organised around local areas for free and it's a good way to channel those negative thoughts out into an environment like that plus creative people in those classes I have found are really nice and open and full of giving each other some moral boosting which this girl sounds like she needs a lot of of.

As for the family I personally would call them out on their horrific behaviour and threaten them with consequences and if they never spoke to me again!? So what! Not the type of people I would miss in my life.

Big Bag of Chips

There's really very little you can do about your in-laws, unfortunately. But you can, as you seem to already be planning, be an ally for the child. Sit her in your corner when they visit. Talk to her about stuff. Anything and nothing. If you can keep her occupied and entertained (and out of their way) then they can't have much to say to her. Maybe even bring her off in the car "to the shop" when they call, and sneak off for a quick McDonald's or something!

If she has even one person in the family who treats her well it will make a huge difference to her. My husband works with "problem children" and he says that the one thing they are told on courses is all a child needs is one good adult in their lives. One good adult can make all the difference to a child. To their confidence, to their opinion of themselves and to their overall well being.

You cannot really control how others treat her. But you can be that one good adult in her life.

Noo

I have a memory from my teenage years that stuck with me. I was never in your nieces situation or had my family reject me but i imagine something this simple would have meant the world if i had been.

I have an uncle living overseas, he married into my family and is just an all round cool guy, very likeable, he has a great career as a doctor and is very well respected by my parents and family. When i was visiting as a teenager he told my parents in front of me that he has loads of nieces and nephews of all ages but the best years are the teenagers, that he finds them fascinating, their view of the world, what they know, how they can surprise you etc.

I was a smart enough kid so he talked to me about some sciencey stuff (just things i already knew from school, DNA and the likes). My dad was amazed, he'd no idea I'd be able to have a conversation like that with my uncle, basically proving my uncles point about teenagers. Instead of asking my parents stuff about me he would always ask me directly and always seemed more genuinely interested in the point of view of the one teenager in a room full of adults. One of the most respected members of my family found me the most interesting in my family and by god did it make me feel like a million bucks!

Have you noticed any talents your niece has that has gone unnoticed by her parents? Highlight these and as others have said be that good adult in her life. While it wont guarantee the other adults will start relishing in her good qualities, it will do her the world of good. And she'll always rememeber you for it.

Samaris

What an awful situation for your niece, poor kid.

Mostly, I don't have much to add, beyond agreeing with what's been said so far. The one thing I'm iffy about is calling out the family and risking their not speaking to you again - for the sake of the child. As an aunt, you would be very easy to cut out from -her- life too if they feel you're a bad influence, or someone to be ignored. It'd be very tempting to let it rip and it would entirely serve the parents/MIL right, but for the sake of taking strips off them, as deserved as it is, you could lose any chance to be that decent adult in her life. She needs that more than a defender she'll never hear about who's removed from her.

The other thing is ...and this is difficult. I don't know what the best advice is, so just take this as something to bear in mind. I think the other posters are correct about how to approach the parents, frame it as giving them a break, but be aware that this could be used spitefully against the kid. "Oh, you think Aunt Familyproblem wants a brat like you around? She's only doing it because we need a break from your attitude, ask her if I'm right" sort of thing. Or if she or the younger sibling overhears the off-hand request. At the same time, telling her what you're actually doing and reinforcing that you do want her around will confirm everything she already feels about her family - that they don't love her. It's a difficult one, and it hardly needs to be solved right away, just something to bear in mind for the future as if it does come to a head, it could get very messy and upsetting.

Best of luck, I hope you can help the poor girl; it sounds like she's had a very rough time of it.

LegacyUser

Hi everyone, op here.

Well we found something that we thought would be a fun day out for us and our niece. It's also over 7's only which gives us a good excuse not to bring the younger child.

We made contact with the parents to see if our niece would like to go but we've not heard back from them yet. Fingers crossed. Although I'm starting to worry that with her worsening behaviour that might think it's a bad idea for us to take her for the day on our own.

Realised something else after we made the offer to them. The MIL has a habit of inviting herself to virtually everything we do, we can be heading out the door someone on our own and she'll say "Where are you going, I'll come" so now I'm worried that if we do get to take our niece to this event, she'll invite herself along and ruin the whole plan!

Sapphire

Plan it to coincide with a time when MIL is busy/ has an appointment maybe?

Taltos

What am I missing here?
Why can you just not say "No that's alright, no need for you to come" and just head off.

As someone else called out this screams that you are being too passive but more importantly so is everyone else. I don't get why your OH and their brother (the step father) haven't had a chat with their mum to set her to rights. I just don't get it. This kid stands little chance later in life all because right now the people who are meant to be there for her are badly and consistently letting her down and making her feel like a second class citizen. She may not have had an emotional or psychological problem to begin with but she sure as hell will shortly if she hasn't already. And now self-harming - that screams "help me now", it's the one little bit of control she has. Am really shocked and angry with this thread.

uck51js9zml2yt

Just tell her No.

loveisdivine

OP here, I got fed up waiting for my anonymous posts to be approved so I'm just gonna use my regular account. The people relevant to this situation wouldn't know me online and there's already fairly specific info here anyway.

To answer some questions, this event is only taking place on one weekend so can't make it coincide with something MIL is already doing.

The father doesn't say anything to the mother because he is just as bad. In a less obvious way mind you. Here's an example. One time we were at their house and our niece was reading jokes to us from a joke book, we were having fun but the parents kept telling her "enough, you're getting too worked up, calm down" whilst at the same time the younger child was being extremely loud and boisterous and generally annoying, in the same room, yet nothing was said to her.

My MIL is an extremely manipulative person.She can be quite obtrusive and if she doesn't get her way she will throw tantrums. She'll cry and use emotional blackmail to get her way. Things like saying "You'd do it for her family" meaning my family. Who incidentally live in another country so we don't do anything for them! She'll say absolutely anything if she thinks it will help get her way. My husband finds it easier to just cave, than call her out. It's frustrating but I feel for him too, it's hard to stand up to parents.

If she invites herself and we say "No it's alright, you don't need to come" it will be met with either her insisting she wants to go, or she'll question why we don't want her to go. It's not like she says "Oh, can I come?" thus giving you a chance to say no, she simply says "I'll come with you". It's not as simple as just saying no. For instance, if we decided on a whim to go out for dinner one night, she'd either invite herself or get annoyed with us that she'd have to cook for herself. Then complain that "it's ok for me to come when I'm paying but you won't take me out" Basically what I'm trying to say is virtually everything is met with criticism, sarcasm or manipulation to get what she wants.

I actually made a thread about her behaviour towards us before, but was mostly told that we should just put up with it and be grateful that we're allowed to stay with her.

Still no reply from the parents.

Big Bag of Chips

Why are you living with her? It's probably to save money, but how much is your own sanity worth? Seriously, if you decide to go out for a meal with your husband, presumably to get so time alone away from the house, she'll invite herself along?

You cannot put a monetary value on your sanity, and your relationship. To be honest, it all seems a bit close. You're all in each other's faces and you all know far too much about each other's business, and the poor child is getting lost in the middle of it all. I don't care where I had to live or how much longer I had to save, I'd work extra if I had to to earn extra just to not be under that roof.

And if you lived somewhere else the girl could visit you undisturbed.

It all sounds toxic and too high pressure. I couldn't live with my in-laws, and they're fairly alright. I don't think I could live with my own parents for too long and I love them!!!

loveisdivine

Our old landlord decided to sell so we are staying here while we buy our own place. We should be signing contracts on the new house in a week or two and hope to be moved in by the end of August, so thankfully not long to go.

I should probably say that my MIL isn't all negative and nasty, obviously this is only my side of things. But yes she'll invite herself along. We've often said that it's like she doesn't see us as a family of our own because we don't have kids. If there's family event's we always end up going together as 3, she arrives with us and leaves with us, usually because we have to give her lifts, when we weren't living with her that is. I've often complained to my husband that we always seem to come as a threesome!

Anyway, I'm getting off topic. We are hoping that once we move we can invite the niece over for weekends maybe, but it really all depends on how receptive the parents are to us getting involved. We've never had a particularly close relationship with them because we are very different types of people with little in common, so they're probably gonna find it odd at first that we're suddenly trying to strike up a better relationship with one of their kids.

It is incredibly high pressure, but thankfully there shouldn't be much more than a month left. Then we'll be gone and we're gonna be a good distance away from all of them.

Big Bag of Chips

Have your own babies quick then you can use the excuse of having the niece over to help or babysit

loveisdivine

Oh no thanks! We don't want children. We're happy being the weird aunt and uncle that live out in the country

pookie82

OP if the MIL comes in with "oh I'll go with ye!", smile and say, warmly but firmly, "no nans allowed!! Today is about X [your niece]" and breeze out the door.

Don't at any stage respond to snipey remarks, just walk. Your niece needs your time more than your MIL needs to be placated.

loveisdivine

Good news! We got the go ahead to take her on the day out In typical fashion the approval was relayed back to us through MIL instead of just texting us back! And as predicted MIL instantly said she would come and she could bring the younger niece to watch.
In fairness to my husband he said no straight away and said it's just going to be the 3 of us. She continued to insist but he just kept saying no. I know for a fact she will keep bringing it up until the day comes around but if we just keep saying no then she'll have to get the message.

Turns out both children will be spending a night at the house this weekend so that will give us another opportunity to play buffer between niece and MIL. We're thinking of suggesting she watch a film with us for the evening.

Big Bag of Chips

Bring her out! Go to the cinema. Pick a film that's too old or late for the other child to go. If you have to frame it that you and hubby are going and just a 'by the way' ask the niece along. Spin it to granny that she can spend some quality time with the other niece in peace.

loveisdivine

God she already won't let it drop "But why are you bringing older niece and not younger niece?" "Buy why can't I come and watch, they allow people to watch don't they?"

I know going forward that every time we try and do something with older niece, we're going to get questioned on why we're not doing anything with wonderful perfect younger niece. How about because she's a spoilt loud brat!

Instead of just thinking "Oh, that will be nice for older niece" all they are concerned about is younger niece and poor her not getting to go.

Big Bag of Chips

You can't change her attitude or the way she goes about things. But you can stand firm, and 'innocently' bring the older girl out. She can go on about it all she likes. But it doesn't mean that you have to give in. Just go on like you're oblivious to the fact that she's fishing for an invite! And always with a smile

Sapphire

loveisdivine wrote: »

God she already won't let it drop "But why are you bringing older niece and not younger niece?" "Buy why can't I come and watch, they allow people to watch don't they?"

I know going forward that every time we try and do something with older niece, we're going to get questioned on why we're not doing anything with wonderful perfect younger niece. How about because she's a spoilt loud brat!

Instead of just thinking "Oh, that will be nice for older niece" all they are concerned about is younger niece and poor her not getting to go.

How young is the other one? Could you feign that you would be dubious that you could confidently look after such a young kid, or that you can only manage one at a time, what with not being parents yourselves and all...:p

Or I'd be tempted to just call her out on it "Ma, you are always moaning that Niece is underfoot and you get no time with Younger Niece and now we are giving you the chance to get a break from it, you wont take it!" But it might not work with her - not if she's so obtuse that she tags along like a Human Contraceptive on date night with ye.

fineso.mom

Too late this time but if you get another chance to take your niece out maybe you could engineer it that there is no room in the car? Say you have to give friends a lift on your way or something like that . Something she can't argue with.

twill

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

You can't change her attitude or the way she goes about things. But you can stand firm, and 'innocently' bring the older girl out. She can go on about it all she likes. But it doesn't mean that you have to give in. Just go on like you're oblivious to the fact that she's fishing for an invite! And always with a smile

I agree with this 100%. No attempts to reason with her, as narcissists do not view reality as most people do.

Yes, I know that's an internet diagnosis, but her way of controlling some members of her family, spoiling some and demonising others is disordered behaviour.

Taltos

Just be ready for them to guilt you into bringing the younger neice by innocently having her there when you pick up the older girl. So have your reasons ready and be prepared for tears and a tantrum of "you don't love me or similar" - maybe even from the gran.

loveisdivine

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if the MIL already said on the phone to the parents that she would bring the younger niece to watch and that's why she keeps pushing it with us.

She has a tendency to do things like that. She'll tell someone else that myself or my husband will do something before she's even asked us. Putting everyone in an awkward situation to help get what she wants.

LegacyUser

I think not having room in the car might be a good idea! Is there a friend the older girl could bring with her to fill up the car? Or you could just outright lie and say you are collecting your friend and her daughter on the way!

DO NOT GIVE IN!! If the parents say anything about the younger girl going, so no you had told the mother that it wasn't suitable for her age group. And you've arranged to give a friend a l