Looking for advice on purchasing strategy

Tom Dunne

Just looking for advice on how I should handle a car purchase.

I'm a returning emigrant, so I have no trade-in. I'm also a cash buyer, so no banks/finance needed. I will most likely buy new.

I don't want to let the dealer know I am returning from the Middle East, as I am sure they will jump to the (incorrect) assumption that I have plenty of cash to throw around.

Just wondering on the whole finance thing - are car salesman on commission for getting customers to sign up for finance? As in, does it put me in a weaker position because I won't be signing up for finance?

Any ideas on what kind of discount to expect on a car? If the list price, say, for a Hyundai Tuscon is 25,475, what should my target be to haggle the salesman down? I also believe these are flying off the salesroom floor, so the salesman may not be as willing to haggle.

Any tips for me when I go into a garage to start the negotiations?

biko

Go in to a couple places and look at cars.
Ask about payment options and then ask "if I buy it outright, will you drop price to XXX?" A quick and hassle free sale may make them cut a bit off.
It really depends on the dealer and car.
On that Tuscon you might get a couple grand off, or not.

If car is brand new you can try the old "I saw this over at Jordan's for 2k less, but I like this colour.. Will you match his price?"

Shop around a lot, this is your chance to get exactly what you want.

bazz26

Just a note. List price will not include delivery related charges, dealer preparation or metallic paint which can add another 1k/1.5k to the list price. The "on the road" price is what you should be looking at.

Also the Tucson is currently one of the best selling cars in the country so don't be surprised if dealers play hardball on the discount. They have no problem selling them so under less pressure to discount them aggressively. Have a look at it's sister car the Kia Sportage, not selling in the same numbers as the Tucson so there might be more scope for discount. Play dealers off each other too for their best price.

ironclaw

Personally I think you'd be insane to buy a new car outright for cash. Your depreciate loss will be astronomical in the first three years. You'll likely get a better spec car at a huge discount if you go back a year or two.

If you must buy new, I'd lodge the cash you would be spending at the highest rate you can and use the interest to pay towards the PCP. Won't completely cover your loss but your exposure to depreciation is hugely reduced. You can also haggle for included warranties and higher mileage allowances, whilst also maintaining the right to flog the car back to them in 2 / 3 years if you move out again. If you buy cash, you may as well burn a third of it in the car park outside.

Tom Dunne

biko wrote: »

Shop around a lot, this is your chance to get exactly what you want.

That's what I have resigned myself to having to do.

bazz26 wrote: »

Also the Tucson is currently one of the best selling cars in the country so don't be surprised if dealers play hardball on the discount. They have no problem selling them so under less pressure to discount them aggressively. Have a look at it's sister car the Kia Sportage, not selling in the same numbers as the Tucson so there might be more scope for discount. Play dealers off each other too for their best price.

Yeah, that's what I am afraid of. I will probably look at the Sportage so.

ironclaw wrote: »

Personally I think you'd be insane to buy a new car outright for cash. Your depreciate loss will be astronomical in the first three years. You'll likely get a better spec car at a huge discount if you go back a year or two.

If you must buy new, I'd lodge the cash you would be spending at the highest rate you can and use the interest to pay towards the PCP. Won't completely cover your loss but your exposure to depreciation is hugely reduced. You can also haggle for included warranties and higher mileage allowances, whilst also maintaining the right to flog the car back to them in 2 / 3 years if you move out again. If you buy cash, you may as well burn a third of it in the car park outside.

I appreciate the honesty, but this is a debate I have had many times over with various people in the know, such as yourself.

As somebody who simply wants a car that gets him from A to B, with no hassle, I personally can justify the cost of a new car. I will most likely hold onto the car for 5 years, so if you take the long term view, I see it as the price of motoring over that timeframe.

Atlantic Dawn

Tell them you have finance already approved and want the best straight price, visit each dealer rather than over the phone negotiation, take the car for a test drive and know the spec and list price of it before you go to negotiate.

colm_mcm

And above all, drive everything so you buy the best car for you rather than the one with the biggest discount.

grogi

ironclaw wrote: »

Personally I think you'd be insane to buy a new car outright for cash. Your depreciate loss will be astronomical in the first three years. You'll likely get a better spec car at a huge discount if you go back a year or two.

If you buy cash, you may as well burn a third of it in the car park outside.

A car bought through finance depreciates less than one bought with cash... Interesting...

ironclaw wrote: »

If you must buy new, I'd lodge the cash you would be spending at the highest rate you can and use the interest to pay towards the PCP. Won't completely cover your loss but your exposure to depreciation is hugely reduced.

There are two holes in your thinking: finance is cheap this days, but still not free. Definitely costs more than interest rates on deposits, which are abysmal...

With cash on hand you walk into the dealership and can play "I like the colour. I'll take it. Today.". You can't play that card with a finance deal...

You can also haggle for included warranties and higher mileage allowances, whilst also maintaining the right to flog the car back to them in 2 / 3 years if you move out again.

Which you can't do if you're paying cash?! Wait a second - you don't need to haggle the allowance then at all

And returning the car after PCP - the market would have to collapse completely for it to be sensible. In current scenario - you'd be short around 3-5k...

Tom Dunne

Thanks for all the helpful comments.

Can anyone tell me if car salesmen are on commission for selling finance?

Or is it just commission for selling the car?

Henry Ford III

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Thanks for all the helpful comments.

Can anyone tell me if car salesmen are on commission for selling finance?

Or is it just commission for selling the car?

Yes they are. Used to get paid more for selling more expensive credit too.

Tom Dunne

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Yes they are. Used to get paid more for selling more expensive credit too.

So technically, I am at a disadvantage for not wanting credit? Great.

I went into a Kia showroom yesterday, I was told 1500, best I can do, no further bargaining. It looks like the Celtic Tiger is back with a vengeance.

grogi

Tom Dunne wrote: »

So technically, I am at a disadvantage for not wanting credit? Great.

I went into a Kia showroom yesterday, I was told 1500, best I can do, no further bargaining. It looks like the Celtic Tiger is back with a vengeance.

No, not really.
The salesman will not get more than the credit costs. They will get nada on the cheap finance deals...

The only two advantages I see in financing the car rather than a cash payment is:
• that you don't freeze the cash immediately and will release it over the time. Handy if you want to keep that safety cousin.
• you have other credit (even mortgage) that is more expensive than the car finance and you can pay that one back.

Henry Ford III

Tom Dunne wrote: »

So technically, I am at a disadvantage for not wanting credit? Great.

I went into a Kia showroom yesterday, I was told 1500, best I can do, no further bargaining. It looks like the Celtic Tiger is back with a vengeance.

How much were you expecting? Try another few dealers.

stimpson

Wait until the end of the month is my advice - salesmen will be looking to hit targets.

If you're not picky about colour then sit down with a list of all Kia dealers and ring them and ask for their best OTR price on that spec. Tell them you'll be ringing all Kia dealers and will give them a €500 deposit over the phone and will get a draft made out for the remainder if they are the lowest. Someone will want the sale more than all the rest.

dingding

It might also be worth looking at a show room model. My wifes last car was less than a year old 5k kms and a very good spec. Got a serious discount off the price of a new car and it was never taxed. Always driven in trade plates. Her previous car was the same. Might be deals to be done on 161 cars v

Del2005

Tom Dunne wrote: »

So technically, I am at a disadvantage for not wanting credit? Great.

I went into a Kia showroom yesterday, I was told 1500, best I can do, no further bargaining. It looks like the Celtic Tiger is back with a vengeance.

Your looking at the wrong time. Its the start of the 162 reg so cars will be flying out the door so sales people don't have to try, if you can wait a few months they'll be bitting the hand off you.

Toyotafanboi

dingding wrote: »

It might also be worth looking at a show room model. My wifes last car was less than a year old 5k kms and a very good spec. Got a serious discount off the price of a new car and it was never taxed. Always driven in trade plates. Her previous car was the same. Might be deals to be done on 161 cars v

That's good advice this month I reckon, there should be a good few pre reg 161 showroom demos and ex exec cars around with a good wedge off of the list price.

Just be wary you aren't getting an ex hire drive etc.

FrontDoor

What sort of car are you after. If it is something that sells well, then you won't get a lot off. Other models have a bit more leeway.

From your posts, you seem to be pretty risk averse and will happily pay for the peace of mind associated with a new car. In my opinion, you'll pay well for that peace of mind. Lots of people do.

The other side of the coin, somebody posted hereabouts the other day about getting a 15 reg Passat in the UK for 18750. A 162 one of those, for cash is about 29k.

What I find is some dealers employ terrible salesmen from the buyers perspective, who are used to flogging PCPs to people who are often financially illiterate. The strategy here is confusion. They start talking about metallic paint and service packs, cost per month, etc and you can quickly lose any sense of the cost of the car.

Others see straightaway where you are coming from and these are the lads to look for. Tell them you want to do a deal, today if they like. Price the basic model of the car you are after, leaving everything else out. Then get the best price on that. Spec the car you want and figure that out. Then ring around and simply say, is it worth your while travelling. You'll find somebody who will beat it.

Tom Dunne

Ok, some great advice here thanks.

One garage is already following up on a 4-6 month old model for me (not Kia, btw), so lets see how that goes.

Others are simply not interested, its bizarre. I'm spending around €25000, cash, and two particular garages just weren't interested. I might as well have been buying a bicycle off them.

So ill do a bit more travelling around and see how it goes. The more I think about it, the less I want to buy brand new.

bazz26

Just remember that alot of ex-rentals will be back in the next 2 months as the season comes to an end, these would have been taken out back in March. Some dealers may try to pass these off as ex-demos. Ex-rentals tend to have about 10k to 12k miles on them whereas demos tend to be sold after 3 months with a lot less mileage on them.

dingding

The ex rentals will have been taxed, have a higher mileage and a lot of dings on the body work.

Ex Demos probably wont have been taxed (driven on trade plates), in good condition (as new), and generally higher specs.

When I got the ex demo car in dublin, my local dealer was charging a couple of grand more for an ex hire with a lot more mileage on it and a year older. It was obvious that it was an ex hire with the state of the wheels, paintwork etc...

A tell tale sign might be the alloys, with an ex hire they will probably be scuffed, while with an ex demo, unlikely to be marked.


www.carzone.ie has very good filters by year type etc....

dingding

http://www.bmwpremiumselection.ie/used-cars/BMW/1-Series/116d-SE/733091437687055405/


As an example that car would be about 31,500 new.

They are looking for 27,000.

You could probably get them down to 25K and get a 5 year service pack thrown in.

You could probably save 7K and it is a fine car for the money.

It is just an example of what you could save on an ex demo.

I would have a look at similar spec ex demos and shop around between garages.

colm_mcm

Just on demos. They 99% of the time tax them, Usually it's a condition of getting the demo discount from the distributor.
Only time I've seen cars used for demo a lot without being registered would be on a new model at the end of the year where they don't want to register it in November or December and hold off.

Avatar MIA

Welcome back, Tom, hope you sorted out a lecturing position in Ireland.

Did you consider buying a car over in the ME, and bring it home with you. you would not have had to pay VRT. I would have thought you could have got a savage car there.

BrianD3

Is there a particular reason why you are looking at the Hyundai Tucson. Nice enough car but 25k seems like a lot to spend when you you mention wanting an "A to B car" and not having plenty of cash to throw around. There are cheaper A to B cars available new. Eg a Dacia Logan MCV has just as big a boot as Tucson, is available with a 5 year warranty but is about 10 grand cheaper. Also a Skoda Octavia or Octavia estate would be a few grand cheaper than a Tucson.

Tom Dunne

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Welcome back, Tom, hope you sorted out a lecturing position in Ireland.

Did you consider buying a car over in the ME, and bring it home with you. you would not have had to pay VRT. I would have thought you could have got a savage car there.

Buying a car in the Middle East is not the most straight forward, getting a right-hand drive and shipping it to Ireland is a whole lot more hassle than I am willing to put up with. Buying here in Ireland is a much easier option. Though one of my friends actually drove from the Middle East to Ireland last year through Iran/Turkey in a 2-seater, 30-year old Mercedes.

BrianD3 wrote: »

Is there a particular reason why you are looking at the Hyundai Tucson. Nice enough car but 25k seems like a lot to spend when you you mention wanting an "A to B car" and not having plenty of cash to throw around. There are cheaper A to B cars available new. Eg a Dacia Logan MCV has just as big a boot as Tucson, is available with a 5 year warranty but is about 10 grand cheaper. Also a Skoda Octavia or Octavia estate would be a few grand cheaper than a Tucson.

Hyundai Tucson is just an example, and to be honest, I've pretty much ruled it out at this stage. I now have a job, ill be doing about 140km a day, so I'll need a bit of comfort. The Skoda garage was one of those that just wasn't interested in selling me a car.

I'll probably hit a few garages today.

grogi

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I'll probably hit a few garages today.

Qashqai is much nicer place to be in than the over-hyped Tucson if you're looking for a crossover.

You might check its Renault Kadjar - but what you experience at Skoda is my typical experience at Renault garage.

FrontDoor

Tom Dunne wrote: »

The Skoda garage was one of those that just wasn't interested in selling me a car.

The new Skoda in Clare apparently will not be beaten on a cash price.

Driving through Turkey and Iran :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::

Golfgorfield

stimpson wrote: »

Wait until the end of the month is my advice - salesmen will be looking to hit targets.

If you're not picky about colour then sit down with a list of all Kia dealers and ring them and ask for their best OTR price on that spec. Tell them you'll be ringing all Kia dealers and will give them a €500 deposit over the phone and will get a draft made out for the remainder if they are the lowest. Someone will want the sale more than all the rest.

I have done this exact thing for my sister and my mother in law this year, my sister saved €1000 on a new fiesta, and the mother in law a whopping €1350 on a new corolla. She still hates me though :P

FrontDoor

Golfgorfield wrote: »

She still hates me though :P

That's very funny :D

Tom Dunne

Looking at a Renault Kadjar, 20 km (yes, 20, not 20,000 ) 25,500, 161 reg. List price is 29, 950 for this model, so a saving of 4000.

Gorgeous car, lots of gadgets for me.

dingding

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Looking at a Renault Kadjar, 20 km (yes, 20, not 20,000 ) 25,500, 161 reg. List price is 29, 950 for this model, so a saving of 4000.

Gorgeous car, lots of gadgets for me.

When you go to sell trade in a few years that saving will reduce the cost of upgrading as well. Good luck with it.

grogi

dingding wrote: »

When you go to sell trade in a few years that saving will reduce the cost of upgrading as well. Good luck with it.

That's some creative accounting... The same saving consumed twice...

colm_mcm

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Looking at a Renault Kadjar, 20 km (yes, 20, not 20,000 ) 25,500, 161 reg. List price is 29, 950 for this model, so a saving of 4000.

Gorgeous car, lots of gadgets for me.

Nobody pays list price for a Renault.
Still nice discount, but you'd get a fair chunk of that anyway.
That said, even if you're only saving €1k extra it's worth it.

Keep an eye on qashqais as they will most certainly have a higher resale value despite being essentially the same thing.

Wesser

How is 25 k not alot of cash to throw around?


I wish I had 25 k to spend on a car. I only have about 2.

colm_mcm

You need to become an admin!

Tom Dunne

Wesser wrote: »

How is 25 k not alot of cash to throw around?


I wish I had 25 k to spend on a car. I only have about 2.

Who said it wasn't a lot of cash?

Wesser

You did.

You said that you did not want the salesman to assume ( incorrectly) that you have a lot of cash to throw around.

the word " incorrectly" implies that you believe you do not have alot of cash.

Tom Dunne

Just a quick update - I'm picking up the Kadjar tomorrow.

It's been an interesting experience, gone are the days of haggling to get the best deal, a buyer may get a token €1000 off, but nothing more.

I was surprised with the level of apathy and disinterest I experienced, salesmen obviously don't have to work too hard for a sale these days. While I acknowledge my timing wasn't optimum, I didn't have a lot of choice other than to buy now.

Having said that, I am looking forward to enjoying the car and the various gadgets it has to offer.

grogi

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Just a quick update - I'm picking up the Kadjar tomorrow.

It's been an interesting experience, gone are the days of haggling to get the best deal, a buyer may get a token €1000 off, but nothing more.

I was surprised with the level of apathy and disinterest I experienced, salesmen obviously don't have to work too hard for a sale these days. While I acknowledge my timing wasn't optimum, I didn't have a lot of choice other than to buy now.

Having said that, I am looking forward to enjoying the car and the various gadgets it has to offer.

They are not gone... It's Renault

Avatar MIA

grogi wrote: »

They are not gone... It's Renault

bazz26

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Just a quick update - I'm picking up the Kadjar tomorrow.

It's been an interesting experience, gone are the days of haggling to get the best deal, a buyer may get a token €1000 off, but nothing more.

I was surprised with the level of apathy and disinterest I experienced, salesmen obviously don't have to work too hard for a sale these days. While I acknowledge my timing wasn't optimum, I didn't have a lot of choice other than to buy now.

Having said that, I am looking forward to enjoying the car and the various gadgets it has to offer.

It's a case of supply v demand.

1. New car sales for last year and this year to date are at a record high so there is less necessity for dealers to work hard for a sale.
   
2. Also the second half year registration change only kicked in at the beginning of July so new cars are still going out the door in fairly healthy numbers.
   
3. Another thing is that you were in the market for a type of car that have become very popular here in the last number of years. Dealers have no problem selling crossover SUV vehicles.

To get the best deal you really need to pick the correct time when sales are slower than normal and preferably a car that does not have high demand.

deandean

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Just a quick update - I'm picking up the Kadjar tomorrow.

Best wishes with the new car. It's a very pretty bus, I'd pick it any day over the Quashqai.

By any chance did you get one in that lovely candy apple red?

Tom Dunne

deandean wrote: »

By any chance did you get one in that lovely candy apple red?

Dear God, no.

Although, admittedly, it is very nice. Went for the conservative dark grey.

Toyotafanboi

Good luck with the Kadjar. They are infinitely nicer than a Quasqai imo.

What spec is it? Did you get Bose, or the panoramic roof? Both nice options on them!

MojoMaker

Far nicer car than the Nissan, and more practical too. As asked, what spec did you go for? Some tasty options on the Renault list for that model alright.

audi12

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Just looking for advice on how I should handle a car purchase.

I'm a returning emigrant, so I have no trade-in. I'm also a cash buyer, so no banks/finance needed. I will most likely buy new.

I don't want to let the dealer know I am returning from the Middle East, as I am sure they will jump to the (incorrect) assumption that I have plenty of cash to throw around.

Just wondering on the whole finance thing - are car salesman on commission for getting customers to sign up for finance? As in, does it put me in a weaker position because I won't be signing up for finance?

Any ideas on what kind of discount to expect on a car? If the list price, say, for a Hyundai Tuscon is 25,475, what should my target be to haggle the salesman down? I also believe these are flying off the salesroom floor, so the salesman may not be as willing to haggle.

Any tips for me when I go into a garage to start the negotiations?

I worked in car sales for in a garage selling hyundais for the past year. You must have plenty of money if you are buying with cash.

audi12

grogi wrote: »

Qashqai is much nicer place to be in than the over-hyped Tucson if you're looking for a crossover.

You might check its Renault Kadjar - but what you experience at Skoda is my typical experience at Renault garage.

Sold Tucsons no longer in sales but do not agree dont see the attraction with them Nissans as for the Renault awful advice deprecation is crazy and its a Renault enough said.

Tom Dunne

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Good luck with the Kadjar. They are infinitely nicer than a Quasqai imo.

What spec is it? Did you get Bose, or the panoramic roof? Both nice options on them!

It's the Dynamique Nava model. Didn't get the panoramic roof, not sure about the Bose speakers, I'll check. It's a lovely drive, but I'm having a (well known) issue with getting my Samsung connected to it over Bluetooth.

audi12 wrote: »

I worked in car sales for in a garage selling hyundais for the past year. You must have plenty of money if you are buying with cash.

Seriously, WTF has this got to do with anything? I studied hard, I worked hard and I saved hard. Do us all a favour and take your begrudgery elsewhere.

bazz26

audi12 wrote: »

I worked in car sales for in a garage selling hyundais for the past year. You must have plenty of money if you are buying with cash.

How much money or how the OP spends it is nobody's concern but the OPs. Typical Irish begrudging attitude though.

audi12 wrote: »

Sold Tucsons no longer in sales but do not agree dont see the attraction with them Nissans as for the Renault awful advice deprecation is crazy and its a Renault enough said.

Not difficult to think why.