Suicide

tomofson

Just thought I would share a few views on this subject and welcome any others

I recently replied to an ignorant commenter on here with an ignorant comment of my own that I didn't actually mean, I sort of suggested suicide was a cowardly action but that is actually not my view on the matter. Although I see how suicide can be perceived as cowardly I do not think it is, in fact I view it as being brave if anything... Being able to basically run head first in the unknown is not a cowardly thing to do... Nobody really knows what is there though people have their own theories, some think heaven/hell some think a forgiving god others think a vengeful god some think nothing at all while some like myself are completely unsure. To be able to take your own life with all this unknown to you could not be cowardly.... Ignorant/selfish maybe but not cowardly....

I have had those thoughts in my life as it has been far from easy for me although I dont think I have had the hardest life imaginable, far from it actually.... Dropped out of school at the beginning of second year for my own personal reasons which I will not get into on this... That is the reason I am not so articulate though I do try my best....

I am not crying out for attention by the way or trying to suggest I will commit such an act cause I know for a fact I wouldn't just thought I would open up a thread on the matter and make my views on the subject clear...

I have lost people to suicide and I dont see them as cowards...

bobbysands81

If anyone reading this thread feels that the need urgent help or just someone to talk to please call The Samaritans on 116 123.

If anyone feels they may be vulnerable at some stage in the future why not put The Samaritans number 116 123 in your phone under the name SAM, then you know that no matter what happens you have somewhere to turn 24/7.

Sorry to hijack thread.

tomofson

bobbysands81 wrote: »

If anyone reading this feels that the need urgent help or just someone to talk to please call The Samaritans on 116 123.

Not to sure if you were taking the piss writing that but yes definitely that is what they should do...

s4uv3

tomofson wrote: »

Not to sure if you were taking the piss writing that but yes definitely that is what they should do...

I'd wager he wasn't taking the piss, suicide is no joking matter. You never know who's reading this that might just pick up the phone and say "I'm not ok"

JeffKenna

tomofson wrote: »

Not to sure if you were taking the piss writing that but yes definitely that is what they should do...

Or call Console on 1800 247 247

dodderangler

Lost 3 friends to suicide. It is a selfish act but you never know what demons are in their heads. Just wish they'd have talked to me or someone. One of them was a really close friend. He was just 15. I was 14 at the time. Not a day goes by that I don't think of him.

bobbysands81

tomofson wrote: »

Not to sure if you were taking the piss writing that but yes definitely that is what they should do...

Im just throwing it there I case a serious conversation surrounding suicide takes place in case you or anyone else feels they may need it at some stage.

I hope you don't feel it's a judgement against you, that's not my intention.

Aurum

I think that by the time a person has reached a point where they actively try to kill themselves, their thought processes are so distorted that adjectives like brave or cowardly aren't really applicable any more. It seems, from on outside perspective, to be pure desperation to not feel anything anymore.

celligraphy

Lost so many family members to this, it is selfish, has destroyed the entire family and kids have lost parents , and parents have lost children , it's a horrible thing , sometimes I feel sad for what they went through to commit suicide and then most of the time I'm angry for how they have just left us

tomofson

Aurum wrote: »

I think that by the time a person has reached a point where they actively try to kill themselves, their thought processes are so distorted that adjectives like brave or cowardly aren't really applicable any more. It seems, from on outside perspective, to be pure desperation to not feel anything anymore.

Yes I agree thank you for putting it a way I couldn't...

Bubbaclaus

I don't understand why someone would stoop to suicide and I hope I never will. I feel to understand it you need to actually feel it, and I hope to never experience those thoughts.

Barry Badrinath

Not an easy subject to broach.

Iv lost a few friends to suicide, as Im sure most of us have. Most hung themselves, others shot themselves.

People label it as a cowardly act, I just see it as a tragedy.

Is it cowardly not to seek help? Don't know but it's not always the easiest thing to do.

tomofson

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I don't understand why someone would stoop to suicide and I hope I never will. I feel to understand it you need to actually feel it, and I hope to never experience those thoughts.

I hope you never experience them either...

dodderangler

McGruber wrote: »

Is it cowardly not to seek help? Don't know but it's not always the easiest thing to do.

I think it's more embarrassment for them to seek help. Also they are not willing to admit that they need help. They think it's a sign of weakness almost and they can handle it on their own and by the time they realise they can't it's already gone past the point of them wanting the help. Talking is such a relief off their heads and I'm speaking from fighting my own demons a long long time ago and had I not had the family and friends I have I may not be writing this.
There's always someone out there who will listen and give a friendly ear.

bobbysands81

s4uv3 wrote: »

I'd wager he wasn't taking the piss, suicide is no joking matter. You never know who's reading this that might just pick up the phone and say "I'm not ok"

Yup, it's ok not to be ok.

FalconGirl

Suicide is the crisis of our generation. The amount of young people in my local graveyard who have done it in the past 12 months is staggering. I'd go as far as saying it's a national emergency.

I myself have lost 2 family members and a friend.

Barry Badrinath

dodderangler wrote: »

I think it's more embarrassment for them to seek help. Also they are not willing to admit that they need help. They think it's a sign of weakness almost and they can handle it on their own and by the time they realise they can't it's already gone past the point of them wanting the help. Talking is such a relief off their heads and I'm speaking from fighting my own demons a long long time ago and had I not had the family and friends I have I may not be writing this.
There's always someone out there who will listen and give a friendly ear.

Very true.

The stigma associated with it doesn't help either. Although, the awareness of mental health issues is more prevelant in society today than in the past.

Help in many mediums is only an armreach away. Unfortunately for some people, they may feel that an armreach may as well be a million miles away.

Right im outta this thread. It's good to talk folks.

Joeseph Balls

dodderangler wrote: »

I think it's more embarrassment for them to seek help. Also they are not willing to admit that they need help. They think it's a sign of weakness almost and they can handle it on their own and by the time they realise they can't it's already gone past the point of them wanting the help. Talking is such a relief off their heads and I'm speaking from fighting my own demons a long long time ago and had I not had the family and friends I have I may not be writing this.
There's always someone out there who will listen and give a friendly ear.

The thing is, sometimes people do reach out, and we don't notice.
The ASSIST course is something everyone should do I think.

Barry Badrinath

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

The thing is, sometimes people do reach out, and we don't notice.
The ASSIST course is something everyone should do I think.

Seconded

JinkyJackson

More people dead from suiced than car accidents each year. Yet car accidents get news time every weekend.

bobbysands81

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

The thing is, sometimes people do reach out, and we don't notice.
The ASSIST course is something everyone should do I think.

SafeTALK and ASIST should be compulsory for second level students.

Both are excellent and are responsible for a lot of lives being saved.

s4uv3

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

The ASSIST course is something everyone should do I think.

I've been meaning to do this and have tried finding info on it online before but couldn't get anything. I'm a bit thick sometimes

Anyone here have a link or phone number for them?

YFlyer

Aurum wrote: »

I think that by the time a person has reached a point where they actively try to kill themselves, their thought processes are so distorted that adjectives like brave or cowardly aren't really applicable any more. It seems, from on outside perspective, to be pure desperation to not feel anything anymore.

That's why people should learn an effective meditation technique beforehand to mitigate any suicidal tendencies.

dresden8

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I don't understand why someone would stoop to suicide and I hope I never will. I feel to understand it you need to actually feel it, and I hope to never experience those thoughts.

Many people experience those thoughts. Most step away. Some don't.

Like it or not, it's an option.

Pique

s4uv3 wrote: »

I've been meaning to do this and have tried finding info on it online before but couldn't get anything. I'm a bit thick sometimes

Anyone here have a link or phone number for them?

Seconded. I've never heard of either.

Gen.Zhukov

This 'It's a selfish thing to do' gets right on my tits.

Someone feels so fcuking sh!t that they take their own life. Then people go....'Terrible selfish thing to do........he/she should have stayed in constant, excruciating pain for years to come so we didn't have feel a bit sh!t for a while...... the selfish fecker'

He felt so bad he fcukin killed himself ffs !

I would implore anyone feeling this bad to make that 2 min call. You will find it will help.

Joeseph Balls

Pique wrote: »

Seconded. I've never heard of either.

Hi, Google, livingworks.net
ASIST should come up.

Barry Badrinath

ASIST Course

http://www.yourmentalhealth.ie/Get-involved/News-events/Events/

Select your county and date range. Course planning dates will pop up.

eviltwin

1.618 wrote: »

This 'It's a selfish thing to do' gets right on my tits.

Someone feels so fcuking sh!t that they take their own life. Then people go....'Terrible selfish thing to do........he/she should have stayed in constant, excruciating pain for years to come so we didn't have feel a bit sh!t for a while...... the selfish fecker'

He felt so bad he fcukin killed himself ffs !

I would implore anyone feeling this bad to make that 2 min call. You will find it will help.

Totally agree. It's not selfish. It's the last resort of someone going through unbearable mental torture. I've lost two people through suicide and selfish was the last thing they were. They managed to keep going as long as they did because they put their loved ones first but in the end they couldn't keep fighting. It's not the shame of the person who takes their life, it's the shame of the woeful mental health services in this country who could not or would not help.

YFlyer

YFlyer wrote: »

That's why people should learn an effective meditation technique beforehand to mitigate any suicidal tendencies.

Unfortunately suicidal ideation is often a symptom of deep seated issues where effective meditation techniques aren't going to be worth a damn. As part of a long-term treatment program perhaps.

Something often said by people that attempted suicide is how they had a moment of realization and regret just at that moment of past the point of no return.

arybvtcw0eolkf

dodderangler wrote: »

Lost 3 friends to suicide. . Just wish they'd have talked to me or someone. One of them was a really close friend. He was just 15. I was 14 at the time. Not a day goes by that I don't think of him.

Same here, but a bit more than three.. But one in particular I think about all the fooking time, not a day goes by when I haven't thought about him and wondered if he thought of calling someone.

Like a ''what if'' question is hanging there all the time ''What if Liam had called me" ~ and stupidly I play out his last moments in my mind.

He was a big strong lad too, loved the kids and the outdoors. We'd done loads together and I'd never have thought this was the person who'd do it.

But God alone knows why.

My mate Liam hung himself five years ago.

God bless.

Fleawuss

I'm unsure what to write. Thinking of my own old age I have no intention of lingering in some appalling no quality of life situation if I can avoid it. I'm sure that's selfish in some way but I believe that is my right and my decision. It is my life and to me that means it is my death too if that's the way it has to be.

Thinking of the younger lives lost to suicide saddens me and I try to see what is different between them and a decision I might make in the future. They must all have had their reasons and I don't presume to judge. One difference is age: my life is in the last quarter and like a lot of people I wonder at young people ending it with, apparently, so much to live for. But they must have felt, if only for an impulsive moment, that they didn't.

Is there a sense now that your life has to be Facebook perfect, flawless, as laid out by the friends and social media? People can't be themselves because that's to be rejected and not belonging is the most unbearable thing of all.

I think if we are to talk about suicide we need to hear some difficult truths. I hope the country is grown up enough for it.

YFlyer

Deleted User wrote: »

Unfortunately suicidal ideation is often a symptom of deep seated issues where effective meditation techniques aren't going to be worth a damn. As part of a long-term treatment program perhaps.

Transcendental meditation has shown to be highly effective in treating PTSD.

I love after hours but in my opinion it's not appropriate for this discussion.

I have been there on several occasions but there is something there that brings me back from the edge everytime. I completely understand why people commit suicide and would go so far as to say I can understand the thought processes that drive a person to the point of no return. You are not brave, you are not weak, you are not strong. You are alone and so caught up in the downward spiral that you just want it all to go away.

Having a person that you can talk to is incredibly important. Everyone and in particular young people should be taught how to talk and more importantly how to listen to each other. How many parents and friends have said that they never knew a person was depressed?

If you are one of those people on a downward spiral, before making a final decision, talk to someone. Talk to anyone. Whether it's a friend, a stranger or a helpline. You might not see it right now but there is always more to live for than to die for.

Gen.Zhukov

Should have put this in earlier post:

Many people who do die by suicide have had the ' It would be better for everyone that I was gone '

It doesn't get anymore selfless than that.

However, it really would be much better for everyone, if you stayed.:)

YFlyer

YFlyer wrote: »

Transcendental meditation has shown to be highly effective in treating PTSD.

There is no one size fits all. It's important when discussing possible treatment for suicidal ideation that this is realised. Suicidal ideation and attempts hit a vast range of individuals.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I love after hours but in my opinion it's not appropriate for this discussion.

I have been there on several occasions but there is something there that brings me back from the edge everytime. I completely understand why people commit suicide and would go so far as to say I can understand the thought processes that drive a person to the point of no return. You are not brave, you are not weak, you are not strong. You are alone and so caught up in the downward spiral that you just want it all to go away.

Having a person that you can talk to is incredibly important. Everyone and in particular young people should be taught how to talk and more importantly how to listen to each other. How many parents and friends have said that they never knew a person was depressed?

If you are one of those people on a downward spiral, before making a final decision, talk to someone. Talk to anyone. Whether it's a friend, a stranger or a helpline. You might not see it right now but there is always more to live for than to die for.

Why do you think After Hours isn't the place for this discussion? It's a hugely important topic which so many of us are effected by. Talking about it is so important. Hearing different opinions on it is important. There is already a long running thread on this forum where people can share their experiences of depression and tough times. It's brilliant and works very well here.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why do you think After Hours isn't the place for this discussion? It's a hugely important topic which so many of us are effected by. Talking about it is so important. Hearing different opinions on it is important. There is already a long running thread on this forum where people can share their experiences of depression and tough times. It's brilliant and works very well here.

You don't necessarily have to be as considerate on after hours with what you say. I worry that people could make remarks that could upset a vulnerable person. On the other hand, it is the internet and a public forum.

mirrorwall14

TBH as I can't go unregistered I can't go into my own experience as its too identifiable. Suffice to say through close association with someone who did look for help our system is totally and utterly ****ed. Underfunded and incredibly expensive to go private in as these are not one off fixes. Someone at this stages needs on going counselling, CBT and psychiatric care.

And yes I would understand. I honestly think some of the people battling demons do well to keep going as long as they do. You don't say it's selfish of a cancer patient to die. I hope some day we reach a point where we no longer say that someone with serious mental health issues is selfish to die

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You don't necessarily have to be as considerate on after hours with what you say. I worry that people could make remarks that could upset a vulnerable person. On the other hand, it is the internet and a public forum.

I really believe that if a horrible post appeared here in this thread it would be actioned.

Whispered

I think it's important to point out that for some there might be embarrassment in looking for help, but for many it's just sheer exhaustion. They just feel that they can not keep fighting, that no matter what help they get it doesn't matter, they are in a rut and genuinely believe there is no other way out.

Queenalocin

s4uv3 wrote: »

I've been meaning to do this and have tried finding info on it online before but couldn't get anything. I'm a bit thick sometimes

Anyone here have a link or phone number for them?

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/Mental_Health_Services/NOSP

Well worth doing, but you need to be in a good place yourself as the ASIST course is very intense.

Graigmanliam

From my own experience, October last year my father had a bad reaction to a colonoscopy and fell odwn the stairs. The whole thing just knocked me for six, He is fine now but the anxiety I felt over the whole thing was un real. The following day I was walking down by the river, a walk i have done many times in my life and I love it but this particular day something was different. I sat on a bench, looking out at the water & i thought that I could throw my self in, I actually thought to myself for the first time in my life that I could do it. that was scary. So that evening I said it to my sister and i think to vocalise it felt like a burden was lifted & we went to the doctor that moment, he prescribed me parox & lyrica (anti depressant & anti anxiety). They helped a lot to basically tell my brain to calm down and think more rationally. It has been a very slow process to rid my self of the depression and anxieties. I have always been an anxious person full of nerves so I wouldn't be the best at coping with bad situations. Now 9 months later and I'm still on them but only 1 tablet a day now instead of 5. It can a slow process filled with anger in my case (thanks to the lyrica which i'm no longer taking)

B.A._Baracus

Suicide is an awful thing I always remember this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1428408/Suicide-by-DIY-guillotine-and-an-ingenious-timing-device.html

I feel sad reading it again. RIP Mr Boyd Taylor.

YFlyer

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no one size fits all. It's important when discussing possible treatment for suicidal ideation that this is realised. Suicidal ideation and attempts hit a vast range of individuals.

Are you disputing the benefits of TM?

YFlyer

YFlyer wrote: »

Are you disputing the benefits of TM?

Your initial post gave the impression that by implementing effective meditation techniques then suicide could be prevented. I disagree because we are all individuals. What might be beneficial for some will be useless for others. Transcendental meditation will not be effective for all individuals with PTSD or suicidal ideation or both.

YFlyer

I said mitigated. The regular practice of meditation will give the benefits. There is no short term quick fixs.

YFlyer

YFlyer wrote: »

I said mitigated. The regular practice of meditation will give the benefits. There is no short term quick fixs.

In some cases regular practice of meditation won't do a damn thing because it's not for everyone.

Speedwell

Transcendental meditation is all very well and good for what it is for (a mind generally at peace that can heal itself). Similarly mantra meditation, mindfulness meditation, visualisation, and prana breathing are all good for people who are in distress but not in suicidal distress.

The technique that I learned that stopped my panic attacks dead in their tracks, and brought me back from the brink several times during a time when I was undergoing overwhelming stress, is EFT (also known as "tapping"). It is easy and free to learn, and there are many practitioners who have YouTube sessions to guide the self-taught. I was fortunate enough to be able to go to a therapist in the US who used a combination of tapping and similar techniques to break the circle of anxiety and help me process the "bad stuff". I don't have any affiliation with these people, but I have their book and it is good. http://www.thetappingsolution.com/what-is-eft-tapping/

Here's an article showing how mainstream and effective tapping is, too: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/resolution-not-conflict/201110/energy-therapy-acupoint-tapping-the-best-ptsd-treatment I don't buy into the mystical "energy meridians" approach personally, but tapping is a very effective way to distract the body from attempting to drive you doolally by making stress biochemicals, and switches it to processing out the "bad" biochemicals instead. Know that it does take time for the body to metabolise and eliminate the distress chemicals... ten minutes should be enough.

Because mental pain is just as painful as physical pain, and it is "read" by the body as just plain pain, and involves some very complex biochemistry, don't be ashamed to seek help from your GP, who can prescribe or refer you for medication that will eventually help. It may be a crutch, but when your leg is broken, it's perfectly proper and appropriate to use crutches.

WARNING: triggering language below (although if you are reading this thread you are probably plenty triggered by now)

In the US, we are more open about suicide. I've been the intervenor in at least three cases of suicide in which someone came online and said "I can't do this anymore and I've just taken a lot of pills/I bought a gun/I'm ready to slash my wrists". One of the cases was a very depressed woman in England, and when I called her local police to report her desperate situation (her husband was away and she was alone), it was a huge struggle to get them to believe me and take me seriously. But they got to her before the pills took full effect, and her husband was so grateful (and later, so was she).

My younger brother shot himself. He'd been ill for a long time, and our father (with whom he lived and upon whom he depended) had recently died, and he had just broken up with his girlfriend and felt as though he'd never have another because of his illness. He'd been talking for years about taking his own life. Our middle brother, who lived in the same city (I lived hours away) would no longer visit our younger brother at his house because he knew our brother had a gun and was suicidal, and our middle brother was frightened that "something would happen" and he'd leave his own kids fatherless. Our brother refused flatly to go to therapy or to do anything else for self-help. He was on methadone for prescription opiate addiction due to his many hospitalisations, and so it was troublesome for him to take psychiatric medications. We didn't call the authorities or put our brother in the hospital because we'd talked with him about his suicidal threats and he was adamant that he considered that sort of intervention worse than his day-to-day suffering. In the end there was not very much we could do, and I'm torn about whether we should have done it over his objections.

The idea that suicide is cowardly absolutely does enter your head when you are suicidal, but you tell yourself that people will understand, or would understand if they knew how bad things were for you. The self-talk is deafening. You just pray for everything to stop and be quiet and not hurt anymore. It's important to know that depression and suicide are very strongly associated, but not every depressed person becomes suicidal and not every suicidal person is depressed (anxiety plays a huge role, and so does loneliness, and so does the idea that the suicidal person is a burden on their friends/relatives).

There have been days when I wished an angel would hand me a pill that would let me "go away" quietly and peacefully and permanently. Unfortunately there are no such pills. Suicide is literally hurting yourself to death, so it is usually incredibly painful, and human bodies are very good at trying to keep living, so it is also incredibly difficult and often done badly. The risk of doing it wrong and living with a ruined body and/or mind, so ruined that it might be impossible to try again, and worse than the situation from which the suicide was trying to escape in the first place, is very real.

Most people aren't suicidal. Suicidal thoughts and feelings are not a normal way to respond to stress and pain; they are as indicative of stress illness as physical pain is indicative of physical damage. If you are suicidal, don't let the bad thoughts of pain and fear win. Tomorrow could be the day things change for the better, because things have a way of changing quickly in life, and you want to be around when they get better (they could scarcely get much worse). The next person you talk to could be someone who knows how to help. People are mostly caring and want to help if you just tell them how. Sleep is also a great mental healer... there are some who say that all healing, physical and mental, is done during sleep. If you can sleep, do sleep. If you can't sleep, see your GP for safe ways to help you sleep.

Riddle101

There was a thread created on here several years ago talking about some banker who committed suicide one day. He was just an ordinary bank teller, not a higher executive or anything. He had a family and it was during the early days of the recession, and these bankers were getting an awful time from the public. I remember at the time I called him selfish because all I could think about was his wife and kids, but looking back I've since changed my mind and think my comments were very ignorant. After doing more research on the topic of suicide i've since come to the conclusion that suicide is not cowardly or selfish. A lot of cases for suicide are the result of depression or mental health disorders, and I think it's unfair to label people with mental health issues cowards or selfish when it's much more deeper than that.

Nowadays whenever I see a discussion about suicide, and some ignoramus is there calling suicide victims out for being selfish or cowards, I usually rush to their defense.