Reporting an uninsured driver?

tayto lover

kbannon wrote: »

Why would you want an investigation given that you've deemed them guilty already?

I am also of the belief that the Insurance Companies have agreed together / conspired to increase their profits by manipulating the figures in order to charge us more. This needs to be investigated by an independent body.

Allinall

tayto lover wrote: »

I am also of the belief that the Insurance Companies have agreed together / conspired to increase their profits by manipulating the figures in order to charge us more. This needs to be investigated by an independent body.

I suspect if an Independant body carried out a thorough investigation, and came to the conclusion that the insurance companies were not in fact raking in profits, but increasing premiums to try and keep their heads above water, the next step would be to call for an investigation into the Independant body, with the allegation that they too are " in on the act".

You say that the insurance companies are conspiring to " increase profits"?

I would ask- what profits?

tayto lover

Allinall wrote: »

I suspect if an Independant body carried out a thorough investigation, and came to the conclusion that the insurance companies were not in fact raking in profits, but increasing premiums to try and keep their heads above water, the next step would be to call for an investigation into the Independant body, with the allegation that they too are " in on the act".

You say that the insurance companies are conspiring to " increase profits"?

I would ask- what profits?

Insurance companies are in business to make money. They are obviously making profits or they would not exist.

Manipulating the figures to make huge profits are what i'm against.
According to the radio this morning their figures and the Garda figures do not match in any way.

Liam McPoyle

tayto lover wrote: »

Insurance companies are in business to make money. They are obviously making profits or they would not exist.

Manipulating the figures to make huge profits are what i'm against.
According to the radio this morning their figures and the Garda figures do not match in any way.

What figures precisely?

People do realise that its not just motor premiums that have increased and that its not just motor claims that effect motor premiums, yes?

Employers liability claims have increased as have public liability claims.

grogi

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

People do realise that its not just motor premiums that have increased and that its not just motor claims that effect motor premiums, yes?

No, they don't... A typical Joe does not see further than the tip of his nose unfortunately.

tayto lover

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

What figures precisely?

People do realise that its not just motor premiums that have increased and that its not just motor claims that effect motor premiums, yes?

Employers liability claims have increased as have public liability claims.

Have you figures to prove this?
Are they in keeping with the percentage increases the people are faced with?

Liam McPoyle

tayto lover wrote: »

Have you figures to prove this?
Are they in keeping with the percentage increases the people are faced with?

I don't have figure's other than what I see through the course of my job everyday.

Purely anecdotal of course because obviously I'm not going to post sensitive, protected data on a public message board. So you can take me at my word or disregard, up to you. There has been some stuff in the media recently enough though from iirc a spokesman for SME business and the difficulties they are facing.

Certain classes of business are worse effected than others.

Large retail outlets and pubs in particular have seen year on year increases of up to 50%.

A lot of the established insurers will not even write new pub business because its such a toxi book of business.

There are a couple of unlicenced / unrated insurers writing pubs for stupidly low premiums.

They are essentially taking a punt that there won't be any claims on the pubs for the next 12 months because 1 bad claim could wipe out the premium income from 100 pubs.

Bongalongherb

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

I don't have figure's other than what I see through the course of my job everyday.

Purely anecdotal of course because obviously I'm not going to post sensitive, protected data on a public message board. So you can take me at my word or disregard, up to you. There has been some stuff in the media recently enough though from iirc a spokesman for SME business and the difficulties they are facing.

Certain classes of business are worse effected than others.

Large retail outlets and pubs in particular have seen year on year increases of up to 50%.

A lot of the established insurers will not even write new pub business because its such a toxi book of business.

There are a couple of unlicenced / unrated insurers writing pubs for stupidly low premiums.

They are essentially taking a punt that there won't be any claims on the pubs for the next 12 months because 1 bad claim could wipe out the premium income from 100 pubs.

Yeah right. You can't back yourself up can you, what a joke. I'd take everything with a pinch of salt from you guys.

Liam McPoyle

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Yeah right. You can't back yourself up can you, what a joke. I'd take everything with a pinch of salt from you guys.

Well people can choose to believe me, someone that has worked in insurance for 7 years including two as an underwriter or you, that has, eh, not.

No skin off my nose anyway, I know I'm right so that's all that matters tbh.

I do find it amusing that a few people are so quick to try and discredit what I say.

You would swear that I am actually the insurance company and that all these profits, (profits that have been disguised as the losses shown in the annual accounts of course) are going straight into my pocket.

Vic_08

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Well people can choose to believe me, someone that has worked in insurance for 7 years including two as an underwriter or you, that has, eh, not.

No skin off my nose anyway, I know I'm right so that's all that matters tbh.

I do find it amusing that a few people are so quick to try and discredit what I say.

You would swear that I am actually the insurance company and that all these profits, (profits that have been disguised as the losses shown in the annual accounts of course) are going straight into my pocket.

It's hard to believe that the insurance industry is not at fault when they can't even maintain an accurate database of their policies to help the Gardai catch uninsured motorists, this despite all the pleads for the public to help them stamp out fraud.

Something is very wrong across the entire insurance industry and the attitude of the companies who sell mandatory motor premiums is to shrug their shoulders and load the costs onto customers.

red sean

Here's one reason why we're all ( well most us ) are paying big insurance premiums:
https://carmodymoran.ie/2012/07/25/uninsured-driver-claims/
These figures are for 2006-2011

Vic_08

red sean wrote: »

Here's one reason why we're all ( well most us ) are paying big insurance premiums:
https://carmodymoran.ie/2012/07/25/uninsured-driver-claims/
These figures are for 2006-2011

A good little article with some facts that highlight how the entire area of uninsured drivers is being mismanaged by insurance industry and govenment.

A 1.7% rate of recouping claims from the guilty party is pathetic but sure what do they care just put a bigger bill to policyholders next year.

The_Honeybadger

Vic_08 wrote: »

A good little article with some facts that highlight how the entire area of uninsured drivers is being mismanaged by insurance industry and govenment.

A 1.7% rate of recouping claims from the guilty party is pathetic but sure what do they care just put a bigger bill to policyholders next year.

Money is written off as unrecoverable I'd imagine. The kind of people that drive around without insurance typically don't have five figure sums readily available to settle claims.

Vic_08

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope.

She works/worked in a chipper. She works until after midnight. There is no bus.


You can't just quote her insurance at 6k and she's at fault for everything. The insurance company effectively made her unemployed.

Would you drive uninsured in those circumstances? I would.

It needs regulation, fast.

No. I wouldn't and haven't driven uninsured when I was unable to afford a policy as a young driver in the 90s.

As overpriced as insurance premiums are, for someone to be quoted 6k they must have some very bad history. I have lots of sympathy when people are priced off the road arbitrarily (car over a certain age type nonsense) or because they have little experience but if the have multiple claims or driving convictions then the insurance company have every right to load policies as they are proven bad risks.

Vic_08

mickeyk wrote: »

Money is written off as unrecoverable I'd imagine. The kind of people that drive around without insurance typically don't have five figure sums readily available to settle claims.

Read the article, average claim is around €2750. I don't expect full recovery of all claims but 1.7% is a massive red flag that says they aren't even trying.

There are bound to be some very high claims in the mix which won't be recoverable but balancing that would have to be lots of relatively small 3-4 figure claims.

They are driving uninsured so they at least have cars, take them and off to auction for a start. Even if the cost v recovery is marginal I would prefer for the companies to pursue them down to stripping their houses of all saleable goods before writing it off.

As usual for Ireland it'll be the court and legal fees that are the issue, no point in pursuing someone for €1k when it'll cost €3k to do the legal work.

The problem is there is no incentive to recover, it is time consuming and costly, much easier to just lump it on the policies of law abiding citizens. The crims get away without having to pay legally or financially, the insurance companies increase premiums to ensure their profit margin, the lawyers get their fees and things just get worse for the never ending cash cow that is the Irish consumer.

Liam McPoyle

Vic_08 wrote: »

It's hard to believe that the insurance industry is not at fault when they can't even maintain an accurate database of their policies to help the Gardai catch uninsured motorists, this despite all the pleads for the public to help them stamp out fraud.

Something is very wrong across the entire insurance industry and the attitude of the companies who sell mandatory motor premiums is to shrug their shoulders and load the costs onto customers.

I'm not sure where you are getting this conclusion from but all insurers are legally obliged to provide details of every new motor policy written to the DoE and the gardai within 10 days of inception and the same for every policy cancelled, again within 10 days of policy cessation.

Insurers cannot be held responsible for lack of gardai resources to correctly manage this data.

The industry is in the process of improving its insurance link system - the system that records details of all previous claimants that can be cross referenced by other insurers - however this costs a huge amount of money never mind the man hours required to improve and maintain it. There is also the little legal matter of the data protection act. Insurers are rightly not going to go into something hell for leather without fully understanding their potential exposure should incorrect information be given or if the wrong person gets their hands on sensitive data.

Does you or anyone else for that matter think that insurers don't care?

Of course they bloody care.

I see lots of people complaining but not one single person coming up with ideas to improve things.

shietpilot

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

I'm not sure where you are getting this conclusion from but all insurers are legally obliged to provide details of every new motor policy written to the DoE and the gardai within 10 days of inception and the same for every policy cancelled, again within 10 days of policy cessation.

Has this been happening for a long time or is it a recent thing? I was asked to present my insurance certificate to a Garda station of my choice recently. Seems pointless if they already have this information available but I suppose it explains it if they are not using the data properly and just stacking it on a shelf somewhere :eek:

grogi

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

I see lots of people complaining but not one single person coming up with ideas to improve things.

Unfortunately to keep up-to-data data in such system is a big task.
It is much bigger than just the list of insured cars.

Liam McPoyle

shietpilot wrote: »

Has this been happening for a long time or is it a recent thing? I was asked to present my insurance certificate to a Garda station of my choice recently. Seems pointless if they already have this information available but I suppose it explains it if they are not using the data properly and just stacking it on a shelf somewhere :eek:

Afair its been around a while, I'm in work at the moment but will dig out my course notes later on and post additional info.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Bongalongherb wrote: »

These insurance companies 38 I think or more are just pricing people out of the market. If the car insurance was 'just' and reasonable, you would have more folk getting insured, but at this time the greed from these companies has gone over the top and needs to be dealt with.
.

What I don't get is why 1 insurer doesn't decide to take just a reasonable profit by reducing their prices to an affordable level. Surely €x profit per policy by 1,000s of customers is better than €xxx profit by a few hundred customers. They would mop up a lot of business

grogi

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

What I don't get is why 1 insurer doesn't decide to take just a reasonable profit by reducing their prices to an affordable level. Surely €x profit per policy by 1,000s of customers is better than €xxx profit by a few hundred customers. They would mop up a lot of business

Cartels don't work like that.

I am not saying there is a cartel, but if there was, it would not be that simple.

Vic_08

Vic_08 wrote: »

No. I wouldn't and haven't driven uninsured when I was unable to afford a policy as a young driver in the 90s.

As overpriced as insurance premiums are, for someone to be quoted 6k they must have some very bad history. I have lots of sympathy when people are priced off the road arbitrarily (car over a certain age type nonsense) or because they have little experience but if the have multiple claims or driving convictions then the insurance company have every right to load policies as they are proven bad risks.

I'd completely agree with you, regarding dirivng history. If someone is a serial claimant who's constantly walloping into everyhing in sight, maybe they're best off the road.

My understanding of this girl in particular is she had no claims. She drives a focus (I think it's an 01, or 02) and although I don't know how long she's been driving, I do know she's been driving at least 3 years (when I first met her she was driving). She'd be in the 25-30 age bracked.


I wouldn't bother bringing her up as an example in the first place if there was any part of me that thought she was deservedly priced off the road. The only reason I'm mentioning her in the first place is because she was, exactly as you stated, arbitrarily priced off the road.


Insurance is an out and out con. This country's government makes you legally required to have it, only allows the private for-profit sector to sell it, and it's so deeply ingrained against the customer, that the motoring public, who are fully above board and have insurance, are terrified of making any claim, no matter how small, because of the fear that they'll be paying for it for years to come.

You go out and pay over the odds for your 12 month policy, to drive your bog standard car, and you're afraid to use the service you're paying for. And worse again, is that if you do dare make a claim, the insurance company make no secret of the fact that they will do whatever they can to not cover you.


I'm down a grand this year to pay for my 1.6 diesel estate, which, if I do crash, unless I kill a school bus full of kids, I'll be better off paying for damages out of my own pocket, rather than even mention it to the insurance company.

If someone else drives into the back of me, and is black-and-white in the wrong, there's still not a hope any other insurance company will quote me because I've an open claim that I've no blame in, meaning my own insurance company can nuke me with a price and I've no choice but to accept.

And then if I do write my car off, the insurance company, who go out of their way to ask me what the value of the car is when providing the quote, will then only provide market value, so even if i add an extre couple of grand on for a stereo system or in-car entertainment that i feel pushed up the price of the car when i bought it, they'll tell me that's nothing to do with them and they're only offering me the value of the lowest-priced version of my car on DoneDeal, regardless of it's condition.

Even worse, is that you can't lobby the govt. to add the cost of insurance onto fuel, as you know that they'll ride you so hard that you'd have been better off in the current situation.


It's a fcuking joke.

Cheensbo

So can the gardai seize a car that's being driven on a drivers 'extension/driving other cars' policy - because it has no disc?

What if the car doesn't have a policy directly attached to it, I occasionally drive a family hack that doesn't have a direct policy on it, but fulfils the criteria of my driving other cars clause in my insurance policy. Can I still be penalised despite my compliance with the law?

Captain Chaos

Vic_08 wrote: »

As overpriced as insurance premiums are, for someone to be quoted 6k they must have some very bad history. I have lots of sympathy when people are priced off the road arbitrarily (car over a certain age type nonsense) or because they have little experience but if the have multiple claims or driving convictions then the insurance company have every right to load policies as they are proven bad risks.

I was quoted over 6k last week as a first time driver at 31 years old on an 08 1l Fiesta. Only one company would quote me. I have a nothing they can load me on other than being new.

The system is just pricing first timers off the road or to drive un insured. I was told over the phone by Axa and Avia that they outright don't insure learner drivers starting off. It's like the bouncers on the door, sorry not tonight, regulars only. How do you become a regular.

I just had to accept it and pay the 6+ grand. The car is only worth 4k.

Cheensbo

Cheensbo wrote: »

So can the gardai seize a car that's being driven on a drivers 'extension/driving other cars' policy - because it has no disc?

What if the car doesn't have a policy directly attached to it, I occasionally drive a family hack that doesn't have a direct policy on it, but fulfils the criteria of my driving other cars clause in my insurance policy. Can I still be penalised despite my compliance with the law?

It's an offence to use a car in public that does not have an insurance disc displayed.

uck51js9zml2yt

bubblypop wrote: »

It's an offence to use a car in public that does not have an insurance disc displayed.

Also just to note, you can't tax your car if it's not insured, though I'm sure it wouldn't bother the person too much

Captain Chaos

Yousef Hallowed Minute wrote: »

Also just to note, you can't tax your car if it's not insured,

Yes you can. I did it myself while I was waiting on quotes from brokers.

Cheensbo

bubblypop wrote: »

It's an offence to use a car in public that does not have an insurance disc displayed.

Well that's a huge load of nonsense on everyone's behalf so, how can insurance companies offer illegal cover? What's the point of displaying a disc if it's in no way relevant to the current operation of the vehicle.

And yes, you can tax your car without insurance.

I shoulda stayed outta this thread

shietpilot

Cheensbo wrote: »

Well that's a huge load of nonsense on everyone's behalf so, how can insurance companies offer illegal cover? What's the point of displaying a disc if it's in no way relevant to the current operation of the vehicle.

And yes, you can tax your car without insurance.

I shoulda stayed outta this thread

You can get a €60 fine for not displaying an insurance disc if I recall correctly with no points. This is of course if you meet a Garda who really wants to do you and has nothing else to do you for

It really doesn't make sense because the disc is used as proof of insurance without the Garda having to look at your insurance certificate at checkpoints but sometimes they ask you to present your insurance certificate to a Garda station because the disc isn't enough proof...

allthedoyles

What if there is a valid insurance disk on windscreen display , but the car owner had a few direct debits refused .

You cannot always believe what you see .