Off Topic Thread 3.0

b.gud

For some reason I woke up this morning thinking of this song, so I thought I'd share it with you all

DGRulz

... What did I just watch? ...

dregin

hahaha, old school. Do they still do mass at Electric Picnic every year?

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

Mrs Brown's Boys is absolute muck.

I do believe that's the most sensible post I've seen from you.

awec

Wouldn't want to be someone who works in the ODCE for the next few weeks anyway.

Rigor Mortis

awec wrote: »

Wouldn't want to be someone who works in the ODCE for the next few weeks anyway.

It'll be unpleasant in the pub for the current crew, but the former head left ages ago and the lead investigator on this is already hung out to dry. A decent chance of prosecution on the destruction of evidence one would imagine.

i think there is a real issue for the DPP. Why this case was proceeded with when it is becoming pretty obvious that it was dead in the water two years ago.

It is a legacy of the Bert that all of these enforcement agencies were slimmed down to buttons. Not enough staff and the staff not properly resourced and qualified. We didn't do regulation and we didn't do enforcement. We have perfectly adequate laws in this country, but feck all people to enforce them.

awec

Yes I was wondering myself why we got all the way to this stage if the evidence was insufficient. Do they not do a pre-trial thing where they make sure there's a reasonable chance of conviction?

On the other hand, I was reading that the evidence was mishandled and witnesses were being coached? I am not a lawyer, but that's just incompetence, right?

errlloyd

awec wrote: »

On the other hand, I was reading that the evidence was mishandled and witnesses were being coached? I am not a lawyer, but that's just incompetence, right?

The coached witnesses were EY Partners. They were being coached by their lawyers so they didn't incriminate themselves! Which is a whole other kind or problematic.

Bazzo

awec wrote: »

Wouldn't want to be someone who works in the ODCE for the next few weeks anyway.

Farcical outcome

Dave_The_Sheep

It'd make you wonder why bother going to work in the morning.

Pure incompetence, admitted in sworn evidence to shredding the documents but ...there'll be no criminal case against O’Connell.

Infuriating for so many reasons.

thomond2006

Did anyone care to ask him why he destroyed those documents?

mfceiling

Surely Sean Fitz was a sitting duck? How was it fecked up?

DGRulz

RO'CK to the rescue again.

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Did anyone care to ask him why he destroyed those documents?

He didn't believe them to be of importance to the case. He has also claimed he has been suffering from mental health issues.

Business section on the radio this morning said there were whispers of the mental health claims up to two years ago and he had arranged appointments with professionals. Contrived and playing the long game to cover himself.

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

He didn't believe them to be of importance to the case.

That can't actually be a defence though? I'm sure they weren't running tragically short of filing space or anything.

Dave_The_Sheep

It might be a defence in this country. Accountability isn't really our thing.

Rigor Mortis

errlloyd wrote: »

The coached witnesses were EY Partners. They were being coached by their lawyers so they didn't incriminate themselves! Which is a whole other kind or problematic.

The sense of reporting is that their statements were being influenced by a range of people, including lawyers and members of the ODCE.

Rigor Mortis

mfceiling wrote: »

Surely Sean Fitz was a sitting duck? How was it fecked up?

This is the thing that gets me. I absolutely get that the judge was right to direct to acquit on the original trial. I didnt think he had a case to answer on Maple 10, but i really thought this was a slam dunk.

As an aside. If we want our enforcement bodies to compete in the courts, all of these groups need to be properly staffed with the best in the business. If you are going into court against the best legal teams, you need to have the best people. I know a number of people who have left these kind of enforcement bodies to make a lot more money in the private sector. Next time the Daily Mail goes looking at salaries in these bodies, ignore it. Although of course, incompetence when it is proven should be rewarded by being fired out of a canon aimed at the sun.

I say all that as a right wing, private sector working lacky.

awec

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

This is the thing that gets me. I absolutely get that the judge was right to direct to acquit on the original trial. I didnt think he had a case to answer on Maple 10, but i really thought this was a slam dunk.

As an aside. If we want our enforcement bodies to compete in the courts, all of these groups need to be properly staffed with the best in the business. If you are going into court against the best legal teams, you need to have the best people. I know a number of people who have left these kind of enforcement bodies to make a lot more money in the private sector. Next time the Daily Mail goes looking at salaries in these bodies, ignore it. Although of course, incompetence when it is proven should be rewarded by being fired out of a canon aimed at the sun.

I say all that as a right wing, private sector working lacky.

Can't just keep throwing money at it. To get the best in the under performers and endless middle management pencil pusher types would have to be let go first and we all know that is never going to happen.

Rigor Mortis

awec wrote: »

Can't just keep throwing money at it. To get the best in the under performers and endless middle management pencil pusher types would have to be let go first and we all know that is never going to happen.

For once I disagree. We should throw money at enforcement. For a period at least. Across a range of disciplines from Food safety, to Health and Safety to Environment to Corporate Enforcement, to Welfare & Revenue Fraud. Compliance comes through education and fear.

Nothing proves that more effectively than the LPT. Give it to the local authorities to enforce and you get 50% compliance, give it to Revenue and compliance hits 97%.

As I mentioned earlier, Ireland has no shortage of laws (in many cases cos they came from the EU), what we lack is enforcement. Enforcement costs money in the short term and saves a fortune in the long term.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

Can't just keep throwing money at it. To get the best in the under performers and endless middle management pencil pusher types would have to be let go first and we all know that is never going to happen.

You don't understand how this country works at all, do you? It's actually really simple:


Is there a problem and do we have money? Then throw money at the problem.

Is there a problem and are we strapped for cash? Then have a word with the EU to see if they can throw money at the problem.

Is the problem that we simply don't have money and can't get any from the EU? Then take money away from everything.


Actual analysis, problem identification, solution delivery etc are too long winded to be of political value. So, money.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

You don't understand how this country works at all, do you? It's actually really simple:


Is there a problem and do we have money? Then throw money at the problem.

Is there a problem and are we strapped for cash? Then have a word with the EU to see if they can throw money at the problem.

Is the problem that we simply don't have money and can't get any from the EU? Then take money away from everything.


Actual analysis, problem identification, solution delivery etc are too long winded to be of political value. So, money.

I think you're vastly vastly underappreciating the intelligence of some of the people involved. Which is a shame.

But ultimately, the answer is the same. If you think this way, I hope you do something about it, its the only way these problems get fixed. Took me too long to realise this and get active myself.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think you're vastly vastly underappreciating the intelligence of some of the people involved. Which is a shame.

But ultimately, the answer is the same. If you think this way, I hope you do something about it, its the only way these problems get fixed. Took me too long to realise this and get active myself.

I don't think intelligence is an issue at all, and haven't in any way shape or form made any comment on intelligence. I was also being flippant though so that isn't the sum total of my opinions, more a smart arsed and lazy summation of them.

I'm seriously disillusioned. But not with politicians or party politics or anything like that. I'm disillusioned with our electorate. Which is an entirely separate issue that I'm not sure can be fixed in the short to medium term, if at all.

Dave_The_Sheep

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm seriously disillusioned. But not with politicians or party politics or anything like that. I'm disillusioned with our electorate. Which is an entirely separate issue that I'm not sure can be fixed in the short to medium term, if at all.

Why not both?

molloyjh

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Why not both?

As in why am I not disillusioned with politicians as well as the electorate? Because politicians will just be a reflection of the electorate. If, for example, we're happy to reelect corrupt politicians we clearly send a message that we're okay with corruption. We set the standards, nobody else.

Podge_irl

molloyjh wrote: »

As in why am I not disillusioned with politicians as well as the electorate? Because politicians will just be a reflection of the electorate. If, for example, we're happy to reelect corrupt politicians we clearly send a message that we're okay with corruption. We set the standards, nobody else.

We're happy to elect our "own" corrupt politicians but are annoyed at other ones. At least that's the general impression I get.

I don't think Ireland is as bad as is so often made out ("Shure only in Ireland could you get away with that etc etc) or even close to be honest. But there is a certain acceptance of skullduggery and appreciation for getting one over on "the man" without realising "the man" is in fact us.*


*or to be more precise, you guys.

DGRulz

DGRulz wrote: »

RO'CK to the rescue again.

Ross O'Carroll Kelly?

Dave_The_Sheep

molloyjh wrote: »

As in why am I not disillusioned with politicians as well as the electorate? Because politicians will just be a reflection of the electorate. If, for example, we're happy to reelect corrupt politicians we clearly send a message that we're okay with corruption. We set the standards, nobody else.

Fair enough, though there's certainly an element of the options being total muck in a lot of cases.

I mean, Tipperary and Kerry aside, people might just be voting for the best of a bad lot.

irishbucsfan

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Fair enough, though there's certainly an element of the options being total muck in a lot of cases.

It certainly is an elemnt. And there's a good solution to that.

Zzippy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It certainly is an elemnt. And there's a good solution to that.

IBF for Taoiseach?