Irish bonus points for applied maths?

DownOneTourist

So I'm wondering if I will get bonus points for doing app math in Irish
For the exam name on the outside of my handout I wrote "Applied Maths". I then ticked the box for irish. I used irish words on my paper (ceist 1, ceist 2, am, luas). I'm wondering if that will get me bonus marks? Also if I got over 75 percent and I do qualify is it 5 per cent of the total marks that you get (although its decreases as you go up uniformly) or is it 5 percent of the marks that you didn't get? I.e will 75 percent become 80 percent or will it become 76.25 percent?

chris241111

lol

DownOneTourist

chris241111 wrote: »

lol

I honestly want to know.

rainbowtrout

From examinations.ie

Bonus marks at the rate of 5 per cent will be given to a candidate who obtains less than 75 per cent of the total marks in the case of the following subjects:- French, German, Italian, Spanish, Mathematics, Applied Mathematics, Accounting, Engineering, Construction Studies, Materials Technology (Wood), Metalwork, Junior Certificate Technology, Leaving Certificate Technology, Typewriting, Russian and Japanese.

Above 75 per cent the bonus will be subjected to a uniform reduction until the candidate who scores 100 per cent gets no bonus.

I have no idea what App Maths is marked out of (I think it's 300), but if you get 70/100 then you would get 5% of 70 which is 3.5 and would get 73.5 overall.

5% of 75 would be 3.75 which would give you 78.375

Above the 75 mark, bonus marks are awarded on a sliding scale, from 5% of your total score down to zero when you have scored 100%.

DownOneTourist

rainbowtrout wrote: »

From examinations.ie



I have no idea what App Maths is marked out of (I think it's 300), but if you get 70/100 then you would get 5% of 70 which is 3.5 and would get 73.5 overall.

5% of 75 would be 3.75 which would give you 78.375

Above the 75 mark, bonus marks are awarded on a sliding scale, from 5% of your total score down to zero when you have scored 100%.

so I think i got 77. therefore I got 77+(5(100-77)(1/25)=77+4.6=81.6?
but what i'm really wondering is if what i did was sufficient to get any bonus marks at all?
Has anyone here corrected lc app maths papers?

rainbowtrout

DownOneTourist wrote: »

so I think i got 77. therefore I got 77+(5(100-77)(1/25)=77+4.6=81.6?
but what i'm really wondering is if what i did was sufficient to get any bonus marks at all?
Has anyone here corrected lc app maths papers?

No.

First off, there's no point predicting your mark, you don't know what the marking scheme is like.

Second, where did you get that formula. Bonus marks are based on the marks you did get, not what you didn't get.

Third. If you got 75/100, 5% of that is 3.75. Realistically you can't get higher than that. I don't know what they sliding scale is but if you assumed it dropped 0.2% for each extra mark up to 100, then if you got 77/100, you would get a bonus of 4.6% of your total. 4.6% of 77 is 3.542

Yes, you can get lucky if you are near a grade band, eg, 68-69, 74, in this case 77, it can carry you into the next grade band, but without the scale do not get too carried away.

Remember percentages are not used in the LC, only marks.

So if your paper is marked out of 300, which Applied Maths is, 225/300 is 75% (b3), 224/300 is 74.66% and is a B3. There is no rounding in LC, you get your grade based on your mark not on a percentage.

spurious

If your school is not a Gaelscoil and you were not registered to do it in Irish and you were not given a paper in Irish*, your paper will go to a corrector for English language scripts.

You surely don't think it's as simple as writing 'ceist' in the margins, do you?


*The Superintendent will report if you were.

DownOneTourist

spurious wrote: »

If your school is not a Gaelscoil and you were not registered to do it in Irish and you were not given a paper in Irish*, your paper will go to a corrector for English language scripts.

You surely don't think it's as simple as writing 'ceist' in the margins, do you?


*The Superintendent will report if you were.

There's a box at the front of the paper that I also ticked. It asked are you doing it in english or irish. I ticked irish. You wouldn't need an degree in irish to work out that ceist 1 over question 1 means question and ceist 2 over question 2 means question 2. Further more I wrote no english. The irish words I wrote were literally just luas and am. I used them on a graph. Why shouldn't I get bonus marks. I did it irish only and I ticked irish at the front.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No.

First off, there's no point predicting your mark, you don't know what the marking scheme is like.

Second, where did you get that formula. Bonus marks are based on the marks you did get, not what you didn't get.

Third. If you got 75/100, 5% of that is 3.75. Realistically you can't get higher than that. I don't know what they sliding scale is but if you assumed it dropped 0.2% for each extra mark up to 100, then if you got 77/100, you would get a bonus of 4.6% of your total. 4.6% of 77 is 3.542

Yes, you can get lucky if you are near a grade band, eg, 68-69, 74, in this case 77, it can carry you into the next grade band, but without the scale do not get too carried away.

Remember percentages are not used in the LC, only marks.

So if your paper is marked out of 300, which Applied Maths is, 225/300 is 75% (b3), 224/300 is 74.66% and is a B3. There is no rounding in LC, you get your grade based on your mark not on a percentage.

makes sense thanks

rainbowtrout

DownOneTourist wrote: »

There's a box at the front of the paper that I also ticked. It asked are you doing it in english or irish. I ticked irish. You wouldn't need an degree in irish to work out that ceist 1 over question 1 means question and ceist 2 over question 2 means question 2. Further more I wrote no english. The irish words I wrote were literally just luas and am. I used them on a graph. Why shouldn't I get bonus marks. I did it irish only and I ticked irish at the front.

No, you didn't do it in Irish. To do it in Irish, you would have had to be given the paper in Irish, and understood all the questions in Irish and then answered it based on the fact that you would have been able to interpret an applied maths question written in Irish.

If you got an English paper and then just wrote, Ceist 1, and labelled your graph, you didn't do the paper through Irish. ffs.

DownOneTourist

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No, you didn't do it in Irish. To do it in Irish, you would have had to be given the paper in Irish, and understood all the questions in Irish and then answered it based on the fact that you would have been able to interpret an applied maths question written in Irish.

If you got an English paper and then just wrote, Ceist 1, and labelled your graph, you didn't do the paper through Irish. ffs.

I did the exam in irish. I didn't do it through irish but the paper i wrote has no english only irish. ffs

rainbowtrout

No. Having an English examination paper puts you at a distinct advantage over an Irish language candidate who was handed an Irish paper.

Gabhann téad éadrom dhoshínte thar ulóg bheag mhín
fhosaithe agus faoi bhun ulóg bheag mhín shoghluaiste,
ar mais di 14 kg, agus ansin thar ulóg bheag mhín
fhosaithe eile. Tá mais 5 kg ceangailte d’fhoirceann
amháin na téide agus mais 7 kg ceangailte den
fhoirceann eile.

From today's paper. Would you have known what do with with this question, if you had been given only the Irish paper? That is what answering it in Irish means. It's not just about writing down the answers because you had the English version.

DownOneTourist

"A candidate who answers in Irish at the written examination in the various subjects as set out below may be given bonus marks in addition to the marks gained in the subject." From the examanations.ie website. It only says about answering through irish. Can anyone at all give a source that says I NEED to have applied for an irish paper to get the irish bonus. Also, I know people who applied for irish papers, asked the superintendent for the english exam and got their bonus marks for answering through irish. Therefore in all cases you don't have to understand the paper through irish, you merely have to be able to answer it through irish. Nobody has answered my question with a source yet. Do I need to have registered for an irish paper to qualify for bonus marks?

TMJM96

DownOneTourist wrote: »

"A candidate who answers in Irish at the written examination in the various subjects as set out below may be given bonus marks in addition to the marks gained in the subject." From the examanations.ie website. It only says about answering through irish. Can anyone at all give a source that says I NEED to have applied for an irish paper to get the irish bonus. Also, I know people who applied for irish papers, asked the superintendent for the english exam and got their bonus marks for answering through irish. Therefore in all cases you don't have to understand the paper through irish, you merely have to be able to answer it through irish. Nobody has answered my question with a source yet. Do I need to have registered for an irish paper to qualify for bonus marks?

You have to go to an actual Gaelcholáiste to get the bonus Irish marks.

Unless you were given the paper in Irish and also English, you were just chancing it.

You need to have been registered.

spurious

DownOneTourist wrote: »

Also, I know people who applied for irish papers, asked the superintendent for the english exam and got their bonus marks for answering through irish. Therefore in all cases you don't have to understand the paper through irish, you merely have to be able to answer it through irish.

I would be very surprised if that is true.
Do you know what happens a paper in Irish if it shows up in an English packet?

TMJM96

spurious wrote: »

I would be very surprised if that is true.
Do you know what happens a paper in Irish if it shows up in an English packet?

I know people who went to a Gaelcholáiste who decided to answer an exam in English, they ticked the through English box while classmates answered through Irish and they're now in college with no trouble in their results. Sort of the inverse of the OP

I'm assuming the examiner would ignore it? It's Applied Maths (now, I didn't sit it) but it had to be almost all numerical solutions and no theory etc. required, right?

DownOneTourist

TMJM96 wrote: »

I know people who went to a Gaelcholáiste who decided to answer an exam in English, they ticked the through English box while classmates answered through Irish and they're now in college with no trouble in their results. Sort of the inverse of the OP

I'm assuming the examiner would ignore it? It's Applied Maths (now, I didn't sit it) but it had to be almost all numerical solutions and no theory etc. required, right?

literally two irish words on the paper. Either I get a bonus or I don't. Anyone who suggests that there is somehow repercussions for ticking a box is an idiot.

spurious wrote: »

I would be very surprised if that is true.

doubt away

rainbowtrout

TMJM96 wrote: »

I know people who went to a Gaelcholáiste who decided to answer an exam in English, they ticked the through English box while classmates answered through Irish and they're now in college with no trouble in their results. Sort of the inverse of the OP

I'm assuming the examiner would ignore it? It's Applied Maths (now, I didn't sit it) but it had to be almost all numerical solutions and no theory etc. required, right?

That's because Gaelscoil's get some of their funding based on the fact that they are Gaelscoil's and students are educated through the medium of Irish. Students do have the option of sitting the exam in English in these schools. They obviously don't get bonus marks. I'd imagine that some schools discourage the practice where others are more laissez faire about the whole thing.

DownOneTourist wrote: »

literally two irish words on the paper. Either I get a bonus or I don't. Anyone who suggests that there is somehow repercussions for ticking a box is an idiot.

You seem fond of insulting people who are telling you that you won't get the bonus marks. Experienced examiners and teachers. Your school wasn't registered for students to take exams in Irish. You weren't registered to sit the exam in Irish. You sat the exam in English.

DownOneTourist

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You seem fond of insulting people who are telling you that you won't get the bonus marks. Experienced examiners and teachers. Your school wasn't registered for students to take exams in Irish. You weren't registered to sit the exam in Irish. You sat the exam in English.

Remind me... who here has corrected an app math paper?

rainbowtrout

DownOneTourist wrote: »

Remind me... who here has corrected an app math paper?

You do realise that the same rules regarding sitting exams through Irish apply across all Leaving Cert subjects and applied maths is not a special case???

DownOneTourist

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You do realise that the same rules regarding sitting exams through Irish apply across all Leaving Cert subjects and applied maths is not a special case???

You do realise you haven't given me a source? Or don't you? Can you find a source that says you can't get bonus irish marks if you didn't apply for the paper? Or no?

TallGlass

DownOneTourist wrote: »

Remind me... who here has corrected an app math paper?

Listen, you know what the best thing you can do is, give the DOE a call and see what they have to say in the matter.

Was there English wrote on the paper you took? Yes. You decided to answer in Irish for some bizarre reason, might as-well as been Polish. Your paper is going to be flagged now, as the examiner won't go near it. He might speak Irish, but you know what? He isn't getting paid extra for that type of examination. Then it will be concluded you haven't gotten an Irish paper for the test you decided to take. So if anything you've just caused a delay in your exam been marked.

If it was that easy, maths/english/any teacher been showing students how to answer in Irish while reading the paper in English. Classic.

DownOneTourist

TallGlass wrote: »

If it was that easy, maths/english/any teacher been showing students how to answer in Irish while reading the paper in English. Classic.

But that's exactly it. My app math teacher (outside school) told me this. All you you have to do is tick irish at the front and draw the examiner's attention to it by writing a few words in irish. He told me loads of people do it and that it's allowed as it increases the number of people supposedly doing papers through irish and that is used for eu statistics. I've got no idea whether that was total bs or not. I've been looking for sources for hours but can't find anything for or against it. I can't think of a reason why he would make it up. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. So right now it's easier to assume it's true (in my own mind) until someone can come along with a source to prove it's bs.

YFlyer

Can't you ask for both English version and Irish version of the exam paper if you ask?

TMJM96

YFlyer wrote: »

Can't you ask for both English version and Irish version of the exam paper if you ask?

You must first be registered to do the exam in Irish. This is done automatically in a Gaelcholáiste. Yes, you can ask for the paper in both Irish and English however the paper must be answered in Irish, fully. The English paper is provided in case a student doesn't know a particular word (especially in the lab sciences or practical subjects which sometimes have modern terms that may not be in the textbook)

Mr Rhode Island Red

I've heard stories about bribes being slipped into exam papers, notes being smuggled in and people bringing in phones and iPods in last-ditch attempts to bring up their marks.

This is the best I've heard yet.

rainbowtrout

DownOneTourist wrote: »

But that's exactly it. My app math teacher (outside school) told me this. All you you have to do is tick irish at the front and draw the examiner's attention to it by writing a few words in irish. He told me loads of people do it and that it's allowed as it increases the number of people supposedly doing papers through irish and that is used for eu statistics. I've got no idea whether that was total bs or not. I've been looking for sources for hours but can't find anything for or against it. I can't think of a reason why he would make it up. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. So right now it's easier to assume it's true (in my own mind) until someone can come along with a source to prove it's bs.

It's bull.

No examiner is going to come on here and provide you with a source.



I've listened to an unbelievable amount of waffle coming from students that have been to grinds teachers/christmas revision courses/ classes outside school. They prefer to take what their grinds teachers said as the word of god because they are paying for tuition. On so many occasions what they have come back to me and said has been a load of horseshit.

So let's take your scenario through it's natural course. Basically your grinds teacher has told you that tick the box, write down a few irish words, you'll get free bonus points.

Now we ask the important questions? Is you app maths teacher an app maths examiner, and does he correct through Irish? Because if both of those things are true and you know them to be true then you have no reason to doubt him. On the other hand, if he doesn't correct (through English or Irish) then he has no idea how things are done during corrections.

And if it was true why isn't this a widespread practice in maths. There's 60,000 people sitting the subject, could be a few handy extra points for writing very little Irish.

So you take him at his word. You apply to view your exam in August. You notice you haven't got any bonus marks for Irish, from writing down Ceist 1, which has nothing to do with answering in Irish for the way, in the same way as you don't get marks for writing your name. You challenge him on it, and he comes up with more bull about 'oh they probably have a minimum amount of words you need to write on the exam to get the bonus' Sure how are you going to know any better.

DownOneTourist

" Is you app maths teacher an app maths examiner, and does he correct through Irish?"
Well I don't know that. So I would definitely like to hear from someone who has.
"No examiner is going to come on here and provide you with a source. "
so it seems

rainbowtrout

DownOneTourist wrote: »

" Is you app maths teacher an app maths examiner, and does he correct through Irish?"
Well I don't know that. So I would definitely like to hear from someone who has.
"No examiner is going to come on here and provide you with a source. "
so it seems

Examiners would be bound by confidentiality. They are not going to discuss marking online anywhere.

Also, if your app maths teacher was an examiner he would have told you so. It would be one of his selling points to market himself 'I'm an examiner in this subject, so I know what I'm talking about' type thing.

Given that only about 1500 students sit applied maths, I'd say there's only a handful of examiners.

TallGlass

DownOneTourist wrote: »

But that's exactly it. My app math teacher (outside school) told me this. All you you have to do is tick irish at the front and draw the examiner's attention to it by writing a few words in irish. He told me loads of people do it and that it's allowed as it increases the number of people supposedly doing papers through irish and that is used for eu statistics. I've got no idea whether that was total bs or not. I've been looking for sources for hours but can't find anything for or against it. I can't think of a reason why he would make it up. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. So right now it's easier to assume it's true (in my own mind) until someone can come along with a source to prove it's bs.

Listen, ring the DOE and they will give you an answer straight away. Personally, not a chance this would be allowed happen. If you read in English you answer in English. I mean, you couldn't answer an Irish exam in English and get marks.

But seriously, ring the DOE.

DownOneTourist

TallGlass wrote: »

Listen, ring the DOE and they will give you an answer straight away. Personally, not a chance this would be allowed happen. If you read in English you answer in English. I mean, you couldn't answer an Irish exam in English and get marks.

But seriously, ring the DOE.

I just emailed the Minister@education.gov.ie Fingers crossed lol:D:D

rainbowtrout

DownOneTourist wrote: »

I just emailed the Minister@education.gov.ie Fingers crossed lol:D:D

The minister for education?? Richard Bruton will no more care about your query than the dogs on the street. That's like asking the Minister for the Environment if he knows the schedule for bin collection for your street.

The SEC deal with exams. If you want to ask someone about the exams ask the SEC.