Season 6 Episode 9 "Battle of the Bastards" - "Book readers"

Nody

Pre empting the upcoming episode post by including some highlights from the charter. I'll try to set up each episode in advance each week; thread will be unlocked on Sunday evening.

This is ONLY about the specific episode! No information from any interviews etc. are allowed to be posted but book related information is allowed as well as the lore from the DVDs. Anything relating to interviews can be posted with a spoiler tag.


In addition anyone picking up 3 yellow cards will be banned from the forum for the current season; in case of serious enough transgressions the ban may come earlier than 3 cards

Thread will be unlocked on Sunday evening.

wp_rathead

It's open! I dunno where to begin!!

Loved that the man who was continually referred to as a Mad Dog by his father was in the end killed by his mad dogs..
..also his remarks off "my beasts are loyal" reminded me of how he used to torment Theon saying "you'll never betray me, will you Reek?"- his sadism almost blinding him..

Also, with Theon having helped Sansa escape and her being the one to let the hounds on Ramsay you could say Theon did kill that "horn blowing coont" in a roundabout way..

Oh, and jaysus the claustrophobia when Jon getting trampled

And that face by Davos when he found the Wooden Stag he had carved Shireen

jcd5971

When the Knights of the Vale charged and John went after ramsay I realised I was shaking my fist in an oh yes moment, everything good about got in 1 episode

J. Marston

wp_rathead wrote: »

It's open! I dunno where to begin!!

Loved that the man who was continually referred to as a Mad Dog by his father was in the end killed by his mad dogs..
..also his remarks off "my beasts are loyal" reminded me of how he used to torment Theon saying "you'll never betray me, will you Reek?"- his sadism almost blinding him..

Also, with Theon having helped Sansa escape and her being the one to let the hounds on Ramsay you could say Theon did kill that "horn blowing coont" in a roundabout way..

Oh, and jaysus the claustrophobia when Jon getting trampled

And that face by Davos when he found the Wooden Stag he had carved Shireen

Nice little bookend to his character that the Knights of the Vale horn signalled the beginning of the end for him.

Washington Irving

Hearing the horn of the Riders of Rohan Knights of The Vale was one the most satisfying moments of the show, even more impressive given we all knew it was coming. Ramsay being savaged by his hounds probably number one.

Episode is an absolutely incredible achievement in terms of cinematography.

That was immense, I'm wrecked after watching it. Some of those scenes during the Winterfell battle were extremely claustrophobic. Where we got the swashbuckling, fantastical opening of dragons (those beautiful dragons) in flight over the battle of Meereen, the scenes at Winterfell were brutal and realistic. Not since Saving Private Ryan have I seen the horrors of war captured so effectively on film. Such a battle scene to show the effectiveness of cavalry.

Ramsey is a true coward, and as well as getting to see him receive a fairly satisfying comeuppance, seeing Jon make bits of him at the parley pre-battle was nice too. Not as 'nice' though as seeing Ramsey get his face smashed into the dirt and his subsequent reunion with his starving hounds. Fair play to Jon for not being greedy, loved how he stops and looks towards Sansa after smashing Ramsey for a bit - "Oh right, sorry, you want some of this too."

Sansa was great in this episode. When the Knights of the Vale appeared in true 'At dawn, look to the east' fashion, I got goose-pimples watching them sweep in as Sansa oversaw from the hill. Later, her 'Your name will die, your house will die, there will be no memory of you' to Ramsey was brutal, just the right starter for the main course that would proceed it. As Sansa walked away from the dying Ramsey, the smile on her face was perfect. Even the way it was shot, half of her face was in the dark and the other half in the light to reinforce the fact that although she is a good person, there is a dark-side there, one which would feed another human alive to a pack of dogs.

Poor Rickon. I was more upset over Wun Wun, but from the moment Ramsey untied Rickon and told him to run, we knew what was coming. Should Rickon maybe have zig-zagged a bit as he ran for his life? Of course, but his days on the show were numbered and he had to die to increase the stakes even more. I'm just happy he wasn't flayed and the death itself was relatively quick. As for Wun Wun, he went out like a champ, Hodor-style. Speaking of which, Wun Wun's dying act was breaking a door down, Hodor's was holding one shut. Nice parallel between the 'giant' characters who went out this season.

I'm happy that Davos and Tormund survived, and little Lyanna Mormont too by the look of it. The shot of Davos standing by the remains of Shireen's pyre against the backdrop of the sunrise was just another one of many beautiful shots in this episode. No doubt, Davos is going to be at the least having words with Melissandre soon.

Mereen was actually captivating for a change. Dany has ships and control of her dragons now, finally. Her scenes with Yara and the chemistry between the two was good. Formal talk, acknowledgment of things in common, even a bit of flirting, but when it came time to shake on the deal, Dany was very direct in her terms. I'm actually looking forward to seeing more from Mereen. Special mention to Grey Worm's double throat slit fatality on the Masters too.

That'll do for now. It really was such a satisfying and exhilarating episode with several great moments. Seeing the Stark banners hung at Winterfell once again was one of those moments. Right now, the best episode of the series so far for me, nudging Hardhomme. It promised a lot and delivered on those promises.

Washington Irving

stankratz wrote: »

Should Rickon maybe have zig-zagged a bit as he ran for his life?

EagererBeaver

Very satisfying indeed. Disappointed Ghost didn't get a go on Ramsay as I thought that would have been a nice parallel - Jon has his own beast. Thought there was going to be an Umber face turn.

Rickon had to die and the show loses nothing with his loss. Suppose one of Tormund and Wun Wun had to go as well.

Meereen was good as well. Even Grey Worm did something!

RobbingBandit

****e, absolute ****e after all that waiting a two minute battle of Meereen, booooooooooooooooooooooo.

All hail the savior of the north Lord Petyr Baelish, looks like there will be three queens soon. Queen in the North Sansa. Yara and Dany. Feminists rejoice.

I am not convinced that was Rickon, I think they have gone with a mute as he didn't speak a word in any of his on screen scenes at all. Seems strange as my guess was it was Wex but Ramsay killed him back in season two.

Daith

This was good but not not fantastic I thought

* Yes Dany being in a predicament then going "Well I've a Dragon" to get herself out of it was overused but this was the first time we've seen her really in control of Drogon on the battlefield. It was nice.

* The scenes with Dany and the Iron Born was great. Nice to see Tyrion care about Bran and Rickon actually. I'm positive Euron will end up with control of at least one Dragon which ends up with Dany marrying him.

* Rickon. The second he was brought out I knew he was dead. Sansa was spot on that Ramsey had to kill Rickon (and not for Jon to fall into Ramsey's trap).

* The bit where Jon's army are being blended like they're in a Nutribullet ouch. Felt claustrophobic when Jon was buried.

* Saw some people calling the Vale a Deus Ex Machina. That term is really misunderstood.

*Yes Sansa should have told Jon about the Vale but I don't think she could be sure LF was to be trusted. Like to see where this goes. Is Sansa the Lady of Winterfell now?

*Really wanted to see Ghost kill Ramsey. Would have been perfect.

Son0vagun

Where was Ghost? That was my only problem with the episode. And what a episode it was. Has to be the great battle ever fought on TV. It was just immense.

Daith

Son0vagun wrote: »

Where was Ghost? That was my only problem with the episode. And what a episode it was. Has to be the great battle ever fought on TV. It was just immense.

Lack of Direwolves throughout the series has been annoying but I'd imagine Ghost would have been a gonner in the battle.

In the non book reader thread they mentioned having the hounds chasing Rickon. That could have been a fun Ghost fight.

Or just have a shot of Ghost around Sansa and Lyanna Mormont. Something!

awec

That was bloody brilliant.

The battle scenes were incredible.

Daith

It's a pity Rickon didn't have Faceless Man training. He'd be grand.

EagererBeaver

Daith wrote: »

It's a pity Rickon didn't have Faceless Man training. He'd be grand.

Bravo, that one just made me choke on my coffee!

wp_rathead

Daith wrote: »

It's a pity Rickon didn't have Faceless Man training. He'd be grand.

Or any of Lady Crane's soup

SB_Part2

Great episode.

I'm still not really sure what is going on with Meereen. The scenes with Yara and Theon were good, though.

I felt very claustrophobic watching the battle scene. Absolutely delighted that the hounds turned on Ramsey. The view of his hand sent shivers up my spine.

Daith

wp_rathead wrote: »

Or any of Lady Crane's soup

Arya could have wheeled in singing "Oysters, clams and cockles", fighting would have stopped and Rickon would be fine.

Tenger

RobbingBandit wrote: »

.........Iam not convinced that was Rickon, I think they have gone with a mute as he didn't speak a word in any of his on screen scenes at all. Seems strange as my guess was it was Wex but Ramsay killed him back in season two.

Im not sure how you think that it CANT be Rickon. Theres not ambiguity there.


That death definitely ruined the "Rickon on Skagos" theory from the books. (And his development into an old school Stark)
Of course this could still happen in time in the Books.

Daith

Tenger wrote: »

Im not sure how it CANT be Rickon.

It is. The show really just goes with the most simplest explanation.

Also....Ramsey's child could become Lord of Winterfell. Imagine!

awec

Rickon was a bit of a pointless character in the TV series. He's just "the other" Stark child who never does anything of consequence.

Tenger

awec wrote: »

Rickon was a bit of a pointless character in the TV series. He's just "the other" Stark child who never does anything of consequence.

Thats a bit unfair to the kid. He was just a kid after all. In the books we get to see how he cant understand whats going on around him as the youngest Stark.
The TV series 'inherited' a vast array of characters and just didnt have the opportunity to do anything with them. The books so far have 31 POV characters and Rickon idnt even one of those.

Daith

awec wrote: »

Rickon was a bit of a pointless character in the TV series. He's just "the other" Stark child who never does anything of consequence.

It's not even a shaggydog story as we don't see Rickon that much in the series.

FURET

It was visually very impressive. But I don't think the scale of the battle was proportional to the pay-off. All other battles seen so far were transformative from a story-telling point of view. They changed the characters involved. This battle didn't change anyone (Sansa and Jon had already evolved); it was just a way to get rid of Ramsey and Rickon while placating the viewers by providing a battle. It was also very predictable. Three times now we've had last-minute rescues in battles:

1. The Tyrells and Tywin to save Kings Landing from Stannis
2. Stannis to save the Nights Watch from the Wildlings
3. Littlefinger to save Jon and Sansa from the Boltons

...and we almost all knew that Ramsey would be killed by dogs.

Great cinematography, but the story itself is a little hollow at this stage.

Visually, that episode was fantastic.
Story wise, it was predictable. I dont know who the blame lies with. Is it GRRM or D&D?
I think the show is suffering so much from not having any source material to follow anymore.

I'm not sure what they could have done to make the episode unpredictable, but i'm not a writer.

That scene where Jon was trapped was magnificently done

Still think Battle of Blackwater was the best battle story on television. And that probably goes back to the fact that they had source material to use. There was so many sub-plots in that episode.
Cersei and Tommon in the throne room
The wildfire
Tyrion taking lead of the army
Tyrion being betrayed by the Kings Guard
Stannis refusing to accept defeat
The Lannisters and Tyrells saving the day in the last minute.

I just think this episode missed having small sideplots like those

awec

It's the story that pretty much everyone wanted. Not everything has to be a big surprise IMO.

It was certainly one of the most entertaining episodes, I don't see how it can be described as "hollow". They've even spent two seasons building up to it with backstory. As for not changing anyone, I believe both Jon and Sansa will evolve further now that they are running the show at Winterfell. How is Sansa going to deal with the houses that refused to help? What is she going to do with Littlefinger? What does she do with Jon? What will the response be from King's Landing?

The battle opens up so many storylines for those two.

In this case I am glad they went down the route they did, rather than try and make something unpredictable but that doesn't really fit with the backstory and behaviours of the characters.

lawlolawl

awec wrote: »

It's the story that pretty much everyone wanted. Not everything has to be a big surprise IMO.

The difference is that the show has no real surprises left in it any more because all the fan favorite characters have impenetrable plot armor now. Not very interesting or impacting to see minor characters dying off.

This season has been a bit of a damp squib for me.

awec

lawlolawl wrote: »

The difference is that the show has no real surprises left in it any more because all the fan favorite characters have impenetrable plot armor now. Not very interesting or impacting to see minor characters dying off.

This season has been a bit of a damp squib for me.

I still think we'll see some major characters die, probably when we least expect it.

Doesn't mean it has to happen all the time though.

The scene when Jon was getting trampled, I was actually starting to worry that they were going to kill him off again. I'd have been raging. It would have been surprising but also really stupid and annoying.

CMOTDibbler

FURET wrote: »

It was visually very impressive. But I don't think the scale of the battle was proportional to the pay-off. All other battles seen so far were transformative from a story-telling point of view. They changed the characters involved. This battle didn't change anyone (Sansa and Jon had already evolved); it was just a way to get rid of Ramsey and Rickon while placating the viewers by providing a battle.

The unpredictability is who would survive. As Melisandre said, Jon could just have been resurrected for this battle. The point is that the North is now controlled by people who recognise the threat of the White Walkers. Bolton would never have seen that as a threat. Ramsay was just another parochially minded Lord who only saw to the limit of his own ambitions.

Cersei and Ellaria are two more who will doubtless meet the same ends. Dany doesn't know anything about that threat yet, but Tyrion does have some knowledge of it.

lawlolawl

awec wrote: »

I still think we'll see some major characters die, probably when we least expect it.

Doesn't mean it has to happen all the time though.

The scene when Jon was getting trampled, I was actually starting to worry that they were going to kill him off again. I'd have been raging. It would have been surprising but also really stupid and annoying.

Nah, Jon will be around for a good while yet.

I'd go as far as saying that Rickon is the last Stark that will die in the show and they only used his death as a plot device for this episode because he didn't matter, on account of most people forgetting he even existed.

EagererBeaver

awec wrote: »

The scene when Jon was getting trampled, I was actually starting to worry that they were going to kill him off again. I'd have been raging. It would have been surprising but also really stupid and annoying.

What is dead may never die.

irishguitarlad

Way too predictable.

JoeyJJ

EagererBeaver wrote: »

What is dead may never die.

Didn't work out too well for the late king of the Iron islands.

Falthyron

"Killed by a fookin' Wildling" - Smalljon Umber, 19/6/2016.

Tigger

Falthyron wrote: »

"Killed by a fookin' Wildling" - Smalljon Umber, 19/5/2016.

??

rawn

Tigger wrote:

??

Smalljon Umber was killed by a fookin wildling

Savage Tyrant

Really enjoyed the episode.... Little bit annoyed we didn't get any of the northern lords turning on the Bolton army .... I even thought the it was being foreshadowed when Jon said something about the houses seeing the tide of the battle turning.
Books wise I had always suspected Rickon was going to finish the story as the Lord of Winterfell, so a little disappointed that he died.
Overall though I very much enjoyed it.

Dravokivich

rawn wrote: »

Smalljon Umber was killed by a fookin wildling

A month ago?

Daith

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Really enjoyed the episode.... Little bit annoyed we didn't get any of the northern lords turning on the Bolton army .... I even thought the it was being foreshadowed when Jon said something about the houses seeing the tide of the battle turning.
Books wise I had always suspected Rickon was going to finish the story as the Lord of Winterfell, so a little disappointed that he died.
Overall though I very much enjoyed it.

I'm surprised the Northern Houses didn't make much of a deal of Ramsey killing Rickon Stark.

Though I guess one of the themes if that the old ways are being destroyed and we're moving into a different era.

lawlolawl

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Really enjoyed the episode.... Little bit annoyed we didn't get any of the northern lords turning on the Bolton army .... I even thought the it was being foreshadowed when Jon said something about the houses seeing the tide of the battle turning.

That was a really inconsistent bit.

They actually fought to the last man despite Ramsay brutally murdering Rickon and then having his archers indiscriminately fire at both his own troops and Jons.

Mr.Prodston

So the North didn't remember then? I guess D&D didn't want to sully the good name of Wyman Manderly by including him the plot that did their best to decimate the Starks like the Umbers did....

The cinematography in the episode was top notch.

It was a great episode for what it was and the battles were great and Dany didn't annoy me. Asha the little minx trying it on with her too. Greyworm finally did something too although no Barristan makes me sad, even now!

Sansa was fantastic and Sophie Turner is doing a really good job. However if Sansa had, you know, told Jon that she had sent word to Vale about an army at that was at their disposal then perhaps the butchery might have much less. I hope that's addressed or are we just to interpret it as her not trusting Baelish? I suppose she could in part represent LS as that final scene was, cold!.

Poor Rickon I really thought he was going to be more important than being shot down like that. I wonder what happens in the books though? Is he at Skagos at all?

It's delicately poised now:

Ice marching down from the North. Fire (presumably) marching over from the other direction.

What does the North do about their impending problem? What does Dany do with all that is now at her disposal? Will there be much of anything standing in between in Westeros? (Yes the old wildfire stash was nicely shoehorned into Tyrion and Dany's little chat wasn't it? :pac:)

rawn

Dravokivich wrote:

A month ago?

I assume Smalljon was just killed by Thormund?

Falthyron

rawn wrote: »

I assume Smalljon was just killed by Thormund?

Yes. Yes, he was. Fookin' wildlings!

rawn

lawlolawl wrote:

They actually fought to the last man despite Ramsay brutally murdering Rickon and then having his archers indiscriminately fire at both his own troops and Jons.

It makes me wonder what the Starks will do with the houses of the North that brought Rickon to Ramsey and fought against them? I reckon they'll just have to forgive everyone seeing as numbers are seriously depleted in the North and there's still the White Walkers

Falthyron

R.I.P. - Taken before his time.

CMOTDibbler

rawn wrote: »

It makes me wonder what the Starks will do with the houses of the North that brought Rickon to Ramsey and fought against them? I reckon they'll just have to forgive everyone seeing as numbers are seriously depleted in the North and there's still the White Walkers

There may well be rewards for those who stood with Jon and Sansa. Lyanna Mormont may end up with a much larger domain. The Umber, Karstark and Bolton lands will all be up for grabs I suspect.

rawn

CMOTDibbler wrote:

There may well be rewards for those who stood with Jon and Sansa. Lyana Mormont may end up with a much larger domain. The Umber, Karstark and Bolton lands will all be up for grabs I suspect.

I would love to see more of Lyanna Mormont so i hope that's true! Umbers will be in the most trouble i reckon. Techically Sansa inherits the Bolton lands... I'm also 90% sure she's pregnant from her conversation with Ramsey

CMOTDibbler

rawn wrote: »

I would love to see more of Lyanna Mormont so i hope that's true! Umbers will be in the most trouble i reckon. Techically Sansa inherits the Bolton lands... I'm also 90% sure she's pregnant from her conversation with Ramsey

I somehow doubt the pregnancy thing. What he said could be interpreted as such but I read it as him being inside her head. Or so he hoped. Fruitlessly.

Daith

rawn wrote: »

I would love to see more of Lyanna Mormont so i hope that's true! Umbers will be in the most trouble i reckon. Techically Sansa inherits the Bolton lands... I'm also 90% sure she's pregnant from her conversation with Ramsey

It was nice seeing Lyanna Mormont there with Jon and Sansa. Agree re Sansa being pregnant.

Sansa did talk about what she would do to the Umbers and Karstarks didn't she?

Dravokivich

rawn wrote: »

I assume Smalljon was just killed by Thormund?

The comment on the death was dated 19/05/2016. That's what Tigger was questioning.

EagererBeaver

rawn wrote: »

It makes me wonder what the Starks will do with the houses of the North that brought Rickon to Ramsey and fought against them? I reckon they'll just have to forgive everyone seeing as numbers are seriously depleted in the North and there's still the White Walkers

I'm not sure the Starks have much left to do anything with anything. Littlefinger will likely be the one making the decisions.