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Season 6 Episode 9 "Battle of the Bastards" - "Book readers"

Nody

Pre empting the upcoming episode post by including some highlights from the charter. I'll try to set up each episode in advance each week; thread will be unlocked on Sunday evening.

This is ONLY about the specific episode! No information from any interviews etc. are allowed to be posted but book related information is allowed as well as the lore from the DVDs. Anything relating to interviews can be posted with a spoiler tag.

In addition anyone picking up 3 yellow cards will be banned from the forum for the current season; in case of serious enough transgressions the ban may come earlier than 3 cards

Thread will be unlocked on Sunday evening.

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Mr.Prodston

So the North didn't remember then? I guess D&D didn't want to sully the good name of Wyman Manderly by including him the plot that did their best to decimate the Starks like the Umbers did....

The cinematography in the episode was top notch.

It was a great episode for what it was and the battles were great and Dany didn't annoy me. Asha the little minx trying it on with her too. Greyworm finally did something too although no Barristan makes me sad, even now!

Sansa was fantastic and Sophie Turner is doing a really good job. However if Sansa had, you know, told Jon that she had sent word to Vale about an army at that was at their disposal then perhaps the butchery might have much less. I hope that's addressed or are we just to interpret it as her not trusting Baelish? I suppose she could in part represent LS as that final scene was, cold!.

Poor Rickon

I really thought he was going to be more important than being shot down like that. I wonder what happens in the books though? Is he at Skagos at all?

It's delicately poised now:

Ice marching down from the North. Fire (presumably) marching over from the other direction.

What does the North do about their impending problem? What does Dany do with all that is now at her disposal? Will there be much of anything standing in between in Westeros? (Yes the old wildfire stash was nicely shoehorned into Tyrion and Dany's little chat wasn't it? :pac:)

lawlolawl

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Really enjoyed the episode.... Little bit annoyed we didn't get any of the northern lords turning on the Bolton army .... I even thought the it was being foreshadowed when Jon said something about the houses seeing the tide of the battle turning.

That was a really inconsistent bit.

They actually fought to the last man despite Ramsay brutally murdering Rickon and then having his archers indiscriminately fire at both his own troops and Jons.

Daith

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Really enjoyed the episode.... Little bit annoyed we didn't get any of the northern lords turning on the Bolton army .... I even thought the it was being foreshadowed when Jon said something about the houses seeing the tide of the battle turning.
Books wise I had always suspected Rickon was going to finish the story as the Lord of Winterfell, so a little disappointed that he died.
Overall though I very much enjoyed it.

I'm surprised the Northern Houses didn't make much of a deal of Ramsey killing Rickon Stark.

Though I guess one of the themes if that the old ways are being destroyed and we're moving into a different era.

Dravokivich

rawn wrote: »

Smalljon Umber was killed by a fookin wildling

A month ago?

Savage Tyrant

Really enjoyed the episode.... Little bit annoyed we didn't get any of the northern lords turning on the Bolton army .... I even thought the it was being foreshadowed when Jon said something about the houses seeing the tide of the battle turning.
Books wise I had always suspected Rickon was going to finish the story as the Lord of Winterfell, so a little disappointed that he died.
Overall though I very much enjoyed it.

rawn

Tigger wrote:

??

Smalljon Umber was killed by a fookin wildling

Tigger

Falthyron wrote: »

"Killed by a fookin' Wildling" - Smalljon Umber, 19/5/2016.

Falthyron

"Killed by a fookin' Wildling" - Smalljon Umber, 19/6/2016.

JoeyJJ

EagererBeaver wrote: »

What is dead may never die.

Didn't work out too well for the late king of the Iron islands.

irishguitarlad

Way too predictable.

EagererBeaver

awec wrote: »

The scene when Jon was getting trampled, I was actually starting to worry that they were going to kill him off again. I'd have been raging. It would have been surprising but also really stupid and annoying.

What is dead may never die.

lawlolawl

awec wrote: »

I still think we'll see some major characters die, probably when we least expect it.

Doesn't mean it has to happen all the time though.

The scene when Jon was getting trampled, I was actually starting to worry that they were going to kill him off again. I'd have been raging. It would have been surprising but also really stupid and annoying.

Nah, Jon will be around for a good while yet.

I'd go as far as saying that Rickon is the last Stark that will die in the show and they only used his death as a plot device for this episode because he didn't matter, on account of most people forgetting he even existed.

CMOTDibbler

FURET wrote: »

It was visually very impressive. But I don't think the scale of the battle was proportional to the pay-off. All other battles seen so far were transformative from a story-telling point of view. They changed the characters involved. This battle didn't change anyone (Sansa and Jon had already evolved); it was just a way to get rid of Ramsey and Rickon while placating the viewers by providing a battle.

The unpredictability is who would survive. As Melisandre said, Jon could just have been resurrected for this battle. The point is that the North is now controlled by people who recognise the threat of the White Walkers. Bolton would never have seen that as a threat. Ramsay was just another parochially minded Lord who only saw to the limit of his own ambitions.

Cersei and Ellaria are two more who will doubtless meet the same ends. Dany doesn't know anything about that threat yet, but Tyrion does have some knowledge of it.

awec

lawlolawl wrote: »

The difference is that the show has no real surprises left in it any more because all the fan favorite characters have impenetrable plot armor now. Not very interesting or impacting to see minor characters dying off.

This season has been a bit of a damp squib for me.

I still think we'll see some major characters die, probably when we least expect it.

Doesn't mean it has to happen all the time though.

The scene when Jon was getting trampled, I was actually starting to worry that they were going to kill him off again. I'd have been raging. It would have been surprising but also really stupid and annoying.

lawlolawl

awec wrote: »

It's the story that pretty much everyone wanted. Not everything has to be a big surprise IMO.

The difference is that the show has no real surprises left in it any more because all the fan favorite characters have impenetrable plot armor now. Not very interesting or impacting to see minor characters dying off.

This season has been a bit of a damp squib for me.

awec

It's the story that pretty much everyone wanted. Not everything has to be a big surprise IMO.

It was certainly one of the most entertaining episodes, I don't see how it can be described as "hollow". They've even spent two seasons building up to it with backstory. As for not changing anyone, I believe both Jon and Sansa will evolve further now that they are running the show at Winterfell. How is Sansa going to deal with the houses that refused to help? What is she going to do with Littlefinger? What does she do with Jon? What will the response be from King's Landing?

The battle opens up so many storylines for those two.

In this case I am glad they went down the route they did, rather than try and make something unpredictable but that doesn't really fit with the backstory and behaviours of the characters.

[Deleted User]

Visually, that episode was fantastic.
Story wise, it was predictable. I dont know who the blame lies with. Is it GRRM or D&D?
I think the show is suffering so much from not having any source material to follow anymore.

I'm not sure what they could have done to make the episode unpredictable, but i'm not a writer.

That scene where Jon was trapped was magnificently done

Still think Battle of Blackwater was the best battle story on television. And that probably goes back to the fact that they had source material to use. There was so many sub-plots in that episode.
Cersei and Tommon in the throne room
The wildfire
Tyrion taking lead of the army
Tyrion being betrayed by the Kings Guard
Stannis refusing to accept defeat
The Lannisters and Tyrells saving the day in the last minute.

I just think this episode missed having small sideplots like those

FURET

It was visually very impressive. But I don't think the scale of the battle was proportional to the pay-off. All other battles seen so far were transformative from a story-telling point of view. They changed the characters involved. This battle didn't change anyone (Sansa and Jon had already evolved); it was just a way to get rid of Ramsey and Rickon while placating the viewers by providing a battle. It was also very predictable. Three times now we've had last-minute rescues in battles:

1. The Tyrells and Tywin to save Kings Landing from Stannis
2. Stannis to save the Nights Watch from the Wildlings
3. Littlefinger to save Jon and Sansa from the Boltons

...and we almost all knew that Ramsey would be killed by dogs.

Great cinematography, but the story itself is a little hollow at this stage.

Daith

awec wrote: »

Rickon was a bit of a pointless character in the TV series. He's just "the other" Stark child who never does anything of consequence.

It's not even a shaggydog story as we don't see Rickon that much in the series.

Tenger

awec wrote: »

Rickon was a bit of a pointless character in the TV series. He's just "the other" Stark child who never does anything of consequence.

Thats a bit unfair to the kid. He was just a kid after all. In the books we get to see how he cant understand whats going on around him as the youngest Stark.
The TV series 'inherited' a vast array of characters and just didnt have the opportunity to do anything with them. The books so far have 31 POV characters and Rickon idnt even one of those.

awec

Rickon was a bit of a pointless character in the TV series. He's just "the other" Stark child who never does anything of consequence.

Daith

Tenger wrote: »

Im not sure how it CANT be Rickon.

It is. The show really just goes with the most simplest explanation.

Also....Ramsey's child could become Lord of Winterfell. Imagine!

Tenger

RobbingBandit wrote: »

.........Iam not convinced that was Rickon, I think they have gone with a mute as he didn't speak a word in any of his on screen scenes at all. Seems strange as my guess was it was Wex but Ramsay killed him back in season two.

Im not sure how you think that it CANT be Rickon. Theres not ambiguity there.

That death definitely ruined the "Rickon on Skagos" theory from the books. (And his development into an old school Stark)
Of course this could still happen in time in the Books.

Daith

wp_rathead wrote: »

Or any of Lady Crane's soup

Arya could have wheeled in singing "Oysters, clams and cockles", fighting would have stopped and Rickon would be fine.

SB_Part2

Great episode.

I'm still not really sure what is going on with Meereen. The scenes with Yara and Theon were good, though.

I felt very claustrophobic watching the battle scene. Absolutely delighted that the hounds turned on Ramsey. The view of his hand sent shivers up my spine.

wp_rathead

Daith wrote: »

It's a pity Rickon didn't have Faceless Man training. He'd be grand.

Or any of Lady Crane's soup

EagererBeaver

Daith wrote: »

It's a pity Rickon didn't have Faceless Man training. He'd be grand.

Bravo, that one just made me choke on my coffee!

Daith

It's a pity Rickon didn't have Faceless Man training. He'd be grand.

awec

That was bloody brilliant.

The battle scenes were incredible.

Daith

Son0vagun wrote: »

Where was Ghost? That was my only problem with the episode. And what a episode it was. Has to be the great battle ever fought on TV. It was just immense.

Lack of Direwolves throughout the series has been annoying but I'd imagine Ghost would have been a gonner in the battle.

In the non book reader thread they mentioned having the hounds chasing Rickon. That could have been a fun Ghost fight.

Or just have a shot of Ghost around Sansa and Lyanna Mormont. Something!