Do I have to disclose penalty points to insurance before points are applied?

magher

I received a speeding fine about 2 months ago, I paid it and filled in my licence details. A week later I got a receipt in the post for the €80.

My insurance renewal is up on on 20th.

So I rang RSA and they said "Yes there are 3 points on your licence and they will come into effect from the 30th" i.e. they will expire on 30/06/2019.

So do I:

A: Tell insurance now and my renewal will increase now

or

B: Renew now, and tell insurance about points on 30th, and next years renewal will increase?

Atlantic Dawn

A.

Non disclosure can void any claim and cancel your insurance.

Nuw

As above, might be worth mentioning the effective date, but in fairness, 3 points usually don't make much of a difference (unless you already have points from prior ticket).

bazz26

Most insurance companies will not load you for having 3 points on your license. Not informing them however means you are not fully disclosing information that effects your cover which means they can cancel your policy.

You will then have some job trying to get insurance again after that, look at this thread for example:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057610484

magher

Tried calculating my renewel premium online, 3 points adds a 10% loading. Although I can't add the future date for when the points apply from, so I'll see what happens when phoning them up.

CiniO

In my opinion, you don't need to disclose anything to your insurer at the moment and at renewal time.

Your point will be applied on 30th June, and that's the day that you need to inform your insurer. No need to say anything earlier.

bazz26

If your policy is up for renewal then shop around. Some insurance companies will not slap a 10% loading for 3 points.

lollsangel

I normally get asked have you gotten any penalty points in the last year or are there any pending penalty points. Better to tell them I reckon

Esel

Disclose, even before being asked.

Otherwise, you are living in a fool's paradise.

Google 'utmost good faith'.

Sh1tbag OToole

Aviva tried to load 300 quid onto me for getting 3 points. Other insurers are not so pushed

Henry Ford III

Yep. Aviva increase premiums for any points.

Hager

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Yep. Aviva increase premiums for any points.

Not really. They give a discount if you have no points. Up to four points premium is level and over four attracts a loading. This is what they explained to me at any rate when I sought clarification on the issue.

blondchick

I got 3 penalty points since my insurance renewal last year. When my renewal came up I got renewal figure in the post. I rang to tell them I had 3 points. They said they would make a note but it didn't make any difference to the premium.

To Elland Back

blondchick wrote: »

I got 3 penalty points since my insurance renewal last year. When my renewal came up I got renewal figure in the post. I rang to tell them I had 3 points. They said they would make a note but it didn't make any difference to the premium.

The duty of disclosure usually applies at inception or renewal of a policy. However, many insurers have inserted conditions that you notify them immediately of such events as penalty points.

While your insurers chose not to amend their terms when you told them at renewal, they could, theoretically, decline a claim mid-term if they discovered these points before you told them. Never leave yourself open with such matters

BohsCeltic

I had 2 points on mine and i rang the RSA to see when they would expire and was told when they would come off on x date then got a letter confirming they had come off. Rang insurance and was told the 1st 4 won't affect premium.

Jesus.

Esel wrote: »

Disclose, even before being asked. Otherwise, you are living in a fool's paradise. Google 'utmost good faith'.

Now if only the insurance industry would practice it as well

Esel

Jesus. wrote: »

Now if only the insurance industry would practice it as well

Meaning? Surely it's all in the policy issued? Small print or not...

Jesus.

Utmost good faith and the insurance industry: Oxymoron

Speedwell

My current insurer talked to my previous insurer, who had talked to my old insurer in the US (I moved here with my husband a little over two years ago), and found I had a total of nine years no claims. Would a speeding ticket with points affect that? Sorry if that's a dumb question.

Yakuza

CiniO wrote: »

In my opinion, you don't need to disclose anything to your insurer at the moment and at renewal time.

Your point will be applied on 30th June, and that's the day that you need to inform your insurer. No need to say anything earlier.

If you are aware of pending points at the time of taking out a new plan or renewing your current one (technically it's a new plan, just with the same company and less form-filling) you should declare them if that's what the proposal form states. Not doing so can leave you open to the company finding out later (when you make a claim), and cancelling your policy, leaving you doubly screwed - you will be personally liable for any claim amounts and the Gardai will more than likely prosecute you for uninsured driving.

Speedwell wrote: »

My current insurer talked to my previous insurer, who had talked to my old insurer in the US (I moved here with my husband a little over two years ago), and found I had a total of nine years no claims. Would a speeding ticket with points affect that? Sorry if that's a dumb question.

A speeding conviction won't affect your no-claims discount, but may add a loading onto your policy, counteracting some of the discount you got. I'm not sure how a speeding ticket outside the juristiction of Ireland would be treated.

More generally, if anyone has motor convictions from over 7 years ago, you don't have to disclose it any more. The Spent Convictions bill was (finally!) signed into law a few months ago and went in force at the end of April. More details here : http://www.iprt.ie/spent-convictions

CiniO

Yakuza wrote: »

If you are aware of pending points at the time of taking out a new plan or renewing your current one (technically it's a new plan, just with the same company and less form-filling) you should declare them if that's what the proposal form states. Not doing so can leave you open to the company finding out later (when you make a claim), and cancelling your policy, leaving you doubly screwed - you will be personally liable for any claim amounts and the Gardai will more than likely prosecute you for uninsured driving.

Sorry mate, but this is nonsense.

What are "pending points"?

There's no such thing as this.

You either have points on your record or not.

OP will have points applied only later on 30th June, so at the moment he doesn't have any points on his licence and that's all he need to tell to his insurer.

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

Sorry mate, but this is nonsense.

What are "pending points"?

There's no such thing as this.

You either have points on your record or not.

OP will have points applied only later on 30th June, so at the moment he doesn't have any points on his licence and that's all he need to tell to his insurer.

It depends totally on the question asked on the proposal.

If the OP answers this fully and honestly they'll have no issue.

If the are in any way economical with the truth it could be a case of non disclosure.

Gumbo

They ask you about impending points so yes you have to disclose imo.

Gumbo

CiniO wrote: »

Sorry mate, but this is nonsense.

What are "pending points"?

There's no such thing as this.

You either have points on your record or not.

OP will have points applied only later on 30th June, so at the moment he doesn't have any points on his licence and that's all he need to tell to his insurer.

Impending points as the OP has already received notification in writing that points are been applied to his licence the insurance companies ask for any impending points.

OP take a look at the other thread in here for a guy that had his insurance cancelled for non disclosure.

sunnysoutheast

kceire wrote: »

Impending points as the OP has already received notification in writing that points are been applied to his licence the insurance companies ask for any impending points.

OP take a look at the other thread in here for a guy that had his insurance cancelled for non disclosure.

From memory don't they usually ask about pending convictions? I agree though it depends on the specific wording.

I just sent in a copy of the RSA letter, no possible argument about disclosure then. For me 3 points had no impact on premium.

You also need to disclose on any policies on which you are a named driver.

CiniO

kceire wrote: »

Impending points as the OP has already received notification in writing that points are been applied to his licence the insurance companies ask for any impending points.

OP take a look at the other thread in here for a guy that had his insurance cancelled for non disclosure.

Well, that's the question from Aviva online quotation system:
"How many penalty points do you have?"
I can't see anything about impending points in this question.

On Allianz online system:
"Total Penalty Points:"


So where do you see those insurers asking about impending points?

Yakuza

CiniO wrote: »

Sorry mate, but this is nonsense.

What are "pending points"?

There's no such thing as this.

You either have points on your record or not.

OP will have points applied only later on 30th June, so at the moment he doesn't have any points on his licence and that's all he need to tell to his insurer.

If you're so sure of yourself, if you ever get in the OPs situation then do as you believe is right, and let us know how it works out for you.

I'll spell it out for you. If you know you have a court date coming up, or you've filled out and sent off the form to acknowledge acceptance of points, i.e. you know that you have points coming down the line, then you should disclose this to the company you're proposing to take out / renew insurance with.

Here's their prop form:

Have you or any person material to this risk:
1 Been convicted of any offence of any nature or have any conviction pending
(this includes motoring and/or any criminal offence)

Here's Aviva's policy document :
http://www.aviva.ie/online/media-library/MotorCare%20Policy%20Booklet.pdf, general conditions, section c:

You must let us know about any relevant or material facts that may possibly affect our decision to provide insurance, since the start date of the policy or your last renewal date (whichever is the latest). If you do not reveal these facts, your policy may not provide the cover you need or may not be valid at all

If you don't say anything at the time, and then subsequently have a claim (by then the company will know about your points, and they will know you knew about them when renewing / taking out the policy, they *will* take this into account and most likely invalidate the policy.

Even if you don't have a claim, at your next renewal you could run into issues if they say "why didn't you tell us this last year?" Look at the other thread referenced elsewhere about failing to disclose facts.

Insurance companies will use any means in their contracts to avoid paying out, so if you've "forgotten" to disclose something at proposal / renewal time, it will not work out well for you.

CiniO

Yakuza wrote: »

If you're so sure of yourself, if you ever get in the OPs situation then do as you believe is right, and let us know how it works out for you.

I'll spell it out for you. If you know you have a court date coming up, or you've filled out and sent off the form to acknowledge acceptance of points, i.e. you know that you have points coming down the line, then you should disclose this to the company you're proposing to take out / renew insurance with.

Here's their prop form:


Here's Aviva's policy document :
http://www.aviva.ie/online/media-library/MotorCare%20Policy%20Booklet.pdf, general conditions, section c:
If you don't say anything at the time, and then subsequently have a claim (by then the company will know about your points, and they will know you knew about them when renewing / taking out the policy, they *will* take this into account and most likely invalidate the policy.

Even if you don't have a claim, at your next renewal you could run into issues if they say "why didn't you tell us this last year?" Look at the other thread referenced elsewhere about failing to disclose facts.

Insurance companies will use any means in their contracts to avoid paying out, so if you've "forgotten" to disclose something at proposal / renewal time, it will not work out well for you.

Convictions and pending convictions stuff you quoted, is only relevant to actual convictions, not fines and penalty points associated with them.

You're still missing the main point here.
OP doesn't have a active points on his record, therefore he has nothing to disclose.
Insurer might be asking him why he didn't tell them about points at renewal, but answer to this question is perfectly simple. He didn't tell them, because he didn't have any points at renewal.
He was informed that points are going to be applied on 30th June, so before 30th June he has no points - simple as that.

Jesus.

kceire wrote: »

Impending points as the OP has already received notification in writing that points are been applied to his licence the insurance companies ask for any impending points.

So in essence you're being penalised for longer than you actually have points? I doubt the same would apply the other way around, IE if the customer's points were within a few weeks of being deleted.

db

I had a similar situation a few years ago. I had points pending when I renewed and declared them on my application. They were included in the calculation of my premium. Three years later they were again included in the premium so I was effectively penalised for 4 years. I queried this with the insurance company and they said I shouldn't have declared the points until they came into effect.

Jesus.

db wrote: »

I had a similar situation a few years ago. I had points pending when I renewed and declared them on my application. They were included in the calculation of my premium. Three years later they were again included in the premium so I was effectively penalised for 4 years. I queried this with the insurance company and they said I shouldn't have declared the points until they came into effect.

Well there you go. Either way it seems that the customer has to bend over backwards to practice good faith but the insurer can come up with any bullsh1t to load you up.