Van insurance cancelled - non disclosure

wardwil

Please Help!!1

I have just had my van insurance cancelled for non disclosure. I could not find anyone to cover a musician when searching for insurance.

I was using a van once a week as a musician while covered as a tiler.

I cannot get insurance anywhere. I have requested three letters of refusal and now Insurance Ireland will have to force someone to insure me.... more than likely my last insurer AXA.
I rang FBD,AVIVA, LIBERTY, QUOTE DEVIL, NON STANDARD and many more.

Is there anyone who will cover me?

Can I get insurance on a car?

Can I get insurance as a named driver on a van?

Can I get insurance from a company outside the country?

I cannot find any info anywhere to help!

Thanks

bazz26

Your problem is that because your current policy has been cancelled due to non disclosure you are most likely black listed by most insurance companies as I think they have some sort of sharing of information like this between them.

Not sure what else you can do other than one of them being forced to offer you cover.

The_Honeybadger

Never heard of that happening before, was this triggered by an incident / claim? How did it come to their attention? Sorry to hear about your troubles, hope you get sorted.

Vicxas

What did you not disclose?

ThisRegard

He said he uses the van because he's a plasterer rather than for being a musician and carting relevant equipment around.

Cabaal

Vicxas wrote: »

What did you not disclose?

Did you not read the OP?
Clearly he didn't disclose the work use of the van

I could not find anyone to cover a musician when searching for insurance.....I was using a van once a week as a musician while covered as a tiler.

Vicxas

Cabaal wrote: »

Did you not read the OP?
Clearly he didn't disclose the work use of the van

Sorry i was just confused, i thought the musician part was for pleasure and not actually his job, my bad.

Henry Ford III

Lots of musicians drive vans carrying their equipment. Obtaining cover should have been possible.

I'd say you've a serious issue now though OP.

bladespin

Never heard of musicians being refused cover????

Must be something new.

Liam McPoyle

bladespin wrote: »

Never heard of musicians being refused cover????

Must be something new.

Its not, I've been in insurance for almost 7 years and its an issue from any company I've dealt with.

The reason is two fold.

1) if they are carrying instruments, amps etc around it is a higher theft risk.

2) a lot of the time gigs will be at night, in pubs, potential for drink driving or falling asleep at the wheel is higher.

Atlantic Dawn

What if 5 days a week your a plasterer and 1 day a week a musician, what occupation do you tell them?

ohnonotgmail

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What if 5 days a week your a plasterer and 1 day a week a musician, what occupation do you tell them?

Both.

bear1

How did they find out OP about the discrepancy?

To Elland Back

bear1 wrote: »

How did they find out OP about the discrepancy?

Insurers have teams allocated to weeding out the liars. Loads of methods (which I'm not giving here). Good fun actually, did it myself for a year.

People who commit insurance fraud are costing, on average, €50 per policy so nobody should have sympathy for them

The_Honeybadger

To Elland Back wrote: »

Insurers have teams allocated to weeding out the liars. Loads of methods (which I'm not giving here). Good fun actually, did it myself for a year.

People who commit insurance fraud are costing, on average, €50 per policy so nobody should have sympathy for them

But the op never said there was a claim or incident. Strange that this would happen without warning surely?

PirateShampoo

To Elland Back wrote: »

Insurers have teams allocated to weeding out the liars. Loads of methods (which I'm not giving here). Good fun actually, did it myself for a year.

People who commit insurance fraud are costing, on average, €50 per policy so nobody should have sympathy for them

So your telling us his Insurance company had a crack team of fraud officers sat outside this chaps house to catch this diabolical musician and put a end to his gigging regin of terror?


Also what's the fraud?

Using the van for other than work? If so by your reasoning so would be driving it to the shop to get some milk.

Cuddlesworth

PirateShampoo wrote: »

So your telling us his Insurance company had a crack team of fraud officers sat outside this chaps house to catch this diabolical musician and put a end to his gigging regin of terror?

I'd say they have a team that created a profile with a hot chick for the profile picture, slapped the email address into facebook and added him, browsed through the pictures for 3 minutes until they saw his van being used for carting around musical stuff, did a bit more research into his posts that showed him as a musician only and then wrote a report and moved onto the next person in their list.

PirateShampoo

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I'd say they have a team that created a profile with a hot chick for the profile picture, slapped the email address into facebook and added him, browsed through the pictures for 3 minutes until they saw his van being used for carting around musical stuff, did a bit more research into his posts that showed him as a musician only and then wrote a report and moved onto the next person in their list.

Yeah then crossed checked with the Welfare to make sure he wasn't claiming, then ran his info through Interpol and the FBI data bases to make sure he wasn't a international terrorist.

To Elland Back

It can be as simple as a 'tiler' providing a contact e-mail address as bookmyband@gmail.com. Yep, some are as thick as that

The OP misrepresented his circumstance to obtain a policy the insurer had decided not to accept, there is the fraud

bear1

Cancelling an insurance policy solely on an email address tells me the person who made that choice is even thicker.
Its circumstantial, surely they would request he prove he has one job only rather than jumping to conclusions.

Cuddlesworth

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Yeah then crossed checked with the Welfare to make sure he wasn't claiming, then ran his info through Interpol and the FBI data bases to make sure he wasn't a international terrorist.

you really underestimate how much info people put on the internet that can be gotten in udner 10 minutes.

Corvo

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

you really underestimate how much info people put on the internet that can be gotten in udner 10 minutes.

Yep. Recent fraud case probably took someone five minutes to find (they were mutual friends on Facebook). Can't remember the name of the people now, but it was in the national news.

billy few mates

Maybe they thought you were a fiddler...?

bmwguy

Corvo wrote: »

Yep. Recent fraud case probably took someone five minutes to find (they were mutual friends on Facebook). Can't remember the name of the people now, but it was in the national news.

If its the one I am thinking of that was a husband and wife (or maybe just boyfriend and girlfriend now that I think of it) that staged a crash into each other at a junction, rang the cops, filed claims with insurance companies pretending to be perfect strangers.

It was uncovered when one of their Facebook profile pictures had the other person in it too. Busted.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

bladespin wrote: »

Never heard of musicians being refused cover????

Must be something new.

Its not, I've been in insurance for almost 7 years and its an issue from any company I've dealt with.

The reason is two fold.

1) if they are carrying instruments, amps etc around it is a higher theft risk.

2) a lot of the time gigs will be at night, in pubs, potential for drink driving or falling asleep at the wheel is higher.

Absolute rubbish I'd say, it's just another excuse for insurance companies to fleece customers. How many accidents have you heard about involving musicians in vans late at night? I work in the emergency service sector and in my 18yrsi can safely say I have never come across one single accident involving a van late at night and very very few accidents involving vans during daylight hours either, for that matter.

No matter what your profession, there is a level of loading by insurance companies. Remember they're in it to make as much profit as possible, they will use any excuse to get out of claims and in my mind are the biggest legalised criminal organisations ever.

vandriver

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Absolute rubbish I'd say, it's just another excuse for insurance companies to fleece customers. How many accidents have you heard about involving musicians in vans late at night? I work in the emergency service sector and in my 18yrsi can safely say I have never come across one single accident involving a van late at night and very very few accidents involving vans during daylight hours either, for that matter.

No matter what your profession, there is a level of loading by insurance companies. Remember they're in it to make as much profit as possible, they will use any excuse to get out of claims and in my mind are the biggest legalised criminal organisations ever.

This tragedy was only 4 months ago

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/14/five-british-men-die-in-car-crash-in-stockholm-sweden

dr.fuzzenstein

It's a bit annoying, here is someone getting tossed for a minor case of misinformation, hardly the fraud case of the century.
And yet Mary with her "genuinely" sore neck will have €15k stuffed in her pocket after a 5km/h car park shunt before you can say "out of court settlement". And there won't be an investigation of her claim or a fraud team after her. And probably will be getting a discount next year because she's driving 1000 km a year in her dent strewn 1 liter yaris sh*tbox leaving a stream of misery in her wake.

To Elland Back

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's a bit annoying, here is someone getting tossed for a minor case of misinformation, hardly the fraud case of the century.
And yet Mary with her "genuinely" sore neck will have €15k stuffed in her pocket after a 5km/h car park shunt before you can say "out of court settlement". And there won't be an investigation of her claim or a fraud team after her. And probably will be getting a discount next year because she's driving 1000 km a year in her dent strewn 1 liter yaris sh*tbox leaving a stream of misery in her wake.

So everyone here is shouting why don't insurers crack down on fraud rather than lump the consequences on to policyholders premiums, then the same people say this is only a little bit of fraud, let it slide.

This particular insurer may have had a bad claims portfolio with musicians and have tried to clear them from their books. Is it OK then to tell all the other honest policyholders that their premiums have gone up because the internet thinks this fella is really just misunderstood?

Unfortunately, the serious mega fraudster may have their ducks in a line and proving their incident may be near possible. An insurer will tackle ANY level of fraud if they can. There has to be zero tolerance or the whole system collapses. No sympathy whatsoever for the smartarse who gets caught putting his hand in my pocket, I'll cut it off if I get the chance.

billy few mates

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's a bit annoying, here is someone getting tossed for a minor case of misinformation, hardly the fraud case of the century.
And yet Mary with her "genuinely" sore neck will have €15k stuffed in her pocket after a 5km/h car park shunt before you can say "out of court settlement". And there won't be an investigation of her claim or a fraud team after her. And probably will be getting a discount next year because she's driving 1000 km a year in her dent strewn 1 liter yaris sh*tbox leaving a stream of misery in her wake.

I agree, you won't find my job description in any of the drop down menus on the insurance websites that I've tried for quotes on so I always select one that's roughly similar but not exactly what I do. No doubt if push came to shove they could turn around and do the same to me for non disclosure...

To Elland Back

bear1 wrote: »

Cancelling an insurance policy solely on an email address tells me the person who made that choice is even thicker.
Its circumstantial, surely they would request he prove he has one job only rather than jumping to conclusions.

The example I gave was a trigger for a full investigation and you know that, I hope.

Bazzy

But if I drive a van as a painter and insured as sam and cut my neighbours grass for 20 euro at the weekend and drive my van there am i liable not to be covered as I havent disclosed myself as a gardener?

Matt Markinson

Bazzy wrote: »

But if I drive a van as a painter and insured as sam and cut my neighbours grass for 20 euro at the weekend and drive my van there am i liable not to be covered as I havent disclosed myself as a gardener?

Correct, and the tax man would be very interested in the €20's

cormie

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Absolute rubbish I'd say, it's just another excuse for insurance companies to fleece customers. How many accidents have you heard about involving musicians in vans late at night? I work in the emergency service sector and in my 18yrsi can safely say I have never come across one single accident involving a van late at night and very very few accidents involving vans during daylight hours either, for that matter.

No matter what your profession, there is a level of loading by insurance companies. Remember they're in it to make as much profit as possible, they will use any excuse to get out of claims and in my mind are the biggest legalised criminal organisations ever.

Remember, nobody would insure him when he said he was a musician, it's not like they were willing to insure him but giving him hiked up prices. It can be a right pain getting quotes when you do something a little uncommon, as soon as anyone hears I want cover for furniture removal, I'm told they don't cover it. It took a lot of faffing about to get my insurance sorted and it's getting even harder I believe. I have to say though, it's definitely not fair for those paying for legit insurance to foot the bill for those not and then getting undercut by the very same people who can offer cheaper rates because their costs are so much lower.

pippip

The high value music equipment as a reason is crap, sure all they have to do is not cover that, same as builders cover and not including tools.

So basically its cause they would be driving at night?

To Elland Back

Bazzy wrote: »

But if I drive a van as a painter and insured as sam and cut my neighbours grass for 20 euro at the weekend and drive my van there am i liable not to be covered as I havent disclosed myself as a gardener?

Yes, you will have non-disclosed

Have a look at your policy schedule. It will say something along the lines of 'Use in connection with the insured's business as described in the schedule'. Anything outside of that (other than social, domestic & pleasure) and you are open to action by your insurer

pippip

To Elland Back wrote: »

Yes, you will have non-disclosed

Have a look at your policy schedule. It will say something along the lines of 'Use in connection with the insured's business as described in the schedule'. Anything outside of that (other than social, domestic & pleasure) and you are open to action by your insurer

I know its a stretch but if you were a musician paid in cash (no bank trail) how would the insurance prove you were not just playing gigs for the love of music?....pleasure.

To Elland Back

pippip wrote: »

The high value music equipment as a reason is crap, sure all they have to do is not cover that, same as builders cover and not including tools.

So basically its cause they would be driving at night?

It is not for you to decide what is or isn't a risk. If an insurer asks you what your occupation is and they don't like what you tell them, you move on to the next one. There are other more important reasons why musicians are difficult to insure. If a builder gives a colleague a lift home in his van and hits a ditch. he can sue him for €x if, for instance he breaks a finger. If a musician gives a colleague a lift home with the same outcome, that 'finger' can be worth many multiples of the builder's colleague.

The equipment is not covered under the policy anyway, but it does improve the chances of the vehicle being stolen.

Bazzy

Matt Markinson wrote: »

Correct, and the tax man would be very interested in the €20's

I dont even cut me own grass never mind the neighbours

I've been dealing with the tax man for a long time I keep my affairs in order with them they're a tough audience!!!

Kenny Logins

pippip wrote: »

The high value music equipment as a reason is crap, sure all they have to do is not cover that, same as builders cover and not including tools.

So basically its cause they would be driving at night?

To and from the pub, yes.

To Elland Back

pippip wrote: »

I know its a stretch but if you were a musician paid in cash (no bank trail) how would the insurance prove you were not just playing gigs for the love of music?....pleasure.

Not getting paid does not mean you are not a musician. If you are using the vehicle in connection with getting to and from gigs, you are a musician in the eyes of an insurer.. It may never get discovered, just like many cases of fraud.

Bazzy

To Elland Back wrote: »

Yes, you will have non-disclosed

Have a look at your policy schedule. It will say something along the lines of 'Use in connection with the insured's business as described in the schedule'. Anything outside of that (other than social, domestic & pleasure) and you are open to action by your insurer

Just playing devils advocate here

I've a friend who volunteers with a brass band and has a big yokeamebob theres no reward for her playing

If she was a plasterer and drove her instrument in the van and doesn't disclose being a musician is she liable to have it cancelled?

To Elland Back

Bazzy wrote: »

Just playing devils advocate here

I've a friend who volunteers with a brass band and has a big yokeamebob theres no reward for her playing

If she was a plasterer and drove her instrument in the van and doesn't disclose being a musician is she liable to have it cancelled?

If she is genuinely a plasterer and just drives to an 'occasional' event, without reward, I don't see a problem. If your friend is transporting other members or their equipment, yep I think there is a issue. The van is being used because of it's capabilities rather than the driver's usual means of transportation

grogi

To Elland Back wrote: »

Not getting paid does not mean you are not a musician. If you are using the vehicle in connection with getting to and from gigs, you are a musician in the eyes of an insurer.. It may never get discovered, just like many cases of fraud.

The problem is that the cancellation of the policy is solely in the hands of the insurer, there is no way to appeal it. And in this country it is like a death sentence...

grogi

To Elland Back wrote: »

The equipment is not covered under the policy anyway, but it does improve the chances of the vehicle being stolen.

Desirability of the vehicle in eyes of the thieves should not affect the TPL insurance at all. Insurer could offer only the TPL, but not Comprehensive insurance if that is an issue.

To Elland Back

grogi wrote: »

The problem is that the cancellation of the policy is solely in the hands of the insurer, there is no way to appeal it. And in this country it is like a death sentence...

You, the proposer, are the only person entering in to the contract with ALL the facts on which it is based. YOU can avoid any issues by being truthful to the other party

grogi

To Elland Back wrote: »

You, the proposer, are the only person entering in to the contract with ALL the facts on which it is based. YOU can avoid any issues by being truthful to the other party

Only God does not make mistakes, but you seem to assign this capability to people as well. There are people working for the insurer, they can be wrong.

To Elland Back

grogi wrote: »

Desirability of the vehicle in eyes of the thieves should not affect the TPL insurance at all. Insurer could offer only the TPL, but not Comprehensive insurance if that is an issue.

I've given an explanation as to why the TPL is a huge issue and dismissed desirability of the vehicle as being a minor consideration. Read my earlier post

grogi

To Elland Back wrote: »

I've given an explanation as to why the TPL is a huge issue and dismissed desirability of the vehicle as being a minor consideration. Read my earlier post

Don't need to read it - I quoted it, didn't I? ;-)

To Elland Back

grogi wrote: »

Only God does not make mistakes, but you seem to assign this capability to people as well. There are people working for the insurer, they can be wrong.

Forgetting your occupation is not a mistake

To Elland Back

grogi wrote: »

Don't need to read it - I quoted it, didn't I? ;-)

No, you quoted a different element of my post

grogi

To Elland Back wrote: »

Forgetting your occupation is not a mistake

I am not defending the OP here, but talking about the investigators, clerks etc. working for the insurer. They might make a mistake, a clerical one for instance, and a policy got cancelled. No way to appeal this decision...