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Van insurance cancelled - non disclosure

wardwil

Please Help!!1

I have just had my van insurance cancelled for non disclosure. I could not find anyone to cover a musician when searching for insurance.

I was using a van once a week as a musician while covered as a tiler.

I cannot get insurance anywhere. I have requested three letters of refusal and now Insurance Ireland will have to force someone to insure me.... more than likely my last insurer AXA.
I rang FBD,AVIVA, LIBERTY, QUOTE DEVIL, NON STANDARD and many more.

Is there anyone who will cover me?

Can I get insurance on a car?

Can I get insurance as a named driver on a van?

Can I get insurance from a company outside the country?

I cannot find any info anywhere to help!

Thanks

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To Elland Back

pippip wrote: »

I know its a stretch but if you were a musician paid in cash (no bank trail) how would the insurance prove you were not just playing gigs for the love of music?....pleasure.

Not getting paid does not mean you are not a musician. If you are using the vehicle in connection with getting to and from gigs, you are a musician in the eyes of an insurer.. It may never get discovered, just like many cases of fraud.

Kenny Logins

pippip wrote: »

The high value music equipment as a reason is crap, sure all they have to do is not cover that, same as builders cover and not including tools.

So basically its cause they would be driving at night?

To and from the pub, yes.

Bazzy

Matt Markinson wrote: »

Correct, and the tax man would be very interested in the €20's

I dont even cut me own grass never mind the neighbours

I've been dealing with the tax man for a long time I keep my affairs in order with them they're a tough audience!!!

To Elland Back

pippip wrote: »

The high value music equipment as a reason is crap, sure all they have to do is not cover that, same as builders cover and not including tools.

So basically its cause they would be driving at night?

It is not for you to decide what is or isn't a risk. If an insurer asks you what your occupation is and they don't like what you tell them, you move on to the next one. There are other more important reasons why musicians are difficult to insure. If a builder gives a colleague a lift home in his van and hits a ditch. he can sue him for €x if, for instance he breaks a finger. If a musician gives a colleague a lift home with the same outcome, that 'finger' can be worth many multiples of the builder's colleague.

The equipment is not covered under the policy anyway, but it does improve the chances of the vehicle being stolen.

pippip

To Elland Back wrote: »

Yes, you will have non-disclosed

Have a look at your policy schedule. It will say something along the lines of 'Use in connection with the insured's business as described in the schedule'. Anything outside of that (other than social, domestic & pleasure) and you are open to action by your insurer

I know its a stretch but if you were a musician paid in cash (no bank trail) how would the insurance prove you were not just playing gigs for the love of music?....pleasure.

To Elland Back

Bazzy wrote: »

But if I drive a van as a painter and insured as sam and cut my neighbours grass for 20 euro at the weekend and drive my van there am i liable not to be covered as I havent disclosed myself as a gardener?

Yes, you will have non-disclosed

Have a look at your policy schedule. It will say something along the lines of 'Use in connection with the insured's business as described in the schedule'. Anything outside of that (other than social, domestic & pleasure) and you are open to action by your insurer

pippip

The high value music equipment as a reason is crap, sure all they have to do is not cover that, same as builders cover and not including tools.

So basically its cause they would be driving at night?

cormie

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Absolute rubbish I'd say, it's just another excuse for insurance companies to fleece customers. How many accidents have you heard about involving musicians in vans late at night? I work in the emergency service sector and in my 18yrsi can safely say I have never come across one single accident involving a van late at night and very very few accidents involving vans during daylight hours either, for that matter.

No matter what your profession, there is a level of loading by insurance companies. Remember they're in it to make as much profit as possible, they will use any excuse to get out of claims and in my mind are the biggest legalised criminal organisations ever.

Remember, nobody would insure him when he said he was a musician, it's not like they were willing to insure him but giving him hiked up prices. It can be a right pain getting quotes when you do something a little uncommon, as soon as anyone hears I want cover for furniture removal, I'm told they don't cover it. It took a lot of faffing about to get my insurance sorted and it's getting even harder I believe. I have to say though, it's definitely not fair for those paying for legit insurance to foot the bill for those not and then getting undercut by the very same people who can offer cheaper rates because their costs are so much lower.

Matt Markinson

Bazzy wrote: »

But if I drive a van as a painter and insured as sam and cut my neighbours grass for 20 euro at the weekend and drive my van there am i liable not to be covered as I havent disclosed myself as a gardener?

Correct, and the tax man would be very interested in the €20's

Bazzy

But if I drive a van as a painter and insured as sam and cut my neighbours grass for 20 euro at the weekend and drive my van there am i liable not to be covered as I havent disclosed myself as a gardener?

To Elland Back

bear1 wrote: »

Cancelling an insurance policy solely on an email address tells me the person who made that choice is even thicker.
Its circumstantial, surely they would request he prove he has one job only rather than jumping to conclusions.

The example I gave was a trigger for a full investigation and you know that, I hope.

billy few mates

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's a bit annoying, here is someone getting tossed for a minor case of misinformation, hardly the fraud case of the century.
And yet Mary with her "genuinely" sore neck will have €15k stuffed in her pocket after a 5km/h car park shunt before you can say "out of court settlement". And there won't be an investigation of her claim or a fraud team after her. And probably will be getting a discount next year because she's driving 1000 km a year in her dent strewn 1 liter yaris sh*tbox leaving a stream of misery in her wake.

I agree, you won't find my job description in any of the drop down menus on the insurance websites that I've tried for quotes on so I always select one that's roughly similar but not exactly what I do. No doubt if push came to shove they could turn around and do the same to me for non disclosure...

To Elland Back

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's a bit annoying, here is someone getting tossed for a minor case of misinformation, hardly the fraud case of the century.
And yet Mary with her "genuinely" sore neck will have €15k stuffed in her pocket after a 5km/h car park shunt before you can say "out of court settlement". And there won't be an investigation of her claim or a fraud team after her. And probably will be getting a discount next year because she's driving 1000 km a year in her dent strewn 1 liter yaris sh*tbox leaving a stream of misery in her wake.

So everyone here is shouting why don't insurers crack down on fraud rather than lump the consequences on to policyholders premiums, then the same people say this is only a little bit of fraud, let it slide.

This particular insurer may have had a bad claims portfolio with musicians and have tried to clear them from their books. Is it OK then to tell all the other honest policyholders that their premiums have gone up because the internet thinks this fella is really just misunderstood?

Unfortunately, the serious mega fraudster may have their ducks in a line and proving their incident may be near possible. An insurer will tackle ANY level of fraud if they can. There has to be zero tolerance or the whole system collapses. No sympathy whatsoever for the smartarse who gets caught putting his hand in my pocket, I'll cut it off if I get the chance.

dr.fuzzenstein

It's a bit annoying, here is someone getting tossed for a minor case of misinformation, hardly the fraud case of the century.
And yet Mary with her "genuinely" sore neck will have €15k stuffed in her pocket after a 5km/h car park shunt before you can say "out of court settlement". And there won't be an investigation of her claim or a fraud team after her. And probably will be getting a discount next year because she's driving 1000 km a year in her dent strewn 1 liter yaris sh*tbox leaving a stream of misery in her wake.

vandriver

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Absolute rubbish I'd say, it's just another excuse for insurance companies to fleece customers. How many accidents have you heard about involving musicians in vans late at night? I work in the emergency service sector and in my 18yrsi can safely say I have never come across one single accident involving a van late at night and very very few accidents involving vans during daylight hours either, for that matter.

No matter what your profession, there is a level of loading by insurance companies. Remember they're in it to make as much profit as possible, they will use any excuse to get out of claims and in my mind are the biggest legalised criminal organisations ever.

This tragedy was only 4 months ago

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/14/five-british-men-die-in-car-crash-in-stockholm-sweden

Cee-Jay-Cee

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

bladespin wrote: »

Never heard of musicians being refused cover????

Must be something new.

Its not, I've been in insurance for almost 7 years and its an issue from any company I've dealt with.

The reason is two fold.

1) if they are carrying instruments, amps etc around it is a higher theft risk.

2) a lot of the time gigs will be at night, in pubs, potential for drink driving or falling asleep at the wheel is higher.

Absolute rubbish I'd say, it's just another excuse for insurance companies to fleece customers. How many accidents have you heard about involving musicians in vans late at night? I work in the emergency service sector and in my 18yrsi can safely say I have never come across one single accident involving a van late at night and very very few accidents involving vans during daylight hours either, for that matter.

No matter what your profession, there is a level of loading by insurance companies. Remember they're in it to make as much profit as possible, they will use any excuse to get out of claims and in my mind are the biggest legalised criminal organisations ever.

bmwguy

Corvo wrote: »

Yep. Recent fraud case probably took someone five minutes to find (they were mutual friends on Facebook). Can't remember the name of the people now, but it was in the national news.

If its the one I am thinking of that was a husband and wife (or maybe just boyfriend and girlfriend now that I think of it) that staged a crash into each other at a junction, rang the cops, filed claims with insurance companies pretending to be perfect strangers.

It was uncovered when one of their Facebook profile pictures had the other person in it too. Busted.

billy few mates

Maybe they thought you were a fiddler...?

Corvo

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

you really underestimate how much info people put on the internet that can be gotten in udner 10 minutes.

Yep. Recent fraud case probably took someone five minutes to find (they were mutual friends on Facebook). Can't remember the name of the people now, but it was in the national news.

Cuddlesworth

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Yeah then crossed checked with the Welfare to make sure he wasn't claiming, then ran his info through Interpol and the FBI data bases to make sure he wasn't a international terrorist.

you really underestimate how much info people put on the internet that can be gotten in udner 10 minutes.

bear1

Cancelling an insurance policy solely on an email address tells me the person who made that choice is even thicker.
Its circumstantial, surely they would request he prove he has one job only rather than jumping to conclusions.

To Elland Back

It can be as simple as a 'tiler' providing a contact e-mail address as bookmyband@gmail.com. Yep, some are as thick as that

The OP misrepresented his circumstance to obtain a policy the insurer had decided not to accept, there is the fraud

PirateShampoo

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I'd say they have a team that created a profile with a hot chick for the profile picture, slapped the email address into facebook and added him, browsed through the pictures for 3 minutes until they saw his van being used for carting around musical stuff, did a bit more research into his posts that showed him as a musician only and then wrote a report and moved onto the next person in their list.

Yeah then crossed checked with the Welfare to make sure he wasn't claiming, then ran his info through Interpol and the FBI data bases to make sure he wasn't a international terrorist.

Cuddlesworth

PirateShampoo wrote: »

So your telling us his Insurance company had a crack team of fraud officers sat outside this chaps house to catch this diabolical musician and put a end to his gigging regin of terror?

I'd say they have a team that created a profile with a hot chick for the profile picture, slapped the email address into facebook and added him, browsed through the pictures for 3 minutes until they saw his van being used for carting around musical stuff, did a bit more research into his posts that showed him as a musician only and then wrote a report and moved onto the next person in their list.

PirateShampoo

To Elland Back wrote: »

Insurers have teams allocated to weeding out the liars. Loads of methods (which I'm not giving here). Good fun actually, did it myself for a year.

People who commit insurance fraud are costing, on average, €50 per policy so nobody should have sympathy for them

So your telling us his Insurance company had a crack team of fraud officers sat outside this chaps house to catch this diabolical musician and put a end to his gigging regin of terror?

Also what's the fraud?

Using the van for other than work? If so by your reasoning so would be driving it to the shop to get some milk.

The_Honeybadger

To Elland Back wrote: »

Insurers have teams allocated to weeding out the liars. Loads of methods (which I'm not giving here). Good fun actually, did it myself for a year.

People who commit insurance fraud are costing, on average, €50 per policy so nobody should have sympathy for them

But the op never said there was a claim or incident. Strange that this would happen without warning surely?

To Elland Back

bear1 wrote: »

How did they find out OP about the discrepancy?

Insurers have teams allocated to weeding out the liars. Loads of methods (which I'm not giving here). Good fun actually, did it myself for a year.

People who commit insurance fraud are costing, on average, €50 per policy so nobody should have sympathy for them

bear1

How did they find out OP about the discrepancy?

ohnonotgmail

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What if 5 days a week your a plasterer and 1 day a week a musician, what occupation do you tell them?

Both.

Atlantic Dawn

What if 5 days a week your a plasterer and 1 day a week a musician, what occupation do you tell them?