Guard of honour for rescue 9/11 rescue dog.

Fleawuss

I saw this on the net and my first reaction was WTF. A dog is brought to the vet to be put down at the end of its working life. It was a 9/11 rescue dog. 15 years later a guard of honour is given to a dog who has no idea of what it means. None of his or her relatives will either. Now first reactions aren't always the best but I want AH to look at this and tell me: have we gone doggone nuts? Has the US gone 9/11 nuts? What do you think of this? Deserved? Appropriate? Lunatics taking over the asylum?

HalloweenJack

Why is it a big deal?

Maybe the dog doesn't understand but the humans know what they are doing, they are showing their respect for his help that day. I think it's a very nice gesture. Animals get treated like **** quite frequently, it's nice to see them being treated with some respect every now and again.

beach_walker

I've got a little something in my eye, excuse me...

gramar

Dead people don't know what's going on at their funeral but they still get buried with an appropriate ceremony and this dog has arguably contributed more to society than a lot of humans.

Story Bud?

gramar wrote: »

Dead people don't know what's going on at their funeral

Logic: the end to any argument.

everlast75

anything that sets an example on how to honour and treat dogs correctly is in my view to be welcomed.

dogs are incredible creatures and I frequently have more empathy for them than humans

Cienciano

Americans can get pretty weird when it comes to things like this. Here they are saluting a sword in a box:

http://i.imgur.com/Y79nMPs.png

Fleawuss

Story Bud? wrote: »

Logic: the end to any argument.

I couldn't agree more. The dog isn't dead when it gets the guard of honour.

What's that I smell burning?

Mr. CooL ICE

If that dog saved a lot of lives, why shouldn't it receive some acknowledgement? RIP to the dog. The handler must be devastated.

SEPT 23 1989

im sure the dog would have felt the love as he had his final walk through the guard of honour

Fleawuss

Cienciano wrote: »

Americans can get pretty weird when it comes to things like this. Here they are saluting a sword in a box:

http://i.imgur.com/Y79nMPs.png

There's definitely the emergence of a guard of honour and saluting fetish going on.

HornyDevil

This wont end well.

Richard Hillman

That dog is a hero.

maudgonner

A wussy flea is giving out about a dog getting all the glory.

I've seen it all now.

I share your opinion OP.

I'm a dog lover but I'm not fanatical -- even working dogs are cognitively oblivious to the role they perform; they're not family, and they must never be mistreated & abused by applying anthropomorphic principles to them.

I have seen many dogs ending up with behavioural difficulties because of owners who insisted on treating their pets like little furry humans.

One of the core principles of good dog-management is knowing how to distinguish between human and canine responsibilities.

Dogs can be brave, but this dog did not understand the role he performed. The concept of saving lives would have been lost on him.

I'm sure this approach will be rebutted by some canine hairdresser, but the basic principle remains: canines respond to fairly basic stimuli and are generally incapable of complex cognitive processes. Brave dogs exist, but hardly 'heroes'.

ScumLord

If nothing else it's a reminder to the people that these dogs work with, that they're an important and vital part of the team. The dog was probably liked by everyone it met and may well have saved one or two of them.

Honoring the animals that benefit us has been a tradition that likely goes back to the earliest hunters, who would honor the animals they killed. I think it's something we should bring back, we should be honoring cattle in this country like we did in the past, without them we wouldn't be the same country.

everlast75

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I share your opinion OP.

I'm a dog lover but I'm not fanatical -- even working dogs are cognitively oblivious to the role they perform; they're not family, and they must never be mistreated & abused by applying anthropomorphic principles to them.

I have seen many dogs ending up with behavioural difficulties because of owners who insisted on treating their pets like little furry humans.

One of the core principles of good dog-management is knowing how to distinguish between human and canine responsibilities.

Dogs can be brave, but this dog did not understand the role he performed. The concept of saving lives would have been lost on him.

I'm sure this approach will be rebutted by some canine hairdresser, but the basic principle remains: canines respond to fairly basic stimuli and are generally incapable of complex cognitive processes. Brave dogs exist, but hardly 'heroes'.

You lost me at "they're not family"...

Lt Dan

Fleawuss wrote: »

I saw this on the net and my first reaction was WTF. A dog is brought to the vet to be put down at the end of its working life. It was a 9/11 rescue dog. 15 years later a guard of honour is given to a dog who has no idea of what it means. None of his or her relatives will either. Now first reactions aren't always the best but I want AH to look at this and tell me: have we gone doggone nuts? Has the US gone 9/11 nuts? What do you think of this? Deserved? Appropriate? Lunatics taking over the asylum?

'Merica :rolleyes:

smash

I'm surprised they didn't stuff it and put it in a museum.

valoren

9/11

It was a ruff time for us all.

everlast75

everlast75 wrote: »

You lost me at "they're not family"...

Probably for the best.

smash

valoren wrote: »

9/11

It was a ruff time for us all.

You could be barking up the wrong tree here. Let's see how it plays out.

gramar

smash wrote: »

You could be barking up the wrong tree here. Let's see how it plays out.

Let's just hope that all dogs do go to heaven.

take everything

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I share your opinion OP.

I'm a dog lover but I'm not fanatical -- even working dogs are cognitively oblivious to the role they perform

How do you know about the cognition of a dog.

OP, I think you're being a bit ruff.
This dog was involved in (ca)nine eleven and the war on terrier.

Riddle101

A ceremony giving recognition to an animal for it's services. I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

Allinall

Riddle101 wrote: »

A ceremony giving recognition to an animal for it's services. I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

I agree.

It certainly gave me paws for thought.

Wibbs

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

canines respond to fairly basic stimuli and are generally incapable of complex cognitive processes.

Right… so the examples of dogs that have vocabularies of over 200 words, that can understand the relationship between an icon of an object and the object itself, understand a mirror is a reflection and show an understanding of the self. That seems pretty damned complex. That's just the obvious "human" type stuff, their interactions with each other are highly complex. Hell there are corvids that can solve problems faster than most people.

Barry Badrinath

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I share your opinion OP.

I'm a dog lover but I'm not fanatical -- even working dogs are cognitively oblivious to the role they perform; they're not family, and they must never be mistreated & abused by applying anthropomorphic principles to them.

I have seen many dogs ending up with behavioural difficulties because of owners who insisted on treating their pets like little furry humans.

One of the core principles of good dog-management is knowing how to distinguish between human and canine responsibilities.

Dogs can be brave, but this dog did not understand the role he performed. The concept of saving lives would have been lost on him.

I'm sure this approach will be rebutted by some canine hairdresser, but the basic principle remains: canines respond to fairly basic stimuli and are generally incapable of complex cognitive processes. Brave dogs exist, but hardly 'heroes'.

Bullshiiiiiiiiiit!

If that dog saved at least one persons life during it's service, it's a hero in my book.

The dog may not be able to comprehend the importance of it's function but that's irrelevant.

If I was stuck under an overwhelming amount of rubble and debris, unconscious and unable to call for help. Id be delighted if there was a well trained rescue dog, whose purpose it was to detect me and hopefully, save my life.

As would you.

HensVassal

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

If that dog saved a lot of lives, why shouldn't it receive some acknowledgement? RIP to the dog. The handler must be devastated.

Christ, there's that word again...."devastated".

A town or city is devastated after an earthquake.

"Johnny didn't qualify for the tin whistle finals. He's devastated"

"the cat ran away, the family are said to be devastated".

Mr. CooL ICE

HensVassal wrote: »

Christ, there's that word again...."devastated".

A town or city is devastated after an earthquake.

"Johnny didn't qualify for the tin whistle finals. He's devastated"

"the cat ran away, the family are said to be devastated".

Uhh, what?

ScumLord

McGruber wrote: »

The dog may not be able to comprehend the importance of it's function but that's irrelevant.

If only people had the same level of work ethic a dog has. Whenever you see a dog working they're 100% focused on what they're doing, they get excited when they know they're going to work. They look delighted when they achieve the task they set out to achieve.

A rescue dog must have some idea what it's doing. They understand human pain, even emotional pain, they know a persons trapped and injured and that if they find them the person will be safe. Maybe when it comes to something like searching for drugs they don't understand the implications of their actions, they may be a bit perplexed by the anxiety of the people they point out, but a rescue dog probably knows exactly what it's doing and the implications of its actions. They probably don't contemplate the dangers the way humans do, so a human is probably more heroic in that they know they're putting their life on the line.

lawlolawl

We hate actual heroes in this country. Kick a ball around or something, however, and Irish people will call you a 'hero'.

Pathetic.

Honoring rescue animals/workers who actually save people lives is a very laudable thing.

MadsL

have we gone doggone nuts? Has the US gone 9/11 nuts?

Meanwhile in Ireland;

Military Honours in the form of Gun Salutes will consist of twenty-one guns, except in the case of a gun salute to the Blessed Sacrament, when a salute of 50 guns will be fired

http://www.military.ie/info-centre/df-ceremonial/

Jimoslimos

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Animals get treated like **** quite frequently, it's nice to see them being treated with some respect every now and again.

The answer to that is to spend more time and money on better welfare for mistreated and neglected animals, not pointless pomp and circumstance for actual well-treated dogs. Working dogs often have a more fulfilling and rewarding life than many "pets" who get abandoned for much of the day.

ScumLord wrote: »

Honoring the animals that benefit us has been a tradition that likely goes back to the earliest hunters, who would honor the animals they killed. I think it's something we should bring back, we should be honoring cattle in this country like we did in the past, without them we wouldn't be the same country.

What, like death notices so? Dunno, seems all a bit quasi-religious IMO. Ain't nobody got time for a minute silence of remembrance over a tasty rump steak.

McGruber wrote: »

Bullshiiiiiiiiiit!

If that dog saved at least one persons life during it's service, it's a hero in my book.

The dog may not be able to comprehend the importance of it's function but that's irrelevant.

If I was stuck under an overwhelming amount of rubble and debris, unconscious and unable to call for help. Id be delighted if there was a well trained rescue dog, whose purpose it was to detect me and hopefully, save my life.

As would you.

If it can't comprehend the importance then how can it be regarded as a "hero" (a much overused word anyway). For all the dog knew it may have just been another training exercise.

Yes if I was trapped I'd be delighted if there was a well-trained rescue dog to alert others to my presence. But I'd also be just as if not more appreciative at the number of man-hours (human ones you know) that went into training and handling the dog.

An American on Reddit put it best, and I paraphrase: "that dog's done more for America than I ever will."

100% deserves to be treated with as much honour and respect as they showed her on her way out.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Anyone here old enough to remember the stuffed Labrador dog in The Moving Crib, Parnell St (Dublin)?.

It was supposed to have rescued two drowning boys from the river Liffey.

Anyone remember him?.

Anyway to the OP. I thought it was a lovely way to honor the service the dog gave.

Poor, brave girl.

Two Tone

lawlolawl wrote: »

We hate actual heroes in this country.

We do?

AbusesToilets

Lets make fun of a society for honoring those who gave their lives to help others, be they human or otherwise.

Ireland, nuff said

RobbingBandit

South Park will have a field day with this. Hard to believe it will be 15 years this September since 9/11.

Two Tone

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Lets make fun of a society for honoring those who gave their lives to help others, be they human or otherwise.

Ireland, nuff said

Is that really an Irish thing?

Anyway, I love dogs but I can see where people of both biews are coming from - a guard of honour for an animal is a bit strange I think. There is a degree of anthropomorphism to it.

On the other hand, no harm in such a nice, fitting symbolic gesture for its own sake.

lawlolawl

Two Tone wrote: »

We do?

Yup. We do little or nothing to honour war dead as a nation. We constantly complain about EMTs/doctors/nurses being overpaid, useless, greedy etc.

But score a try or a point or whatever and we will call you a "hero" without a hint of irony about the fact that you are just playing a game.

Samaris

Er, maybe there's more to the story than that, but "the dog was brought to be put down at the end of its working life" and then given a guard of honour, etcetera.


At the end of its -working- life? Unless the dog was in pain or sick, could it not have a nice retirement with a good family? Surely someone would have taken her if she was that well-regarded.

Is that just awkward phrasing or am I justifiably bemused?

SEPT 23 1989

Samaris wrote: »

Er, maybe there's more to the story than that, but "the dog was brought to be put down at the end of its working life" and then given a guard of honour, etcetera.


At the end of its -working- life? Unless the dog was in pain or sick, could it not have a nice retirement with a good family? Surely someone would have taken her if she was that well-regarded.

Is that just awkward phrasing or am I justifiably bemused?

She looked fairly knackered looking walking up that path

End of life

Samaris

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

She looked fairly knackered looking walking up that path

End of life

Fair enough - my internet can't cope with videos at the moment so I was just going on the text.

HensVassal

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Uhh, what?

I'm bitching about the overuse of the word "devastated" for every single bit of minor upset.

The handler ins't "devastated". He's probably sad.

stoneill

I dare say the dog earned the respect a whole lot more than some people.
And I would also say the handler is more than sad - mourning a loss of a loved pet is devastating.

padd b1975

Nobody does schmaltz quite like the Americans.

HensVassal

lawlolawl wrote: »

Yup. We do little or nothing to honour war dead as a nation. We constantly complain about EMTs/doctors/nurses being overpaid, useless, greedy etc.

But score a try or a point or whatever and we will call you a "hero" without a hint of irony about the fact that you are just playing a game.

Nobody is advocating that the dog not be appreciated but a guard of honour is just plain stupid. Typical American over-the-top, over-dramatic, nonsense. There are probably rescue dogs and guide dogs euthanised every other week in the US but this is just a publicity stunt to keep 9/11 fresh in the mind since it's starting to fade from memory.

maudgonner

Samaris wrote: »

Er, maybe there's more to the story than that, but "the dog was brought to be put down at the end of its working life" and then given a guard of honour, etcetera.


At the end of its -working- life? Unless the dog was in pain or sick, could it not have a nice retirement with a good family? Surely someone would have taken her if she was that well-regarded.

Is that just awkward phrasing or am I justifiably bemused?

It's awkward phrasing, the dog was retired from search & rescue a number of years ago. She continued to live with her handler and was put down due to bad health & old age, not because she was no longer useful.

Mr. CooL ICE

HensVassal wrote: »

The handler ins't "devastated". He's probably sad.

Is that so? I think you're wrong. Dog handlers entire job is based around working directly with a creature with emotions and personality and going by the dog's age, has probably been with him for 15+ years. It would be like losing a work colleague that is also a great friend.

If most people lost a work colleague whom they were immensely friendly with for 15 years, I highly doubt the emotion felt would just be a bit of sadness.

elastics

Jesus ... why are they killing him, couldn't they have brought him down to cousin hanks farm ?