An Post

Foggy Jew

Can An Post cease delivering mail addressed to an individual off their own bat i.e. no instruction from the individual himself? Decision appears to have been taken by An Post based on 'local knowledge' (aka gossip)?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Depends on the reason (gossip) I suppose. Your query is a bit vague.

Jack Killian

Foggy Jew wrote: »

Can An Post cease delivering mail addressed to an individual off their own bat i.e. no instruction from the individual himself? Decision appears to have been taken by An Post based on 'local knowledge' (aka gossip)?

As in "local gossip" said the person died / moved / emigrated / went on a long holiday, and the postman stopped delivering ?

There's a chance that the postie might view it as doing them a favour, as a buildup of mail on the hall floor, visible through the letterbox or glass, could be an invite to a breakin.

Foggy Jew

The person certainly no longer resides at the address. However, An Post were never informed of this officially. Remaining family still live there. My question is whether An Post were entitled to use 'Local Knowledge' instead of a direction from either the individual himself or another resident at the address to stop delivering mail.

RichT

How do you know the "individual himself" hasn't set up a redirection or a MailMinder for himself?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

If the person wants post delivered there and no longer lives there then he/she should address it as c/o the address. Of course if they are pulling a fast one for insurance quotes etc that may not suit but isn't the fault of An Post. They don't have to be 'officially' told an address in incorrect if they know it to be so.

Sleeper12

Foggy Jew wrote:

Can An Post cease delivering mail addressed to an individual off their own bat i.e. no instruction from the individual himself? Decision appears to have been taken by An Post based on 'local knowledge' (aka gossip)?

An Post can deliver mail to country addresses without house numbers etc. They can do this because they have local knowledge. I can't see why they can't see why it wouldn't work the same way, using the same local knowledge to know that someone no longer lives at the address.

I would imagine someone has set up a redirection. Otherwise the mail would be returned to sender. I can't imagine An Post holding the mail on a shelf somewhere. It has to go forward or back imo.

gumbo1

I moved out of my parents house 16 years ago and still get post delivered there. The dogs on the street know I don't live there anymore. I didn't redirect some of my mail as I moved about a bit and spent some time abroad. IMO, no is the answer to your question. Now, I'm Dublin based so that may be a reason why the postie still delivers. If it was a rural setting where everybody knows everyone and the postie is a neighbour then it could be likely but other than that I imagine that someone has asked for the mail to be kept in the local office.

irishgirl19

Well there was a mix up with an elderly couple around the corner from me. I kept getting hospital appointments for them. Our addresses are the same except for we're 'the road' and they're 'the avenue'. I asked an post why the postman didn't just drop it around to them as he would've known it was for them and I was told it had to be delivered to the name printed on the envelope

Foggy Jew

RichT wrote: »

How do you know the "individual himself" hasn't set up a redirection or a MailMinder for himself?

Because I have verbal, email & written confirmation from him that he never put such a direction in place.

Foggy Jew

Sleeper12 wrote: »

An Post can deliver mail to country addresses without house numbers etc. They can do this because they have local knowledge. I can't see why they can't see why it wouldn't work the same way, using the same local knowledge to know that someone no longer lives at the address.

I would imagine someone has set up a redirection. Otherwise the mail would be returned to sender. I can't imagine An Post holding the mail on a shelf somewhere. It has to go forward or back imo.

No redirection was ever put in place. I have confirmation of that.

Foggy Jew

Another family member moved away 7 years ago. Mail is still being delivered to him. The subject of my query disappeared in 'scandalous' circumstances, and was the talk of the parish. I resent the fact that An Post employees seem to be reacting to salacious gossip.

Fred Swanson

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Kristopherus

Foggy Jew wrote: »

Another family member moved away 7 years ago. Mail is still being delivered to him. The subject of my query disappeared in 'scandalous' circumstances, and was the talk of the parish. I resent the fact that An Post employees seem to be reacting to salacious gossip.

Go for a long peaceful walk and get rid of the big chip off your shoulder.:rolleyes:

Sleeper12

Foggy Jew wrote:

Another family member moved away 7 years ago. Mail is still being delivered to him. The subject of my query disappeared in 'scandalous' circumstances, and was the talk of the parish. I resent the fact that An Post employees seem to be reacting to salacious gossip.

How do you know he/she didn't redirect the post?
The post is either being delivered somewhere or all the post is being returned to sender. Its much more likely that this person went into a different post office anywhere in the country and filled in a redirection form. Their own family wouldn't know this unless he told them. It doesn't look like a big mystery to me

joeysoap

An post deliver mail as addressed.simples. If you have proof that such mail is not being delivered as addressed complain to the delivery manager. If you are in a rural area the sorting office closest to you will have a manager. Why don't you post a letter to this person and see if it's delivered ( put a different address for the sender), and if it's not delivered you have proof for the manager. My son's mail is delivered here as well as to his house no problem. As far as I can see all his 'new' post (utility, Sky etc ) to his address, all his 'old' stuff ( P60, union letters) is delivered here.

gerard2210

I'm a postie. I delivered mail to a blokes home house known he had moved away. One day I had a phone bill or something his mother refused it telling me he no longer lived there. So I started returning his mail to sender. Few weeks later his mother was wondering why his mail was been returned . The postie can't win.

Fred Swanson

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ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Just ask the manager at the sorting office. He'll tell you. Case closed.

gerard2210

Fred Swanson wrote:

I am right in thinking mail can only be "returned to sender" if someone refuses it? Otherwise it must be delivered to the address?

Should only be returned to sender if refused or postman is told by someone at the address that the person no longer resides at the address.

Foggy Jew

Thank you, Kristopherus for your valued input. Perhaps a walk along with me in my shoes may help you.
I have sent a registered letter to the party concerned, from my work address & it was returned to me as 'gone away'.
An Post steadfastly argues that once a person is known not to live at an address, they will not deliver their mail. Fine.
What I need to know is what criteria is used by An Post to determine that a person is no longer at an address.

Is it, as I suspect, local gossip? Is that sufficient grounds for not delivering post?

rock22

Foggy Jew wrote: »

Thank you, Kristopherus for your valued input. Perhaps a walk along with me in my shoes may help you.
I have sent a registered letter to the party concerned, from my work address & it was returned to me as 'gone away'.
An Post steadfastly argues that once a person is known not to live at an address, they will not deliver their mail. Fine.
What I need to know is what criteria is used by An Post to determine that a person is no longer at an address.

Is it, as I suspect, local gossip? Is that sufficient grounds for not delivering post?

Knowing, from personal knowledge, that someone is no longer at an address should be sufficient for the postman to return the letter.Such personal knowledge is not "gossip" as you described it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Foggy Jew wrote: »

Thank you, Kristopherus for your valued input. Perhaps a walk along with me in my shoes may help you.
I have sent a registered letter to the party concerned, from my work address & it was returned to me as 'gone away'.
An Post steadfastly argues that once a person is known not to live at an address, they will not deliver their mail. Fine.
What I need to know is what criteria is used by An Post to determine that a person is no longer at an address.

Is it, as I suspect, local gossip? Is that sufficient grounds for not delivering post?

If you accept their stance that they don't deliver if a person is known not to live somewhere, the means of them knowing is immaterial. At no point have you said the common knowledge was wrong.

Fred Swanson

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my3cents

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Its black and white but this is Ireland so of course there is a lot of grey.

The postman has to deliver to the address NOT THE NAME on the mail. BUT he may have to use local knowledge to deliver mail that has a non unique address where the name identifies who lives at the address.

....................... postman just arrived at the gate with a parcel and he said the same also that if he did that he could get in a lot of trouble.

Sleeper12

Fred Swanson wrote:

This flies in the face of An Post official policy that they must deliver the address named.

My understanding is that it is the person named at that address. If an post know that the named person is no longer living there it gets returned to sender.

Fred Swanson

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my3cents

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I was just talking to our postman and he can loose his job by making decisions like that. If the person has moved to Australia for example then comes back and makes a complaint that their mail hasn't been delivered while they were away he is screwed because he hasn't been doing his job. So he might know the person has gone to Australia but for all he knows someone else at the house will pick up and forward the mail.

However the postman can do whatever they want if there are no complaints.

Sleeper12

Fred Swanson wrote:

Is that an official policy?

Just talking to my own post man here in Dublin. He says if it is a country address (no house number) then the name on the envelope is actually part of the address & it can't be delivered if they know that the named person doesn't live there because it becomes it would be an incomplete address.
He said there nothing unusual about this scenario

Fred Swanson

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Sleeper12

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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If.

OP hasn't said for sure yet

my3cents

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If.

OP hasn't said for sure yet

All OP has to do is complain that mail isn't reaching its destination and then the postman has to deliver, or loose his job.

joeysoap

my3cents wrote: »

All OP has to do is complain that mail isn't reaching its destination and then the postman has to deliver, or loose his job.

Don't think that it's that simple. IF the postie KNOWS that a person is no longer residing at an address, I don't think he could lose his job for not delivering. It's not black and white as Gerard2210 said some people might pick and choose what to accept. As My3cents also posts if no complaints are made about post being delivered (for the person who has left) then it's unlikely to ever cause a problem. Is this a a very localised case in a rural area where it's common knowledge that a person has left?

* on the subject of knowledge I think it was the smaller post offices who brought the children's allowance 'irregularities' attention of social welfare ie non locals claiming child benefit every 6 months and not known in the area.

Sleeper12

my3cents wrote: »

All OP has to do is complain that mail isn't reaching its destination and then the postman has to deliver, or loose his job.

I think you missed the whole point of this thread. OP is asking in what ways would AN POST not deliver the mail, as she believes the mail hasn't been rerouted. She suspects its from gossip but she has confirmed its not gossip. So we are pointing out ways that this can happen.
The named person could have contacted AN Post. A family member could have contacted An Post. The local priest could have informed them. There are so many possibilities. It hasn't been established that the local postman has done anything wrong here. If the named person has been part of a scandal a crime they may be rejecting the mail due to hate mail.
As always here on boards there is only half of the story. Long story short OP hasn't established that An Post or the postman has done anything wrong

Jack Killian

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I think you missed the whole point of this thread. OP is asking in what ways would AN POST not deliver the mail, as she believes the mail hasn't been rerouted. She suspects its from gossip but she has confirmed its not gossip. So we are pointing out ways that this can happen.
The named person could have contacted AN Post. A family member could have contacted An Post. The local priest could have informed them. There are so many possibilities. It hasn't been established that the local postman has done anything wrong here. If the named person has been part of a scandal a crime they may be rejecting the mail due to hate mail.
As always here on boards there is only half of the story. Long story short OP hasn't established that An Post or the postman has done anything wrong

Local Garda, maybe, but local priest ? How would they have any authority ?

Foggy Jew

My question was, and remains, can An Post cease delivering mail to an individual without that individual's instruction, or without an instruction from somebody residing at that address.

P. Breathnach

And I think you got a clear answer: yes, if the name is an essential component of the address (as is often the case in rural areas); otherwise no.

Fred Swanson

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Sleeper12

Foggy Jew wrote:

My question was, and remains, can An Post cease delivering mail to an individual without that individual's instruction, or without an instruction from somebody residing at that address.

How do you know the the person no longer living at the address didn't ask an post. You still haven't answered this?

Foggy Jew

Sleeper12 wrote: »

How do you know the the person no longer living at the address didn't ask an post. You still haven't answered this?

Because he has confirmed this to me, verbally, by email & by a signed letter. He has also emailed & written to An Post confirming no instruction was ever given to An Post & requesting a resumption of deliveries. An Post are refusing to do this, as they say ..... (Wait for it)..... He is no longer residing at the address.

Foggy Jew

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Believe me, I have. First I was told that a redirection was in place. When I queried this, they said 'Oops - sorry! No redirection is actually in place. But that doesnt really matter, because we know he's not living there'.

Sleeper12

Foggy Jew wrote: »

Because he has confirmed this to me, verbally, by email & by a signed letter. He has also emailed & written to An Post confirming no instruction was ever given to An Post & requesting a resumption of deliveries. An Post are refusing to do this, as they say ..... (Wait for it)..... He is no longer residing at the address.

Obviously we don't have the full story. Would the police have called looking for him & told he's not living there?
Same question TV license inspector

Would anybody refused registered mail cos it was a summons?

I'm just plucking straws here:o

my3cents

Foggy Jew wrote: »

Believe me, I have. First I was told that a redirection was in place. When I queried this, they said 'Oops - sorry! No redirection is actually in place. But that doesnt really matter, because we know he's not living there'.

Get on to comreg then they are the regulator for this area and have a history with An Post regarding delivery addresses, maybe they will look at this case and see it as one they can win.

To make the matter more cut and dry send a few letters with the correct Eircode because once an Eircode is used the mail is supposed to be delivered to the unique Eircode address and the addressees name becomes irrelevant. Those happen to be An Posts own rules according to my postman.

Sleeper12

my3cents wrote: »

Get on to comreg then they are the regulator for this area and have a history with An Post regarding delivery addresses, maybe they will look at this case and see it as one they can win.

To make the matter more cut and dry send a few letters with the correct Eircode because once an Eircode is used the mail is supposed to be delivered to the unique Eircode address and the addressees name becomes irrelevant. Those happen to be An Posts own rules according to my postman.

It's sad to say but despite the money it cost to set up An Post still doesn't use Eircode as a rule. There's also nothing in the law to say they have to. The last goverment in their wisdom decided they wouldn't force anyone to use it.:(

Foggy Jew

There was no crimnal activity. The police were not involved. I have lodged a complaint with Comreg, and copied them with all correspondence.
I posted my original query here to see if anybody knew what An Post's official line is.
My feeling is that a local delivery person cocked up, and instead of putting their hands up & admitting their mistake, An Post are circling the wagons and making me out to be the bad guy.

Clearly nobody on here knows An Post's official policy.
Perhaps Comreg will clear the matter up.
I will post (!) again when I hear back from Comreg.

my3cents

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's sad to say but despite the money it cost to set up An Post still doesn't use Eircode as a rule. There's also nothing in the law to say they have to. The last goverment in their wisdom decided they wouldn't force anyone to use it.:(

Doesn't matter. If the OP can prove that correctly addressed mail that includes a correct Eircode isn't being delivered then An Post will have to be very creative finding an excuse for Comreg.

gerard2210

Official policy is that mail has to be delivered as addressed unless instructed by addressee or someone at the address not to deliver. But we don't know why the postie stopped delivering the mail.
Had a family on my route I knew the son was living at home but every month the meteor bill would be returned to my bench marked "No longer at this address". I could have taken that as a message that they no longer wanted his mail delivered. It was just the meteor bill that was returned never the social welfare cheque.

Foggy Jew

A family member does not reside at our address any more. He left instructions with me to deal with any mail which came for him. I noticed that no post had arrived for ages, and I phoned An Post, who told me that a Redirection had been put in place by the individual. I checked with the family member, and he assured me that no such redirection was done by him. I reverted to An Post, who said 'Oops, sorry - we made a mistake, you are right. No redirection is in place for this individual'. I enquired why no post was being delivered, and was told that the delivery person knew that the family member no longer resided at the address, so all mail was being returned to sender, marked 'Gone Away'. I followed this up by sending a registered letter to the individual from my workplace, and lo and behold, it was returned marked 'Gone Away'. I complained to the Customer Services Dept, the Consumer Advocate and to ComReg, all of whom told me that as I was not the intended recipient of the mail, they could not discuss the matter with me. When I pointed out to the Customer Services Dept that this family member had mental health issues, I was told that in view of this, they would not accept any communication from him, unless it was authenticated and witnessed. (He now lives in Aisa).
Then I took another tack, and resubmitted my complaint, stating that I, as a Postal Service user, wanted to complain that the registered letter I had sent was not delivered to the intended recipient, I was told that 'As it is known that the individual no longer resides at the address, the letter was returned to sender'.
Nobody at this address informed An Post that this family member doesn't live here anymore. No instruction was given by my family member to cease delivering mail. They keep using non specific words like 'It is known'... and refuse to tell me how 'it is known'...... because I am not the intended recipient.
Both I and my family member are really aggrieved by this.
Anybody got any suggestions where I should go from here

Thoie

"Hello, I'm Bob, the intended recipient, and I'd like to complain that my post isn't being delivered..."


The person on the phone won't know (or particularly care) if you're Bob or not. Just say you're Bob and you're home and you'd like to get your post please.

If they've actually made a note on his "account" (does An Post even have accounts for individuals?) that he has mental health issues, I'd kick up a huge fuss - An Post are not the right people to be storing that kind of information.

kravmaga

From reading this there is a possibility that the family member in question may have been in contact with An Post to re-direct the mail without your knowledge, this is possible and you have to be open that this happened.

If the family member is now living in Asia , why is this a big deal?

Foggy Jew

Ok - Sorry. I suppose I should have continued on the old thread. This is a big deal because it seems that An Post will take the word of any Tom Dick or Harry that Bob no longer lives in Number 59, and will just stop delivering his letters. Does this mean that I can ring An Post & say Kravmaga no longer lives Chez Kravmaga & they will take my word for it????? Also - my 'Bob' left a pile of unfinished business behind him, which I was attempting to sort out.