Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
The 10 commandments......
Options
Comments
-
Surely if we dont have our bodies in any kind of afterlife, will that mean our brain and memories dont go with us? perhaps the Hindus are on to something and we are all reincarnations of other animals who spent a good life, we just dont know it as we left our memories in our previous body???
Not IF we don't have our bodies, we don't! our brain doesn't go with us. Our memories are part of our brains so......
We don't know what happens, so you and I can speculate all day. I would love to think the Christian beliefs about the afterlife are true, but I can't see a God being humanlike in reality, sitting there conferring with angels and saints, asking their opinions. Not very likely, but that shouldn't stop us dreaming.0 -
Not IF we don't have our bodies, we don't! our brain doesn't go with us. Our memories are part of our brains so......
We don't know what happens, so you and I can speculate all day. I would love to think the Christian beliefs about the afterlife are true, but I can't see a God being humanlike in reality, sitting there conferring with angels and saints, asking their opinions. Not very likely, but that shouldn't stop us dreaming.
Good morning!
Who said God was human like? The only sense which we can see this is in so far that God can relate to us personally. We are in His image in that respect. In another sense we see that in Jesus. But there are copious ways we are not like God also. The conferring with angel thing seems to be folk religion rather than Biblical.
It far too simplistic to say you reject Christianity for that reason. It sounds unconsidered or at least not fully considered.
Much thanks in the Lord Jesus Christ,
solodeogloria0 -
solodeogloria wrote: »Good morning!
Who said God was human like? The only sense which we can see this is in so far that God can relate to us personally. We are in His image in that respect. In another sense we see that in Jesus. But there are copious ways we are not like God also. The conferring with angel thing seems to be folk religion rather than Biblical.
When someone posts "When I pray 'to' a Saint, I'm basically asking him or her to present my petition to God in a manner more favourable than I can. As perfect as I am among humans, I'm just a bit off when it comes to the inhabitants of Heaven." That is presenting God in a Humanlike form, with human attributes.solodeogloria wrote: »far too simplistic to say you reject Christianity for that reason. It sounds unconsidered or at least not fully considered.
Who said anything about rejecting Christianity?0 -
When someone posts "When I pray 'to' a Saint, I'm basically asking him or her to present my petition to God in a manner more favourable than I can. As perfect as I am among humans, I'm just a bit off when it comes to the inhabitants of Heaven." That is presenting God in a Humanlike form, with human attributes.
Who said anything about rejecting Christianity?
Good afternoon!
I agree with you about praying to saints. It isn't Biblical. All Christians have direct access in prayer to our Father in heaven through Jesus Christ. We don't need saints to intercede for us.
You said "I'd love to believe Christian beliefs about the afterlife are true" which implies that you don't believe in Christian views on the afterlife. I'm sorry if I'm wrong, that's my mistake.
What confused me more is that conferring with saints and angels bit. That as far as I'm concerned with doesn't seem to be in the Bible.
Much thanks in the Lord Jesus Christ,
solodeogloria0 -
For a very simple reason. They can't hear you. You might as well walk into your garden and pray to a tree.
"He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive." Lk 20:38
Jesus, during the transfiguration on the Mt., communicated with Moses and Elijah who had died between 10 and 20 Centuries beforehand. Jesus was a practising Jew who never broke the least commandment. How could he communicate with the dead without breaking the Law?
Sigh....The Saints aren't worshiped as a god, in and of themselves. Surely you knew this?! Nearly becoming a CB and all...Renee Howling Quadrangle wrote: »Whenever we pray to anyone or thing other than God, we make them take the place of the creator.
Even John in Revelation when he worships the angel is rebuked and told not to.
I see him in the Eucharist. "This is my body..." It really is Jesus.Renee Howling Quadrangle wrote: »Not one of us has seen Jesus, who is also God.
I suppose the Japs worship each other when they bow as a greeting? God forbids it!!!Renee Howling Quadrangle wrote: »What takes place before statues and icons in any church falls under the definition off worship. God forbids it.
Wait...you use the fact that Jesus gave us a direct link to the Father as a reason why people in Heaven can't directly ask the Father on our behalf here? Christ didn't say one can only talk to the Father (did he?) and I notice you've neglected to answer the Q put to you about asking others to pray for you or your intentions? In Rev 8 (4?) an angel presents to God a censer filled with incense and the prayers of all the Saints. How dare God do such a thing! Why didn't He let us deliver them ourselves....Renee Howling Quadrangle wrote: »Jesus Himself said the time would come when we wouldn't even pray to the Father in His Name, but would ask the Father directly. As referred to above, John was told not to worship the angel.
If Scripture is so clear, were is the justification for praying to a heavenly being or person.
You might well have been awake but you definitely weren't getting the gist of what was being said....a discussion on Exodus and Kings at 11pm should be enough to put a person to sleep...Renee Howling Quadrangle wrote: »I was awake and what I said was accurate. If you disagree with it, that's another issue and is entirely your own.This is really presenting God as some sort of judge, sitting on a throne not really able to make his own mind up about issues. He requires the help of some intermediaries and that is ridiculous, given he is an all knowing, all powerful, all loving, omnipotent being.
I think it's your misunderstanding of what was written or my less than spectacular explanation. God is a judge who sits on a throne but I can't say whether He knows His own mind or not...I do think He allows Himself to be swayed on certain issues though. If that makes what you consider a non-existent entity ridiculous, so be it.0 -
Advertisement
-
Actually, that is in your mind. It really is bread, 100%. But if you see Jesus in it, that is great.lazybones32 wrote: »I see him in the Eucharist. "This is my body..." It really is Jesus.
There we go, humanising God again. This is a spiritual place. There are no "thrones" in a spiritual world. But I understand the metaphor.lazybones32 wrote: »I think it's your misunderstanding of what was written or my less than spectacular explanation. God is a judge who sits on a throne but I can't say whether He knows His own mind or not...I do think He allows Himself to be swayed on certain issues though. If that makes what you consider a non-existent entity ridiculous, so be it.0 -
lazybones32 wrote: »"He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive." Lk 20:38
Jesus, during the transfiguration on the Mt., communicated with Moses and Elijah who had died between 10 and 20 Centuries beforehand. Jesus was a practising Jew who never broke the least commandment. How could he communicate with the dead without breaking the Law?.
How could Jesus, the Son of God, God in the flesh, communicate with those who live in his presence? I think you've answered your own question there.
There is no comparison between the event you describe and you or me getting down on our knees to pray to the dead. Besides, scripture tells us we have one mediator, Jesus Christ. We know he hears our prayer. Why go anywhere else? Its completely illogical and shows mistrust in scripture and in the power of God.0 -
Could you clarify what you mean by this? (It seems like you've made a U-turn but I'm not sure)How could Jesus, the Son of God, God in the flesh, communicate with those who live in his presence? I think you've answered your own question there.There is no comparison between the event you describe and you or me getting down on our knees to pray to the dead. Besides, scripture tells us we have one mediator, Jesus Christ. We know he hears our prayer. Why go anywhere else? Its completely illogical and shows mistrust in scripture and in the power of God.
No, there is no comparison....because I don't pray to the dead: I ask my living brothers and sisters who can see God face-to-face to also ask for me. Seeing as most Catholics begin and end prayer "In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" it's wrong to accuse one of 'going anywhere else'...0 -
Good morning!
Let's roll back a bit. Forget the living and the dead thing.
Why do you think praying to saints is a worthwhile activity?
I think it betrays the fact that you think that saints have a better standing with God than you do. If so, that's really sad. Jesus died for you so you can have a direct relationship with the Father.
Much thanks in the Lord Jesus Christ,
solodeogloria0 -
I've always wondered about this. What exactly does it mean?solodeogloria wrote: »Jesus died for you so you can have a direct relationship with the Father.
Does this question belong in a new thread?0 -
Advertisement
-
"Forget the living and dead thing"?! You write it as if it were a thing of little consequence...Isn't this the exact wage paid to the person employed in the early morning and the one hired at the eleventh hour?
How often must I write: I do not pray to Saints as if they were gods in and of themselves. I pray 'to' them because prayer is the means of communicating with those who live in a different realm (beyond the physical means employed by humans - letter, text, phone call, face-to-face meeting). I ask my brothers and sisters, whose life and devotion to Our Lord has inspired me, to ask also on my behalf. It is not some servile fear that motivates me to seek their help, or a notion that I am unworthy to even ask Him (although I am), rather it is formed by my own impatience, my confidence in their confidence and faith and the fact that God moves far too slow for my personal liking - He says so Himself that He likes to be plagued by our petitions (my paraphrasing).
If you knew someone who had perfect faith, perfect trust, perfect hope, perfect love, perfect confidence and perfect conformity to the Divine Will (where they desire nothing that God wouldn't desire), would you not ask that person to pray for you or to help you to reach the degree that God has ordained for you? If I ask a person whose body is still animated, to pray for an intention of mine, how is this different from asking a person whose spirit is in the presence of the Trinity to pray for my intention? I am not constrained by time or mortality, thanks be to God. I try to ultilise the full armoury of God by calling on those who have won the race - how do we know they've won the race? We don't...fully, but we can judge that Christ will not leave those who've persevered to the end to suffer exclusion. God is glorified in His Saints because they serve to glorify the all-encompassing nature of His mercy. He knows that we are but dust and ashes and that we need to be saved by one of our own...0 -
lazybones32 wrote: »"Forget the living and dead thing"?! You write it as if it were a thing of little consequence...Isn't this the exact wage paid to the person employed in the early morning and the one hired at the eleventh hour?
How often must I write: I do not pray to Saints as if they were gods in and of themselves. I pray 'to' them because prayer is the means of communicating with those who live in a different realm (beyond the physical means employed by humans - letter, text, phone call, face-to-face meeting). I ask my brothers and sisters, whose life and devotion to Our Lord has inspired me, to ask also on my behalf. It is not some servile fear that motivates me to seek their help, or a notion that I am unworthy to even ask Him (although I am), rather it is formed by my own impatience, my confidence in their confidence and faith and the fact that God moves far too slow for my personal liking - He says so Himself that He likes to be plagued by our petitions (my paraphrasing).
If you knew someone who had perfect faith, perfect trust, perfect hope, perfect love, perfect confidence and perfect conformity to the Divine Will (where they desire nothing that God wouldn't desire), would you not ask that person to pray for you or to help you to reach the degree that God has ordained for you? If I ask a person whose body is still animated, to pray for an intention of mine, how is this different from asking a person whose spirit is in the presence of the Trinity to pray for my intention? I am not constrained by time or mortality, thanks be to God. I try to ultilise the full armoury of God by calling on those who have won the race - how do we know they've won the race? We don't...fully, but we can judge that Christ will not leave those who've persevered to the end to suffer exclusion. God is glorified in His Saints because they serve to glorify the all-encompassing nature of His mercy. He knows that we are but dust and ashes and that we need to be saved by one of our own...
The Bible calls that necromancy and medium ship. We are forbidden to contact the dead.0
Advertisement