Ending tenancy to do weekly letting

hollytrees

Does anyone know if I can give my tenants notice to use my house for weekly lettings. My tenants have been there for 5 years. Thanks

athtrasna

hollytrees wrote: »

Does anyone know if I can give my tenants notice to use my house for weekly lettings. My tenants have been there for 5 years. Thanks

They are effectively on their second part iv tenancy period and as such are entitled to stay in the property unless very specific situations arise. Wanting to do weekly tenancies is not one such situation whereby you can terminate a tenancy legally.

Mod note Any suggestions of ways to falsify situations that can legally terminate a part iv tenancy to subsequently let on a weekly basis will attract moderator actions.

hollytrees

If the notice was so that I can put the house on the market surely I am allowed to rent it out weekly.

The rent does not cover the mortgage and maintenance of the property so I cannot continue to let it. I have already increased the rent so a rent increase is not an option

athtrasna

hollytrees wrote: »

If the notice was so that I can put the house on the market surely I am allowed to rent it out weekly.

The rent does not cover the mortgage and maintenance of the property so I cannot continue to let it. I have already increased the rent so a rent increase is not an option

You can't legally evict based on intention to sell and then re-let immediately. That would see you in front of a RTB tribunal.

hollytrees

But if my intention is to sell it but that could take a while. I will still have to pay my mortgage while it's on the market. I am in financial difficulties over buying this house, surely I am entitled to ask the tenants to move. The tenants aren't keeping it that well so I intend to paint it and clean it up a bit when I put it on the market. It is in a tourist area so I know I would get some weekly lettings. I can't understand why this would be illegal

ED E

The law isn't there to suit your balance sheet.

foggy_lad

Sounds like you think you will make more money from using AirBnB

Graham

hollytrees wrote: »

I can't understand why this would be illegal

It would be in your own interest to familiarise yourself with a landlords obligations and the potential penalties for ignoring those regulations.

Aka Ishur

Graham wrote: »

It would be in your own interest to familiarise yourself with a landlords obligations and the potential penalties for ignoring those regulations.

Especially with the new regs... Be a fool to play fast and loose.

hollytrees

Aka Ishur wrote: »

Especially with the new regs... Be a fool to play fast and loose.

Where can I learn about those regs. I'm not trying to pull a fast one. My circumstances have changed since I bought the house and I need to sort out my finances. I'm not looking to break the law but am really stressed about money

foggy_lad

hollytrees wrote: »

Where can I learn about those regs. I'm not trying to pull a fast one. My circumstances have changed since I bought the house and I need to sort out my finances. I'm not looking to break the law but am really stressed about money

Check out the PRTB website, you should have the tenancy registered with the PRTB.

http://www.prtb.ie/landlords

http://www.prtb.ie/docs/default-source/landlord-guides/rtb-landlord-guide.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Water John

If you are financially stressed, sell the house and give the tenants first refusal.

Some body who has lived there for 5 years and considers it, home, should not be shafted.
The constitutional right on property is not absolute. Others have rights too.

hollytrees

foggy_lad wrote: »

Check out the PRTB website, you should have the tenancy registered with the PRTB.

http://www.prtb.ie/landlords

I have it registered. Will have a look. Thanks for your help

myshirt

How man posts in and no one has mentioned the big issue....

Change of use of property.

Op, if I caught you trying to do this, I'd hammer you from the high heavens with the full force of the law. It is a residential property. You rent it for residential use.

hdowney

Could you talk to your tenants about your need to sell the property, with a view to coming to a mutual arrangement where they continue to let from you until the house is nearly sold and then move out? I know there would be complexities with this in arrangement, and should all be written down and signed by both parties and stuff, but it's just a suggestion. Since you are saying you can't afford to not have an income coming in from it whilst you wait to sell.

Speedwell

hdowney wrote: »

Could you talk to your tenants about your need to sell the property, with a view to coming to a mutual arrangement where they continue to let from you until the house is nearly sold and then move out? I know there would be complexities with this in arrangement, and should all be written down and signed by both parties and stuff, but it's just a suggestion. Since you are saying you can't afford to not have an income coming in from it whilst you wait to sell.

Technically, to request the tenants to move out on the basis of plans to sell, you need firm plans to sell, that is, evidence you have an agreement to turn the place over to an actual identifiable buyer upon completion of sale. Tentative "I put the place on the market" plans are not considered firm enough.

notharrypotter

hdowney wrote: »

whilst you wait to sell.

Based on the first post they does not appear to be looking to sell.
Merely rent it by the week
It would appear that the return would be greater.
It appears that they are in a situation where the rental income does not cover the underlying costs.

Options are limited.

One is to simply sell and cut their losses, this may not be an option.

Simply asking tenants to leave because they can make more by another method of letting is not gong to work

As i

myshirt

myshirt wrote: »

How man posts in and no one has mentioned the big issue....

Change of use of property.

Op, if I caught you trying to do this, I'd hammer you from the high heavens with the full force of the law. It is a residential property. You rent it for residential use.

its not an issue, everyone letting using Airbnb is the same and there is no issue with them bring residential I'm sure you are aware of this too so not sure why you think it would be a problem for the op. That's aside from the real problem
Of him him not being allowed give notice to the current tenants of course.

TheChizler

Speedwell wrote: »

hdowney wrote: »

Could you talk to your tenants about your need to sell the property, with a view to coming to a mutual arrangement where they continue to let from you until the house is nearly sold and then move out? I know there would be complexities with this in arrangement, and should all be written down and signed by both parties and stuff, but it's just a suggestion. Since you are saying you can't afford to not have an income coming in from it whilst you wait to sell.

Technically, to request the tenants to move out on the basis of plans to sell, you need firm plans to sell, that is, evidence you have an agreement to turn the place over to an actual identifiable buyer upon completion of sale. Tentative "I put the place on the market" plans are not considered firm enough.

That's to give official notice. This proposal would be entirely up to the tenants if they want to accept it. Maybe they'd be happy to leave voluntarily with a temporary reduced rent or something. Nothing illegal about coming to a mutual agreement as long as the tenants aren't forced into anything.

Speedwell

TheChizler wrote: »

That's to give official notice. This proposal would be entirely up to the tenants if they want to accept it. Maybe they'd be happy to leave voluntarily with a temporary reduced rent or something. Nothing illegal about coming to a mutual agreement as long as the tenants aren't forced into anything.

That makes sense, but the point of the previous poster that all agreements should be written down and signed makes me wonder if such an agreement might be construed as formal notice.

April 73

I'm trying to see this from both sides.

Tenants have security of tenure & no-one could argue that long-term renters should have some security.
However the OP owns the property, is struggling financially & yet is severely curtailed by law in what he can do to turn his investment profitable.
It's a difficult situation for the OP to be in.

I googled rents for an area of Dublin where I have a property. Average rents for similar properties are about €1350. I'm charging €1050 and have been for 18 months. During the recession I lowered the rent from €1200 at its peak to €900 in line with changes to the market. Now that prices have risen substantially I am restricted in my ability to raise the rent. Realistically I cannot increase the rent at the end of this year by €300, or possibly more if rent continue to rise. That seems like a huge increase to ask the current tenants for. Whatever increase I do ask for will then be fixed for at least two years.

So from my side of the fence, rightly or wrongly, I do feel that I am subsidising the current tenants on a Part IV tenancy at a rent far below market rates. Truthfully, I would be financially better off with new tenants paying the market rate. That's the reality.

hollytrees

I have to say I'm shocked after all the years I have worked hard to pay this mortgage and the sacrifices I made to pay for my own home this is the situation with tenants. It really does make you wonder who actually thinks they own the house. I certainly won't be entering into a long term renting situation in the future if this is the way house owners are treated. Thanks for all the helpful advice.

hollytrees

Just to answer the other query. I'd prefer if the existing tenants were to move before I put it on the market as if like to clean it up. They are actually very messy and I don't think it would give a good impression of the house for viewing.

Speedwell

hollytrees wrote: »

Just to answer the other query. I'd prefer if the existing tenants were to move before I put it on the market as if like to clean it up. They are actually very messy and I don't think it would give a good impression of the house for viewing.

As a tenant, I would be open to a landlord telling me that they wanted to sell, and giving me time and possibly a financial break to help me find a new place. I am not deaf to reason and I can certainly understand a property owner wishing to sell. I wouldn't even mind if you told me you wanted time to redd up the place before putting it up for sale. It seems obvious (in my particular case) that you would want to replace the worn carpeting and outdated fixtures.

Graham

hollytrees wrote: »

I have to say I'm shocked after all the years I have worked hard to pay this mortgage and the sacrifices I made to pay for my own home this is the situation with tenants. It really does make you wonder who actually thinks they own the house. I certainly won't be entering into a long term renting situation in the future if this is the way house owners are treated. Thanks for all the helpful advice.

I have to say I'm shocked that you're only now making yourself aware of your obligations as a landlord. I'm assuming 5 years ago when you initially rented the property out you were quite happy to accept the additional income and give up some of your rights as an owner in return.

zef

I feel sorry for your tenants. Your distain for them shines through your posts.

hollytrees

hollytrees wrote: »

Just to answer the other query. I'd prefer if the existing tenants were to move before I put it on the market as if like to clean it up. They are actually very messy and I don't think it would give a good impression of the house for viewing.

How significant is the work you plan on carrying out? Substantial renovations is the one other reason for ending part 4 (along with moving in yourself or selling).

Or would you consider moving in yourself for a while that would also give you a reason to give them notice and you could still rent out the rooms you are not staying in on Airbnb or under rent a room. Once you are living there a few months you could then go back to renting all rooms again you would just have to move in long enough not to land yourself in trouble with the RTB.

endacl

hollytrees wrote: »

But if my intention is to sell it but that could take a while. I will still have to pay my mortgage while it's on the market. I am in financial difficulties over buying this house, surely I am entitled to ask the tenants to move. The tenants aren't keeping it that well so I intend to paint it and clean it up a bit when I put it on the market. It is in a tourist area so I know I would get some weekly lettings. I can't understand why this would be illegal

That'd be your problem. You can't just make your problem somebody else's problem to suit yourself.

endacl

endacl wrote: »

That'd be your problem. You can't just make your problem somebody else's problem to suit yourself.

In fairness he owns the property, I do think property owners should have more control over their property than they currently do in some instances.

Graham

Alaia Deafening Macaroni wrote: »

How significant is the work you plan on carrying out? Substantial renovations is the one other reason for ending part 4

I don't think "I'd like to clean it up" qualifies as substantially refurbish or renovate the dwelling or the property containing the dwelling in a way which requires the dwelling to be vacated for that purpose.

It's also worth pointing out that should the property be made available for reletting after the 'substantial refurbishment', the property must be offered back to the evicted tenant.

hollytrees

zef wrote: »

I feel sorry for your tenants. Your distain for them shines through your posts.

I feel sorry for you if all you have for doing is coming on here making nasty comments. I own the house and wish to make it as presentable as possible to potential buyers so I am well within my rights to ask the tenants to move out.

I never planned to rent my house out but had to due to a sick relative. My question has been answered and I thank everyone who was able to tell me the answers in a civil manner so all you other trolls/time wasters do not need to respond.

bigpink

Tell them informally that your under finicial pressure and may have to sell soon and they might just go them selves soon

Graham

Graham wrote: »

It's also worth pointing out that should the property be made available for reletting after the 'substantial refurbishment', the property must be offered back to the evicted tenant.

Yeah I understand that, the fact they will almost definitely have signed a lease elsewhere though means you can offer but they won't be able to take you up on it.

bigpink wrote: »

Tell them informally that your under finicial pressure and may have to sell soon and they might just go them selves soon

Good point actually raising a bit of uncertainty may make them think it's time to move on of their own accord.

Graham

Alaia Deafening Macaroni wrote: »

Yeah I understand that, the fact they will almost definitely have signed a lease elsewhere though means you can offer but they won't be able to take you up on it.

That won't prevent the tenants from taking a case to the PRTB should the renovations turn out to be a lick of paint and a change of cushion covers.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

That won't prevent the tenants from taking a case to the PRTB should the renovations turn out to be a lick of paint and a change of cushion covers.

I know that hence why I asked how significant the renovations were. With all the facts people are in a better position to help the op.

Full Marx

You should have researched all this before becoming a landlord. You cannot do what you want to do is the answer. What you can do is sell the house or suck it up and next time look before you leap.

Graham

hollytrees wrote: »

I own the house and wish to make it as presentable as possible to potential buyers so I am well within my rights to ask the tenants to move out.

I never planned to rent my house out but had to due to a sick relative. My question has been answered and I thank everyone who was able to tell me the answers in a civil manner so all you other trolls/time wasters do not need to respond.

In the space of 24 hours you have switched position from 'ending tenancy to do weekly letting' to evicting tenants so you can tidy up for selling. Rightly or wrongly, it's understandable that some people would conclude you're not genuinely planning to sell the property.

curiousoranje

hollytrees wrote: »

I feel sorry for you if all you have for doing is coming on here making nasty comments. I own the house and wish to make it as presentable as possible to potential buyers so I am well within my rights to ask the tenants to move out.

I never planned to rent my house out but had to due to a sick relative. My question has been answered and I thank everyone who was able to tell me the answers in a civil manner so all you other trolls/time wasters do not need to respond.

And when the LT tenants (whom you've already raised rent upon)you turfed out see the property on airbnb (your original and actual reason for evicting) they will be well within their rights to bring you up in front of the PRTB.

Paulw

Mod Note: Thread closed. I think the OP has plenty of advice here.