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Should another Garda Commissioner resign?

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    #1772
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,272 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    smurgen wrote: »
    I think the girl was lying is the most likely given the amount of attacks mccabe received by the gardai.i also would like to know how martin callinhan knew of the tusla file when it was just created.i think all of this needs to be brought into the open to try to rescue the reputation of the gardai.i think people in this country have had enough of bent coppers.


    This is what the Tribunal said:

    "A complaint had been made by Ms D and her family against Maurice McCabe to the gardaí in Cavan in December 2006. Ms D had already been undergoing counselling. The complaint was of a single, brief, alleged clothed incident back when she was six or seven, in perhaps 1998."

    "The criminal investigation into the Ms D complaint ended when the Director of Public Prosecutions decided in April 2007 that no offence had been disclosed; even taking the complaint at face value. Social services thereafter decided to take no further action."

    The Tribunal does not say that the girl was lying. I don't anyone has accused the girl of lying. The DPP has said that what occurred wasn't a crime. That is the end of the story. The girl wasn't lying but McCabe didn't commit a criminal offence.


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    #1773
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    smurgen wrote: »
    I disagree and i think the public reckon the entire acusation is a fabrication.

    Maybe the public should read the facts


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    #1774
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Maybe the public should read the facts

    The facts, as they were presented?


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    #1775
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Edward M wrote: »
    The facts, as they were presented?

    Nobody, anywhere has reported that miss D was lying. The DPP said there was no criminal offence.
    That means that the incident she reported was not an offence, not that nothing happened, & not that she was lying.


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    #1776
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Nobody, anywhere has reported that miss D was lying. The DPP said there was no criminal offence.
    That means that the incident she reported was not an offence, not that nothing happened, & not that she was lying.

    So you're saying that there's still an inference that something happened between McCabe and miss D, just not an offence?


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    #1777
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Edward M wrote: »
    So you're saying that there's still an inference that something happened between McCabe and miss D, just not an offence?

    If you read blanch post above it should explain it to you


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    #1778
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    bubblypop wrote: »
    If you read blanch post above it should explain it to you

    Read it.
    Why won't you answer what I asked you yourself?
    We've had years of this about McCabe, he got his victory and still the insulating innuendo goes on.


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    #1779
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,272 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Edward M wrote: »
    So you're saying that there's still an inference that something happened between McCabe and miss D, just not an offence?


    Not a single person who has investigated this has ever accused the girl of lying. It is only on message boards like this that I have seen such an accusation.


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    #1780
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Not a single person who has investigated this has ever accused the girl of lying. It is only on message boards like this that I have seen such an accusation.

    Case in point I think.
    BP was quick enough to jump in and tell us to leave girl D out of it.
    Why had tusla a file on McCabe at all?


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    #1781
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,272 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Edward M wrote: »
    Read it.
    Why won't you answer what I asked you yourself?
    We've had years of this about McCabe, he got his victory and still the insulating innuendo goes on.


    There is no innuendo, only facts.

    The girl reported what happened. The DPP concluded there was no crime. End of facts.


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    #1782
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,272 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Edward M wrote: »
    Case in point I think.
    BP was quick enough to jump in and tell us to leave girl D out of it.
    Why had tusla a file on McCabe at all?

    A girl reported that something happened.

    Tusla looked into it. The Gardai looked into it. The DPP concluded that no crime was committed.

    Unless you are suggesting that all of the above shouldn't have been recorded somewhere, then of course there was a file.


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    #1783
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    blanch152 wrote: »
    There is no innuendo, only facts.

    The girl reported what happened. The DPP concluded there was no crime. End of facts.

    So again, your post implies something happened.
    If not the girl was lying?


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    #1784
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Edward M wrote: »
    So again, your post implies something happened.
    If not the girl was lying?

    Nobody has ever suggested the girl was lying. She made a complaint about an incident, the DPP directed there was no criminal offence.
    Those are the facts. I don't know why you are suggesting otherwise


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    #1785
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,272 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Edward M wrote: »
    So again, your post implies something happened.
    If not the girl was lying?

    I don't think you understand my point at all.

    Edward M scratches his balls. Blanch152 reports what happened to the Gardai. The Gardai conclude there was no crime.

    So, Edward M didn't commit a crime and Blanch152 wasn't lying. What is so difficult to understand about that?

    There are a wide possibility of interpretations of what happened. Was it false memory syndrome? Did the girl overreact to something innocent? Did parental influence make something more of it? Was McCabe's behaviour inappropriate but not criminal?

    The Tribunal didn't look at any of those questions. All are possible answers, and there may well be other explanations that also fit the facts. Now that we have a Tribunal Report, all we can focus on are the facts as set out by the Tribunal. Suggesting that the girl was lying or that McCabe was inappropriate go beyond the known facts and into speculation and innuendo. The girl is equally innocent as McCabe on this point. Saying that she is lying is as bad as saying McCabe was inappropriate. Actually it is worse, because saying that she is lying means she may have committed a crime, whereas we know that McCabe did not commit a crime.


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    #1786
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I don't think you understand my point at all.

    Edward M scratches his balls. Blanch152 reports what happened to the Gardai. The Gardai conclude there was no crime.

    So, Edward M didn't commit a crime and Blanch152 wasn't lying. What is so difficult to understand about that?

    There are a wide possibility of interpretations of what happened. Was it false memory syndrome? Did the girl overreact to something innocent? Did parental influence make something more of it? Was McCabe's behaviour inappropriate but not criminal?

    The Tribunal didn't look at any of those questions. All are possible answers, and there may well be other explanations that also fit the facts. Now that we have a Tribunal Report, all we can focus on are the facts as set out by the Tribunal. Suggesting that the girl was lying or that McCabe was inappropriate go beyond the known facts and into speculation and innuendo. The girl is equally innocent as McCabe on this point. Saying that she is lying is as bad as saying McCabe was inappropriate. Actually it is worse, because saying that she is lying means she may have committed a crime, whereas we know that McCabe did not commit a crime.

    I appreciate that analogy:).
    Why had tusla a file on McCabe?


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    #1787
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Edward M wrote: »
    I appreciate that analogy:).
    Why had tusla a file on McCabe?

    There is an automatic reporting on child protection issues.
    If Gardai go to an incident where children are deemed to be in danger, they must report to Tusla.
    Same the other way, if tusla are aware of a report about a child protection issues there is mandatory report to the Gardai.
    Other professions are also part of the mandatory reporting.

    As for the 'cut & paste' issues, I have no idea what they did, or who is at fault.
    But they would have a file from the first incident.


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    #1788
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    bubblypop wrote: »
    There is an automatic reporting on child protection issues.
    If Gardai go to an incident where children are deemed to be in danger, they must report to Tusla.
    Same the other way, if tusla are aware of a report about a child protection issues there is mandatory report to the Gardai.
    Other professions are also part of the mandatory reporting.

    As for the 'cut & paste' issues, I have no idea what they did, or who is at fault.
    But they would have a file from the first incident.

    Why, if the man is innocent. It seems wrong to me.
    It actually looks like a set up for the future allegations and "mistake".
    I dont blame girl D, but this started from nothing and escalated to full blown rape, just purely accidentally against the biggest garda whistle-blower we've ever had.
    To me that is a huge coincidence and I don't believe for one minute it was accidental.
    But like the great explanations you've been giving. I suppose it can't be proved conclusively so it come out in the report as what it can at best state it as.


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    #1789
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mandatory reporting for child protection issues is extremely important.
    Or do you think we should go back to the times when everyone knew something but no one said anything?

    I have no idea what happened with the tusla file, but we can't stop protecting children & there are systems in place for a reason


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    #1790
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    If the initial claim was written off why was it still on the system, is every claim found to be false kept? Also, how a historic case, where no criminality was found, was to reappear to be open to an error escalating it and then it being brought to the attention or all and sundry, without it being vetted first for confirmation especially considering the players, when it did, is what I have trouble accepting. The odds must be astronomical.


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    #1791
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    If the initial claim was written off why was it still on the system, is every claim found to be false kept? Also, how a historic case, where no criminality was found, was to reappear to be open to an error escalating it and then it being brought to the attention or all and sundry, without it being vetted first for confirmation especially considering the players, when it did, is the trouble I have accepting. The odds must be astronomical.

    Yea, to be fair it seems extremely unbelievable.


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    #1792
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,171 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    A file was opened on each of the McCabe children also.


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    #1793
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Water John wrote: »
    A file was opened on each of the McCabe children also.
    I can't understand how this was done though without talking to people who knew so who compiled the files?


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    #1794
    davidmarsh
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭davidmarsh


    It seems quite likely to me that the girl was lying. And quite likely that her father was behind it.


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    #1795
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,272 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    If the initial claim was written off why was it still on the system, is every claim found to be false kept? Also, how a historic case, where no criminality was found, was to reappear to be open to an error escalating it and then it being brought to the attention or all and sundry, without it being vetted first for confirmation especially considering the players, when it did, is what I have trouble accepting. The odds must be astronomical.



    Tusla maintain files even where somebody hasn't been prosecuted. The file was on what happened to Ms. D., not what McCabe did. It seems that distinction is too difficult for some to understand.

    There are thousands of cases in Tusla where women and children who have been abused refuse to make Garda complaints. Even when Tusla refer the complaints to Gardai, the investigation doesn't get far if the accusers don't co-operate. Those women and children still deserve help from Tusla even if they are not willing to report the abuse, or where the abuse doesn't cross the line to be a crime.

    It was reopened because Ms. D returned to Tusla. All you have to do is read the Tribunal report.


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    #1796
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    davidmarsh wrote: »
    It seems quite likely to me that the girl was lying. And quite likely that her father was behind it.

    Disgusting thing to say


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    #1797
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    bubblypop wrote: »
    davidmarsh wrote: »
    It seems quite likely to me that the girl was lying. And quite likely that her father was behind it.

    Disgusting thing to say

    Save your faux outrage for McCabe.Hopefully he takes civil action against the lot of them.


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    #1798
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Tusla maintain files even where somebody hasn't been prosecuted. The file was on what happened to Ms. D., not what McCabe did. It seems that distinction is too difficult for some to understand.

    There are thousands of cases in Tusla where women and children who have been abused refuse to make Garda complaints. Even when Tusla refer the complaints to Gardai, the investigation doesn't get far if the accusers don't co-operate. Those women and children still deserve help from Tusla even if they are not willing to report the abuse, or where the abuse doesn't cross the line to be a crime.

    It was reopened because Ms. D returned to Tusla. All you have to do is read the Tribunal report.

    It's all too coincidental.
    Given the tribunals findings on Callinan and his campaign to smear McCabe, along with Taylors help, who knows what others, this stinks to high heaven.


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    #1799
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,272 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Edward M wrote: »
    It's all too coincidental.
    Given the tribunals findings on Callinan and his campaign to smear McCabe, along with Taylors help, who knows what others, this stinks to high heaven.


    Read the Tribunal report. The big issue was the attempt by people in Tusla at a relatively junior level to cover up their mistake rather than give the central people the full file.


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    #1800
    Miike
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Miike


    Sammber wrote: »
    wow so much trump derangement syndrome in this echo chamber
    trump 2020 and there is nothing you fag gots can do about it
    ahahahahahahahaha

    Did mammy not show you enough love or something?


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    #1801
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,227 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Edward M wrote: »
    It's all too coincidental.
    Given the tribunals findings on Callinan and his campaign to smear McCabe, along with Taylors help, who knows what others, this stinks to high heaven.

    We live in an age when an untested allegation is enough for some and there are plenty who will use an allegation to insinuate and smear.

    In this case it is going to cost the taxpayer a lot of money unfortunately but McCabe and his family deserve to be compensated for the damage it did and will continue to do as it is whispered around the unscrupulous.


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