Being witty with women

silverharp

Wibbs wrote: »

There have been theories that funnier men tend to be cleverer with higher levels of testosterone and that male humour was a selected for trait for attractiveness and social jostling.

As for a manual for it. I would reckon that outside of nurture factors with social interaction skills there is a "sweet spot" of learning and experimentation when the mind is at its most plastic and able to adapt. I'd put that sweet spot in adolescence. A time when you're almost expected to be daft and do stupid things, until you find the "you" that fits.

It would be my wild ramblings that with the rise of social media and other pressures on kids today, young men in this case, this sweet spot can be missed. It's easier to avoid social interactions today and not be noticed as being apart. Or replace social interactions with social media ones. Although our privacy as a species is being eaten into*, in another way we've never been more allowed to be alone. Look at extremes like the chunk of a generation of outside of society young guys in Japan.

Trying to learn such things later on is doable, but more difficult. The mind isn't quite as adaptable and society tends to frown more on mistakes. Still doable mind you. Just be wary of sounding practiced, how to win friends and influence people stylee. That can come across as jarring even "creepy" where none of that is intended(though can depend on culture. Works more in the US type culture for example). You want to be more Steve Googan and not Alan Partridge if you see what I mean?






*Though privacy is a relatively modern construct so maybe we're reseting? Among hunter gatherers they are almost never alone. Ditto for older style agricultural societies. The religious hermit was a penance, not something actively sought out. I'd bet the farm that social anxiety is as rare as other illnesses of affluence in such societies too. Depressive illnesses are certainly rarer.

Im definitely in the camp that there are more sex differences than people like to give credit to and humour is one of them I couldn't say if its been specifically selected for over millennia or more probably an intelligence and dominance marker that we culturally express , simply put someone with an IQ of 70 doesn't have the mental capacity to be funny. Men need to be funnier than women and its something you can even see in boys as they are heading into their teens. I remember years ago with my son , he had a great sense of humour but hated being teased or being the butt of a joke and I thought to myself he will never survive school with that attitude so over the years I have gone out of the way to gently rib him and just generally make him laugh and it seems to have worked.

yourdeadwright

Just be aware of your downfalls,
I constantly interrupt people I don't mean it but I know I do it
So when I do it on a date and realise I make light of it, I also have a habit of asking a question and then jumping to a different topic ,
I learned these things about myself and now give myself a few second to think about it before speaking on a date, Its not being someone else or faking it its just learning your weak points and trying to improve,

johnnyskeleton

Have you considered watching someone like dave allen for a while and making a study of his comic timing etc? Right down to the dramatic pauses, the way he uses his glass of whiskey as a prop etc?

Of course, its not always easy to do that in a social situation where there will always be a loudmouth butting in every gap in the conversation.

But for one on one converations, remember you dont have to fill every moment of silence. Allow a few seconds well timed pauses etc when youre telling a joke.

Also, and it might sound obvious, but have you considered googling jokes and making a list of the ones you find funny and trying to weave them into a conversation?

YouTookMyName

Wibbs wrote: »

Not ragging on you YTMN, but I see this kinda thing a lot and since you were first in the line…

Fúckin hell dude its a father ted qoute. I know nothing about dating.

LostinBlanch

YouTookMyName wrote: »

Fúckin hell dude its a father ted qoute. I know nothing about dating.

Down with this sort of thing.

Shint0

Something Wibbs touched was an interesting point in relation to testosterone levels. The other aspect in the general sense of why are some people more witty is individual brain chemistry and there's a long held association between comedy and 'madness'. People with ADHD, for example, can often have an off-beat, wacky sense of humour as can people with bipolar, such as Spike Milligan being the obvious one. When someone is going through a manic/hypomanic episode there can be a flight of ideas with thoughts and words jumping around and puns or witticisms tripping off the tongue. I've always believed there's a dopamine connection involved with rising or decreasing levels of this neurotransmitter. When some people begin treatment for mania there can almost be a perceived sense of loss of identity or change in personality as that fire in the brain which produces the comedic or artistic temperment can get dampened down. Tommy Tiernan being another example who has previously talked about his diagnosis of borderline personality disorder and dissociative experiences although I believe these to have a more environmentally related eitiology but clearly he has a darker side as do many comedians. The origins of a sense of humour from this perspective may be through a self-soothing coping mechanism where there is an unconscious inclination to increase dompaine and pleasure seeking.

So how does that relate to the OP's first initial question of how to 'become more witty with women'. Certainly not advising him to go out and score coke or speed but clearly it's quite complex and there are multiple factors involved aswell as someone else having mentioned there can always be a downside. The OP perceives his lack of natural wit may make him less appealing to women while many with the 'gift' can regularly plunge down into the inferno and get catapulted up again in the opposite direction. Trying to change any apect of your persona is not a short term strategy just for one particular purpose and has to be continually worked on and incorporated into your lifestyle. The OP might initially ensnare a lady with his new found sense of humour but the risk is that once in a relationship many people become comfortable and can revert back to type. It might be precisely this aspect which attracted any new flame. So one could be accused of falsely portraying their persona just like in the 'fake lips' thread what happens when the lips deflate or the lipstick wears off? Is falsely representing one's personality a bigger crime? (Better not to go there ) Bottom line is changing for anyone other than yourself and especially in relationships can lead down a very slippery slope.

Legal Action

You can't learn to be witty with women. Accept your limitations and move on from there.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

You say you find yourself sliding into being more serious/formal with women, do you think that's coming from nervousness maybe? Or that you're feeling a pressure to be funny and that's making things worse? Are there peer groups or situations where you find you would naturally be witty to an extent?

I'd be in the camp that says it's very difficult to 'learn' to be witty. And like many people have said there's no one form of humour that's going to amuse everyone. And if it goes wrong, if it comes across as forced or false, that's a lot worse than not being funny at all.

There is a world of difference between being serious and being boring, or being a downer. Definitely don't be a downer, but fecking relentless banter can be just as off-putting honestly. There are plenty serious-minded women out there.

Be interesting. That means having interests, having a healthy degree of confidence and so on. Be interested, meaning listen, respond and basic stuff like that.

And I don't know if it's any comfort, and it's certainly not true in every case, but often the funniest person in the room is (or has in the past been) a horribly insecure person. Humour can be as much a way to keep people at a distance as to attract them. Ever hear women complain about 'the emotionally unavailable guy'? That fellah's usually funny.

So yeah, being witty might get a foot in the door a bit easier, but there are far more important, far more controllable factors, especially if you're looking for a relationship rather than just fix six, pick up chicks.

Wibbs

johnnyskeleton wrote:

Have you considered watching someone like dave allen for a while and making a study of his comic timing etc? Right down to the dramatic pauses, the way he uses his glass of whiskey as a prop etc?

Also, and it might sound obvious, but have you considered googling jokes and making a list of the ones you find funny and trying to weave them into a conversation?

I see where you're going with this JS and way more than is usual in such discussions, you're actually mapping out something to do rather than fire out the easy platitudes, so kudos. However - and shoot me down in flames if you will Sir - but I'd say that is going to come out forced and false in the vast majority of cases. To re-reference my previous line you want to be more Steve Googan and not Alan Partridge. Whoever you are you have to avoid the danger of becoming a personage, rather than a person. Only the extremely talented can get away with the former for very long and even then they're usually tiresome and welcome only in small doses. Wheeled on to fire out another "witty" anecdote and then eff off.

And I say that as someone who could easily be the "loudmouth butting in every gap in the conversation". In social situations my default is often to be "on". In your face. And someone - a social combative in a way - who would actively relish the joust and back and forth that might come up. Folks sometimes muse about online V offline personas but the truth is I'm actually far more measured and dialled down here in text on the interwebs and I have this site to thank for that TBH. The years have taken that edge off, by choice and thankfully.

And yes, you will get more attention overall and yes you will get more attention from women, often quite the bit more*. However there can defo be a selection bias going on within that. And often not such a good one. Even when the selection bias isn't in play and you end with someone cool, I can tell you this; I had someone I cared about drift away from me at least partially because - and she told me straight out - that she often felt invisible and ignored as my girlfriend in social situations when I was in that zone. She came to feel she was another social prop in the, my mix. I was so used to getting the feedback from whatever group I was in I missed the individuals within it. Including her. Unreal. That happened more than once TBH, but it only finally hit me with her because I actually cared for her, so listened for a change.

So TBH, FWIW and YMMV, that's maybe a peek behind the curtain of the other side for you guys who find themselves socially tongue tied and feel left on the sidelines.

I'd be 100% right behind you on this part though JS. And advice I've often missed and still can.

But for one on one converations, remember you dont have to fill every moment of silence.

But I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd

Bentlee Brave Rower wrote: »

Be interesting. That means having interests

*that right there folks, is the sound of a nail being hit squarely, roundly and loudly on the effin head*



*the banal and comforting to far too many answer is "chicks dig dicks". I have seen that mentioned a lot here on Boards down the years by guys. Yep, I won't BS you, that can be true with some, but more, it's a human group social thing. People in groups generally tend to broadly pick up on and be "attracted" to three things; hierarchy, confidence and "vibe". If it's fun and easy and you're appearing to be providing the fun and easy you get more attention overall, so naturally you get more attention from women/men[delete as applicable to your particular tastes] though much more in play with men. But that is a group thing and is a temporary thing.

Otis_taylor2

Legal Action wrote: »

You can't learn to be witty with women. Accept your limitations and move on from there.

limitations? what are those? i don't think i have any .. i was born ready with a sense of wit to make any woman see the lighter side of life :pac:

But on a serious note as a few posters before said i guess its just about being comfortable in your own skin, having a sense of self-depreciating humour, just being free within and approaching any women and just talking. you can always pick up on something particular that comes up in the conversation, it may happen naturally as the conversation goes, or may not.

Legal Action

One thing for sure I've learned is don't use self-deprecating humour. It's an easy way to make girls laugh but just lowers your value and worth.

Shint0

Legal Action wrote: »

One thing for sure I've learned is don't use self-deprecating humour. It's an easy way to make girls laugh but just lowers your value and worth.

That's not always necessarily true, Legal Action. A healthy sense of humour is actually the ability to be able to laugh at oneself warts and all. It can be a sign of maturity and can be very liberating. Of course if somebody constantly has a 'woe is me' attitude that can easily be detected and any attempt at self-deprecating humour can go down like a lead balloon.

Legal Action

Shint0 wrote: »

That's not always necessarily true, Legal Action. A healthy sense of humour is actually the ability to be able to laugh at oneself warts and all. It can be a sign of maturity and can be very liberating. Of course if somebody constantly has a 'woe is me' attitude that can easily be detected and any attempt at self-deprecating humour can go down like a lead balloon.

I get you, it's important to be able to laugh at yourself, but I've known men who take the piss out of themselves quite regularly and it just gets old.

Dial Hard

Legal Action wrote:

I get you, it's important to be able to laugh at yourself, but I've known men who take the piss out of themselves quite regularly and it just gets old.

This x1 million. There's a gaping chasm between being able to laugh at yourself and making yourself the butt of every joke.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

After a certain point it comes across as fishing for compliments too, or maybe that's just me

Shint0

Legal Action wrote: »

I get you, it's important to be able to laugh at yourself, but I've known men who take the piss out of themselves quite regularly and it just gets old.

Dial Hard wrote: »

This x1 million. There's a gaping chasm between being able to laugh at yourself and making yourself the butt of every joke.

I can't say I encounter this regularly. I'm curious to know what would be an example, just out of interest?

Legal Action

Shint0 wrote: »

I can't say I encounter this regularly. I'm curious to know what would be an example, just out of interest?

A guy I used to know played drums in band and would make comments like "I'll be walking down the street, hear the band playing, go over to check it out and they'll have a replaced me!" And we'd laugh but after a while it's like, you're a pretty good drummer, stop putting yourself down. Same with other aspects of his life.

Admittedly, he was a pretty extreme example but it go me thinking of how you're perceived by others when you take the piss out of yourself.

Irish_Elect_Eng

I come across a quite witty in person, but I have no clue how to explain it to anybody.

The one thing that I would say is that the key skill to master is actually listening. Firstly people like to engage with folks that are interested in them. And are more open to someone that listens first, then replies, so lay the groundwork. After all anybody genuinely interested in us has great taste :-) The good news is that you can train yourself become an active listener, just google it.

One of the keys to humor is that it really help if the topic is one of interest to your audience.

Riders Of Rohan

Ok my advice for this is, well being witty isnt really hard, think of it as bullying them but do it with a smile, never say sorry if you think they have took offence. Now when I say bully, I dont mean real bullying just pick on her and dont over do it, cause thats just trying to hard and thats my definition of witty
AAAYYYYY

mzungu

Riders Of Rohan wrote: »

Ok my advice for this is, well being witty isnt really hard, think of it as bullying them but do it with a smile, never say sorry if you think they have took offence. Now when I say bully, I dont mean real bullying just pick on her and dont over do it, cause thats just trying to hard and thats my definition of witty
AAAYYYYY

That's absolutely terrible advice, and it borders on that PUA nonsense. In no way should any anybody engage in that BS. To the OP, if you're still reading do not do any of what is bolded above.

Riders Of Rohan

mzungu wrote: »

That's absolutely terrible advice, and it borders on that PUA nonsense. In no way should any anybody engage in that BS. To the OP, if you're still reading do not do any of what is bolded above.

I think I might have worded it better, maybe be cheeky is a better way of saying it, I just cant think of the word I want so went with bully. Youre reading what i say wrong. This isnt just for women, men generally like people if you "bully" them, crap Ill think of the word and then you will understand what Im trying to say

ongarboy

Riders Of Rohan wrote: »

I think I might have worded it better, maybe be cheeky is a better way of saying it, I just cant think of the word I want so went with bully. Youre reading what i say wrong. This isnt just for women, men generally like people if you "bully" them, crap Ill think of the word and then you will understand what Im trying to say

I think you may possibly mean slagging or teasing in jest but I still think that's poor advice to OP. If you are meeting someone for the first time or in the very early stages of dating, you're still trying to gauge their personality and sense of humour. Introducing jokey put downs that they may not get or misconstrue will only be viewed at best as dorky or weird humour or at worst, downright insulting and certainly will not be interpreted as witty.

Personally, if I had to project an unnatural witticism that was not part of my personality or natural sense of humour as a seduction strategy, I don't think I'd ever have scored...or even made platonic friends for that matter. I'm not a comedian but am known for my dry, sarcastic and deadpan humour usually in the form of taking someone down a peg or two. I only know it works based on the LOL reactions of my listener/audience who would know me anyway. It's not something I deliver with strangers as (a) I wouldn't be confident delivering such humour with people I wasn't familiar with and (b) as advised above, I wouldn't want to risk offence if they misinterpreted what I was saying.

If you have to force a joke out of your mouth, it simply will not be funny imo.

Otis_taylor2

Otis_taylor2 wrote: »

How do you be naturally funny?

Well as other people have said - and you say it yourself here in your own OP - you can not force being "naturally" anything. That is what the word "naturally" means in this context. But one can practice and get a little better at it. I will never come as close to being the "natural" golf player that Tiger Woods is for example - but I could certainly experience the game a lot more and improve.

The same is true of humour. You might not get the "natural" level of comedy that your top comedians have. But you can get more experience - and with observation start to learn a _little_ more about interplay of words and timing and so forth.

Even the professionals do this. Tommy Tiernan for example did a series of - I think 30 consecutive - gigs for free in a small venue in Galway. He did this to try and out mould some new material - by throwing it out - varying it over time - and observing how different timings or phrasings would work and reactions it would get. And I made a point of going to the first - middle(ish) - and last days of this "tour".

And there genuinely was an improvement in the material in my subjective opinion - and in the reactions of the audience. His material was essentially the same but it - and he - through practice and observation - simply got better.

That said however - there are probably things you can do to let your own level of natural humor shine through. What those things are however would be hard to say without knowing you.

But as an example - in the last few weeks I had a friend come to me worried about his lack of love life. He has been single so long he is one of those people who described his virginity as having "grown back".

Apparently he was under the impression I know about these things or am some sort of guru. But I decided to step up and try and work with him. I have even documented/blogged the entire experience privately to one of the regular posters on this area of the forum. It has been fun.

So we went speed dating so I could observe him "at work". And one thing I did notice was he was not really engaging with the other person - or really listening that closely to them or noticing much about them.

So that was one of the things I worked on (I even set up a scenario to totally shock him into realising just how bad his attention was - but that's another long story and I stole a lot of it from other sources when I was thinking it up too).

And I noticed when he worked on this - his comedy and wittiness also improved. Why? Because a lot of humour and wit is observational. You observe something - take in that data - and put a humorous spin on it before feeding it back.

So when he was not processing or noticing the data - he had no material for wit or humour. But as he paid more attention - his natural wit took care of itself because it had data to work with now.

So by working on his attention deficit - especially by very painfully and viciously making him aware of it - as a knock on effect he simply got funnier.

And - as you say in your OP - it was more spontaneous because it was in context and based on information he just took in - rather than little witty remarks and the like he had learned off in the past.

But that is only one example. The point being there could be secondary things to work on that will impact positively on your natural wit and humour.

We have a follow up Speed Dating session in early June. I am looking forward to it and seeing how this - and all the other things I worked on/through with him - pan out in the second attempt

Otis_taylor2 wrote: »

I don't seem to have that sense of wittiness as part of my personality or i've lost it somewhere in the past.

All the above said however I would not like to leave you thinking that being witty is the Mecca of social interaction or impressing the opposite sex. It is just one attribute and it will work with some people and not with others. As another user said you can put on the same performance of wit to two people or groups of people - and go down a treat or a bomb with each. And the question to ask yourself is do you want to impress people with who you are - or with a front you put on?

Think of it like audio equalisers on a stereo. Everyone like different settings. Sometimes massively different. So just because the "witty" setting on your stereo might be down low - other things will be high and low too. And whatever your settings and levels - there will be groups of people who will like it and groups who will not.

Otis_taylor2 wrote: »

I see myself sliding towards being more serious/formal in most conversations with women.

From the thread title down through the post you talk a lot about conversations with women, talking with women, being witty specifically with women. I wonder at that to a certain degree. How different do you think you have to be in your talking to women as opposed to men specifically? I am not sure they have to be 100% - do not get me wrong - but how different to you believe you have to act?

Perhaps if you remove or at least erode the divide in your head between talking to men - and talking to women - and proceed instead with simply "talk or be witty with _people_" you might find some - most - or even all your issues go away because you are falsely thinking you have to somehow do it differently with one sex over another where in fact you do not.

Otis_taylor2 wrote: »

I don't have a problem talking to women per se, i.e but after the initial contact i just feel i come across as less interesting, not much to talk or i'm driving the conversation to boredom, which made me think if its also of the sense of wittiness that is missing.

At this point in your posts however I find myself wondering if you have misdiagnosed yourself entirely. You appear to have identified an issue that bothers you - and diagnosed a low level of wittiness as being the case. But I wonder if that diagnosis is correct.

Some of the people who are the most interesting to me - in an ongoing way after the initial contact where - lets face it - most of us put our best foot forward and show a lot of our best cards - they are interesting because they _are_ interesting. Not because they are witty. Some are witty and humorous. Some are dead pan serious all the time.

But what they have in common is an enjoyment of their life - what they put into it and get out of it - pushing their own limits and boundaries - new and varied experiences. In short they have material to talk about and be interesting about and - the most interesting people of all I find - that they are passionate about and their passion comes across in how they talk about their life's contents.

In fact I have been more interested one time in a conversation at a party with an accountant about his work - which he described with interest and passion - than I was that same night with a monotone boring guy who was telling me about all his parachute jumps and hand gliding and deep sea diving in a way that was matter of fact - detailed - but lacked any impression he was deriving any pleasure at all from it.

If someone is just doing "wake up - eat - work - eat - gaming and/or television - sleep" 7 days a week for example - then they are going to very quickly stop being interesting after the initial meeting no matter how witty and funny they are - or think they are.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

If he continues to just be himself without putting some effort into it he's likely gonna get nowhere.

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe it's just me and even though I know it is meant with genuine empathy and in the best spirit, but the "just be yourself" mantra is lazy as all hell. Let's make it so easy, because you're perfect as you are. Eh no.

I think a lot of people misunderstand the mantra "be yourself". And the common understanding of it is something that you describe perfectly as "lazy as hell". Because a lot of people do think it means "You are perfect - do not change anything - just keep on keeping on like you are".

I think "be yourself" means something deeper though. It means stay true to yourself and do not try to be something you are not - but still engage in self improvement all the time whenever and however possible.

In other words "Be yourself" to me means "Be yourself - just be _more_ of it". Find what makes you you and get more involved in it - improve it - better it - expand it - explore it - and above all enjoy it.

Contrasted to - say - doing something or putting on a front of something - that simply is not "you" - like trying to be "naturally funny" when you are not that person - or taking up dance lessons even if you have no interest in it - just because someone told you the girl:boy ration is favourable in dance classes and so on.

So yea "Be yourself" as in stay true to who you are - but do anything you can to better who you are too. And the first step in that - find out who you are. Some people genuinely do not seem to know IME - caught up in some default they ended up being - and/or in trying to be what others expect or want them to be.

Wibbs wrote: »

Again good advice, but how? Double how. You may as well say "just swim" to someone who has never learned. Never mind that different people have different levels of "ease".

Indeed - as all the people you try to put at ease will be different - there is no fit all formula for putting people at their ease. I think there generally positive moves people _can_ make however which will have a generally positive effect on larger percentiles though.

I could probably write a novel (or another novel given the length of this post) on examples of this but..... _One_ I worked on with the guy I mention Speed Dating above is that he will make some comments - sometimes witty or otherwise - designed to make a connection with the other person. Which is a good thing - when you make connections that generally puts people at ease.

But he almost invariably did so putting a negative spin on the comment. The best example I can think of because he did it 5 times on 5 successive speed dates was he essentially said "God speed dating is _so_ awkward isn't it - it makes you feel awful and uncomfortable".

Which is well intentioned. He realises the other person probably also feels out of their comfort zone in speed dating and he wants to establish that connection with them. A good thing.

BUT not only is this a negative comment which will result in negative mood - but it is also a suggestion - the other person is now going to be consciously focused on negative emotions like discomfort. It can become self fulfilling in a way.

So I worked on him saying essentially the same things - but with a more positive spin. This was general work but to apply it to the example above he would now say something like "Wow speed dating is _so_ outside my comfort zone. its quite exciting and exhilarating don't you think?".

So now you have established the same connection - but positively - focusing the mind on positive feelings and enjoyment of even the bad feelings - and ended in a question to let the other person join in your expression.

As I said there are other examples of that - and other examples of general things one can work on. No "one size fits all" solution that is guaranteed to put someone at ease - but certainly the right moves to increase the probability you can put any one person randomly at ease.

Wibbs wrote: »

This one really winds me up TBH.

Agreed - though I do not let it wind me up - I would certainly view anyone honestly giving that "advice" (rather than just being tongue in cheek) - as being inexperienced, immature, sexist and manipulative. As if the opposite sex is to be best manipulated for maximum gain - rather than treated as an individual human being with all the foibles and failings that ones own sex shares. The "advice" makes the opposite sex sound more like the current dictator of North Korea - someone to be pandered to and their ego massaged merely so you yourself can get through your day with the minimum of effort or fuss.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It was more the certainty that people will find the real you interesting. People will or they won't.

I think the point is more than _some_ people will find you interesting for who you are and _some_ people will find you interesting for who you pretend to be.

And whichever one of those you choose to be _some_ people will not be interested in you at all.

So at the end of the day it comes down to a simple question - do you want people to like or even love you for who you are - or for some "front" you erect and then have to maintain forever?

I know where my choice is. Others may - of course - vary.

RDM_83 again

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the point is more than _some_ people will find you interesting for who you are and _some_ people will find you interesting for who you pretend to be.

And whichever one of those you choose to be _some_ people will not be interested in you at all.

So at the end of the day it comes down to a simple question - do you want people to like or even love you for who you are - or for some "front" you erect and then have to maintain forever?

I know where my choice is. Others may - of course - vary.

Isn't their an argument of fake it till you make it though?
Like if a guy is insecure about his sex life casual sex will improve that and clear his head, it won't make continuing a relationship any easier but if he will probably have more chance of starting one if he doesn't have his tongue hanging out of his head when he starts chatting to a girl or conversely loads of self doubt. This behavior may end up toxic in the long term but short term or in the right headspace would it harm?

I know its a bit of a cliche but I'm a firm believer in the idea that women can smell desperation.

Also OP do you have many women friends? why not head out/hang around with them a bit more, you'l see that girls can have just as crude a sense of humour as lads and can get just as "messy".

One thing I am not sure about, is being witty going to make a huge difference on its own, obviously not making social faux pas or coming across as a knob is a hindrance but isn't being witty simply the icing on the cake, making somebody thats already appealing more so? (and I would argue confidence is probably more important than wit anyway).

Esel

Those megaposts above... whew!

I have a good memory for jokes, and often something that comes up in conversation will remind me of an appropriate one or two. The shorter the better...

And remember to smile!

RDM_83 again

RDM_83 again wrote: »

This behavior may end up toxic in the long term but short term or in the right headspace would it harm?

Assuming the person he becomes emotionally invested in is not one of the ones he was approaching in this fashion? It is certainly not a risk I would have imagined myself ever taking. The more of a fake front one puts on - the more of a risk there is that it will come back to bite them. Their choice of course. But it certainly would not be for me.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I know its a bit of a cliche but I'm a firm believer in the idea that women can smell desperation.

Not something I have ever believed specifically. But I do think _people_ regardless of gender can sometimes sense an agenda. And if one is approaching another person with an agenda to use that person as a means to an end - rather than as an individual in and of themselves - they will probably pick up on that.

And a lot of people after sex for purely the sake of sex - will probably set off such alarms. Which I suppose could be mistaken for "smelling the desperation".

astonaidan

Just adding about the desperation thing, if I a guy can see another guy wants to so badly have sex with a girl, she will also notice it.

It is the worst thing I see guys doing when Im in a bar, I kinda want to slap them

I watched two guys following a girl around all night, they bought her drinks and Im sure they were thinking one of us will get her, it annoyed me so much how stupid they were being I sent my brother up to hit on her and take her home :o

The girl had no notion of going off with either, I felt it was in a weird way the nicest thing to do.

Wibbs

And our resident pet PUA rereg gets a banning.