rules query

Dublin Spur

can you participate in a singles club competition and play singles match-play within the same round of golf ?

C.O.Y.B.I.B

Cant see why not , but obviously no 'given' putts ! Wouldnt fancy it myself as its 2 different games with a different mindset and different 'tactics'

PARlance

Can't see how that would possible as there are different rules for both formats. Playing out of turn etc.

Keano

It can be done but you'd be crazy to do it.

First Up

PARlance wrote:

Can't see how that would possible as there are different rules for both formats. Playing out of turn etc.

How would that be a problem? In all forms of golf the player furthest away plays first.

First Up

Keano wrote:

It can be done but you'd be crazy to do it.

It happens quite often - usually when a match has to be played by an upcoming deadline. It isn't ideal but there is nothing in the rules to stop it.

PARlance

First Up wrote: »

How would that be a problem? In all forms of golf the player furthest away plays first.

It would be a problem if he played out of turn. His matchplay opponent could ask him to retake the shot.

PARlance

Keano wrote: »

It can be done but you'd be crazy to do it.

First Up wrote: »

It happens quite often - usually when a match has to be played by an upcoming deadline. It isn't ideal but there is nothing in the rules to stop it.

Rule 33-1

Certain specific rules governing stroke play are so substantially different from those governing match play that combining the two forms of play is not practicable and is not permitted. The result of a match played in these circumstances is null and void and, in the stroke play competition, the competitors are disqualified.

Rikand

So from a rules point of view - no

From a common sense and practicality point of view - yes

PARlance

Dublin Spur wrote: »

can you participate in a singles club competition and play singles match-play within the same round of golf ?

I have seen matchplay slots within singles comps. If it's a case that you can both only get out during the time when a singles comp is on, I'm sure the club would facilitate a line within the time sheet for your match.

PARlance

Rikand wrote: »

So from a rules point of view - no

From a common sense and practicality point of view - yes

Common sense would be to follow the rules of golf. You cant pick and choose the rules you want to abide by.

Common sense would be to play one format at a time. They're different games with different strategies.

mike12

The rules say no.
Don't know why u would want to do it either.
Would u be playing as a 2 ball in the middle of a stableford comp.

Golfgorfield

Can 2 people in a match decide to agree on terms regardless?
I have done this in the past with a go ahead from committee, simply play off the comp tees and agree that all putts finished out.

Cannot see the reason for the hulabaloo on this

First Up

Golfgorfield wrote: »

Can 2 people in a match decide to agree on terms regardless?
I have done this in the past with a go ahead from committee, simply play off the comp tees and agree that all putts finished out.

Cannot see the reason for the hulabaloo on this

Nor me. Nor do I see where the rules are "substantially different". If two players want to discharge their obligation to play a match they can agree what to do - and who would be any the wiser?

DuckSlice

Ive seen it done and have done it myself also, wasnt aware it was a breach of the rules though. I dont like it, i find i couldnt fully focus on the match or the weekly comp.

Ive also played a match(or not played rather) where me and the other just couldnt get a time slot to suit each other before the deadline so we just said the winner would be decided on who had the best score in the weekly comp. Not ideal but if it wasnt played then our names would have been drawn out of a hat, so we didnt see the problem in it.

Id say if it suits you and the club are ok with it then go ahead.

ForeRight

etxp wrote: »

Ive seen it done and have done it myself also, wasnt aware it was a breach of the rules though. I dont like it, i find i couldnt fully focus on the match or the weekly comp.

Ive also played a match(or not played rather) where me and the other just couldnt get a time slot to suit each other before the deadline so we just said the winner would be decided on who had the best score in the weekly comp. Not ideal but if it wasnt played then our names would have been drawn out of a hat, so we didnt see the problem in it.

Id say if it suits you and the club are ok with it then go ahead.

You could have a worse stableford score than him but beat him in matchplay format in that situation though

First Up

PARlance wrote:

It would be a problem if he played out of turn. His matchplay opponent could ask him to retake the shot.

Well obviously you would expect the players to hole out and to play in the right order but the same convention applies in all forms of golf. In what way are the rules of matchplay so "substantially different" as to make the two forms incompatible?

DuckSlice

ForeRight wrote: »

You could have a worse stableford score than him but beat him in matchplay format in that situation though

True, but i would prefer to get knocked out like that rather than losing on my name not being pulled out of a hat.

First Up

ForeRight wrote:

You could have a worse stableford score than him but beat him in matchplay format in that situation though

If you can't play head to head, you could always compare cards after and do it hole by hole by comparing stableford points per hole.

PARlance

First Up wrote: »

Well obviously you would expect the players to hole out and to play in the right order but the same convention applies in all forms of golf. In what way are the rules of matchplay so "substantially different" as to make the two forms incompatible?

The smart but correct answer: In the way that the R&A say they are. Their wording, not mine. Here's an article that goes into it in a bit of detail.

http://golf.about.com/od/beginners/a/matchplayrules.htm

PARlance

First Up wrote: »

Nor me. Nor do I see where the rules are "substantially different". If two players want to discharge their obligation to play a match they can agree what to do - and who would be any the wiser?

There are plenty of instances were you could break a rule and nobody would be any wiser.

Senna

Happened me a few years ago, guy I was playing against asked the committee if it was OK to enter comp and play our singles matchplay at the same time, committee said it was OK.
Not only did he beat me in the matchplay but he won the comp with 40points (+1 off 5).

He was at the prize giving that night and someone questioned it, GUI were contacted and yes it's against rules, disqualified from comp AND we had to replay our match.

AFAIK, even playing a small game within the fourball during a comp is against the rules.

PARlance

etxp wrote: »

Ive seen it done and have done it myself also, wasnt aware it was a breach of the rules though. I dont like it, i find i couldnt fully focus on the match or the weekly comp.

Ive also played a match(or not played rather) where me and the other just couldnt get a time slot to suit each other before the deadline so we just said the winner would be decided on who had the best score in the weekly comp. Not ideal but if it wasnt played then our names would have been drawn out of a hat, so we didnt see the problem in it.

Id say if it suits you and the club are ok with it then go ahead.

But why not just ask the club to allow you out to play the matchplay during the comp slots? I see match play bookings in the middle of singles comps in our place.
If you're going to be held up in the middle of 3 or 4 balls during this time, 2 could play their match and be joined by 1 or 2 others in the singles to make a 3 or 4 ball. I'm sure it's ok for a player in match play to mark a card for a guy in singles (If it's required by 3 balls).

Plenty of ways around it imo. No need to break the rules now that we know.

First Up

PARlance wrote:

The smart but correct answer: In the way that the R&A say they are. Their wording, not mine. Here's an article that goes into it in a bit of detail.

I read it and most of the scenarios they describe are at the extreme end of unlikely.

It only matters if by applying matchplay rules, the players gain some advantage over others playing in the same compeition and that can be easily avoided.

I know its against the rules but I have no doubt it will continue to be done all over the place and with absolutely no impact on anyone else.

DuckSlice

PARlance wrote: »

But why not just ask the club to allow you out to play the matchplay during the comp slots? I see match play bookings in the middle of singles comps in our place.
If you're going to be held up in the middle of 3 or 4 balls during this time, 2 could play their match and be joined by 1 or 2 others in the singles to make a 3 or 4 ball. I'm sure it's ok for a player in match play to mark a card for a guy in singles (If it's required by 3 balls).

Plenty of ways around it imo. No need to break the rules now that we know.

We could have done that, but as i said we couldnt get a slot that would suit each other. At the time early mornings only suited me and late afternoon only suited him. Was just bad timing for both of us.

ForeRight

First Up wrote: »

If you can't play head to head, you could always compare cards after and do it hole by hole by comparing stableford points per hole.

Spot on. I didn't even think of that.

Simple solution really

Dayor Knight

Senna wrote: »

Happened me a few years ago, guy I was playing against asked the committee if it was OK to enter comp and play our singles matchplay at the same time, committee said it was OK.
Not only did he beat me in the matchplay but he won the comp with 40points (+1 off 5).

He was at the prize giving that night and someone questioned it, GUI were contacted and yes it's against rules, disqualified from comp AND we had to replay our match.

AFAIK, even playing a small game within the fourball during a comp is against the rules.

As this was a rules query, this seems to answer it... against the rules. Not something I would have known but now that I do, I wouldn't be doing it (hasn't ever arisen for me to date). Just pick which you want to play and play it.

The Rape of Lucretia

ForeRight wrote: »

Spot on. I didn't even think of that.

Simple solution really

Disqualification for both players. The match was not played under the rules for matchplay competitions.

The Rape of Lucretia

First Up wrote: »

If two players want to discharge their obligation to play a match they can agree what to do - and who would be any the wiser?

They cannot agree to do so. If they do, they are in breach of the rules and both disqualified.

Who would be any the wiser ? Well, if you want to play gold that way - tee up the ball in the rough with your toe, drop a ball by the out of bounds and play on (add a stroke of you feel you should pay some penalty), drop a ball in the trees when your partners arent looking and say you have found your ball.
Hey, if they dont spot you doing it, then who would be any wiser ?

fullstop

Golfgorfield wrote: »

Can 2 people in a match decide to agree on terms regardless?
I have done this in the past with a go ahead from committee, simply play off the comp tees and agree that all putts finished out.

Cannot see the reason for the hulabaloo on this

Do clubs allow a 2-ball to play a counting round in a stroke play competition?

fullstop

First Up wrote: »

Nor me. Nor do I see where the rules are "substantially different". If two players want to discharge their obligation to play a match they can agree what to do - and who would be any the wiser?

By the same token, if I decide to throw my ball out from behind a tree and nobody sees it, who would be any the wiser? You can't pick and choose what rules to follow