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Pro choice

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13

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    #62
    mariemoon
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭mariemoon


    I am pro-life for myself but I think that my opinion should not affect other people decisions.
    But I also think that Abortion is not the answer.

    Women deserve much more than abortion.
    For centuries, society has been telling us that if we get pregnant outside marriage we are not good, we are promiscuous and a disgrace to our parents. If we are a teen mother, our future is ruined and society will be looking down at us.

    Abortion will just hide the real problem. Think about how many mothers in all those years that really wanted to have their children but they choose abortion because society pressured them.
    If abortion was legal, society would be telling us that we should do an abortion because if we're a teen mother our future is ruined or if we're a single mother our future is also ruined.

    Women should be free to have their children without being judged, that why a lot of women choose abortion because they don't want to feel shame or have that "problem" in their lives. "Problem" because society keeps telling us that it's a problem.

    It is not a problem. It is Life, women bring life.

    But of course, raped girls, and other special circumstances should have the option available but I really don't care if it is going to be legal or not, because legal or not, the option still there just across the sea or in someone's basement.
    The real issue a lot bigger.

    Love and shame are locking women.


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    #63
    km991148
    Registered Users Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭km991148


    Zaph wrote: »
    Abortion and suicide have nothing to do with one another. To try and create some sort of spurious link between the two is simply a rather pathetic attempt to muddy the waters regarding the debate on the eighth amendment.

    Exactly - I am also pro Salt and vinegar crisps btw


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    #64
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,312 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Butterfly 707 wrote: »
    You're wrong there Zaph, if one believes in the right to bodily autonomy then one should support the legality of suicide.

    your first post on boards is a response to a nearly 2 year thread that you didnt even bother to read. this will go well.


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    #65
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Butterfly 707 wrote: »
    You're wrong there Zaph, if one believes in the right to bodily autonomy then one should support the legality of suicide.


    There's no law in Ireland preventing or prohibiting a person from taking their own life? :confused:


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    #66
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Butterfly 707 wrote: »
    So many people like to cherry pick the old "bodily autonomy" argument, and fail to apply the logic consistently.

    Dreadful. Down with this sort of thing.


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    #67
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,312 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Butterfly 707 wrote: »
    So many people like to cherry pick the old "bodily autonomy" argument, and fail to apply the logic consistently.

    Neither suicide not attempted suicide are illegal here. So what is your point?


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    #68
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,312 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Gatlin Freezing Greenback wrote: »
    Dreadful. Down with this sort of thing.

    father-ted-careful-now.jpg

    Sorry*


    *not sorry.


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    #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I always laugh at these lads. They say, oh it's our lords creation, tis not for us to question why..... so a woman is raped and pregnant, you say life is life, she should have the baby against her own beliefs and feelings. Are you going to help raise the child, support, guide, nurture and help the mother? in times of regret? anxiety? depression?, will you talk her through the resentment she may carry for having been reminded of the trauma inflicted on her at the time of conception?

    Will the church provide the services required to financially assist a woman if the child is mentally challenged, which is often the case in rapes of an incestuos nature.... or will you just expect her to have faith, turn up on Sunday and pass the offering plate so the local cleric can drive round in a 181D !!!

    People use the term Pro choice with a political inference as though anyone who's in favour of same is just dying to stick it to the iona institute and the vatican... Id say anyone who's truly pro choice and has half a brain, knows full well, it's a choice they'll never want to make...but it is theirs just the same.. and my heart goes out to anyone who feels at their lowest ebb as to have to travel, and on return, open the door for a brow beater with a collar!!!


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    #70
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,312 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Butterfly 707 wrote: »
    My point is "bodily autonomy" is not the actual core complaint and driving force of dissatisfaction with abortion being illegal.

    we have a perfectly good thread on the abortion debate. you probably already know what it is called.


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    #71
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    Butterfly 707 wrote: »
    My point is "bodily autonomy" is not the actual core complaint and driving force of dissatisfaction with abortion being illegal.

    What do you think the driving force is?


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    #72
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Butterfly 707 wrote: »
    My point is "bodily autonomy" is not the actual core complaint and driving force of dissatisfaction with abortion being illegal.

    I don't think you even understand what your point is. "bodily autonomy" in quotes every time renders the statement unintelligible.


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    #73
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Butterfly 707 wrote: »
    It's not going to be the same for everyone, but for thosr who shout about "bodily autonomy", I suspect a large subset are bitter about certain aspects of being a woman which men don't have to endure. For example, I suspect many of these women would be the type of women who are bitter that they can't earn attractiveness through rising social status the eay men can, that their attractiveness fades younger than men's.

    Ah! Now I know you.

    Cheers.


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    #74
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,312 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Butterfly 707 wrote: »
    It's not going to be the same for everyone, but for thosr who shout about "bodily autonomy", I suspect a large subset are bitter about certain aspects of being a woman which men don't have to endure. For example, I suspect many of these women would be the type of women who are bitter that they can't earn attractiveness through rising social status the eay men can, that their attractiveness fades younger than men's.

    i've seen a lot of nonsense posted during the abortion debate but this takes the biscuit. well done.


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    #75
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,312 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Gatlin Freezing Greenback wrote: »
    Ah! Now I know you.

    Cheers.

    do tell. PM if necessary


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    #76
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    do tell. PM if necessary

    The powers that be know, that's sufficient.


    We can start the countdown....


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    #77
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Butterfly 707 wrote: »
    Grand then don't discuss it with me.

    As usual, you don't have anything worthwhile to discuss.

    2/10 for this attempt.


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    #78
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,312 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Gatlin Freezing Greenback wrote: »
    The powers that be know, that's sufficient.


    We can start the countdown....

    The final countdown?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw


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    #79
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i've seen a lot of nonsense posted during the abortion debate but this takes the biscuit. well done.

    you'd see the same kind of stuff from the other side as well, tbf


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    #80
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,312 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    pleas advice wrote: »
    you'd see the same kind of stuff from the other side as well, tbf

    nothing as monumentally stupid as that.


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    #81
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    A priest is just a man.

    Every man or woman is entitled to their opinion.

    Yo are entitled to form your own opinion on anything.

    You are not obliged to follow anybody else's opinion no matter what their occupation.

    TLDR make your own opinion on things and don't follow other's like a sheep.


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    #82
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    nothing as monumentally stupid as that.

    i think thats how satire works, though I could be wrong


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    #83
    mariemoon
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭mariemoon


    P_1 wrote: »
    A priest is just a man.

    Every man or woman is entitled to their opinion.

    Yo are entitled to form your own opinion on anything.

    You are not obliged to follow anybody else's opinion no matter what their occupation.

    TLDR make your own opinion on things and don't follow other's like a sheep.

    Agree with you, but the main problem is not the women choice, but what society is imposing to them


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    #84
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    What’s badly needed here on boards is a thread about abortion.
    Badly needed. Let people express their views.
    What can go wrong?


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    #85
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    in fact i think we should have two threads,


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    #86
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    pleas advice wrote: »
    in fact i think we should have two threads,

    Oh at least 2. Preferably with the same 8 or 10 posters all posting the same thing over and over for hundreds of pages.


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    #87
    Noveight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭Noveight


    A priest in my locality told voters to vote No and "denounce evil" before the gay marriage vote there a few years back. Completely delusional.


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    #88
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Noveight wrote: »
    A priest in my locality told voters to vote No and "denounce evil" before the gay marriage vote there a few years back. Completely delusional.

    But he is and was entitled to his opinion.


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    #89
    Noveight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭Noveight


    splinter65 wrote: »
    But he is and was entitled to his opinion.

    Well duh, idiotic as it may have been.

    Suppose he had to be seen beating the party drum.


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    #90
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    DanielODonnell wrote: »
    Are the people who are pro choice regarding abortion also pro choice regarding suicide?

    I can not speak for them, only for myself and my observations. But yes, everyone I have personally had dealings with during the pro-choice campaign have also been people who believe that we, as humans, own our own lives and should be able to choose to end them as and when we wish to.

    Micheal Nugent for example campaigns for pro-choice. He also campaigns heavily on the right to die issue following the death of his own wife. He also campaigns for animal rights and veganism.

    I myself believe that if ownership means anything, and if the right to own anything means anything, then we at minimum have to own ourselves. Our life is our own and if we wish to end it we should have that right. And I have firm beliefs in a regulated and controlled but very real "right to die" in medical contexts like Assisted Suicide and in some cases Euthanasia.

    But people are diverse and while in the minority I have to believe there is a statistically significant portion of people out there who are pro-choice on abortion but against suicide and euthanasia. I just have not met / debated with any of them myself.

    But certainly one does not logically AUTOMATICALLY flow from the other, and as others have pointed out your linking the two is questionable and somewhat spurious.


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    #91
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    ToddyDoody wrote: »
    What does Abortion have to to do with religion and spirituality?

    Very little I guess but some people do operate under a few anti abortion notions that come solely from religious roots.

    The first I could think of is that abortion is against "Gods plan". That by ending a life god has created we are playing god. Never made logical sense to me though given abortion itself must be part of the plan if it exists in the creation of an all knowing all powerful agent.

    The second is the concept that some god puts the soul, the individual person themselves, in the zygote at the moment of conception. This notion has been used against both abortion AND things like stem cell research in the past. Again it makes no logical sense.

    It also does not make scientific sense when you learn about things like how some time AFTER conception the zygote can split into twins. Or that later one twin can absorb another. What happens there? Does one soul become two half souls? Does one murder the other? This arithmetic of souls does not really track with their religious claims.

    All in all though what does it matter? These god bothering types have not gotten around to offering up the FIRST shred of argument, evidence, data or reasoning that their god even exists in the first place. So their ramblings on the subject should be dismissed, ignored and/or....... if you are the type..... outright laughed at. At least until such time as they want to substantiate any of it. For the first time. Ever.


This discussion has been closed.
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