Fighters lives outside the cage, does it matter?

riffmongous

Wasn't sure of a thread title but I follow Khabib on facebook and he just posted up a picture of himself with Ramzan Kadyrov, the Chechen dictator and badass, infamous for his connections to disappearances, tortures and murders. And tbh it's left me a bit annoyed because I'm a big fan of Khabib and Weidmann and Mir before him too, but here they are hanging around with a monster like that.

Now I would guess a lot of people will say that they couldn't care less, all that matters is how the fighters do their job in the cage, which I can understand, but I wonder would people still be comfortable watching or cheering for a FOTN rapist or child molester? (to go to the extreme example)

Thoughts?

Mellor

This kinda of stuff is pretty common in soviet countries. I don't think the normal rules of western society apply. It's easy to take a moral/political stance in the west. But if a Soviet Billionarie or politician (same person usually) decides he wants to give you a car, then today you'll be getting a new car. Ramzan is clearly a dictator, by any reasonable definition, and a bit of a rogue. But the official line is that he's in the United Russia party. Putin's party.

Wrestlers, weightlifters, boxers are cultural heros in the east. It's very common for them to be "rewarded" for international success. Politicians like to make these rewards very public.

Khabib got a car recently after his win.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BEbmuP5v92F/

Taisumov got one also, from Razdam
https://www.instagram.com/p/BEmNwG4CI1z/

riffmongous

Mellor wrote: »

This kinda of stuff is pretty common in soviet countries. I don't think the normal rules of western society apply. It's easy to take a moral/political stance in the west. But if a Soviet Billionarie or politician (same person usually) decides he wants to give you a car, then today you'll be getting a new car. Ramzan is clearly a dictator, by any reasonable definition, and a bit of a rogue. But the official line is that he's in the United Russia party. Putin's party.

Wrestlers, weightlifters, boxers are cultural heros in the east. It's very common for them to be "rewarded" for international success. Politicians like to make these rewards very public.

Khabib got a car recently after his win.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BEbmuP5v92F/

Taisumov got one also, from Razdam
https://www.instagram.com/p/BEmNwG4CI1z/

I forgot about Taisumov, but I also found strange considering his background and how Kadyrov was in the news here in Vienna at New Years for threatening the families of people who protested against him here.. but you could be right, the fighters might not have much choice in the matter, refusing a gift would be a big insult I guess.

What about the likes of Weidmann, Werdum and Mir though? They don't have this excuse. Certainly money plays a part, but even the quickest of google searches will give you a good idea of where this money comes from and how much blood is on it

Mellor

The other two are inexcusable. They just seen $$$ and didn't bother to google, or didn't care.

A similar situation exists with the Abu Dhabi and the ADCC/UAEJJF. They pump a ton on money into the BJJ, not a great human rights record. I give that one a pass tough as its genuinely helping the sport from blue belt to black. Putting on tournaments, not just throwing cars at pro fighters

Lukker-

Werdum claimed he didn't know Ramzan was 'the butcher of Chechyna'. Absolute BS, if someone is paying you 5 or 6 figures to come over and give a seminar and do some photoshoots you are going to google who they are.

Money talks and it's a short career I guess but I find it amusing Werdum has called Conor a prostitute who is obsessed by money. Conor hasn't whored himself out to any dictators.....yet.

Joe Musashi

I have no problem with it. Places like Chechnya would be far worse if it were not for brutal and oppressive dictators like Ramzan. Not every place can be governed like it is some benign Western European country.

I also have no issue with the fighters benefitting. Frankly, it would not make one bit of difference if they went there or not.

riffmongous

Lukker- wrote: »

Werdum claimed he didn't know Ramzan was 'the butcher of Chechyna'. Absolute BS, if someone is paying you 5 or 6 figures to come over and give a seminar and do some photoshoots you are going to google who they are.

Money talks and it's a short career I guess but I find it amusing Werdum has called Conor a prostitute who is obsessed by money. Conor hasn't whored himself out to any dictators.....yet.

Werdum even was talking about a UFC fight in Chechnya against Fedor last month link

Joe Musashi wrote: »

I have no problem with it. Places like Chechnya would be far worse if it were not for brutal and oppressive dictators like Ramzan. Not every place can be governed like it is some benign Western European country.

I also have no issue with the fighters benefitting. Frankly, it would not make one bit of difference if they went there or not.

Far worse? I doubt that, almost all the problems chechnya had in the pre-kadyrov times are still there; kidnappings, private armies and sharia, thousands emigrating

It does make a bit of difference though, it helps legitimise Kadyrov's position at home, the MMA fighters are clearly just being used for propaganda by Kadyrov

bono_v

The prince of Bahrain has a very, very questionable human rights history!
I see some of our own Irish fighters associating with him.

fitzparker

Cody East has a very dark past with alot of accusations and convictions- rape charge, battery, child abuse.

paulieeye

looks like he's in with bigger mma players than mir and werdum....



If you havent seen the AMA on reddit with sensai seagal, you should take a look, funny stuff...

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4i0jso/i_am_actor_steven_seagal_live_from_thailand_ama

pablohoney87

It's a real grey area, not just for fighters but people in general. Mir is a Libertarian so it shouldnt be surprising at all that he'll look out for number one.

Example, I have a one or two of clients in the pharma industry who produce drugs I don't agree with their use. But they put food on my table.

I've seen countless people talk about boycotting Israeli products but are perfectly willing to do this while typing on their Intel supported computers.

The Irish government themselves shipped how much beef to Iraq under the regime of Hussein?

When we start telling people who they can earn their bread with we walk a fine line of hypocricy.

Mellor

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Example, I have a one or two of clients in the pharma industry who produce drugs I don't agree with their use.

I'm really curious what drugs these could be.
Maybe I'm a bit oblivious to the "bad drugs" in pharma industry.

pablohoney87

Mellor wrote: »

I'm really curious what drugs these could be.
Maybe I'm a bit oblivious to the "bad drugs" in pharma industry.

Mainly drugs which would go under the descritpion of "lithium". I'm not a "Bad Pharma" conspiracy guy, but I do see the need for transparency of how certain drugs are perscribed. Luckily this isnt much of a problem in the EU, but we still export to a number of international countries where all purchasing power lies with the perscribing doctor.

dashoonage

Pablo...can you hook us up homie ?

riffmongous

pablohoney87 wrote: »

It's a real grey area, not just for fighters but people in general. Mir is a Libertarian so it shouldnt be surprising at all that he'll look out for number one.

Example, I have a one or two of clients in the pharma industry who produce drugs I don't agree with their use. But they put food on my table.

I've seen countless people talk about boycotting Israeli products but are perfectly willing to do this while typing on their Intel supported computers.

The Irish government themselves shipped how much beef to Iraq under the regime of Hussein?

When we start telling people who they can earn their bread with we walk a fine line of hypocricy.

Yeah it's an issue in all walks of life, but there definitely is a line there of what is acceptable or not I think, we just seem to apply it a bit arbitrarily at time. To go back to an mma example, Kadyrov has been responsible for many many deaths, but it's fairly easy to brush off his sponsorship of Werdum (it probably won't even get a mention in the run up to 198), yet how many people would be happy to support War Machine fighting, who while he has done some awful things is certainly a few levels below Kadyrov .

Mellor

riffmongous wrote: »

Yeah it's an issue in all walks of life, but there definitely is a line there of what is acceptable or not I think, we just seem to apply it a bit arbitrarily at time. To go back to an mma example, Kadyrov has been responsible for many many deaths, but it's fairly easy to brush off his sponsorship of Werdum (it probably won't even get a mention in the run up to 198), yet how many people would be happy to support War Machine fighting, who while he has done some awful things is certainly a few levels below Kadyrov .

There's a world of difference (for me) between supporting a scumbag like War Machine, and supporting a fighter like Werdum who is also support by by a scumbag like Kadyrov.

Fromvert

Lukker- wrote: »

Werdum claimed he didn't know Ramzan was 'the butcher of Chechyna'. Absolute BS, if someone is paying you 5 or 6 figures to come over and give a seminar and do some photoshoots you are going to google who they are.

Money talks and it's a short career I guess but I find it amusing Werdum has called Conor a prostitute who is obsessed by money. Conor hasn't whored himself out to any dictators.....yet.

Werdum must still not know, looks like he's heading back.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGFdKHkJJSy/

riffmongous

Maybe he is just going to join the search parties for the missing cat?

WarZ

What about John Kavanagh's association with the Bahraini royal family?

Stuxnet

When JK was over in Bahrain, he posted a pic poolside, & some comment living the life, surrounded by opulence, ...I responded, built by the bare hands of the severely impoverished locals no doubt.
He blocked me

bono_v

Matthew macklin is best friends with daniel kinahan. Best friends!!!

darced

This post has been deleted.

riffmongous

Saw this in a few places, even the BBC. I'm surprised Fedor spoke out as I thought he was fairly close to Putin. Hopefully nothing bad happens to him

Chechnya’s strongman ruler Ramzan Kadyrov hosted the latest World Fight Championships of Akhmat (WFCA) event on October 4, a show that featured WSOF flyweight champion Magmoed Bibulatov, former Bellator fighter Magomedrasul ‘Frodo’ Khasbulaev and others. However, in a baffling decision, the unsavory ruler placed his own children in MMA fights on the professional show.

The oldest of Kadyrov’s children, Akhmad, is 11 years old and weighs 30 kilograms. He eventually won his fight by KO. The other two sons, 10 and 9 years old, won unanimous decisions and were awarded miniaturized belts for their efforts while Kadyrov’s henchmen celebrated around them.

The video of the fight is available here.

The next day, the President of the Russian MMA Union, Fedor Emelianenko, criticized Kadyrov’s promotion for hosting child fights.

“What happened at the tournament in Grozny is unacceptable and, moreover, cannot be justified,” he wrote on his social media account. “Needless to say that kids under age of 12 cannot even attend MMA fights (in Russia) as spectators, but here we had little ones as young as eight beating each other up in front of happy adults.

“I am outraged by the fact that the head of Chechnya was watching over it. Didn’t [the Chechen] sports minister tell him about the fact that children under 12 cannot participate in MMA under any circumstances?”

Fedor’s criticism was met with public humiliation and threats from the Chechen people, mainly Kadyrov’s fighters and cronies. UFC lightweight contender Khabib Nurmagomedov, WSOF flyweight champion Magomed Bibulatov, Akhmat MMA president Abuzayed Vismuradov, and others all had choice words for Fedor for his decision to stand against them.

One of Kadyrov’s closest allies, State Duma rep Adam Delimkhanov, even threatened that Fedor will be “held responsible for his words against Kadyrov’s children.”

It was later reported that the Russian Sports Ministry will launch an investigation into the matter.

link

wonderfullife

riffmongous wrote: »

Saw this in a few places, even the BBC. I'm surprised Fedor spoke out as I thought he was fairly close to Putin. Hopefully nothing bad happens to him



link

What's worth pointing out here is Khabib issued a veiled threat this week on the Luke Thomas Podcast.

He said "if i don't get a title shot next, i will ensure the UFC never enters Russia. Conor McGregor thinks he has power with Ireland behind him, i will show the UFC what power is".

When he's backed so closely by a heinous dictator with close ties to Putin, you have to take that threat at face value.

Kadyrov himself then went on a rant about McGregor getting the title shot and mocking him.

It's important to note one thing. Children do martial arts and children do boxing. And there are boxing tournaments and fights at a young age in boxing.

But the difference here is that these children didn't volunteer for these fights or want to fight or even train to fight. They were forced to fight. Hand-picked to fight.

That's not MMA. It's not even fighting. It's cruelty to make kids bash the head off each other who don't want to fight.

Karim Zidan does excellent work and journalism on this whole area, well worth looking him up.

riffmongous

Yeah and doing it for the entertainment of a crowd of adults is sick. And jesus, imagine being the child picked to fight one of Kadyrov's kids, their family must have been ****ting it

wonderfullife

riffmongous wrote: »

Yeah and doing it for the entertainment of a crowd of adults is sick. And jesus, imagine being the child picked to fight one of Kadyrov's kids, their family must have been ****ting it

you'd surely have to tell them to fight hard but make sure the Kadyrov kid wins. The mental pressure on the parents must be something else. Knowing if their kid somehow wins they could all disappear in the morning.

"the whim of a madman"

Depp

fair enough kids training in mma but putting them in a cage on a pro card is disgusting. also I know how deep in kadyrovs pockets khabib is but im very surprised to see him supporting this.

re the whole russia thing, ufc are probably better off staying out at this stage, let them stick to kids matches and 5-on-5s.

DrPhilG

I look forward to seeing how Dana deals with threats like that!

Dtp1979

Surprised at khabib. Didn't realise he was such a dirtbag

wonderfullife

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Surprised at khabib. Didn't realise he was such a dirtbag

The more you learn about Khabib's ties to Kadyrov and some of the horrific stuff he condones, the worse it gets.

Personally, i hope Michael Johnson knocks him into next week at UFC 205.

75,000 people signed a petition online for Vladimir Putin to protect Fedor! That just shows you the reputation of Kadyrov and his supporters that Russians felt they had to do something to try get their hero protected.

Fedor is lucky that he's a close personal friend of Putin otherwise he'd be mince meat or disappeared. And Kadyrov is lucky that Putin doesn't fancy another war otherwise he'd be mince meat too.

The whole thing is pretty sickening. Nikita Krylov who had a great win at UFC 201, came out and said he'd challenge any Russian to a fight to defend Fedors honour.

To top it all off, Fabricio Werdum keeps sticking his beak in to defend Kadyrov at every opportunity.

I'm just glad no Irish/UK based fighters have got messed up in this ....yet!!

riffmongous

Another interesting article from Zidan on it

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/10/7/13201324/feature-putin-troubled-alliance-kadyrov-fedor-child-fights-chechnya-mma-scandal

Lukker-

Werdum showing his true colours again backing up Ahkmet MMA and Kadyrov.

Depp

kind've ignored guys being involved with this guy when it was just smiling in a pic and taking a cheque but the guys involved with defending this have all taken a big step down in my estimation. Mad respect to fedor speaking out with the obvious danger of fucking with this guy

wonderfullife

Depp wrote: »

kind've ignored guys being involved with this guy when it was just smiling in a pic and taking a cheque but the guys involved with defending this have all taken a big step down in my estimation. Mad respect to fedor speaking out with the obvious danger of fucking with this guy

Kadyrov has an army of loons behind him as well who'd gladly disappear Fedor in a heartbeat. Takes some courage to speak up against him. It obviously helps that Fedor is a friend of Putin but even still, some stones.

Lukker-

Reports that Fedor's daughter has been hospitalized in Moscow after being attacked by Kadyrov supporter's. She's 9.

wonderfullife

Lukker- wrote: »

Reports that Fedor's daughter has been hospitalized in Moscow after being attacked by Kadyrov supporter's. She's 9.

Disgusting. Punched in the chest by a grown man on her way home from school.

This is going to get out of control real fast. Kadyrov supporters are lunatics. Fedor is going to end up dead if Putin doesn't sort this out.

ASOT

I personally dont care but i like reading different peoples opinions on the matter; Werdum at it again.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BP5fKOkgOq1/

riffmongous

Maybe it was Werdum who beat up Emelianenko's daughter?

laoch na mona

Fighters are humans like anyone else, some are good people others are dick head.

Some will have dodgy opinions (which is subjective) doesn't mean you can't enjoy them as fighters

ASOT

Another from Kadyrov

https://www.mmafighting.com/2017/7/18/15995054/chechen-warlord-mma-promoter-ramzan-kadyrov-would-condone-violence-against-gays-by-relatives-russian

riffmongous

Old thread I started years ago (where does the time go?) that might be relevant again. In the UFC at the moment we have a fighter who's publicly best buds with one of the vilest people on the planet and there's barely a peep about it. I know it's a different situation to other sports where teams directly represent Russia but it's still pretty sickening to read about

"Mansur Sadulaev is the founder of the Swedish-based Chechen human rights organisation, Vayfond. Sadulaev said the fighters who are close with Kadyrov are well aware of his totalitarian regime and they give the leader a voice to share his propaganda.

“These [fighters] are well aware of the horrors this Putin mafia is doing in Chechnya,” Sadulaev told Bloody Elbow. “They know about kidnappings, torture, rape of women and murders. However, they prefer to get their expensive Mercedes and praise these maniacs, thereby helping [Kadyrov's government] cover up all their criminal activities. They became the mouthpiece of Kadyrov’s propaganda.”

“[Kadyrov’s] task is to attract the growing youth on his side, as well as to show the whole world that all Chechens are satisfied with him as a leader. Propaganda plays a huge role in transforming democracy into dictatorship and also greatly contributes to strengthening the power of the dictator."

Chimaev has posed for several pictures with Kadyrov in the past, but has refrained from mentioning the Chechen leader's name in any recent social media posts since Russia invaded Ukraine in February."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/mma/khamzat-chimaev-vladimir-putin-ufc-26669195

riffmongous

I actually meant to bump this thread myself lately as Khabib was reported to have fled Russia a few weeks ago after being set-up on tax evasion charges... What the truth of the matter is, is not so clear

https://www.mmaweekly.com/news/khabib-nurmagomedov-flees-russia-amid-3-million-debt-controversy

https://www.thesportster.com/ufc-legend-khabib-nurmagomedov-legal-trouble-tax-evasion/

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/99650705#Comment_99650705

Funny how he did whore himself out to a Dictator. 😂 I wouldn't expect anymore from him.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057594604/fighters-lives-outside-the-cage-does-it-matter

Fighting is odd, its so unlike any other sport,

I don't "support" any fighter but some i like to watch, the out come doesn't upset or effect me like a Football match or Gaa match with your favourite team, I watch to see someones talent

Also you have to remember to fight takes a certain type of individual & so i'm never surprised when you hear osme a head cases you do daft things, Like they fight other savages for a living of course at time s they will be a bit unhinged compared to your eveyday man.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630923#Comment_122630923

Happens to the best of us