New Minister for Transport

howiya

end of the road wrote: »

obviously he is clueless to the fact luas is operated by a private company under contract, so therefore the state cannot get involved. a mouth thinking he's playing hardball, when in fact he is just showing himself up.

In the interview he says that Transdev is a private company so I think he's aware of that

jimmycrackcorm

howiya wrote:

In the interview he says that Transdev is a private company so I think he's aware of that

Not only that but he is very subtlety letting the union know they aren't going to get any shrift from trying to get the government involved

monument

end of the road wrote: »

obviously he is clueless to the fact luas is operated by a private company under contract, so therefore the state cannot get involved. a mouth thinking he's playing hardball, when in fact he is just showing himself up.

Going by what's quoted above, there is zero conflict between what you are saying (ie "therefore the state cannot get involved") and what he said (ie " But it will be resolved without the intervention of the State and without the State's cheque book").

minikin

Just heard on radio: Minister Ross has created a bit of a stink with his announcement of Fingal Area Rapid Transit. He said it's going to be silent but deadly.

thomasj

minikin wrote:

Just heard on radio: Minister Ross has created a bit of a stink with his announcement of Fingal Area Rapid Transit. He said it's going to be silent but deadly.

You didnt see any tumbelweed fly past by any chance did you ?

minikin

minikin wrote: »

Just heard on radio: Minister Ross has created a bit of a stink with his announcement of Fingal Area Rapid Transit. He said it's going to be silent but deadly.

Very good!!! Best avoid lifts in the area.

Chivito550

So I emailed our new minister for transport (who I gave my number one vote to in my constituency) a few weeks ago. He's completely ignored it. I was a bit frustrated about spending 60 minutes on a bus to go from Ballinteer to Camden St, so took the opportunity to list everything about public transport in Dublin which is so so wrong. Is it taboo for me to post up my email to him here? If not, I'll post it up for the craic, as it seems like I won't be getting any reply at this stage.

MrJones2013

Chivito550 wrote: »

So I emailed our new minister for transport (who I gave my number one vote to in my constituency) a few weeks ago. He's completely ignored it. I was a bit frustrated about spending 60 minutes on a bus to go from Ballinteer to Camden St, so took the opportunity to list everything about public transport in Dublin which is so so wrong. Is it taboo for me to post up my email to him here? If not, I'll post it up for the craic, as it seems like I won't be getting any reply at this stage.

Throw up the list you came up with and see what peoples feelings are towards it (no doubt some people will have all the answers to each of your points)......is there a limit to the number of characters allowed per post?

Chivito550

Not impressed that he didn't at least acknowledge my email.

Dear Shane,

Firstly congratulations on your appointment as Minister of Transport and I wish you the very best of luck in the role.

As a full time public transport user, who resides in the Dublin Rathdown area I will be keeping a keen eye on how things progress over this coming term of government. I gave you my number one vote in the recent general election, and in return I expect to see proper progress into improving public transport in Dublin. Granted some of the things I have suggested won’t be achieved overnight, but there needs to be proper progress towards them, if this city is to improve. We are currently in the top 10 most congested cities in the world, according to a recent study. This needs to change.

As things stand public transport in Dublin is an embarrassment. We have a third world public transport system. You of course, are well aware of this. We are heavily reliant on bus transport, a mode which has low capacity and is incredibly slow and unreliable. Only this morning I spent 60 minutes on a bus from Kingston in Ballinteer to the top of Camden St. Imagine somebody in Oslo or Copenhagen having to do something similar. It would never happen.

I would strongly encourage you to take a trip to Oslo, Copenhagen and Nuremberg (among others) to see how a city our size operates, and bring back proper ideas which can be implemented here. We need to stop benchmarking ourselves off medium size UK cities. If we are to progress we need to see how the best operate. Oslo for example, a city of our size, has 5 underground metro lines, 6 tram lines, all which interconnect with each other, and another 5 or so commuter train lines, and cars will be banned from the centre of the city by 2019.

In general our city is far too car-centric. Nobody in the government over the years has had the balls to actually do much about it. The motor driver has too much power, and as a result our city is horribly congested, a miserable experience for pedestrians, and quite dangerous for cyclists.

I will give a specific example of Nuremberg, a city which is everything Dublin is not, which I visited last December. It is a similar size to Dublin.

Firstly, a large portion of the city centre is completely pedestrianized. I’m not just talking isolated streets like with Grafton street, but an interconnected network of pedestrian streets. Then the roads in the city centre that do allow cars are never all that busy with them, as it seems like such a pain in the rear end to drive into the city centre that most don’t bother. Cars seem to drive around the city centre, rather than through it. It makes walking around a very pleasant experience.

Secondly, the public transport is top notch for a city which is not really that big. They have 3 underground U-Bahn lines, which interconnect with each other in more than just one centralized point. I only took the underground to Furth, so can only speak for the frequency on that line (though I assume it’s the same on all 3), but looking at the timetable at the platform, they come every 3 minutes during peak hours, and every 7 minutes off peak.

Then you have 5 tram lines which all interconnect with each other and with the U-Bahn. On top of all that there’s 4 S-Bahn train lines which serve the outer suburbs. 2 of them are city to suburb, and 2 of them are suburb to city out to different suburb. The timetables show that they come 2 to 3 times per hour all day. There are plenty of buses too which I didn’t really look into.

Also, I went out to Bamberg for the day, population 71,000. Despite being a small city they had around 8-9 platforms in their train station. Imagine a city that size in Ireland having that. Then they have a pretty good bus network too. Not amazing, but for the size of the city it looks very decent. Buses come every 15 minutes at peak hours, while every 30 minutes off peak. This is miles ahead of places like Limerick and Galway.

I hope you can absorb this information, and really consider meeting with the transport minister in Norway, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland or Austria. It is only when we accept that these places are 50 years ahead of us, will we actually see progress.

I know you can’t be blamed for decades of dreadful governments who neglected public transport, dismantled one of the world’s best tram networks, and dismantled well over half of our railway lines, who bowed to the power of automobile and oil companies. However, you have the power to make change. I truly believe you will not let your voters down in this regard.

A few final questions:

1) Why is public transport in this country always viewed as a cost? Of course metro underground lines are expensive, but other countries view them as an investment, not a cost. If countries like Portugal can do it then why not us? The route the 16 bus takes through Harold’s Cross, Terenure, Rathfarnham is in dire need of an underground line. There are several other routes that need this too. With the increase in population forecasted, congestion is only going to get worse on our roads.

2) Why is construction of the Metro North line not planned to start until 2021? Forgive my skepticism but this strikes me as something which the government has no intention of doing, and is merely pre-election promises to gain votes. Why do we need to wait another 5 years before we start building? Not one person I have spoken to believes that this will go ahead. About 2 years down the line it will be scrapped and a new plan will be drafted. It’s always the same in this country. It happened with Dart Underground and it will happen again, and it is most disheartening. I would have thought the Rugby World Cup bid for 2023 would have been an incentive to get this project over the line before then.

3) Why is there not a simple touch on-touch off system on Dublin buses? It’s ridiculous that we have to pay the bus driver (either by coins or by Leap). This is unbelievably slow.

4) Why have we not got a proper integrated ticketing system between Bus, train, DART and LUAS? It’s crazy to have to pay again (even if it is discounted) when you change to another bus/tram etc. The public transport should be a simple 2 hour fare, and operated in simple zones, with touch on and touch off at all times. If somebody forgets to touch off, they automatically pay the highest fare. Simple.

5) It is very frustrating the way things operate here. Why does everything relating to Dublin when it comes to public transport have to go through national government? In places like Germany, local government makes decisions for local areas. Here if the government decides Dublin will get a metro, you have people in Templemore and Longford looking for one too. This is why nothing ever gets done, and why Dublin languishes in the dark ages in this regard.

6) Finally we need members of the government to set a good example and actively take public transport. Being honest, how many members of the Dail drive to work? This is part of the problem. The car seems to be a status symbol in this country.

A long email, but I am very passionate about my city, and I absolutely detest our public transport system. We are selling ourselves very short in this regard. Having lived overseas in Melbourne for 3 years, and having travelled to 37 countries in my 31 years to date, I know a thing or two about what is an efficient public transport system, and we do not even come close.

If you’ve any more questions you’d like to ask me I am more than happy to help.

I look forward to your reply.

Kind regards,

MrJones2013

Chivito550 wrote: »

Not impressed that he didn't at least acknowledge my email.

I would be interested to hear his reply, the country as a whole is gone too car centric and although I cannot speak from personal experience the public transport system in Dublin does seem below par at the moment.

If growth continues and projects like the Metro North and the Dart Underground are constantly put on the back burner and never even started let alone completed, then Dublin will for ever be playing catch up and have an inferior public transport system which doesn't entice people out of their cars and traffic congestion will continue to be a major issue.

I have said it on other threads we are playing catch up when it comes to public transport as it is, the government and specifically the Minister for Transport need to start planning and future proofing our public transport network with the aim of getting people out of cars and on to public transit and not pawn the problem off on the next generation.

Chivito550

MrJones2013 wrote: »

I would be interested to hear his reply, the country as a whole is gone too car centric and although I cannot speak from personal experience the public transport system in Dublin does seem below par at the moment.

If growth continues and projects like the Metro North and the Dart Underground are constantly put on the back burner and never even started let alone copmpleted, then Dublin will for ever be playing catch up and have an inferior public transport system which doesn't entice people out of their cars and traffic congestion will continue to be a major issue.

I have said it on other threads we are playing catch up when it comes to public transport as it is, the government and specifically the Minister for Transport need to start planning and future proofing our public transport network with the aim of getting people out of cars and on to public transit and not pawn the problem off on the next generation.

The fact Transport is lumped in with Tourism and Sport shows that it is low priority for the government.

Was in Paris at the weekend. Went everywhere by metro and train. So so easy to get around. On the contrary a friend from the UK was over last year for a gig in Croke Park. I told her to meet us after up in Camden St. She asked me what's the best way to get there. Knowing it would be absolute chaos catching any form of public transport post gig, or even getting a taxi, my advice was simple, to walk. This wouldn't happen on the continent. I left Roland Garros at the weekend, an event with large crowds (albeit, not all leaving at the same time) and there was a choice of metro stops within a 10 minute walk away. I was back in the city centre in no time. Easy.

MrJones2013

Chivito550 wrote: »

The fact Transport is lumped in with Tourism and Sport shows that it is low priority for the government.

Was in Paris at the weekend. Went everywhere by metro and train. So so easy to get around. On the contrary a friend from the UK was over last year for a gig in Croke Park. I told her to meet us after up in Camden St. She asked me what's the best way to get there. Knowing it would be absolute chaos catching any form of public transport post gig, or even getting a taxi, my advice was simple, to walk. This wouldn't happen on the continent. I left Roland Garros at the weekend, an event with large crowds (albeit, not all leaving at the same time) and there was a choice of metro stops within a 10 minute walk away. I was back in the city centre in no time. Easy.

I think someone may have mentioned it previously but it is frustrating how easy it is to negotiate your way around cities in most other countries in the world via public transport. I lived in Canada for a couple of years and never invested in a car, no need. It was so simple to get around, the majority of modes of public transport were interconnected, had regular services and were reliable......it was a dream!

BoatMad

) Why is construction of the Metro North line not planned to start until 2021? Forgive my skepticism but this strikes me as something which the government has no intention of doing, and is merely pre-election promises to gain votes. Why do we need to wait another 5 years before we start building? Not one person I have spoken to believes that this will go ahead. About 2 years down the line it will be scrapped and a new plan will be drafted. It’s always the same in this country. It happened with Dart Underground and it will happen again, and it is most disheartening. I would have thought the Rugby World Cup bid for 2023 would have been an incentive to get this project over the line before then.

to deal with one of you issues, the reason is the inability of the Gov under the fiscal compact to borrow huge sums of additional money. MN is pushed out on the basis that the improving deficit gap allows more " fiscal space !" in the future

remember we were only recently broke

you should also note that countries like Norway have far higher taxes then ireland, and that tax is spread throughout the population to a much grater extent. i.e. the poor pay more proportionally in most developed countries then they do in ireland

( or course we needing mentioned the huge oil income in Norway too )

Ireland can never build system like in germany , we do not have the mass of people paying tax that they do , remember this is on elf the most sparsely populated countries in Europe

McAlban

BoatMad wrote: »

( or course we needing mentioned the huge oil income in Norway too )

Not to mention the massive difference in cost of living there.

n97 mini

Chivito550 wrote: »

Not impressed that he didn't at least acknowledge my email.

They have either 30 or 40 days to reply iirc.

Edit: I just read your email, and I know if I was the Minister I would be frustrated by emails like that. The first half is basically saying there are lots of places that do it better. I think everyone knows that. The second half was a list of complaints with and the odd suggestion of what to do.

We can't have Oslo's system, because we're not Oslo. We have to take what we have and improve it and build on it. I think if I were minister I would be interested to hear specific suggestions on how to improve Dublin's transport system, and realistic ones that have some hope of getting done. Zero-cost ones are the best, like getting Dublin Bus to compliment rail services, not compete with them, which is just a matter of timetabling.

Chivito550

BoatMad wrote: »

to deal with one of you issues, the reason is the inability of the Gov under the fiscal compact to borrow huge sums of additional money. MN is pushed out on the basis that the improving deficit gap allows more " fiscal space !" in the future

remember we were only recently broke

you should also note that countries like Norway have far higher taxes then ireland, and that tax is spread throughout the population to a much grater extent. i.e. the poor pay more proportionally in most developed countries then they do in ireland

( or course we needing mentioned the huge oil income in Norway too )

Ireland can never build system like in germany , we do not have the mass of people paying tax that they do , remember this is on elf the most sparsely populated countries in Europe

Norway is just one example though. Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Switzerland (very low tax), Austria all show us up. Polish cities are very well serviced by public transport as is Prague. Lisbon has an underground and they've been broke quite a bit over the years. Even Newcastle have an underground and that is a small city. I think we're making too many excuses here.

BoatMad

Chivito550 wrote: »

Norway is just one example though. Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Switzerland (very low tax), Austria all show us up. Polish cities are very well serviced by public transport as is Prague. Lisbon has an underground and they've been broke quite a bit over the years. Even Newcastle have an underground and that is a small city. I think we're making too many excuses here.

oh i agree with your argument in general , the primary problem is the need to continuously divert investment into rural projects everytime a project is planned for dublin , the one for everyone in the audience is ruining dublin

Chivito550

n97 mini wrote: »

They have either 30 or 40 days to reply iirc.

Edit: I just read your email, and I know if I was the Minister I would be frustrated by emails like that. The first half is basically saying there are lots of places that do it better. I think everyone knows that. The second half was a list of complaints with and the odd suggestion of what to do.

We can't have Oslo's system, because we're not Oslo. We have to take what we have and improve it and build on it. I think if I were minister I would be interested to hear specific suggestions on how to improve Dublin's transport system, and realistic ones that have some hope of getting done. Zero-cost ones are the best, like getting Dublin Bus to compliment rail services, not compete with them, which is just a matter of timetabling.

Perhaps. I was very frustrated when I wrote it after all. But I stand by my point about benchmarking. Why can't our transport minister make visits to some of these countries, meet with transport ministers abroad? It doesn't sound like an unreasonable suggestion. Thinking outside the box and trying to take some elements (not all are possible) which are successfully implemented abroad).

thomasj

Bear in mind the minister will also need to consult with the NTA/TFI on this. He can't just just make promises or answer some of those questions, he needs advice from the guys with the more experience and knowledge on these issues

BoatMad

Chivito550 wrote: »

Perhaps. I was very frustrated when I wrote it after all. But I stand by my point about benchmarking. Why can't our transport minister make visits to some of these countries, meet with transport ministers abroad? It doesn't sound like an unreasonable suggestion. Thinking outside the box and trying to take some elements (not all are possible) which are successfully implemented abroad).

its not unreasonable, to visit and learn , but these states are considerably better financed then we are. Norway would not have half the stuff it has were it not for oil income

Chivito550

BoatMad wrote: »

its not unreasonable, to visit and learn , but these states are considerably better financed then we are. Norway would not have half the stuff it has were it not for oil income

Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland. Do they all have oil income?

During the Celtic Tiger we were one of the richest countries in the world, and we invested awfully little into public transport. An opportunity wasted.

BoatMad

Chivito550 wrote: »

Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland. Do they all have oil income?

you are aware of their respective populations and GNP , right ? ireland is right after Greece,

so lets compare athens with Dublin

MrJones2013

Chivito550 wrote: »

Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland. Do they all have oil income?

During the Celtic Tiger we were one of the richest countries in the world, and we invested awfully little into public transport. An opportunity wasted.

Another item I mentioned in another thread, cash was poured in to bypasses and motorways all over the country (most were needed to be fair but not all), and very little invested in Public Transport and now they are trying to get people out of cars and on to buses/railways after all that invesment!

I sound like a parrot I know but the government needs to start planning for the future and not playing catch up at a later date.

Chivito550

BoatMad wrote: »

you are aware of their respective populations and GNP , right ? ireland is right after Greece,

so lets compare athens with Dublin

What about Lisbon so? Portugal is not exactly loaded is it.

2RockMountain

Chivito550 wrote: »

Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland. Do they all have oil income?

During the Celtic Tiger we were one of the richest countries in the world, and we invested awfully little into public transport. An opportunity wasted.

We were never one of the richest countries in the world. That was just fictional accounting and economics.

MrJones2013

Athens (including a line to the airport, imagine that):

BoatMad

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Athens (including a line to the airport, imagine that):

the line to the airport is one of the glaring examples of screwed up thinking in dublin , even today despite heavy rail lines, we are now going to build a different gauge track to the airport

dont get me wrong , Im not saying dublin is a paradise

MrJones2013

BoatMad wrote: »

the line to the airport is one of the glaring examples of screwed up thinking in dublin , even today despite heavy rail lines, we are now going to build a different gauge track to the airport

dont get me wrong , Im not saying dublin is a paradise

The lack of a line to any airport in the country, LUAS lines that didn't intersect when initially built are glaring examples of this and it's not just Dublin, it's the whole country.

Chivito550

And a little closer to home, a city considerable smaller than ours.

BoatMad

MrJones2013 wrote: »

The lack of a line to any airport in the country, LUAS lines that didn't intersect when initially built are glaring examples of this and it's not just Dublin, it's the whole country.

I agree, lets just hand it all back to the brits and say sorry