Earth to run out of water by 2050

SEPT 23 1989

kupus wrote: »

I wonder is this a reason why Irish water was pushed through very quickly with the view to be privatised in years to come?

I read a few years ago in a trade magazine that water in the future will be the new liquid gold due to intensive farming in Africa China and elsewhere and now is the time to get your fingers in the pie.

Two things will happen

1 We wont have the right to harvest the sea water under some brown envelope EU directive

2. the freedom jets will scream in to liberate us

kupus

BattleCorp wrote: »

Are you suggesting Irish Water was set up with the long term goal of supplying Africa and China with water?

jimgoose wrote: »

No, he's suggesting that IW is an attempt to turn a hitherto public water supply into a private revenue stream, in-line with much of the rest of the world as potable water suppliescome under increasing strain.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Two things will happen

1 We wont have the right to harvest the sea water under some brown envelope EU directive

2. the freedom jets will scream in to liberate us

What I'm suggesting is that in years to come, water companies will be the equivalent of oil companies today. There will only be a few. And they will be just as if not more powerful.

Oil has been done, power and energy has been done, mining has been done, construction has been done.
Water is the next commodity. It makes money out of money that was never there in the first place.... It creates huge construction jobs to keep money circulating, building dams etc...

It's a long term play. Lobbyists agitate for privatisation of water companies. To take the power away from local politicians in control of local supply sources. So they give bs studies that privatisation is the only way forward blah blah blah, politicians buy into it. They Get their thirty pieces of silver and hey presto. A new water company is formed. Of course it's ran badly so becomes a cause of concern so it needs to be taken over by a knight in shiny armour..

Wash rinse repeat...

Eugene Norman

jimgoose wrote: »

No, he's suggesting that IW is an attempt to turn a hitherto public water supply into a private revenue stream, in-line with much of the rest of the world as potable water suppliescome under increasing strain.

Potable supplies could only come under strain in Ireland because of bad infrastructure.

Eugene Norman

kupus wrote: »

What I'm suggesting is that in years to come, water companies will be the equivalent of oil companies today. There will only be a few. And they will be just as if not more powerful.

Oil has been done, power and energy has been done, mining has been done, construction has been done.
Water is the next commodity. It makes money out of money that was never there in the first place.... It creates huge construction jobs to keep money circulating, building dams etc...

It's a long term play. Lobbyists agitate for privatisation of water companies. To take the power away from local politicians in control of local supply sources. So they give bs studies that privatisation is the only way forward blah blah blah, politicians buy into it. They Get their thirty pieces of silver and hey presto. A new water company is formed. Of course it's ran badly so becomes a cause of concern so it needs to be taken over by a knight in shiny armour..

Wash rinse repeat...

That's a case against privatisation. It's not an argument against users paying.

kupus

I've no arguement against paying. I believe you have to pay for it.
I'm just giving the scenario of what is to come. When outside interests dictate what is your gov policy.

Water is gold. The real money men have ploughed the money in already and now comes the Wild West era. Next will be the lows, followed by the stabilisation of the new commodity.

jimgoose

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Potable supplies could only come under strain in Ireland because of bad infrastructure.

Oh to be sure, I was referring to the global situation.

ScumLord

kupus wrote: »

What I'm suggesting is that in years to come, water companies will be the equivalent of oil companies today. There will only be a few. And they will be just as if not more powerful.

There would be hundreds in Ireland, as any fool with a bucket could get into the water industry.

I don't see water getting as bad as oil. Water is literally everywhere, it's essential but not really rare or finite like oil. It's also essential to human life so if big companies put the squeeze on and try to monopolise water it's one sure fire way to cause social unrest and upheaval, people won't stick to a social system that gets them killed.

Eugene Norman

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Why it is wasted if it is used? And why wouldn't China try guarantee food security. California is also arid and one of the world's major crop producers.

There's a fundamental misunderstanding of the water cycle in this thread.

The water cycle isn't working in many of these places, simply due to the fact that people are extracting the water from the local environment at a far faster rate than nature replenishes the underground aquifers.

When they eventually dry out, then it's "game over" for many arid areas.

kupus

Is it really game over, a lot of these arid areas have been bought up by hedge funds and universities. The ones that China were unable to buy for some reason.

They don't throw their money about for no reason. What do they know that we don't.

Land grabbers is supposed to be a good read for anybody interested. I haven't read it yet, cos i haven't had time.

kupus

kupus wrote: »

Is it really game over, a lot of these arid areas have been bought up by hedge funds and universities. The ones that China were unable to buy for some reason.

They don't throw their money about for no reason. What do they know that we don't.

Land grabbers is supposed to be a good read for anybody interested. I haven't read it yet, cos i haven't had time.

It is when they're unable to import sufficient water to grow the crops!

As for buying up land, they’re probably hoping to sell it on to the "greater fool", usually the small time investors, or their agents who just do the trade for commission.

Eugene Norman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The water cycle isn't working in many of these places, simply due to the fact that people are extracting the water from the local environment at a far faster rate than nature replenishes the underground aquifers.

When they eventually dry out, then it's "game over" for many arid areas.

If the water is non renewable, yeah. But California's supply is run off from its snow melt, and I presume China's flow from rivers and Egypt, with the Nile is similar. That is, it's renewable if maybe seasonal. Which isn't to say they won't be affected by drought at some time but water isn't running out "locally" provided it continues to rain.

How many arid lands are extracting water from wells to that extent anyway.

Eugene Norman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is when they're unable to import sufficient water to grow the crops!

As for buying up land, they’re probably hoping to sell it on to the "greater fool", usually the small time investors, or their agents who just do the trade for commission.

How many countries "import water" for crops? I don't mean potable water in bottles for drinking (Ireland imports water and we have plenty), not diverted rivers, but large water supplies piped in.

I don't see that as an industry.

Hans Bricks

riffmongous wrote: »

Well when cheap food from these places in so longer available we will see an effect here, not to mention the immigration crisis. It might not be our problem at the moment but it is certainly in our best interests to deal with it before the knock-on effects reach here.

Ireland produces enough food to feed a population of 30 + million from recent reading. I stand to be corrected. Turn those exports into local produce.

Sure the French and British will do our crowd control for us. I doubt little to none will make it to the other side of the chunnel.

riffmongous

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Ireland produces enough food to feed a population of 30 + million from recent reading. I stand to be corrected. Turn those exports into local produce.

Sure the French and British will do our crowd control for us. I doubt little to none will make it to the other side of the chunnel.

It's not about running out of food here (we can all live on potatoes afterall :pac: ) but rather the price of food, people have become accustomed to cheap food, a lot of it based on importation of food from poorer areas rather than producing it at home, look at all the food we import into Ireland, even beef and dairy

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/half-of-nations-food-bill-goes-on-imported-goods-26871990.html

Eugene Norman

Eugene Norman wrote: »

How many countries "import water" for crops? I don't mean potable water in bottles for drinking (Ireland imports water and we have plenty), not diverted rivers, but large water supplies piped in.

I don't see that as an industry.

I'm referring to those places where they are "mining the aquifers", aquifers that took many thousands of years to fill up and will be sucked dry in decades, when they're dry, the region will have to import water to continue operating. The costs of such pipelines will quite likely make agriculture in those places non-viable.

It just means that more rain forest will be flattened for agriculture.

riffmongous

Eugene Norman wrote: »

If the water is non renewable, yeah. But California's supply is run off from its snow melt, and I presume China's flow from rivers and Egypt, with the Nile is similar. That is, it's renewable if maybe seasonal. Which isn't to say they won't be affected by drought at some time but water isn't running out "locally" provided it continues to rain.

How many arid lands are extracting water from wells to that extent anyway.

Libya is one, they move most of their agricultural water to the coastal regions from groundwater under the Sahara through huge pipes, the Great Man Made River, this is projected to run out in 50 years or so though.

But also

On the import of water, the study offered several options, including from Turkey and Gabon. In 2011, Libya sought to import water from the Turkish Manavgat River to Tobruk through three carriers. The first batch was agreed to be free of charge as an experiment for agricultural use.

Israel was also looking to import Turkish water. A lot of the water is undoubtedly just going to waste too through poor irrigation techniques, water that evaporates as interception or from the soil is waste as it won't contribute to transpiration and hence crop yield. This should be the one of the first things to be sorted out.

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2015/3/22/severe-water-crisis-looming-in-libya

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man-Made_River

Sam Kade

Ogallala Aquifer is being depleted since the 1950's if it is drained it will take 6000 years to replenish. The Ogallala Aquifer supplies drinking water and irigates farmland in the U.S.

Lau2976

Just another reason everyone should go vegan!

But more seriously, whether it's 34 years or 340 years, the way we view water really needs to be addressed. And I don't necessarily mean paying for it. We need to look at exactly what water is being used for and whether that's a good use for a natural resource that is needed to sustain life.

Sam Kade

Lau2976 wrote: »

Just another reason everyone should go vegan!

But more seriously, whether it's 34 years or 340 years, the way we view water really needs to be addressed. And I don't necessarily mean paying for it. We need to look at exactly what water is being used for and whether that's a good use for a natural resource that is needed to sustain life.

How's going vegan going to save water? The water is always there it's just that it's getting less where it's needed.

Lau2976

Sam Kade wrote: »

How's going vegan going to save water? The water is always there it's just that it's getting less where it's needed.

The only qoute the OP posted?

“Nestle starts by pointing out that a calorie of meat requires 10 times as much water to produce as a calorie of food crops".

Nestlé certainly aren't the only ones to say that. It's been widely known for a long time.

iguana

Lau2976 wrote: »

The only qoute the OP posted?

“Nestle starts by pointing out that a calorie of meat requires 10 times as much water to produce as a calorie of food crops".

Nestlé certainly aren't the only ones to say that. It's been widely known for a long time.

Going vegan isn't really the answer either, it's just simplistic first assumption. The best thing to do in terms of food consumption is to eat locally produced food, whatever that may be. In a country like Ireland, where if anything our problem is too much water, meat and dairy consumption is likely far less damaging than shipping in fruits, vegetables and pulses from other parts of the world.

Capt'n Midnight

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Why it is wasted if it is used? And why wouldn't China try guarantee food security. California is also arid and one of the world's major crop producers.

There's a fundamental misunderstanding of the water cycle in this thread.

Pumping water into a desert to allow life is one thing. Using state funded water to undercut suppliers in a different part of the country is another. Cotton is a disaster. Only viable if you have lots of very cheap water. This isn't about growing vital food. This is about cash crops.

The Aral Sea used to be the size of this country. Fourth largest lake in the world. Thanks to cotton (bland , though high in fibre) it's now the Aralkum Desert. Fishing which used to employ 40,000 isn't as good as it used to be.


India and Saudi use a different solution. Rather than pump water to a desert they simply buy land in Africa and export the food back. Outbidding the locals is cheaper than expensive irrigation schemes.

Lau2976

iguana wrote: »

Going vegan isn't really the answer either, it's just simplistic first assumption. The best thing to do in terms of food consumption is to eat locally produced food, whatever that may be. In a country like Ireland, where if anything our problem is too much water, meat and dairy consumption is likely far less damaging than shipping in fruits, vegetables and pulses from other parts of the world.

Like I said it was a joke. And it's less to do with water and more to do with food stock.

iguana

Lau2976 wrote: »

Like I said it was a joke. And it's less to do with water and more to do with food stock.

Which again is why it makes sense to eat locally produced food of the kind that is best produced in the conditions of that location and which is of the most nutritional and calorific value to the populous.

kupus

iguana wrote: »

Which again is why it makes sense to eat locally produced food of the kind that is best produced in the conditions of that location and which is of the most nutritional and calorific value to the populous.

However, local people don't want that as it costs more. Farm grants from the eu have moved Ireland from a country that can provide for locals to one where it relies on subsidies to export its farm produce. A brilliant strategy. It kills local trade in order for cheaper imports.

Lau2976

iguana wrote: »

Which again is why it makes sense to eat locally produced food of the kind that is best produced in the conditions of that location and which is of the most nutritional and calorific value to the populous.

Honestly your reading way too much into a jab at over bearing vegans.

I agree but we mass produce meat because people like it. Not for sustainability. And that's the issue. Everything is mass production and excess. Look at celebrities in California using hoses when othe people barely had water to drink. With water we have out priorities all wrong.

iguana

Lau2976 wrote: »

Honestly your reading way too much into a jab at over bearing vegans.

It's just that it is something that a lot of people believe, that veganism is better for the planet. But I looked into it and it's not necessarily true depending on the part of the world you live in.

Grab All Association

I'm holding a water party this weekend in Nenagh.

http://40.media.tumblr.com/be7a91430f29f3c23e371b17c00f5ce4/tumblr_mu6m8agL7e1somw7ho1_1280.png