Inheritance Nightmares

Spanish Eyes

Choose an executor you can absolutely trust to do right by you. It does NOT have to be the solicitor who drafted the will. Take note!

But there are no guarantees either I suppose. Still, better to talk to them beforehand anyway, and lay out your stall. See what their reaction is.

Being an executor is a tough job sometimes. And boy do I know this. Family screaming, solicitors acting the Mick. It ain't pretty sometimes.

But if you are aware that you will be an executor, you can get your ducks in a row and do the best for the person who trusted you to be that executor. That's the bottom line.

Anyone who acts the mick after that is a gobsheen.

Shint0

intheclouds wrote: »

They can charge for expenses incurred. Our guy charged for a flight home from Spain to his own brothers funeral.

Sure, we MAY have been able to sue him for some back but that would have cost us more money.

Having been through years of problems with it I can categorically tell you that by the time you see what the executor has charged for your only recourse is to waste more money by suing him. No one is regulating people who are executors. It took us TWO years to force him to act at all!

What other type of expenses was he claiming for that amounted to 25k?

4ensic15

intheclouds wrote: »

They can charge for expenses incurred. Our guy charged for a flight home from Spain to his own brothers funeral.

Sure, we MAY have been able to sue him for some back but that would have cost us more money.

Having been through years of problems with it I can categorically tell you that by the time you see what the executor has charged for your only recourse is to waste more money by suing him. No one is regulating people who are executors. It took us TWO years to force him to act at all!

I meant can't in the sense that an executor can't legitimately charge.
Like many things it may not be desirable or practical to do anything about it. Attending a funeral is not an executor function and is not a legitimate expense of the administration. It may be in some cases the will specifies that the executor is to take charge of funeral arrangements and he may have to travel in connection with that aspect of the administration.

stoplooklisten

How long before after the death should the will be executed? Would 6 months + and the solicitor asking for 200 euro for every meeting without doing anything be normal? I think the solicitor is taking advantage of an elderly person.

4ensic15

stoplooklisten wrote: »

How long before after the death should the will be executed? Would 6 months + and the solicitor asking for 200 euro for every meeting without doing anything be normal? I think the solicitor is taking advantage of an elderly person.

The normal rule is that an executor has a year to gather in the assets of the estate and distribute them.

stoplooklisten

4ensic15 wrote: »

The normal rule is that an executor has a year to gather in the assets of the estate and distribute them.

Thanks, the executor is trying to..hmm I must look more in to things.

helimachoptor

When my maternal grandparents died (within a year of each other), they had 17 living children ( 2 had died)

They had a pretty large south dublin house with a big garden, always well maintained.

It was to be left to the youngest son (youngest in the family). My mother along with the oldest son were to be executors.

My god the amount of **** that went on, different family members asking would my mam support a challenge of the will saying my grandparents werent of sound mind etc, this was both from individuals and groups!

My grand parents died in 16 years ago.. the youngest son only moved in to the house last year :eek:

timthumbni

Days and Days wrote: »

It is never the children who will fight but the people who marry into the families tend to cause problems.

Hmmm. I haven't found this to be the case at all. Siblings turn full battle royale when it comes to dividing the spoils. It's like the Boxing Day sale at primark.

timthumbni

I have to add though that if a will isn't split equally between the siblings then it could lead to understandable problems. I'm excluding wayward drunk offspring or possibly even farmers ones that worked on the farm etc but it is a thin line to walk.

I intend to spend all my money whilst I'm alive and sell my house etc so as this won't be an issue with me. Lol.

ArnoldJRimmer

I have two different friends who had a similar scenario when their grannies died.

For one, she was left the house, rather than her father. Even though the father already owned a home, and she did not, he was extremely resentful about it. And he took this out on his own daughter, by constant snide remarks and a complete refusal to help her out with anything to do the house. Its baffling as the family aren't short of a bob or two either

For the other, my friend was left a large sum of money and with good reason. His father had a pretty bad drink problem and the granny knew that any money left to him would be p!ssed up against a wall. There was a violent altercation when his father drunkenly insisted that he be given his inheritance, but this ultimately turned out for the good. In seeing that his addiction had led him to attacking his own son, he gave it up for good. Hasn't touched a drop in 7 or 8 years

Calibos

One can still blame the siblings even if it wasn't their fault they were willed something. My grandfather wanted to will the entire family business and attached family home to my father as the eldest son and to will whatever remained to my fathers two siblings. that would have been a €900,000/€100,000/€100,000 asset split. Had my father accepted that he'd have been as much to blame for any falling out as the grandfather. My father as the fair minded man he was told my grandfather no way and that it was a terribly old fashioned way to think about things. He told my grandfather to just will everything equally to the 3 of them and that they would work out an equitable split themselves. Thats how it went in the end. Added up the worth of the entire estate, Goodwill/assets of the business, the value of the house and the money in the pension funds etc. Divided by 3 to get a cash figure. Father was running the business anyway and the siblings didn't want it, so the business value was subtracted from dads share. Father wanted the house so my father bought out the siblings 2 shares in the house. So basically my father took the business and the house and the siblings got the grandads pensions and money from their share of the house. Everyone happy, everyone got what they wanted and no falling out. It would have gotten very messy and rightly so if grandad had willed everything to my dad but more importantly had my dad just accepted it and not acted fairly with regard to his 2 other siblings.

TLDR. Grandparents or parents can be dicks for unfair wills but equally or more blame should go to the dicks that accept it.

Baby01032012

I know someone who is an only child. Parents in their 80s with €2m plus of assets. He knows that his father has a will. But has no idea what is in it.

His father has a very large family - brothers, sisters nephews nieces. Who may feel hard done by if they don't get a share. This is of concern to him. His fathers family reaction. His father has helped out family in past money wise. Recently though a sister was in bank debt due to unsustainable property loans. She came to her brother for advice - he didn't help her out financially which he could have done. So it is uncertain what she the others will get if any when his dad passes.
Another aspect is tax liability. With that amount of assets possibly being passed to the only child would result in a huge tax liability on the only child. The father probably isn't aware of this. I think he needs to sit down with his father and discuss his concerns. However he is hesitant to discuss such a sensitive subject with him.

intheclouds

Shint0 wrote: »

What other type of expenses was he claiming for that amounted to 25k?

His own solicitors fees were astronomical and not broken down. He charged for nights in 5 star hotels, 4 course meals, oh yeah, bottles of wine that were 100+ a bottle with the meals. It's a long time ago now but the things that stood out were his travel expenses and solicitors fees. He had a holiday home in Spain, his family home was in Ireland so he basically charged us for 3 years of his regular travel back and forth but made out that he stayed in hotels here when he came back to do executor stuff. There was one item that wasn't broken down for 5k that simply said "administering the estate".

Some of it was legit, estate agent fees and conveyance on the property, but 25k was taking the mick.

intheclouds

4ensic15 wrote: »

The normal rule is that an executor has a year to gather in the assets of the estate and distribute them.

Yeah, an executors year. So your hands are tied completely for a full year legally. Our guy did not respond to repeated requests for info, he didn't start probate, he allowed the only asset (the house) to sit uninsured and deteriorating, etc. We thought he didn't want to act so we had to wait it out then we send him a solicitors letter asking him to revoke the executorship and let us do it. Thus ensued another year of trying to get him to act, cost us money in sending solicitors letters.

It's so slow. Our solicitor would write, then allow 6 weeks to await a response, write again etc... Eventually we threatened to sue and he finally began to act.

smurfjed

@intheclouds....

Were you asked to approve these expenses ?

Shint0

intheclouds wrote: »

His own solicitors fees were astronomical and not broken down. He charged for nights in 5 star hotels, 4 course meals, oh yeah, bottles of wine that were 100+ a bottle with the meals. It's a long time ago now but the things that stood out were his travel expenses and solicitors fees. He had a holiday home in Spain, his family home was in Ireland so he basically charged us for 3 years of his regular travel back and forth but made out that he stayed in hotels here when he came back to do executor stuff. There was one item that wasn't broken down for 5k that simply said "administering the estate".

Some of it was legit, estate agent fees and conveyance on the property, but 25k was taking the mick.

Wow!
Was this individual a high ranking public servant by any chance? Sounds like a protege of the PS. That really is taking the proverbial. Glad you got it sorted in the end...minus the 25K

harr

My folks have told us they will be leaving us nothing,they don't have a whole lot a small house and a few quid in savings...they helped us with deposits for mortgages and stuff and are looking after the grandchildren very well..They have told us if they need a lot of care when they get older or nursing home the house is to be sold and used for that purpose...anything left over after that is to be divided evenly...I am happy with that arrangement as they are enjoying retirement and get a few nice holidays a year...they worked very hard all there lives and we were not rich by any means but never went without and they always put us first even if they had to do without.
But I can see trouble on my in laws side..my wife has 6 siblings and some will be money mad ,my wife's parents have a very large house and a nice bit of land as well as shares in various Business and the brother appointed executor is counting down the days till his parents funeral..which is sad..I want no part of it and have told my wife to stay out of it even though she is one who would be closest to them and does more for them than the rest put together.

intheclouds

smurfjed wrote: »

@intheclouds....

Were you asked to approve these expenses ?

Absolutely no visibility of any of it until AFTER the estate has been disposed of. My first knowledge of the 25k was in a letter from his solicitor to our solicitor detailing the executorship of the estate. He hadn't even done a lot of the job and had not bothered closing off utility accounts, chasing up bank accounts to close them etc.. We ended up doing a fair bit of chasing up ourselves.

intheclouds

Shint0 wrote: »

Wow!
Was this individual a high ranking public servant by any chance? Sounds like a protege of the PS. That really is taking the proverbial. Glad you got it sorted in the end...minus the 25K

You know something, this was who my father WANTED as his executor so he got what he asked for really.

He is dead himself now. A horrible git of a man in life.

smurfjed

Absolutely no visibility of any of it until AFTER the estate has been disposed of

I find this interesting as my solicitor is insisting that i get the accounts approved by the recipients of the estate.

P. Breathnach

smurfjed wrote: »

I find this interesting as my solicitor is insisting that i get the accounts approved by the recipients of the estate.

There's no legal basis for that, but I think it is wise to present the accounts to the residual beneficiaries. It's a good result if they say that they are happy with what has been done.

[By using the phrase "residual beneficiaries" I mean that people with specific bequests like "€1,000 to my friend John" or "€500 to <named charity>" need not be shown the accounts.]

Capt'n Midnight

smurfjed wrote: »

My sister has decided that despite two professional house valuations, she thinks that the house is worth more than the valuations and if we don't agree with her, she then wants her share of the house ownership transferred into her name. To what end i have no idea as what can she do with 25% of a house?

She could block a sale.


At a guess she wants 25% of the valuation. Would she settle for 25% of the nett proceeds after fees ? Would she pay for 25% of maintenance and property tax ?

If the house is to be disposed of, could you call her bluff by offering to sell out to her ? She hands over 75% of what she thinks it's worth and keeps what she can sell it for.

Shergar6

My parents don't have a will and seemingly no interest in getting one. Its never been discussed and in fairness, it's not something i want to bring up because it's not really my place. The family home is likely going to be left between me and my sister because my eldest sister got the plot of land beside us and my brother got a handout too -- but there is nothing official in place and how do you divide a house between 2 people> at present both of us still live at home because our mother needs full time care. But what if i want to move and need €? I can foresee big arguments and tension as my sister is not the easiest person to deal with and i am sure my other siblings will be poking their noses in for anything going. It's a worry and i am pissed off that my parents won't bother sorting it out.

I can only imagine what it's like when there is big money and assets going.

ThrillCosby

Shergar6 wrote: »

My parents don't have a will and seemingly no interest in getting one. Its never been discussed and in fairness, it's not something i want to bring up because it's not really my place. The family home is likely going to be left between me and my sister because my eldest sister got the plot of land beside us and my brother got a handout too -- but there is nothing official in place and how do you divide a house between 2 people> at present both of us still live at home because our mother needs full time care. But what if i want to move and need €? I can foresee big arguments and tension as my sister is not the easiest person to deal with and i am sure my other siblings will be poking their noses in for anything going. It's a worry and i am pissed off that my parents won't bother sorting it out.

I can only imagine what it's like when there is big money and assets going.

It's probably best you speak to your parents about it tbh

Shergar6

ThrillCosby wrote: »

It's probably best you speak to your parents about it tbh

You're right but it's just very difficult at the moment as we are all strung out worrying about/looking after our mother (some more than others) - i just don't think i have the energy to deal with all that will drama - It sucks but my parents were never proactive about finances and things of that nature. It's frustrating and part of me feels bad for even thinking about it, but there's also reality and not something we can avoid. It's coming, probably sooner rather than later.

But yeah, any of you parents - please sort things out for when you are gone.

ThrillCosby

Shergar6 wrote: »

You're right but it's just very difficult at the moment as we are all strung out worrying about/looking after our mother (some more than others) - i just don't think i have the energy to deal with all that will drama - It sucks but my parents were never proactive about finances and things of that nature. It's frustrating and part of me feels bad for even thinking about it, but there's also reality and not something we can avoid. It's coming, probably sooner rather than later.

But yeah, any of you parents - please sort things out for when you are gone.

Maybe research any tax implications of not having a will, and bring the subject up that way.

smurfjed

The family home is likely going to be left between me and my sister because my eldest sister got the plot of land beside us and my brother got a handout too -- but there is nothing official in place and how do you divide a house between 2 people>

You really have to sort this out for everyones sake, if it stays like this and your sister/brother decide that the house should be split 4 ways, there is nothing that you can do to stop them.
As for splitting it in two, you either sell it completely and split the money or one of you buys the other half from the other.

Capt'n Midnight

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Jennens

William Jennens (possibly Jennings) (1701–1798), also known as William the Miser, William the Rich, and The Miser of Acton, was a reclusive financier who lived at Acton Place in the village of Acton, Suffolk, England. He was described as the "richest commoner in England" when he died unmarried and intestate with a fortune estimated at £2 million, worth in excess of £230 million at 2015 rates, which became the subject of legal wrangles (Jennens vs Jennens) in the Court of Chancery for well over a century until the entire estate had been swallowed by lawyers' fees.

smurfjed

At a guess she wants 25% of the valuation. Would she settle for 25% of the nett proceeds after fees ? Would she pay for 25% of maintenance and property tax ?

She will settle for 25% of the net proceeds, however as the house is being sold to another sibling she is setting the value rather than accepting the two estate agents estimates. But WTF, the additional 1250 euro that she will get just isn't worth the fight.

Capt'n Midnight

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

And he took this out on his own daughter, by constant snide remarks and a complete refusal to help her out with anything to do the house. Its baffling as the family aren't short of a bob or two either

Not baffling at all.

People with money don't have to be nice. They have money so they don't need to be in anyone's good books. They don't need to do favours because they don't need any back. Reciprocal altruism can be rare when "I'm all right Jack".