Passport name change by deed poll

Ctljmk3

My daughter changed her name but deed poll in december 2015. We sent off her passport form and deed poll information . I received a phone call yesterday to say I need to prove the use of her new name for two years. Name has only been changed for five months so I can't. They also told me the deed poll document mean nothing to passport office 😡😡😡😡. How can the passport office refuse a legal document ??!!!! They'll except a marriage certificate issued from the church but don't accept deed poll issued by the the highest court in the land!! Can anyone help and advise me where to turn. We have flights booked in her new name. no where on website or forms does it state if name changed by deed poll proff of name useage must be shown. HELP PLEASE. Thank you

VincePP

There's a very good reason for this as a passport is the ultimate item of identification.

Imagine if a sex offender or murderer just paid €100, changed their name and got a new passport - you'd be rightly up in arms.

Changing name by deed poll is very easy, but getting the ultimate id just cannot be made easy.

Hence you can either have deed poll certificate with passport and travel & buy travel tickets under the old name, or I think you can have both names included in a 3 year passport under special request - write/email in to passport office and ask. Don't ring expecting the person at the end of the line to have the answer as its not something that crops up everyday.

I for one am very happy there is a two year proof of use clause.


Aa for the ridiculous statement that they accept a marriage cert from a church - maybe find out what you are talking about. In a church wedding you have two ceremonies happening together, the church wedding and the legal civil wedding. The cert given is an instrument of the state

Ctljmk3

Thank you VincePP. I appreciate what you're saying. Name change by marriage can de done immediately is my point by both male and female. We double barrelled our Daughter surname. Flights are already booked in double barrelled surname. Nowhere does it declare the waiting period was also my point. But thank you for reply

VincePP

https://www.dfa.ie/passports-citizenship/top-passport-questions/documents-for-passport-in-new-name/

That was the first search result on Google.

Chocolate girl

No experience of deed poll but had same when wanted to change back to my original surname after divorce. Had to wait 2 years even though when I got married I could change straight away. It wasn't as if I'd never had in my own name. Could you contact airline and try explain situation?

Ctljmk3

I think your missing my point. Was under the impression that deed poll was a legal binding document issued by the high court. We're not talking about birth cert say name is Mary but alway went by Marion so I want passport to reflect that. That is what is referred to on that link. I just think it's wrong that it's not clearly stated that passports office do not accept deed poll forms.

Speedwell

Isn't that an effective overseas travel ban for two years after you change your name by deed poll?

VincePP

Ctljmk3 wrote: »

I think your missing my point. Was under the impression that deed poll was a legal binding document issued by the high court. We're not talking about birth cert say name is Mary but alway went by Marion so I want passport to reflect that. That is what is referred to on that link. I just think it's wrong that it's not clearly stated that passports office do not accept deed poll forms.

The link above is very clear about the 2 year documents.

Look, you didn't check into it fully and you are searching to find an answer to deflect blame somewhere else.

We all make mistakes. The world won't end and the current passport is valid. That you booked flights before getting the passport is not anyone else's fault.

Fred Swanson

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Marcusm

Ctljmk3 wrote: »

I think your missing my point. Was under the impression that deed poll was a legal binding document issued by the high court. We're not talking about birth cert say name is Mary but alway went by Marion so I want passport to reflect that. That is what is referred to on that link. I just think it's wrong that it's not clearly stated that passports office do not accept deed poll forms.

There is no document ISSUED by the High Court; you have simply enrolled your deed poll there. They have not performed any checks or verifications of it. As regards whether it is justifiable or susceptible to a legal challenge, hope Fred is going to fund it!

Fred Swanson

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GM228

Ctljmk3 wrote: »

I think your missing my point. Was under the impression that deed poll was a legal binding document issued by the high court.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a deed poll simply a declaration of your "intention" to change the name you are commonly known as?

The two year proof of use is required by law.

Fred Swanson

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mansize

The airline will allow a name change (to match that off the passport) just contact them.

mansize

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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This isn't the UK, you might as well cite French law

Fred Swanson

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GM228

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The 2 year thing is an arbitrary rule made up by civil servants that has no backing from the passport acts or any SI.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

But there is no actual Irish law on the subject.

There is no act or SI that supports the actions of the passport office.

That's actually incorrect.

The law allows someone be issued with a new passport for use with their spouses surname with no proof of previous use, however any other name change legally requires proof of at least two years use prior to the passport application.

If there isn't proof the passport office may issue a new passport with birth cert/marriage name as an observation, but are not required to.

Fred Swanson

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Marcusm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Fred Swanson wrote: »

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There does not need to be a piece of black letter law covering every aspect of the administration of government. They need to have justification for the approach they have taken, they need to publicise it and they need to implement it fairly. The second two seem to have been dealt with. Thinking again on my comment last night, surely this is a matter for the Ombudsman as to whether they have a justification for their approach rather than for a High Court challenge.

Fred Swanson

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Marcusm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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That seems absolutely correct, there is no grounds for discriminating aganst you. Requiring 2 years of usage for non marital situations is inconvenient in the current environment where people travel more frequently. I suspect the process was established in a different environment with probably very good reason - to counter fraudsters.

GM228

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Have you a SI or an act that supports that?

Yes it's covered under S10 of The Passports Act 2010.

In relation to to the marriage name for men vs women it's clearly stated it applies to both, most likely they were unaccustomed to men taking their wives surname!

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/act/4/section/10/enacted/en/html#sec10

10

(2) Subject to this Act, the Minister may, if so requested by an applicant for a passport who is or was married, issue a passport to him or her in his or her name that incorporates the surname of his or her spouse or former spouse, as the case may be, in place of, or in addition to, the surname of the applicant.

(3) The Minister shall, if an applicant for a passport applies to have a passport issued to him or her in a name (in this section referred to as “the new name”) other than the one referred to in subsection (1) or (2) or, if appropriate, the name entered in the passport last previously issued to him or her, require the applicant to produce to the Minister such evidence as appears to him or her to be satisfactory of the use by the applicant of the new name before a passport may be issued to the applicant in that name.

(4) If an applicant for a passport in the circumstances referred to in subsection (3) produces evidence to the satisfaction of the Minister of the use by him or her of the new name for a period of not less than 2 years prior to the date of the application, the Minister may, subject to this Act, issue a passport to the applicant in that name.

5) If an applicant for a passport in the circumstances referred to in subsection (3) does not produce evidence to the satisfaction of the Minister of the use by him or her of the new name for a period of not less than 2 years prior to the date of the application, the Minister may, subject to this Act, issue a passport to the applicant in that name and enter the name of the applicant referred to in subsection (1) or (2) or, if appropriate, that entered in the passport last previously issued to him or her as an observation in the passport and that entry shall remain there for a period of not less than 2 years.

CelticRambler

Marcusm wrote: »

Requiring 2 years of usage for non marital situations is inconvenient in the current environment where people travel more frequently. I suspect the process was established in a different environment with probably very good reason - to counter fraudsters.

Or to look at it another way: to counter fraudsters in the current environment, where people travel more frequently*, requiring 2 years of usage for non marital situations is probably very good reason[ing].

* and where travelling to, and setting up home in another EU country, is so easy

Nomis21

Just take the deed poll with you when you check in for your flight with your new name.

L1011

Nomis21 wrote: »

Just take the deed poll with you when you check in for your flight with your new name.

Very unlikely to be effective. Tickets have to match travel documents (passport or whatever else if travelling domestic/UK non-Ryanair).

Pat Mustard

Ctljmk3 wrote: »

We have flights booked in her new name. no where on website or forms does it state if name changed by deed poll proff of name useage must be shown. HELP PLEASE. Thank you

I'm not familiar with Passport Office procedure except that I know that with the Euros this year, the PP Office is under savage pressure. If you want to get a problem fixed quickly, you should bear that in mind.

It is possible to arrange name changes on tickets, if the name on the ticket does not coincide with that on the passport.

If you are under pressure with the date of the flight at this stage, maybe consider sorting the name on the passport out afterwards.

Fred Swanson

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vector

The term "deed poll" is being used incorrectly by some posters.

What happens in Ireland is you sign a deed poll in front of a witness (anyone over the age of 18, who is not related to you, and who does not live at your address). A Commissioner for Oaths then witnesses an Affidavit from that person wherein they confirm that they (the witness) did indeed witness you sign the deed poll.

Technically that is a "deed poll" i.e. 2x documents, however in reality you then need to "enroll" that in the High Court office (in Dublin) and they give you a more official looking document confirming that you have "enrolled" it.

You need that High Court document for the Driving Licence Service (they will not accept a non-enrolled deed poll) you also need that High Court document for the Passport Service.

These days hardly anyone will accept a non enrolled deed poll.

GM228

vector wrote: »

The term "deed poll" is being used incorrectly by some posters.

What happens in Ireland is you sign a deed poll in front of a witness (anyone over the age of 18, who is not related to you, and who does not live at your address). A Commissioner for Oaths then witnesses an Affidavit from that person wherein they confirm that they (the witness) did indeed witness you sign the deed poll.

Technically that is a "deed poll" i.e. 2x documents, however in reality you then need to "enroll" that in the High Court office (in Dublin) and they give you a more official looking document confirming that you have "enrolled" it.

You need that High Court document for the Driving Licence Service (they will not accept a non-enrolled deed poll) you also need that High Court document for the Passport Service.

These days hardly anyone will accept a non enrolled deed poll.

You don't need a non enrolled deed poll for passport etc, the only difference is an enrolled deed poll puts the new name on the public register. An enrolled deed poll has no greater effect than a non enrolled one.

http://www.courts.ie/offices.nsf/0/B43B2E45023B633B802573D10045B030?OpenDocument

Procedure for executing a deed poll

You do not need to instruct a solicitor or attend the High Court to execute a deed poll and you are not required to lodge (or ‘enrol’) the document in the Central Office of the High Court.

Execution of a deed poll is a relatively simple process. The person declares to have given up a former name and adopted a new name for all purposes. The deed must be printed on Deed Paper (which is available from legal stationers), signed in the former name and the new name and in the presence of a witness.

The witness must be 18 years or over, must sign the deed poll as witness and must swear an affidavit (called an ‘affidavit of attesting witness’) before a solicitor or commissioner for oaths stating that they witnessed the signing of the deed poll.

You may use our template documents of a deed poll and of an affidavit of attesting witness to execute your own deed poll.

These documents can then be used with your birth certificate and should be acceptable for most administrative procedures, thus providing an easy and inexpensive solution for most of the difficulties encountered on changing your name.

Other than a minimal fee for swearing the affidavit before the solicitor or commissioner for oaths, there is no further fee involved.

NOTE: if you are a non EU national, you will require the permission of the Minister for Justice & Equality under section 9 of the Aliens Act 1935 to change your name.

Additional procedure for enrolling the deed

There is norequirement to enrol a deed poll in order to change your name. A deed poll enrolled in the Central Office of the High Court has no greater effect than a deed poll which has not been enrolled. The enrolment of a deed poll in the CentralOffice is a facility which the Registrar of the High Court provides so that you may place your change of name on a publicly accessible record.

This has the effect of putting the wider population on notice that you have decided to change your name.

In addition, enrolling the deed poll means that a record of the change of name is preserved for future identification and a certified copy of the original enrolled deed poll can be obtained if required.

To enrol a deed poll in the High Court, in addition to a deed poll executed correctly in the manner set out above, the following criteria apply:

(i) You must provide evidence of your previous name (e.g. a birth certificate, marriage certificate, previous name change by deed poll, Certificate of Naturalisation).

(ii) If you are a non-EU national, you must produce a licence to change name by deed poll, issued by the Minister for Justice & Equality pursuant to the section 9 of the Aliens Act 1935.

vector

The Courts Service lost interest a few years ago in enrolling deed polls, perhaps there is little profit in it. That is reflected by their website where they say that enrolling a deed poll has no magical effect.

But in reality, the passport service and the driving licence service will only act on enrolled deed polls.

Like many other things there is a difference between what websites say and what the reality is on the ground.

It is advisable to enroll a deedpoll.

GM228

vector wrote: »

The Courts Service lost interest a few years ago in enrolling deed polls, perhaps there is little profit in it. That is reflected by their website where they say that enrolling a deed poll has no magical effect.

But in reality, the passport service and the driving licence service will only act on enrolled deed polls.

Like many other things there is a difference between what websites say and what the reality is on the ground.

It is advisable to enroll a deedpoll.

No the passport require 2 years proof of use of the name you are now known by if different to your birth cert, they don't require any proof of the actual name change etc.

Driving license is different, they will change name immediately with enrolled deed poll, but without enrolled deed poll they apply the same rules as the passport office.

Robotbikeboy

I've changed my second name by deed poll, and have gone on to use said deed poll (which I did enroll on the register - quite the hassle to do by the way) to change the rest of my details with the bank, accounts, bills, revenue, social services and drivers license.

I've been told by the Passport Office that a name change is the same as an identity change - which baffles me some, surely they are the same thing?

Anyway, am I not allowed to change my name then until I have two years of documented usage? How do I travel then, after all, it is illegal to travel on a passport that isn't in your name? Am I stuck in Ireland then until I'm able to change this?

If I travel on this passport, how do I travel with my newly arrived daughter, who has her birth registered under the new second name, and now where - according to our passports, we all have different second names? How do I prove she is my daughter to authorities overseas when our names on our passports don't match, and none of my other identity documentation matches my passport?

Peregrinus

Robotbikeboy wrote: »

I've changed my second name by deed poll, and have gone on to use said deed poll (which I did enroll on the register - quite the hassle to do by the way) to change the rest of my details with the bank, accounts, bills, revenue, social services and drivers license.

I've been told by the Passport Office that a name change is the same as an identity change - which baffles me some, surely they are the same thing?

Anyway, am I not allowed to change my name then until I have two years of documented usage? How do I travel then, after all, it is illegal to travel on a passport that isn't in your name? Am I stuck in Ireland then until I'm able to change this?

It's perfectly legal to have two, or indeed more, names, and it's quite common. A married woman may continue to use her maiden name professionally, for example, while adopting her husband's name for social purposes. Or someone may use an English name in some contexts, and an equivalent Irish name in others.

So it's a mistake to think that what you now have is a passport that "isn't in your name". It is in your name, or at any rate in one of your names.

Robotbikeboy wrote: »

If I travel on this passport, how do I travel with my newly arrived daughter, who has her birth registered under the new second name, and now where - according to our passports, we all have different second names? How do I prove she is my daughter to authorities overseas when our names on our passports don't match, and none of my other identity documentation matches my passport?

You bring a copy of the child's birth cert (as many married women who do not change their names have to do routinely) plus a copy of the deed poll making the link between your name as it appears on the birth cert and your name as it appears in your passport.

Mr. Incognito

Good morning

From experience there is no point arguing with Civil Servants- They dont care and they are incapable of anything approaching independent thought and will slavishly follow the rules.

Contact the Minister with the Deed Poll and your Marriage Cert and ask him to email the Passport Office

https://www.finegael.ie/our-people/ministers/cork-south-central/simon-coveney/