Kerosene spill

yellowbelly

I had a small leak of kerosene around my tank, it has leaked on to stones around the tank should I remove the stones, and replace.

What is best way to deal with a small leak myself.. should I use cat litter to absorb the oil any suggestions please.

jimf

depends on what you call a small leak maybe rake back the stones to expose the ground underneath and you will have a better idea of how much saturation has taken place

usually a small amount of kero spilled outdoors evaporates after a short while and the smell clears up rather quickly

readytosnap

I know this is an old thread but we have had a leak (drip) for god knows how long and the smell of kerosene in one bedroom of the house absolutely reeks and actually smells like it is getting stronger, the leak has seeped either under the house there or the wall has absorbed it up, no visible sign inside the house and there is no smell from the boiler (where the leak originated) anybody any idea how to get rid of the smell?, I don't think we can just wash around the area. The room is not used by any of us but would like to get rid of the stench if possible, Any ideas please.

Wearb

Indoor boiler?
Must have been quite a leak. Small amounts usually dissipate after a while.
Oftec.org have some products on their site. I haven't used them so can't vouch for them.

If room isn't used, open windows and keep door closed. Maybe a dehumidifier might help, but that's only a guess.

Maybe someone else will have a better suggestion, but I have never come across anything better than time, or (hopefully not) dig.

yellowbelly

Hi think you really should have that investigated I had to have the spill removed by an oil spiill company check out your house insurance that you are covered think it can be dangerous if gets under the foundations .. try cat litter to absorb the smell.... but I think you will have to get a professional in.

jimf

yellowbelly wrote: »

Hi think you really should have that investigated I had to have the spill removed by an oil spiill company check out your house insurance that you are covered think it can be dangerous if gets under the foundations .. try cat litter to absorb the smell.... but I think you will have to get a professional in.

did the insurance company involve the epa in your clean up

yellowbelly

No epa not involved at all the spill company dealt with it..

jimf

good for u then

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

good for u then

I thought they were obliged under law to contact EPA ???
It used to be like that when I was "in the know".

yellowbelly

As far as I know I don't think so maybe depends on the size of the spill mine was a small enough spill 300 litres .

Wearb

yellowbelly wrote: »

As far as I know I don't think so maybe depends on the size of the spill mine was a small enough spill 300 litres .

That would be considered a large spill.
I cant remember the figures, but it was notification at something like 10 litres or maybe 10 gallons. In any case it wasn't a very large amount. There maybe some lads here still in the industry that would have the correct figures, though i expect that the amount now revolves around the risk to the environment ie soil, water, gullys, etc.

yellowbelly

Went to an accredited oil spill company and was done through house insurance but.as far as I know the epa was not involved

funnyname

Hi

I'm gonna piggyback this thread as it is similar to what I experienced so no point starting a new one.

Internal oil boiler to the rear of the house. house in a rural area on a 1/2 acre site.

Small smell of oil in the house, seemed strongest in the bathroom which is the other side of the boiler room. Got boiler serviced and checked for leaks, engineer fixed it all and it was grand after that. He did however spot that the pipe from the tank which is about 5m from the outside of the boiler room, (with about an other 2 meters internal to the boiler) was looking worse for wear and should be replaced.

He wanted a trench dug and footpath cut and then he'd come back to replace the pipe. So got that done and he was a bit delayed in coming back. in the meantime (just last week) there was a leak (sod's law) somewhere outside and maybe between 100 and 200 litres were lost. All fixed up now but don't know what to do next. Plumber said it would naturally go and not be a danger to the house.

Where we could see the kerosene seeping up through the trench (which was about a foot away parallel from the path of the old pipe) was about 2 metres long and about a metre from the tank so about 2 metres from the house.

Any ideas what to do next, also is there anything I could put down on the soil between the house and tank that would draw up the kerosene so that I could judge how close it actually got to the foundations as that's the last thing I want to happen.

Just don't want to be out of the house for too long if there's a major clean up operation.

yellowbelly

Hi not sure if I can be of much help seemingly you don't want the kerosene to get near the foundations maybe look for advice from an oil spill company dig near the foundations and see you can smell oil. My spill was away from the house but oil can spread and my only option was to get it dug out.. Good luck.

funnyname

yellowbelly wrote: »

Hi not sure if I can be of much help seemingly you don't want the kerosene to get near the foundations maybe look for advice from an oil spill company dig near the foundations and see you can smell oil. My spill was away from the house but oil can spread and my only option was to get it dug out.. Good luck.

Thanks, how long did the process take for you?

yellowbelly

funnyname wrote: »

Thanks, how long did the process take for you?

I think about two weeks to three weeks. when they dig it out they send samples away for testing they have to tested so the soil can be disposed of the delay can be getting the lab results back they check the levels of kerosene in the soil and when they are within certain range they can start reinstatement but I was lucky the oil was not near my foundations I think if that was the case it might take longer. I would not delay to long on making a decision on what way to do .

funnyname

yellowbelly wrote: »

I think about two weeks to three weeks. when they dig it out they send samples away for testing they have to tested so the soil can be disposed of the delay can be getting the lab results back they check the levels of kerosene in the soil and when they are within certain range they can start reinstatement but I was lucky the oil was not near my foundations I think if that was the case it might take longer. I would not delay to long on making a decision on what way to do .

Does it need to be reported to the EPA, is it mandatory?

yellowbelly

funnyname wrote: »

Does it need to be reported to the EPA, is it mandatory?

I didn't have my spill reported to the epa but I was not near any rivers and streams and the oil spill company dealt with the spill but if you contact an oil spill company I am sure they would be able to give you advice.

funnyname

So got the experts in, going through process at the mo, very slow. Very high water table so oil never got a a chance to disperse. Got oil remediation company down from Dundalk, just finished their 2nd more extensive tests. Hopefully have a report in the next couple of weeks.

Most likely outcome I've been told is house will need to be gutted, some soil removed and some treated as they can't remove it all as that would undermine the structure of the house.

yellowbelly wrote: »

I didn't have my spill reported to the epa but I was not near any rivers and streams and the oil spill company dealt with the spill but if you contact an oil spill company I am sure they would be able to give you advice.

Wearb

funnyname wrote: »

So got the experts in, going through process at the mo, very slow. Very high water table so oil never got a a chance to disperse. Got oil remediation company down from Dundalk, just finished their 2nd more extensive tests. Hopefully have a report in the next couple of weeks.

Most likely outcome I've been told is house will need to be gutted, some soil removed and some treated as they can't remove it all as that would undermine the structure of the house.

Thanks for the update. It may help people to be more proactive in looking after their oil storage, supply and boiler.

funnyname

Thinking of moving boiler outside, any ideas for placement, added benefit would be everything external and can repurpose the "boilerhouse" room.

Wearb wrote: »

Thanks for the update. It may help people to be more proactive in looking after their oil storage, supply and boiler.

Wearb

funnyname wrote: »

Thinking of moving boiler outside, any ideas for placement, added benefit would be everything external and can repurpose the "boilerhouse" room.

Keep it near the existing pipe work. Shortest possible pipework run outside. Maybe build a small well insulated boiler house against an existing house wall.

How old is existing boiler?

funnyname

Sorry for delay but here's a schematic of the house layout, the oil tank is the pale blue dot at the top left and the boiler is the dark blue square. So I was thinking of getting an external boiler (one is available for free, it is in very good working condition) and putting it outside the house at the gable end of the house, so moving it about 5m at most. The existing boiler is about 15 to 20 years old.

Tom44

FREE is not the important issue, high efficiency condensing "A" rated is.

You'll be the one paying the fuel bills for the next 20 years.
Firebird is a good make.
But I prefer Grant boilers.
Both are Irish.
Make sure boiler is the appropriate size for the house.

funnyname

I'm looking into this myself but in the meantime does anyone know if the the insurance company max payout wrt the claim for the oil spill is the max amount of the buildings cover on the policy?

I ask as the amount of work in the initial investigations is quite high and the cost of the initial clean up is higher again and if anything else crops up that hasn't been budgeted for then this total cost will end up being higher than sum insured on the policy. Just want to make sure we know of potential costs to ourselves before going into the next phase of work.

funnyname

Update on the ongoing process - nearly 2 years after it began.

Insurance company pushed for a 2nd opinion as they believed the costs were getting out of hand. I did a lot of research and ringing around and got a new company in to do additional tests.

Everyone was eventually happy with their report and methodology for the remediation of the oil spill.

It was a very long drawn process delayed by the original oil remediation company threatening to sue as they believed they had the contract to carry out the remediation and the insurance company dragging their heels.

The bioremediation process began last month and will continue for another 5 months and then once it's been certified as cleaned up then the house can be renovated so that it's habitable again.

It's been a right pain in the hoop and I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

jtown

How did it end up.

We after having a major oil leak and looking at various site looks like we in for a long road.

DrPhilG

jtown wrote: »

How did it end up.

We after having a major oil leak and looking at various site looks like we in for a long road.

Any update jtown?

I've had a tank leak in the last week or so. I'm guessing maybe 100L max. Has run down the back of my property and into an area of rough land between myself and the neighbour.

First port of call is what, call insurance or call remediation company?

Wearb

DrPhilG wrote: »

Any update jtown?

I've had a tank leak in the last week or so. I'm guessing maybe 100L max. Has run down the back of my property and into an area of rough land between myself and the neighbour.

First port of call is what, call insurance or call remediation company?

Ideally call your local authority environmental section. They'll advise what to do. Also inform your insurers.

What caused your leak?

DrPhilG

Wearb wrote: »

Ideally call your local authority environmental section. They'll advise what to do. Also inform your insurers.

What caused your leak?

Called the County Council, they're a bit confused. Awaiting a callback.

Crack in the tank caused the leak. Guy who replaced it says the old one was a crappy brand, plus it was single skin.

Replaced now with a bunded tank on a new concrete base.

givyjoe

Apologies for hijacking, but actually in process of buying a house at the mo that had an oil tank leak, Kerosene, didn't realise this was a big deal?! How much of a spill is something to worry about? No smell in the house, just in the immediate surrounds of the tank/the stoney area beside, which also has exposed electrical wiring.:eek: Clueless re: construction but now realising the earth/stoney area may need to be removed... or?

DrPhilG

I had no idea until I had a leak and then found this thread with people talking into the tens/hundreds of thousand!

Have since called the insurance company, they've assigned an assessor. Also called a remediation company who said they can call tomorrow for a survey.

Any recommendations on companies to use? I'm assuming like all industries there are chancers and cowboys.

I shouldn't be too bad, the leak has run down past the back of my garage but unlikely to seep into the founds simply because the ground slopes away from me.

Also my neighbour's house is a good 20 yards away from the spill area.

Pain in the hole regardless. Cost me £500 to replace the tank, plus €500 excess on my policy for whatever remediation is needed.

Wearb

DrPhilG wrote: »

Called the County Council, they're a bit confused. Awaiting a callback.

If it was the environmental section, I'd be very surprised at that response. I've had dealings with 3 different ones over the years and they are usually on this very quickly.

Crack in the tank caused the leak. Guy who replaced it says the old one was a crappy brand, plus it was single skin.

Replaced now with a bunded tank on a new concrete base

.

.

DrPhilG

Wearb wrote: »

If it was the environmental section, I'd be very surprised at that response. I've had dealings with 3 different ones over the years and they are usually on this very quickly.

It was the receptionist taking the call who was confused. She took my details and called back a while later to say that she had passed it to the environmental team.

What do the council usually do?

jimf

https://oilspillireland.ie/

might be of use to you

Wearb

DrPhilG wrote: »

It was the receptionist taking the call who was confused. She took my details and called back a while later to say that she had passed it to the environmental team.

What do the council usually do?

Some send out a staff member. One sent out someone from a private company that was on call to them.

I'm surprised that you weren't put through to the dept that you requested.
Perhaps limited staff there. Who knows. Perhaps contact a local councillor for an explanation.

CoBo55

DrPhilG wrote: »

Called the County Council, they're a bit confused. Awaiting a callback.

Crack in the tank caused the leak. Guy who replaced it says the old one was a crappy brand, plus it was single skin.

Replaced now with a bunded tank on a new concrete base.

What brand was it? I had a plumber here recently and he wasn't very impressed with the brand of oil tank I had, he recommended I run it empty and replace it, it's only a few years old and full to the neck. I had a small kero leak when getting work done in the vicinity of the tank during the summer, about 15 litres was leaked, I dug out about 3 barrows full of stinking soil before the smell was gone, horrible horrible stuff. I replaced the copper completely and a neighbour had a length of hydrodare so the copper oil line is inside the hydrodare.

CoBo55

givyjoe wrote: »

Apologies for hijacking, but actually in process of buying a house at the mo that had an oil tank leak, Kerosene, didn't realise this was a big deal?! How much of a spill is something to worry about? No smell in the house, just in the immediate surrounds of the tank/the stoney area beside, which also has exposed electrical wiring.:eek: Clueless re: construction but now realising the earth/stoney area may need to be removed... or?

Was it not picked up by the surveyor before you bought? It's a tricky one I could see your insurance company kicking up about it. Have you comitted to buying?

givyjoe

CoBo55 wrote: »

Was it not picked up by the surveyor before you bought? It's a tricky one I could see your insurance company kicking up about it. Have you comitted to buying?

Nope, surveyor didn't notice it. He did spot a wheelie bin full of kerosene. I went back to agent asking wtf was that about, agent says there was a leak they're sorting. The really concerning thing now is that we went back with a friend (electrician) and plumber on surveyors recommendation.. bin was empty, tank was open (no cap) and a fairly big stink of kerosene that wasnt there the first, or second time I viewed the property. Stones around the tank looked to be stained, with what I'm assuming is kerosene. Same tank there, no obvious signs of anything being fixed, definitely not that hot mess of wiring that's still there, leading back into house were the heating is controlled by a plug socket in the wall. Freaked out by this thread, though maybe this is the final straw to make me walk away. Haven't signed contracts, just had surveyor in and valuation.

Only reason I hadn't walked is there's a granny flat with obvious rental income. There is the leaky tank and dodgy wiring on heating setup outside, central heating with just a plug and no controls or timer, a fuse board located above a sink in the downstairs bathroom and electrical cabling partially exposed overground in the garden (heading to granny flat) that makes cutting the grass a life or death event. Unbelievably the surveyor only found that dodgy heating system set up. We found everything else.

We've been quoted 25-30k for fixing the above so we went back yesterday with a 20k request for reduction in selling price. These issues are nuts and down to some obviously terrible DIY/construction. Everything can be fixed and we have access to cheap materials and labor, but even if they agreed to a reduction of 20k, think we might still walk away. This literally looks like a tom hanks money pit at this stage.

Unbelievabably the vendors came back to us while we were the Highest bidders, looking for an extra 1k to go sale agreed. Mental carry on considering they must have known we'd find these defects.

Wearb

Have you considered contacting the EPA? You don't want to purchase if it means taking ownership of a huge clean-up.

givyjoe

Wearb wrote: »

Have you considered contacting the EPA? You don't want to purchase if it means taking ownership of a huge clean-up.

How much of a spill would constitute a huge clean up? Really hadn't appreciated this could be a big deal until today/this thread.

DrPhilG

CoBo55 wrote: »

What brand was it?

Platinum. Its only in 5 years or so and when we were taking it out there were 2 noticeable cracks at the top and one on the bottom which is where the leak was.

Replaced now with a Kingspan/Titan bunded tank.

Wearb

givyjoe wrote: »

How much of a spill would constitute a huge clean up? Really hadn't appreciated this could be a big deal until today/this thread.

I don't know the current recommendation. It's not very much. It comes down to the amount of damage it can cause. eg run off to wells or waterways. Getting into the foundation of a house. Impacting a neighbouring property.


Trouble is that it can disappear into soil and reappear when that soil becomes waterlogged. A few litres rarely causes much trouble, But in my experience, the amount spilled is always way understated.

dathi

givyjoe wrote: »

Only reason I hadn't walked is there's a granny flat with obvious rental income. There is the leaky tank and dodgy wiring on heating setup outside, central heating with just a plug and no controls or timer, a fuse board located above a sink in the downstairs bathroom and electrical cabling partially exposed overground in the garden (heading to granny flat) that makes cutting the grass a life or death event. Unbelievably the surveyor only found that dodgy heating system set up. We found everything

.

did you do a planning search on the granny flat to see if it has planning

CoBo55

givyjoe wrote: »

Nope, surveyor didn't notice it. He did spot a wheelie bin full of kerosene. I went back to agent asking wtf was that about, agent says there was a leak they're sorting. The really concerning thing now is that we went back with a friend (electrician) and plumber on surveyors recommendation.. bin was empty, tank was open (no cap) and a fairly big stink of kerosene that wasnt there the first, or second time I viewed the property. Stones around the tank looked to be stained, with what I'm assuming is kerosene. Same tank there, no obvious signs of anything being fixed, definitely not that hot mess of wiring that's still there, leading back into house were the heating is controlled by a plug socket in the wall. Freaked out by this thread, though maybe this is the final straw to make me walk away. Haven't signed contracts, just had surveyor in and valuation.

Only reason I hadn't walked is there's a granny flat with obvious rental income. There is the leaky tank and dodgy wiring on heating setup outside, central heating with just a plug and no controls or timer, a fuse board located above a sink in the downstairs bathroom and electrical cabling partially exposed overground in the garden (heading to granny flat) that makes cutting the grass a life or death event. Unbelievably the surveyor only found that dodgy heating system set up. We found everything else.

We've been quoted 25-30k for fixing the above so we went back yesterday with a 20k request for reduction in selling price. These issues are nuts and down to some obviously terrible DIY/construction. Everything can be fixed and we have access to cheap materials and labor, but even if they agreed to a reduction of 20k, think we might still walk away. This literally looks like a tom hanks money pit at this stage.

Unbelievabably the vendors came back to us while we were the Highest bidders, looking for an extra 1k to go sale agreed. Mental carry on considering they must have known we'd find these defects.

Speaking of Tom Hanks, run Forrest run..

CoBo55

DrPhilG wrote: »

Platinum. Its only in 5 years or so and when we were taking it out there were 2 noticeable cracks at the top and one on the bottom which is where the leak was.

Replaced now with a Kingspan/Titan bunded tank.

That's the one I have... Plumber recommended the Titan brand too. Another job for the to do list next year!!

givyjoe

dathi wrote: »

did you do a planning search on the granny flat to see if it has planning

It doesn't, we were already Aware of this. It's been there for 12 years though.

CoBo55

givyjoe wrote: »

It doesn't, we were already Aware of this. It's been there for 12 years though.

You'll need to apply for retention and hope no one objects, do you really need all this hassle?

givyjoe

CoBo55 wrote: »

You'll need to apply for retention and hope no one objects, do you really need all this hassle?

Is retention actually needed once it's been there over 7 years? That's the time limit for action to be taken. Retention is needed if you build without permission in between 0-7 years.. no?

https://www.retentionplanning.ie/7-year-rule

No one needs the hassle, but this is a particularly large granny flat will potentially provide a large rental income over a prolonged period. That's why we haven't walked away. Very few comparable properties in our price range have popped up in the last year. The spill is what will really tip it over the edge for us. We were looking for at least 20k off sale price to cover remedial works needed for dodgy DIY. They came back with 5. Works need to be done before we even put a lick of paint on. We'll likely be walking away once they refuse to meet us at this price. The cost of works I'd actually 25-30k and we're already 57k over the original asking. I know that seems mad, but even the surveyor noted it's potentially worth while carrying on due to the extra rental income. Everything can be fixed after all.

Wearb

Judging by the sound of things at that property, the flat will most likely need to be re-wired. Maybe re-plumbed.
This requirement might even extend to the house.
If you could get a builder that you might know to give it the once over, it might be worth all the other professionals put together. BUT most importantly you need to make sure that you are absolved of any responsibility for remedying that oil spill. That will be very difficult, as problems may not become apparent for many years.

CoBo55

givyjoe wrote: »

Is retention actually needed once it's been there over 7 years? That's the time limit for action to be taken. Retention is needed if you build without permission in between 0-7 years.. no?

https://www.retentionplanning.ie/7-year-rule

No one needs the hassle, but this is a particularly large granny flat will potentially provide a large rental income over a prolonged period. That's why we haven't walked away. Very few comparable properties in our price range have popped up in the last year. The spill is what will really tip it over the edge for us. We were looking for at least 20k off sale price to cover remedial works needed for dodgy DIY. They came back with 5. Works need to be done before we even put a lick of paint on. We'll likely be walking away once they refuse to meet us at this price. The cost of works I'd actually 25-30k and we're already 57k over the original asking. I know that seems mad, but even the surveyor noted it's potentially worth while carrying on due to the extra rental income. Everything can be fixed after all.

I sold a property that had a separate garage built without permission, the buyers solicitor spotted it during his searches, along with a third mortgage that no one knew about, luckily it was paid off.. The buyer had to apply for retention, the garage was as old as the house, almost 50.