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Mintos (P2P Lending Platform)

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    ID Finance are giving an extra half percent (17 -> 17.5%) on GEL loans until end of Oct, if anyone is interested.

    I do not buy GEL loans due to EUR/GEL ccy fluctuations. GEL dropped ~20% since April.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,567 ✭✭✭delta_bravo


    brianomc wrote: »
    I had 1 Mozipo in the 31-60 day zone which was bought back about 2 weeks into that zone. I now have 2 more sitting there. A few more in 16-30 which could go either way I guess.

    Out of interest, why are people not specifically always taking the buyback guarantee loans? The rate difference isn't huge and you have more peace of mind with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭brianomc


    Out of interest, why are people not specifically always taking the buyback guarantee loans? The rate difference isn't huge and you have more peace of mind with them.

    I'm only taking the buyback guaranteed ones. When I say the loans could go either way I just meant they might end up getting bought back or recover as loans.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭Squall Leonhart


    Does anybody have any advice on maximising returns?

    I only lend in euro because I'm not familiar with other currencies etc. Are there better returns available by branching out?

    I only invest with buyback guarantees, and current loans, primary market.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    Only go with buyback loans myself.
    What range of ANR % are yee lads getting? I am struggling to keep it near 12%.

    I have started investing in some PLN loans and had no issues yet. No late loans after about 3 months, so early days yet. Only picking short term loans at the moment.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭Squall Leonhart


    Only go with buyback loans myself.
    What range of ANR % are yee lads getting? I am struggling to keep it near 12%.

    I have started investing in some PLN loans and had no issues yet. No late loans after about 3 months, so early days yet. Only picking short term loans at the moment.

    I'm only at 8.5% at the moment, but this is going up daily. I recently transferred some funds to lend, so each day this figure is going up as payments come in. I think it'll reach about 10.5%.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    Only go with buyback loans myself.
    What range of ANR % are yee lads getting? I am struggling to keep it near 12%.

    I have started investing in some PLN loans and had no issues yet. No late loans after about 3 months, so early days yet. Only picking short term loans at the moment.

    If all your loans have buyback, why are you soo concerned about them being late? You will get your money after 60days anyway. OR is it that you worry some of these originators might be showing signs of being in distress?

    Just spitballing here, but I wonder what percentage of late/defaulted loans could an originator take before going to the wall? They presumably use new invested money to pay the buyback gaurantees on old defaulted loans, so I guess when that balance is tipped the game is up


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    Exactly as you say littlevillage, I would be worried given the issue with Eurocent earlier in the year. Given over 50% of my mozipo loans are now late, I hope it's just me and not a bigger problem.

    Interesting stat after doing some analysis this morning. Over 20% of my loans have finished prematurely. Surprisingly, most of those are longer term 12-24 months loans too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    I have a reasonable sized portfolio of loans in Mintos.

    Have not done any detailed breakdown of late loans as a percentage of open loans with any particular originator, until now. Will do a detailed analysis later if I have time.

    Just ran off a few quick queries

    I have 32 Mozipo loans, 22 of them are late to some degree. (69% late)
    I have 2 Eurocent loans, both are late to some degree. (100% late)

    Incidently, What was the issue with Eurocent earlier this year?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    Read about Eurocent. They appear to have applied for court protection but are still making some repayments to Mintos. Not looking good though :-(

    Went through the performance of my Loan originators from my current open loan book. The bottom three are ....


    Eurocent - 2 loans, both are late (100% late)
    Mozipo - 32 loans, 22 are late (69% late)
    Creditstar - 17 loans, 10 are late (59%)

    As a precaution, I have suspended new investments in all three of these originators.

    Also, If I am reading the query results correctly about 75% of my overall loans have ended prematurely (either by customer repaying early or buyback being triggered)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    Interesting to see that near 60% of your creditstar loans are late. Are they auto invest or did you pick them manually? Both cream and creditstar provider a "Previous Loans with the Same Loan Originator" indicator count. I try to pick loans where the borrower has had a minimum of 5 previous loans. It's pity the auto invest doesn't have a filter on this field.

    I rarely see any late creditstar loans myself, currently have about 125.

    Edit: I have noticed that a large volume of my creditstar loans finished prematurely, with the reason 'loan agreement extended'. I would presume that the current loan is "finished", so the previous loans indicator is increased. I guess if the borrower keeps extending their loans, it makes the indicator irrelevant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    To be fair I only have 17 loans with Creditstar so maybe not that reprsentative. All my loans are Auto Invest, all have Buyback Gaurantee and try to keep the term to within 15Months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭Kaskade


    I started doing a small bit of research on the loan originators, Mogo looks very profitable, balance sheet is not great partly due to a 2m loan to a related company.

    http://www.mogofinance.com/assets/as_mogo_interim_condensed_financial_information_for_the_6_month_period_ended_30_june_2017-4c20cd63c459e7421aa707fbadc6091265698af9380ddc449f2009ed8be2560d.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    Just received an email from Mintos informing that Mozipo are now offering loans from Denmark. My Mozipo loans are nearly all late now (80+ %)
    I had a quick look at Mozipo's current loan performance on the mintos.com statistics page. Between the personal loans and short term loans, 53-60% of Mozipo's loans are late / non-performing.

    A far cry from the "typical" figure of below 20% (Mozipo Romania) and 34% (Mozipo Denmark) that is claimed. I cannot see a performance figure for Mozipo Lithuania.

    Granted you have the buyback guarantee that should kick in after the 60 days but it is a concern due to the overall performance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭inel


    They don't mention Lithuania because this is basically where their main problem is..

    55% of their personal loans in Lithuania are late (48% in their 16-60 days range).

    Also, 67% of their short-term loans are late (but relatively not a large amount in euro)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    A colleague has been using Mintos for about a year now and was able to clarify how the buyback works. It looks like it kicks in a couple days after the 60 days have passed. You get the in principal, interest and late payment interest. The loans she has are mostly 1-2 years.

    Does anyone know how the interest works for payday/short-term loans? Loan less than 60 days.
    For example, if you have a payday loan with a loan term of 7 days. If it's late and the buyback kicks in after 60 days. Are you paid interest for the original term of 7 days, or is it calculated over the ~60 days of the buyback term?

    I have yet to have a buyback kick in myself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 protosByte


    I'm curious about the buyback guarantee - this means that your loans are basically risk free yes? But there's always a risk when you're investing money. It just seems to be too good to be true ... am I missing something?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    Lots of risks. Market place closes (website), loan originator closes, new laws/regulations etc. Definitely not risk free.


  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭brianomc


    All my late Mozipo loans got paid today. One was 2 days from hitting the 60 day late mark.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    Mine have dropped to ~70% late. I had a quick look at the Mozipo Lithuania stats on Mintos under "Loan Performance Details". The short term loans are still ~70% late but I see the late person loans have decreased to only 35% late. At a guess I would presume the buybacks are starting to kick in on the personal loans? I see another 20% are 31-60 days late, so the buyback will be triggered on those soon too.

    Worrying to see so many of the loans fall late. You have to wonder are Mozipo Lithuania struggling?
    brianomc wrote: »
    All my late Mozipo loans got paid today. One was 2 days from hitting the 60 day late mark.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    This is probably a more general p2p lending question. What is the most efficient way of extracting the interest only part of your investment while keeping the initial investment fully invested? I think it gets a little complicated because I use auto invest but perhaps I am over thinking the issue. For example 5,000 EUR fully invested from day 1 with a 12% ANR, giving 50 EUR interest per month.

    The way I look at it, the only way to extract the interest only is to set the minimum balance at the expected monthly interest return which is 50 EUR in my example. I would then need to extract the 50 EUR each month? Anything over 50 EUR gets auto invested.

    Would welcome any other suggestions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,510 ✭✭✭Wheety


    This is probably a more general p2p lending question. What is the most efficient way of extracting the interest only part of your investment while keeping the initial investment fully invested? I think it gets a little complicated because I use auto invest but perhaps I am over thinking the issue. For example 5,000 EUR fully invested from day 1 with a 12% ANR, giving 50 EUR interest per month.

    The way I look at it, the only way to extract the interest only is to set the minimum balance at the expected monthly interest return which is 50 EUR in my example. I would then need to extract the 50 EUR each month? Anything over 50 EUR gets auto invested.

    Would welcome any other suggestions.

    Well you need to pay tax on the profits. You do this at the end of the tax year/before end of October the following year.

    You'll do very well to get a consistent 12% without any defaults.

    I wouldn't use the auto invest personally. But that will involve some manual work. Do you need the €50 a month? Why not just let it compound?

    Sorry, that doesn't really answer your question but a couple of thoughts that came to mind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    Mr tax man will get what they deserve :mad::D May I ask why you do not use the auto invest tool? To keep my investment fully invested, I would have to be on the website each day to manually invest. No thank you! I let the auto invest tool do that for me. I want this investment to be as passive as I can make it.

    Also do not need to worry too much about defaults, as I only invest in loans with buyback. I do not see any reason to take loans without buyback given similar returns on loans with/without buyback. Although I am keeping an eye on the Mozipo Group as mentioned in my previous posts.

    There are a few reasons to extract a little and often. Mainly I do not want to increase my standing in p2p, will use the funds elsewhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,510 ✭✭✭Wheety


    I had it set up before and didn't like it. I can now look at previous payments to see how current a loan is. Some of the ones available are already behind and these will be included in your portfolio.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    As long as they are buyback, then it does not matter if they are included. But I agree that they should not be included. If the buyback kicks in, you get your principal back, the interest calculated over ~60 days and the late payment interest for those ~60 days.
    Wheety wrote: »
    I had it set up before and didn't like it. I can now look at previous payments to see how current a loan is. Some of the ones available are already behind and these will be included in your portfolio.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    Mogo now offering investments in GBP. With Brexit looming, not sure I would want to invest in GBP. No idea what way it'll swing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Shauny2010


    Mogo now offering investments in GBP. With Brexit looming, not sure I would want to invest in GBP. No idea what way it'll swing.

    Maybe for Uk investors? It would make sense for them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    Post is aimed at mainly eur investors, hence the keyword 'swing' relating to currency exchange.

    I am impressed Mintos continues to grow and expand its loan originators and currencies options.
    Shauny2010 wrote: »
    Maybe for Uk investors? It would make sense for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    Investing in foreign currencies can be tricky, cause you have to 2nd guess the currency markets and also have to pay currency exchange commision out of your profits. Your profits are quickly wiped out if the purchased currency takes a wobble against the Euro ( Georgian Lari ...I am looking at you :-[ ).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    Was looking on the Mintos website forum, there is going to be a further annoucement about Eurocent in the coming days. Eurocent is a useful test case (its a relatively small loan Originator on Mintos) to see exactly how Mintos would deal with an Originator going to the wall.

    Soo far it appears that Eurocent is still collecting the money from Current loans (and using this to pay off senior debtors) they have refused to pay anything more to Mintos Market place investors. If loans have defaulted, Eurocent is not honouring the Buyback Garantee....and its unclear who is going to go after the defaultors.


    Soo, all in all not a great situation.

    If one of the larger Originators like MOGO etc. went bust, Investors would lose heavily, and the high likelihood is that the whole Mintos marketplace would go under with everyone looking to cash out at the same time.


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