Kovalev v Ward Discussion thread

Andre 3000

Kovalev and Ward have signed a contract agreeing to fight later in the year. Venue and date yet to be confirmed but November 19th is being thrown around. Fantastic news and it's some testament to Andre Ward agreeing to this fight so soon.

Johner

How would people see it going? I think Ward wins a decision. I've a strong dislike for Kovalev though so maybe that's clouding my judgement but I just think Ward might be a little too slick for him.

walshb

Johner wrote: »

How would people see it going? I think Ward wins a decision. I've a strong dislike for Kovalev though so maybe that's clouding my judgement but I just think Ward might be a little too slick for him.

Slick is Ward's key to victory. In close, rugged and rough and stealing shots in close. If he stands off and expects to win I think he gets beaten. Big question is how Ward gets in close enough to do his best work, plus, what if Kovalev gives better on the inside? I think Kovalev could well give as good as he gets in close. Ward may find that up close and personal vs. Kovalev is every bit as dangerous as giving Kovalev space and distance. Kovalev's team should be working on their inside game, and Ward's team should be working on movement/defence and pot shotting steals.

For me it's Kovalev's to lose. He has size, power and beautiful punch technique. Can Ward take Kovalev's power should Ward fail to avoid it? I think he needs to be ultra slick and defensive. Problem being that this may take away from his offense, and see him spending more time worryiong about Kovalev's power

Neither man has faced this type of challenge. That's what is so intriguing and great here.

It could boil down to Kovalev not being near as bothered or concerend by Ward's power as Ward will be concerend and bothered by Kovalev's. This is what will allow the more relaxed and confident man to excel at his gameplan.

Andre 3000

Ward's ability to not get knocked down is the only doubt I've in my mind for the fight. Ward is too clever and too skillful to lose to any boxer on points once knockdowns are out of the equation... It's hard to see him not tasting the canvas once though as Kovalev's power is freakish. I'd love if Ward won, he gets awful stick from people which is completely undeserved. I'm also getting a little fed up of all the Eastern European lads with deadly power dominating.

walshb

Andre 3000 wrote: »

Ward's ability to not get knocked down is the only doubt I've in my mind for the fight. Ward is too clever and too skillful to lose to any boxer on points once knockdowns are out of the equation... .

Are you underestimamting Kovalev's boxing ability? He's an excellent balanced boxer. I think he can box with Ward all night if he wants.

Henno30

I favour Ward. He's very hard to hit. But after the Barrera fight I do wonder about his offensive capability. Slipping shots and back-pedalling won't be enough to beat Kovalev. He's going to have to put himself in harms way. Kovalev is fairly hittable given his style but he is fast and accurate. Physically dominating him is a world apart from physically dominating the likes of Carl Froch who swings like a rusty gate.

Andre 3000

walshb wrote: »

Are you underestimamting Kovalev's boxing ability? He's an excellent balanced boxer. I think he can box with Ward all night if he wants.

Not at all, Ward is just night and day ahead of any other boxer from 168-175 in terms of IQ and overall technical ability.

walshb

Andre 3000 wrote: »

Not at all, Ward is just night and day ahead of any other boxer from 168-175 in terms of IQ and overall technical ability.

But in this instance I don't think he is night and day ahead, and Kovalev's skills won't see him lose a clear decision. He's also a very competent boxer and tactician. Technically Kovalev for me is right up with Ward, and in terms of technique as regards delivering punches I think he is superior.

FTA69

Ward wins a stinker on a narrow points decision I think. Kovalev can box but he's not on the same level as Ward in the skills department and relies on other attributes to look impressive.

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

Ward wins a stinker on a narrow points decision I think. Kovalev can box but he's not on the same level as Ward in the skills department and relies on other attributes to look impressive.

Never really a fan of this skills department issue. What skills has Ward got that Kovakev doesn't have to a similar level. They both have skillsets, as well as strengths and weaknesses. Tactically maybe Ward is better, but up until now Kovakev has never had to use tactics and craftiness. His talents and his physical presence have seen him dominate. Ward uses the craftiness and ring IQ more.

boxer.fan

The move up in weight will be interesting. Kovalev is fairly mobile for a big fella but he has looked slightly vulnerable when put under pressure (the very few times we have seen him take a back step).
I reckon Ward might attempt to spoil the s**** out of Kovalev. Ward has shown that he can spoil better than most, even though he will be in with a bigger man. He should be faster to the punch. Leaning towards a points win for Ward but that may change in time. I'm gonna replay some of Wards fights as I've kinda forgotten how good he is he's been so inactive.

titan18

Kovalev wins imo, might not manage to knock Ward out as Ward is skilled enough to avoid taking too many clean shots, but he'll get hit enough. Not sure how Ward can generate enough offense against Kovalev to win this. He'll have to focus on defense and hope to spoil Kovalev, as if he goes too offensive, he'll get hit, and good luck at that point.

I just don't see how Ward deals with Kovalev's power. Outside of Golovkin, I think he's the most dangerous fighter in any weight class.

Diddley Squat

Henno30 wrote: »

the likes of Carl Froch who swings like a rusty gate.

Brilliant ....... I'm going to use that quote one day

nacho libre

At first i thought Ward would win this, but now i'm not so sure.
Ward usually has the strength advantage in his fights, i don't think that will be the case in this bout, so i forsee Ward being unable to spoil effectively against Kovavlev, i also don't think he has the power to deter Kovavlev coming forward, which means Ward, despite his superior skills, will likely be caught at some stage. I don't think Ward will be able to take it.

SHOVELLER

Tickets got. Looking forward to this mega fight in this new venue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNfZad1umCw

DylanAFC

Being shown on Sky Sports as well.

TheNap

A genuine super fight

Can't wait

walshb

I have kind of switched. Originally I went with Kovalev. I think Ward is just going to find a way. The key to victory is Ward's faster feet and hands. Whatever way he utilises this advantage he wins. He will need to be very careful that he doesn't get hurt or knocked out. Kovalev's hands are heavy enough to drop Ward.

TheNap

walshb wrote: »

I have kind of switched. Originally I went with Kovalev. I think Ward is just going to find a way. The key to victory is Ward's faster feet and hands. Whatever way he utilises this advantage he wins. He will need to be very careful that he doesn't get hurt or knocked out. Kovalev's hands are heavy enough to drop Ward.

I'm the complete opposite . I started with Ward but now i think Kovalev will win . I suppose thats the beauty of this fight a real pick em

Johner

I really think Ward will make Kovalev look ordinary.

walshb

Johner wrote: »

I really think Ward will make Kovalev look ordinary.

That wouldn't surprise me.

DylanAFC

Is the winner of this fight the P4P number 1?

walshb

DylanAFC wrote: »

Is the winner of this fight the P4P number 1?

Depends what organisation you reference. Ring have Kovalev at 2 and Ward at 4. Maybe they just swap depending on the result. Roman Gonzales is number 1, and will likely remain so no matter what happens in this fight.

walshb

Freddie Roach is fairly confident that Kovalev is too big and too strong for Ward.

boxer.fan

This is a great match-up. There isn't much between these fella's when they are side by side. Similar height, similar reach. Undefeated.
It will be great to see Ward in with a genuine opponent for the first time in ages. My head is telling me that Ward will win this, but i can hardly remember how good he really is. Kovalev has looked vulnerable on the back foot & I have a feeling Ward will find a way of putting him back.

i hope it turns out to be very competitive

walshb

Johner wrote: »

I really think Ward will make Kovalev look ordinary.

Interesting comment. Ordinary in a close fight, or ordinary in a clear cut win? Will Ward look to be the real deal, and Kovalev look ordinary?

Johner

walshb wrote: »

Interesting comment. Ordinary in a close fight, or ordinary in a clear cut win? Will Ward look to be the real deal, and Kovalev look ordinary?

I just think Ward is the much superior boxer, too slick and too clever for SK. Kovalev has never been in with someone as good as Ward. I don't actually think Kovalev has fought anyone of real note. His biggest win is a UD over a near 50 year old Hopkins. This is obviously Ward's toughest test as well and Kovalev might be too big and strong but I just don't see that happening. I can see why people think that Ward won't be able to spoil and rough him up on the inside. I don't think it will be a classic I just think Ward will really frustrate Kovalev and win a UD. I'll be having a nice wedge on Ward to win.

walshb

Johner, no doubt Ward is SKs toughest test, but you could say the same for SK being Ward's toughest test. SK destroyed a very capable and strong Pascal. No way is an old veteran spoiler, Hopkins, SKs biggest win. Maybe in terms of name recognition, but not at all in terms of opposition quality.

I think a key area may be the clinch. Ward may find that SK us a whole lot stronger and more durable than anything he's ever faced. This fight is mid range and it's Kovalev's to lose...

HigginsJ

This is such an interesting fight. I think Ward has the skills to win and will prevail in the end but would love to see Kovalev KO him as he is just such an exciting fighter to watch.

DylanAFC

Next Saturday. Get hyped son.

TheNap

I thought Ward from the start but now im think Kov .

Just dont see Ward keeping him at bay for 12 rounds.

Eventually he will get inside and 1 punch from him can change the fight.

walshb

TheNap wrote: »

Just dont see Ward keeping him at bay for 12 rounds.

Good point. Kovalev has a power and reach advantage. Ward needs to make this a dirty inside fight, but to get in he may see himself getting hurt, plus, Kovalev can make the necessary adjustments to counter this, as well as fight rough and tough up close. I think Kovalev has more boxing ways to win this....

boxer.fan

walshb wrote: »

Good point. Kovalev has a power and reach advantage. Ward needs to make this a dirty inside fight, but to get in he may see himself getting hurt, plus, Kovalev can make the necessary adjustments to counter this, as well as fight rough and tough up close. I think Kovalev has more boxing ways to win this....

I have given this fight a lot of thought since it was first announced. Kovalev has shown some vulnerability when he has been on the back foot in some of his fights, although we haven't seen him take a back step that much. I think Ward will definitely put him on the back foot & then we will see what Kovalev's chin is made of. If the rumours are correct that GGG had him on shaky legs then I would be concerned for Sergey. I'm not exactly saying that Ward will get the stoppage, but rather that he will keep Kovalev outside his comfort zone. Looking forward to it.

walshb

boxer.fan wrote: »

I have given this fight a lot of thought since it was first announced. Kovalev has shown some vulnerability when he has been on the back foot in some of his fights, although we haven't seen him take a back step that much. I think Ward will definitely put him on the back foot & then we will see what Kovalev's chin is made of. If the rumours are correct that GGG had him on shaky legs then I would be concerned for Sergey. I'm not exactly saying that Ward will get the stoppage, but rather that he will keep Kovalev outside his comfort zone. Looking forward to it.

Funny, I feel that the big issue for Ward will be that he won't have the strength or power to move Sergey back. Ward just is not a hitter no matter what way you look at it. Ward will try to close distance and smother Sergey. That's his key to victory. Ward's lead right hand may be his best points scoring weapon. Other than this he has to make it close and rugged.

TheNap

I'm hoping for a Ward win in an exciting fight .

Realises LHW isnt for him . Announces in the ring that he is moving back down and challenges GGG to move up weight to fight him.

Here's hoping.

Burial.

Such a hard fight to call. I still fancy Ward as he just has too many tools in his arsenal and he always finds a way. If my mind stays like that for the rest of the week I will be putting some handy money on Ward by decision. Kovalev's boxing ability is being massively overlooked by most from what I have read on other sites though. They just expect him to bludgeon him with one shot and that'll be it...I guess there's a small chance of that but I see this as a battle of who's jab is better. I saw Ward was 5/1 to get off the canvas and still win and I think that might be a sound bet.

Some nice videos are out about the fight. Have yet to watch the road to but the "my fight" was a very nice watch. And Lee Wylie's analysis is always gold.

walshb

Not to put a dampner on this but could this fight be a spectacle stinker? I am hoping for a high octane skilled fight. Doesn't have to be a tear up. Just skilled and clean and clearly fought. Similar to Groves-DeGale from a few years ago.

TheNap

walshb wrote: »

Not to put a dampner on this but could this fight be a spectacle stinker? I am hoping for a high octane skilled fight. Doesn't have to be a tear up. Just skilled and clean and clearly fought. Similar to Groves-DeGale from a few years ago.

Ward will have to let his hands go to keep SK off him though.

walshb

TheNap wrote: »

Ward will have to let his hands go to keep SK off him though.

Indeed. And he will need spite behind them. If he cannot do this then his best option is to fight in a spoiling/awkward/dirty fashion. Maybe the key is for Ward to "fight" at a very high pace. Constantly in and out and harassing SK with punches and feints and moves and ruggedness. Never allowing SK to establish a pattern.

Morrison J

Ward will play spoiler for sure. Either get right in at close range and make it ugly or stay at range. If he goes mid range and has a tear up it plays straight into Kovalev's hands.

Ward points is my prediction but I'd absolutely love Kovalev to win.

boxer.fan

Can anyone recall Ward ever being in the trenches in any of his fights to date? I can't think of any when he was in real trouble & had to dig himself out. Probably has never even been counted.

walshb

boxer.fan wrote: »

Can anyone recall Ward ever being in the trenches in any of his fights to date? I can't think of any when he was in real trouble & had to dig himself out. Probably has never even been counted.

No, his most known wins are in the super 6 and he was a clear winner in all. Froch gave him a hard fought fight. Ward was made work very hard to stay a step ahead.

Burial.

His fight with Boone was probably his toughest imo. I thought the Froch fight was an absolute clinic from Ward. Interestingly Boone dropped both him and Kovalev.

boxer.fan

walshb wrote: »

No, his most known wins are in the super 6 and he was a clear winner in all. Froch gave him a hard fought fight. Ward was made work very hard to stay a step ahead.

Yeah, Froch was well outgunned in that fight but it took plenty of action. Bika forced Ward into a scrappy win. Miranda proved difficult to put away also. But don't remember SOG getting wobbled ever.

walshb

Burial. wrote: »

His fight with Boone was probably his toughest imo. I thought the Froch fight was an absolute clinic from Ward. Interestingly Boone dropped both him and Kovalev.

I can't recall seeing that. I guess that's just me not being all that eager to tune into Ward. I know he's excellent, but for me he doesn't do excellent excellently. It's just too bland. Even his win over the bang average Paul Smith was boring as hell. That should have been his chance to really put on a better offensive showing.

Burial.

I dunno I really enjoy watching Ward, aside from his obvious technical brilliance. Obviously doesn't have the stunning power that automatically gives a fighter appeal but Ward has pop and it wouldn't shock me if he puts Kovalev on his ass Saturday night either. Maybe it's the same thing with Rigondeaux, people say he's very boring but I think he's a joy to watch and I'd pay good money to see him any time.

walshb

As much as I am looking forward to this fight I won't catch it live. Those days are over!

Halloween Jack

walshb wrote: »

As much as I am looking forward to this fight I won't catch it live. Those days are over!

After reading this I'm considering staying up....

http://www.boxingscene.com/kovalev-ward-superb-if-not-capital-s-super-fight--110809?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#sthash.CpZuUtpc.uxfs

walshb

Halloween Jack wrote: »

After reading this I'm considering staying up....

http://www.boxingscene.com/kovalev-ward-superb-if-not-capital-s-super-fight--110809?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#sthash.CpZuUtpc.uxfs

I enjoyed that read. Maybe I'll set the alarm...

Burial.

Tbh it's one of the best fights of the last decade. Must watch fight imo. Whether it lives up to it is a different matter but this is as good as it gets for me. I was supposed to have plans Saturday night and Sunday morning but to f*ck with that, wouldn't miss this for the world. Really looking forward to seeing Gvozdyk in the undercard too who I think in the not so distant future will be the top dog at 175 along with Bivol. Two stunning weekends of Boxing ahead of us where technician meets power puncher. Ward and Kovalev and Lomachenko and Walters the following weekend. Still in two minds over the fight, I am a big fan of Ward so I'd like him to win but Kovalev is a freak....but so is Ward in his own way. A draw might be the wisest bet here... I still will probably lump money on Ward by decision with the heart making me click confirm bet.

Henno30

Burial. wrote: »

His fight with Boone was probably his toughest imo. I thought the Froch fight was an absolute clinic from Ward. Interestingly Boone dropped both him and Kovalev.

And knocked Stevenson out.

I find it very hard to pick against Ward, even with the signs that he may have deteriorated a little. Like walshb I think the biggest questions relate to his offense. He looked one-handed and not particularly sharp against Barrera. His timing and reflexes were superb back in the Super Six days, but I wonder if he can still be as dominant a fighter with both of those dulled a little.

Whatever way it goes, I hope we get a boxing match. With Ward, and defensively oriented American fighters in general, there's always a real risk of them stinking the joint out with an ugly, mauling display. Despite his love of clinching Ward was always great to watch at 168. I just hope that's still true of him today.