Kovalev v Ward Discussion thread

walshb

TheNap wrote: »

Just dont see Ward keeping him at bay for 12 rounds.

Good point. Kovalev has a power and reach advantage. Ward needs to make this a dirty inside fight, but to get in he may see himself getting hurt, plus, Kovalev can make the necessary adjustments to counter this, as well as fight rough and tough up close. I think Kovalev has more boxing ways to win this....

boxer.fan

walshb wrote: »

Good point. Kovalev has a power and reach advantage. Ward needs to make this a dirty inside fight, but to get in he may see himself getting hurt, plus, Kovalev can make the necessary adjustments to counter this, as well as fight rough and tough up close. I think Kovalev has more boxing ways to win this....

I have given this fight a lot of thought since it was first announced. Kovalev has shown some vulnerability when he has been on the back foot in some of his fights, although we haven't seen him take a back step that much. I think Ward will definitely put him on the back foot & then we will see what Kovalev's chin is made of. If the rumours are correct that GGG had him on shaky legs then I would be concerned for Sergey. I'm not exactly saying that Ward will get the stoppage, but rather that he will keep Kovalev outside his comfort zone. Looking forward to it.

walshb

boxer.fan wrote: »

I have given this fight a lot of thought since it was first announced. Kovalev has shown some vulnerability when he has been on the back foot in some of his fights, although we haven't seen him take a back step that much. I think Ward will definitely put him on the back foot & then we will see what Kovalev's chin is made of. If the rumours are correct that GGG had him on shaky legs then I would be concerned for Sergey. I'm not exactly saying that Ward will get the stoppage, but rather that he will keep Kovalev outside his comfort zone. Looking forward to it.

Funny, I feel that the big issue for Ward will be that he won't have the strength or power to move Sergey back. Ward just is not a hitter no matter what way you look at it. Ward will try to close distance and smother Sergey. That's his key to victory. Ward's lead right hand may be his best points scoring weapon. Other than this he has to make it close and rugged.

TheNap

I'm hoping for a Ward win in an exciting fight .

Realises LHW isnt for him . Announces in the ring that he is moving back down and challenges GGG to move up weight to fight him.

Here's hoping.

Burial.

Such a hard fight to call. I still fancy Ward as he just has too many tools in his arsenal and he always finds a way. If my mind stays like that for the rest of the week I will be putting some handy money on Ward by decision. Kovalev's boxing ability is being massively overlooked by most from what I have read on other sites though. They just expect him to bludgeon him with one shot and that'll be it...I guess there's a small chance of that but I see this as a battle of who's jab is better. I saw Ward was 5/1 to get off the canvas and still win and I think that might be a sound bet.

Some nice videos are out about the fight. Have yet to watch the road to but the "my fight" was a very nice watch. And Lee Wylie's analysis is always gold.

walshb

Not to put a dampner on this but could this fight be a spectacle stinker? I am hoping for a high octane skilled fight. Doesn't have to be a tear up. Just skilled and clean and clearly fought. Similar to Groves-DeGale from a few years ago.

TheNap

walshb wrote: »

Not to put a dampner on this but could this fight be a spectacle stinker? I am hoping for a high octane skilled fight. Doesn't have to be a tear up. Just skilled and clean and clearly fought. Similar to Groves-DeGale from a few years ago.

Ward will have to let his hands go to keep SK off him though.

walshb

TheNap wrote: »

Ward will have to let his hands go to keep SK off him though.

Indeed. And he will need spite behind them. If he cannot do this then his best option is to fight in a spoiling/awkward/dirty fashion. Maybe the key is for Ward to "fight" at a very high pace. Constantly in and out and harassing SK with punches and feints and moves and ruggedness. Never allowing SK to establish a pattern.

Morrison J

Ward will play spoiler for sure. Either get right in at close range and make it ugly or stay at range. If he goes mid range and has a tear up it plays straight into Kovalev's hands.

Ward points is my prediction but I'd absolutely love Kovalev to win.

boxer.fan

Can anyone recall Ward ever being in the trenches in any of his fights to date? I can't think of any when he was in real trouble & had to dig himself out. Probably has never even been counted.

walshb

boxer.fan wrote: »

Can anyone recall Ward ever being in the trenches in any of his fights to date? I can't think of any when he was in real trouble & had to dig himself out. Probably has never even been counted.

No, his most known wins are in the super 6 and he was a clear winner in all. Froch gave him a hard fought fight. Ward was made work very hard to stay a step ahead.

Burial.

His fight with Boone was probably his toughest imo. I thought the Froch fight was an absolute clinic from Ward. Interestingly Boone dropped both him and Kovalev.

boxer.fan

walshb wrote: »

No, his most known wins are in the super 6 and he was a clear winner in all. Froch gave him a hard fought fight. Ward was made work very hard to stay a step ahead.

Yeah, Froch was well outgunned in that fight but it took plenty of action. Bika forced Ward into a scrappy win. Miranda proved difficult to put away also. But don't remember SOG getting wobbled ever.

walshb

Burial. wrote: »

His fight with Boone was probably his toughest imo. I thought the Froch fight was an absolute clinic from Ward. Interestingly Boone dropped both him and Kovalev.

I can't recall seeing that. I guess that's just me not being all that eager to tune into Ward. I know he's excellent, but for me he doesn't do excellent excellently. It's just too bland. Even his win over the bang average Paul Smith was boring as hell. That should have been his chance to really put on a better offensive showing.

Burial.

I dunno I really enjoy watching Ward, aside from his obvious technical brilliance. Obviously doesn't have the stunning power that automatically gives a fighter appeal but Ward has pop and it wouldn't shock me if he puts Kovalev on his ass Saturday night either. Maybe it's the same thing with Rigondeaux, people say he's very boring but I think he's a joy to watch and I'd pay good money to see him any time.

walshb

As much as I am looking forward to this fight I won't catch it live. Those days are over!

Halloween Jack

walshb wrote: »

As much as I am looking forward to this fight I won't catch it live. Those days are over!

After reading this I'm considering staying up....

http://www.boxingscene.com/kovalev-ward-superb-if-not-capital-s-super-fight--110809?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#sthash.CpZuUtpc.uxfs

walshb

Halloween Jack wrote: »

After reading this I'm considering staying up....

http://www.boxingscene.com/kovalev-ward-superb-if-not-capital-s-super-fight--110809?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#sthash.CpZuUtpc.uxfs

I enjoyed that read. Maybe I'll set the alarm...

Burial.

Tbh it's one of the best fights of the last decade. Must watch fight imo. Whether it lives up to it is a different matter but this is as good as it gets for me. I was supposed to have plans Saturday night and Sunday morning but to f*ck with that, wouldn't miss this for the world. Really looking forward to seeing Gvozdyk in the undercard too who I think in the not so distant future will be the top dog at 175 along with Bivol. Two stunning weekends of Boxing ahead of us where technician meets power puncher. Ward and Kovalev and Lomachenko and Walters the following weekend. Still in two minds over the fight, I am a big fan of Ward so I'd like him to win but Kovalev is a freak....but so is Ward in his own way. A draw might be the wisest bet here... I still will probably lump money on Ward by decision with the heart making me click confirm bet.

Henno30

Burial. wrote: »

His fight with Boone was probably his toughest imo. I thought the Froch fight was an absolute clinic from Ward. Interestingly Boone dropped both him and Kovalev.

And knocked Stevenson out.

I find it very hard to pick against Ward, even with the signs that he may have deteriorated a little. Like walshb I think the biggest questions relate to his offense. He looked one-handed and not particularly sharp against Barrera. His timing and reflexes were superb back in the Super Six days, but I wonder if he can still be as dominant a fighter with both of those dulled a little.

Whatever way it goes, I hope we get a boxing match. With Ward, and defensively oriented American fighters in general, there's always a real risk of them stinking the joint out with an ugly, mauling display. Despite his love of clinching Ward was always great to watch at 168. I just hope that's still true of him today.

Henno30

pac_man wrote: »

I hate to be negative and to rain on the parade of the people that are excited about this fight but the highlighted part is exactly how I see this going. Throw in a few missed lead hands from Ward that are followed with headbutts,elbows and general smothering and he's going to do what Hopkins couldn't do to Kovalev. Kovalev then gets frustrated and punches the back of Wards head resulting in points being taken off, in a general scrappy encounter.

It's interesting that you say that Ward has deteriorated a little bit and I kinda saw that when he fought Paul Smith. Are people guilty of having the Super Six version of Ward in their heads which is nearly five years at this stage. Since that Froch fight(~5 years ago), he's fought 5 opponents and in someways comes into this a bit unprepared.

Kovalev on the otherhand, has had excellent preparation for this fight in terms of past opponents. The fast hands in Jean Pascal, the awkwardness of Issac Chilemba albeit the performance wasn't great and the inside wrestling of Hopkins. He's kinda seen it all before.

I like Kovalev more than most as a fighter, but he has the same frailty that undermines the majority of the former Soviet block guys - an extreme weakness on the inside.

Time and time again we've seen that the way to upset the defensive American fighters is to match them or beat them at that mauling and wrestling. Only if you are truly exceptional on the outside is there a real alternative. Taylor beat B-Hop, albeit barely, because of his ability to sharp shoot from range. Pavlik by contrast wasn't fast enough to do that and got annihilated on the inside.

Ward's best strategy is to squeeze every last ounce of value from the clear advantages he has over Kovalev. And he has a clear advantage on the inside. There is a path to victory for him here that looks very similar to Hopkins-Trinidad.

Kovalev is obviously a better boxer than Tito, and he isn't going to be at a size disadvantage, but it is not hard to see how he could be disarmed in a similar fashion. Nor is it hard to see him gradually tire from fighting Ward's fight, lose his edge on the outside, and for Ward to start landing serious shots.

This may not happen. Kovalev will however need to be something special from the outside to avoid that fate.

walshb

I think Ward's best chance is to make this a very inside scrap. He leaves distance and I can't see him beating Kovalev. But, as I mentioned before, even in close he may be met with rough and tough responses from SK. He needs to be inside and work very fast. Nick and steal shots, out and move, in and out and nick and steal. Ward is good on the inside, but not brilliant. And SK will likely have the adjustments, strength and cleverness to not allow Ward be up close to him for too long.

Henno30

walshb wrote: »

I think Ward's best chance is to make this a very inside scrap. He leaves distance and I can't see him beating Kovalev. But, as I mentioned before, even in close he may be met with rough and tough responses from SK. He needs to be inside and work very fast. Nick and steal shots, out and move, in and out and nick and steal. Ward is good on the inside, but not brilliant. And SK will likely have the adjustments, strength and cleverness to not allow Ward be up close to him for too long.

When has Kovalev looked capable on the inside? I'm struggling to think of such an occasion. I actually thought he looked a bit ragged at times, and prone to big counters against Pascal in the first fight. He adjusted, but only in terms of his discipline with regard to distance.

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

When has Kovalev looked capable on the inside? I'm struggling to think of such an occasion. I actually thought he looked a bit ragged at times, and prone to big counters against Pascal in the first fight. He adjusted, but only in terms of his discipline with regard to distance.

I never said he was good on the inside, at least not in an offensive capacity.

Henno30

walshb wrote: »

I never said he was good on the inside, at least not in an offensive capacity.

I know, but you said Ward might be met with a rough response from Kovalev if he takes it to the inside. That's where I'm unconvinced. For me, if Ward can close the distance he'll give Kovalev hell on the inside. It's closing that distance that will be the big test for him.

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

I know, but you said Ward might be met with a rough response from Kovalev if he takes it to the inside. That's where I'm unconvinced. For me, if Ward can close the distance he'll give Kovalev hell on the inside. It's closing that distance that will be the big test for him.

It is the big question. If I were Ward's trainer I would be saying not to at all underestimate SKs ability to fight on the inside, or STOP you fighting on the inside. There are two permutations here. SK could surprise Ward and fight well on the inside or not fight well but spoil and make it difficult for Ward to fight well. Anyway, I think we can assume that SK won't be wanting to get up close, so Ward has to make it happen. That is more difficult than SK getting up close and Ward then doing his business.

Henno30

Lee Wylie's video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsL5Lp0fcZU

Henno30

walshb wrote: »

It is the big question. If I were Ward's trainer I would be saying not to at all underestimate SKs ability to fight on the inside, or STOP you fighting on the inside. There are two permutations here. SK could surprise Ward and fight well on the inside or not fight well but spoil and make it difficult for Ward to fight well. Anyway, I think we can assume that SK won't be wanting to get up close, so Ward has to make it happen. That is more difficult than SK getting up close and Ward then doing his business.

Kovalev's discipline against Hopkins was superb. Rarely got suckered into B-Hop's range the way most do. You would have to think he will have even more respect for Ward.

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

You would have to think he will have even more respect for Ward.

Much more. BHop was not there to win. And even if he was he hadn't a hope of doing anything. Useless performance from BHop.

BTW, at LHW SK beats any version of Hopkins. He's a bad match up for BHop.

willmunny1990

Can this be gotten through virgin media?