Couple are prosecuted for failing to treat son with meningitis

darkpagandeath

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes of course. It's child neglect and also it's putting other people in danger.

Ok, So how much jail time should you get for say not finishing an antibiotics course ?

cdeb

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I mean there are a few Religious beliefs to do with blood and treatment for example.

Those are the parents' religious beliefs though, not the child's.

The law should look out for the child in this case. And sod the parents' religious beliefs.

osarusan

JustShon wrote: »

How do you enforce it though? We don't have enough police to enforce the "No murdering each other rule" so how in the hells are we meant to enforce mandatory vaccines?

That's not really a good comparison.

Vaccinations are recorded.The state/HSE/HSE equivalent knows who has and hasn't been vaccinated.

Have it as part post-natal care and part of school visits.


Identify non-vaccinated children from vaccination records and schedule a vaccination appointment. Visit their home to vaccinate if necessary. Explain the consequences of failure to vaccinate (both health and legal).

It might probably end up in temporary removal of custody (to actually do the vaccinations).

The actual level of difficulty would not be high - it would be the notion of 'state intrusion on the family' that would be the biggest fight.

overshoot

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you're right, if they had vaccinated their child he probably would not have caught the disease. But it is their actions after he contracted the disease that are the real issue.

I just see both parts as equal issues really. It was their distrust of actual medicine as a whole that led to the child's easily preventable death. Action before or after contraction would have saved the child's life, why does it have to be staring you in the face to take action? Its unfortunate there is no cure for stupid.

JustShon

osarusan wrote: »

That's not really a good comparison.

Vaccinations are recorded.The state/HSE/HSE equivalent knows who has and hasn't been vaccinated.

Have it as part post-natal care and part of school visits.


Identify non-vaccinated children from vaccination records and schedule a vaccination appointment. Visit their home to vaccinate if necessary. Explain the consequences of failure to vaccinate (both health and legal).

It might probably end up in temporary removal of custody (to actually do the vaccinations).

The actual level of difficulty would not be high - it would be the notion of 'state intrusion on the family' that would be the biggest fight.

Ok, fair points but I still think it would be difficult to enforce.

Perhaps, and I apologise profusely for bringing it up, Irish Water would be a better comparison. They have all the records of who has and hasn't paid, and they had government support to boot but people still, relatively easily, evaded payment.

osarusan

JustShon wrote: »

Perhaps, and I apologise profusely for bringing it up, Irish Water would be a better comparison. They have all the records of who has and hasn't paid, and they had government support to boot but people still, relatively easily, evaded payment.

I think that it's a good example of something the could easily prosecute but chooses not to prosecute.

It's the same issue of the 'state sticking its oar in' but I don't think there would be mass protests in support of parents who refused to vaccinate their children without reason.

I would like to think that there isn't too high a percentage of non-vaccinated kids out there to begin with anyway.

Sapphire

cdeb wrote: »

Those are the parents' religious beliefs though, not the child's.

The law should look out for the child in this case. And sod the parents' religious beliefs.

Don't a lot of hospitals intervene anyway when the beliefs of a parent means withholding vital medical care of a child like JW and blood transfusions.

captbarnacles

Terrifyingly, Meynders is a registered nurse.

August 20, 2010: Ezekiel Stephan is born at home with the assistance of
birthing assistant Terry Meynders, who is also a registered nurse.

screamer

I think the vaccination part is more trivial to the fact that these "parents" let their child die......................

darkpagandeath

"Parents now need to be afraid when their kid has a cough, when their kid has a cold because you better bring him in the second he sniffles or the second he coughs because if you don't, the Crown is going to be after you."

Hyperbole much? According to the article in the OP the child did not just have a cough or a sniffle. He had symptoms that were even initially so bad that the mother called them "heart wrenching" - and only got worse from there. And this went on for nearly 2 weeks.

Even the most basic over the counter medicines - for the most basic conditions - that you buy generally have written on them "If symptoms persist beyond 48 hours - seek advice". Let alone symptoms like those described in the OP.

Describing this ruling as "You better bring in a child the second they sniffle or the man will be after you" is just outrageous hyperbole.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

It's a tough one, How far can the state go against beliefs.

It is a grey area in some respects yes. But less of a gray area when you distinguish between adults making religious based medical refusal for themselves - or doing so vicariously on behalf of a minor in their care.

If someone wants to refuse medical intervention and die - that is one thing - but if they want to withhold it from a child and watch them die - that is quite another.

However I did - purely because I have read so many stories like this before - read the OP just waiting for the line where it was revealed the parents avoided medical intervention on religious grounds.

And it either was not there or I missed it. Seems the parents in this case were just anti pharma pro quack medicine types and it was not (explicitly) a religious thing this time? I am well open for correction however.

overshoot wrote: »

Make vaccinations a condition of child support payments, not forced, but it will give a good incentive

Access to medical insurance might be another incentive where things could be effectively mediated.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Ok, So how much jail time should you get for say not finishing an antibiotics course ?

There was likely enough hyperbole coming from the guy quoted in the OP without you adding to it.

omahaid

screamer wrote: »

I think the vaccination part is more trivial to the fact that these "parents" let their child die......................

I'm baffled at why vaccines are mentioned in this thread considering they watched and allowed their child die.

JustShon

osarusan wrote: »

I would like to think that there isn't too high a percentage of non-vaccinated kids out there to begin with anyway.

I don't know what it's like in Ireland to be honest but it has become a significant problem in the USA to the point where some diseases are making a comeback. Measles for example.

OldNotWIse

screamer wrote: »

I think the vaccination part is more trivial to the fact that these "parents" let their child die......................

Agree. I would vaccinate my kids if I had any, but I am pretty sure there are many parents who wouldn't vaccinate their kids but would, if there child was sick, make sure it got the proper medical attention it needed.

osarusan

screamer wrote: »

I think the vaccination part is more trivial to the fact that these "parents" let their child die......................

I'm sure the parents would dispute that description of their behaviour.

The problem is that the mentality which saw them going off to get naturopathic remedies or whatever it was (which we view as doing nothing other than watching the child die) possibly stems from the same mentality that saw them not vaccinate their child in the first place.

Certainly, one does not inevitably follow the other though.

mariaalice

What is a big issue in general and much wider than this issue: people latching on to some theory or other could be anything but usually they are around issues such as living an authentic life, being 'happy' childcare, childbirth, intimacy, fad about diet and so on, anyway when the theory dose not work at achieving he desired results.. instead of questing the theory they blame society. They do this because they are self absorbed and have little insight in to to themselves.

angeldelight

That poor poor little boy. What a horrific painful and sad way to die

wes

The Doctor that put out the bull **** about vaccines causing Autism, imho has blood on there hands. That lunatics nonsense, has some how managed to spread far and wide, and it helped the lunatic Anti-vaxer movement.

Honestly, I don't even understand the logic. Even if the claim was true, surely a living Autistic child is better than a dead one ffs.

sKeith

The vacciines done on an infant, under two, are for tb or measles mumps rubella, no. It was my understanding the meningitis is advised first at 11 years old.

osarusan

sKeith wrote: »

The vacciines done on an infant, under two, are for tb or measles mumps rubella, no. It was my understanding the meningitis is advised first at 11 years old.

Men C vaccinations when you are 2, 4, 6 months old. Booster in 1st year of secondary school.

Cee-Jay-Cee

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Forced vaccinations is a step too far

I agree, however when your child is showing symptoms such as that child was, you bring him/her to a doctor, not for a vaccination but for proper treatment.

They allowed their child to die because of their own ignorance and pigheadedness. They were informed by a nurse the child may have meningitis and instead of taking him to a hospital or doctor, they took him to one of their quack colleagues, despite the fact that the poor child was so stiff he couldnt bend his back to sit in a chair and had to lie down on the journey and yet they continued to deny the poor child medical care. They are fully responsible and should be punished to send the message out to other parents that might act in a similar manner to them!

I'm not suggesting that parents should be forced to vaccinate their children, that, I believe is a personal choice but parents (especially those with absolutely no medical training) should ensure their children receive the proper care and attention when their kids are displaying very abnormal and serious medical symptoms.

screamer

wes wrote: »

The Doctor that put out the bull **** about vaccines causing Autism, imho has blood on there hands. That lunatics nonsense, has some how managed to spread far and wide, and it helped the lunatic Anti-vaxer movement.

Honestly, I don't even understand the logic. Even if the claim was true, surely a living Autistic child is better than a dead one ffs.

It's said that autism is only diagnosable around the same age the MMR is administered and so its a coincidence rather than a causr. It's sad but I've seen it myself parents who cannot accept their child is autistic and go looking for any reason to blame for it. I think the risks of vaccination is better then the risks of not vaccinating TBH.

The One Doctor

Those parents tortured their child to death by proxy - deliberately. Nasty, ignorant people.

SEPT 23 1989

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I agree, however when your child is showing symptoms such as that child was, you bring him/her to a doctor, not for a vaccination but for proper treatment.

They allowed their child to die because of their own ignorance and pigheadedness. They were informed by a nurse the child may have meningitis and instead of taking him to a hospital or doctor, they took him to one of their quack colleagues, despite the fact that the poor child was so stiff he couldnt bend his back to sit in a chair and had to lie down on the journey and yet they continued to deny the poor child medical care. They are fully responsible and should be punished to send the message out to other parents that might act in a similar manner to them!

I'm not suggesting that parents should be forced to vaccinate their children, that, I believe is a personal choice but parents (especially those with absolutely no medical training) should ensure their children receive the proper care and attention when their kids are displaying very abnormal and serious medical symptoms.

Oh listen don't get me wrong im talking about forced vaccinations here

those pair of idiots should be done for murder

steddyeddy

screamer wrote: »

I think the vaccination part is more trivial to the fact that these "parents" let their child die......................

The vaccination refusal is a big part of why their child died.

ohnonotgmail

steddyeddy wrote: »

The vaccination refusal is a big part of why their child died.

well no. the vaccination refusal is why their child contacted meningitis. the child died because of the neglect that occurred after it contacted meningitis.

steddyeddy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well no. the vaccination refusal is why their child contacted meningitis. the child died because of the neglect that occurred after it contacted meningitis.

Both are the reason the child died.

Samaris

The One Doctor wrote: »

Those parents tortured their child to death by proxy - deliberately. Nasty, ignorant people.

Ignorant, yes. Nasty? No. The court even said in the ruling that there was no suggestion that the parents anything but loved their child. But they were sadly ignorant of modern medicine. You can say it was deliberately, willfully ignorant, but I put a hell of a lot of the blame onto Andrew Wakefield, the "doctor" that started this whole goddamned mess of a vaccine = autism rubbish. And people like Jenny McCarthy who keeps publicising this thoroughly debunked nonsense and scaring well-meaning, poorly educated parents. And then the child suffers. And the families, including the parents that never intended harm to come to them.

I think they were foolish and deluded in persisting with ineffective treatment, although I do note that the child kept appearing to improve before deteriorating again. I suppose the parents kept assuming that their quack treatment was working and he just needed more of it.

Poor kid.

Seems like a good decision.

Hopefully they will now go after the naturopathic "doctor" too. If someone holds themselves out as a doctor and offers daisies to treat meningitis...it's just shocking...

wakka12

Really I don't think its the fault of anybody but the parents, certainly not the governments. Some people just have crazy moron parents and thats the way it is..forced vaccinations is a bit too dystopia like for most peoples tastes I would imagine.

There is something sad about the Facebook letter to the jurors. You would think he might drop the whole campaigning about Government conspiracies, and maybe concentrate on the child they've lost.