Deer Alliance Advanced Markmanship Course

Cass

I was checking the deer alliance website last night to get details for the HCAP. I noticed they are advertising an Advanced Markmanship Course to be held in the MNSCI on the 28th May.

Anyone know what this is? A competition or some form of test? What format is it? Deer targets or bullseye and what distances.

BTW no motive here (terrible i have to excuse myself beforehand). Just curious as to what it's about.

Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks.

VBull

Not a clue what that shoot involves but i see wild deer association are having a shooting day with the british deer society in july so maybe both will be a similar shoot.

The wild deer association shoot will be at deer targets (pop up?) with timed shooting for follow up shots but thats all i heard about that shoot

Cass

Is that an open shoot or members only? I assume members only. I'm also assuming its a "test" type (like the marksmanship one above) thing or is a comp.

VBull

Yeah its a members shoot.

Its advertised as a competition but also to test marksmanship and help educate on marksmanship and safety.

"The competition will involve members from both the Wild Deer Association of Ireland and the Northern Ireland branch of the British Deer Society (BDS NI) shooting an advanced deer stalkers format similar to that used by the BDS advanced deer-stalking field experience and includes timed shooting to replicate a follow up shot while deer stalking.

A team event will also take place, selected from the top ten shooters from each organisation. Members who achieve a minimum standard will receive a certificate of achievement and the event will also include a talk on marksmanship and safety."


Thats the info i seen on it, looks like everyone shoots and the 10 best on each side go forward to shoot again as a team

Cass

Might take a stroll down and watch if thats okay?

cookimonster

As per the web

The Deer Alliance, originators and administrators of the Hunter Competence Assessment Programme (HCAP) since inception in 2005, will hold its first Advanced Marksmanship Course at the Midland National Shooting Grounds, Blue Ball, Tullamore, Co. Offaly on Saturday 28th May 2016. The Advanced Marksmanship Course is open to HCAP-Certified candidates only and is comprised of a three-position fifteen-round course of fire over 100 metres, supported by lectures & demonstrations in the safe use, handling, care & storage of firearms, including practical demonstrations of zeroing the rifle. Successful candidates will receive a Certificate of Special Competence in Marksmanship. The new course will be offered on a limited pilot basis only in 2016 and entry will be restricted to the first thirty applications received. Cost of participation for the one-day course is €100.00. Application and payment can be made online through the Online Applications section of the Deer Alliance website. An Application Form can also be downloaded from the website for submission by post.

The target used will be the standard HCAP Deer Target, with all fifteen rounds to be placed accurately inside the Heart & Lung killing zone on the target. Five rounds of deer-legal ammunition (not supplied) will be fired in each of the three positions – prone, kneeling/sitting and standing, all shots rested. All legitimate stalking aids can be used e.g. bipods, tripods and stalking sticks.
The Advanced Marksmanship Course is designed to test the shooting skill of the experienced hunter and will mark successful candidates out as possessing exceptional skill in marksmanship for the purpose of safe and efficient and humane control or wild deer.

From the above its seems to be a 'course' I was initially interested but at. €100 a skull I'll pass and spend the money on ammo.

VBull

I honestly wouldnt have a clue mate as im not involved in it, only seen it on facebook a few days ago.

I dont know what the policy of the midlands range is for visitors who arent shooting but im sure if you contacted them or the wild deer association they would be able to tell you.

Cass

cookimonster wrote: »

As per the web.

That on their website? Didn't see it.

VBull wrote: »

I dont know what the policy of the midlands range is for visitors who arent shooting but im sure if you contacted them or the wild deer association they would be able to tell you.

It's okay on that front. I'm a member and RO so most likely will be around when it's happening. Just curious about the shoots. Only seen the Deer Alliance one, and never knew about the WDAI one.

VBull

I knew about the HCAP ran by the deer alliance but their new shoot is news to me. I also didnt know the WDAI (thanks for the short version) held shoots, i thought they just did seminars in butchering and information.


I found the deer alliance information on their website deeralliance.ie/blog/uncategorized/deer-alliance-advanced-marksmanship-course-2016/

Im not a deer shooter (currently) but i know the HCAP is needed for people with leases on coillte land but im wondering what is the purpose for this new course thats been piloted this year.

Unless there are changes been proposed or already in place then i see no need for this course (as a requirement) unless its just a way for people to test their skills against other deer stalkers but then why is it a pilot course and at a fairly large cost (for some people) with a cert (i imagine) saying your more competent that those who have also passed the HCAP

Maybe im just been paranoid but looks like more restrictive measures coming down the line.

Sika98k

Over half of the deer stalkers in this country have done the HCAP. The Deer Alliance is pressing for mandatory certification. Of course it is laudable.
It also produces revenue = income. Introducing new courses is another means of increasing revenue.
If you want to double your stipend the money has to come from somewhere.
Like the HCAP it is highly unlikely you will fail. It will be interesting to see how many turn up for this course. I will also spend my €100 on ammunition.

Cass

VBull wrote: »

I found the deer alliance information on their website deeralliance.ie/blog/uncategorized/deer-alliance-advanced-marksmanship-course-2016/

Never even copped that. Thanks. Had i found that i wouldn't have had to ask here.

Im not a deer shooter (currently) but i know the HCAP is needed for people with leases on coillte land but im wondering what is the purpose for this new course thats been piloted this year.

Over the years the Deer Alliance have held shoots on the MNSCI. I assume this is another one, but with a certification at the end of it. The cert may be of no use to anyone anywhere else (say Wales, England, Scotland, Europe, etc), but for a Coilte lease, culling, etc may be of some use.

Unless there are changes been proposed or already in place then i see no need for this course (as a requirement) unless its just a way for people to test their skills against other deer stalkers but then why is it a pilot course and at a fairly large cost (for some people) with a cert (i imagine) saying your more competent that those who have also passed the HCAP

Back to what i said on other threads about proficiency courses becoming the norm This idea was floated by the so called "Sports Coalition" and is an abomination that needs to be drowned. All such courses should receive a speedy death. However if its simply a case of hunters testing their abilities, and earning a certification for their own wants then more power to them, and i hope they enjoy their day out.

Maybe im just been paranoid but looks like more restrictive measures coming down the line.

I'm not against training or improvement, but i am against courses that have no legal standing and are being ran by "experts" with the simple goal of earning money.

There has been talk for years and years that the HCAP will be made mandatory for all deer stalkers. I still don't understand how that can happen as it's not recognised outside of Ireland and is only mandatory for Coilte lands (State lands) and not private lands.

By the way anyone have a link to the WDAI shoot details? Time, date, format, shots, distances, etc? Cheers.

meathstevie

Hitting a basket ball sized target at 100m with a scoped high velocity bolt action rifle is hardly advanced marksmanship truth be told...

Grizzly 45

Sika98k wrote: »

Over half of the deer stalkers in this country have done the HCAP. The Deer Alliance is pressing for mandatory certification. Of course it is laudable.
It also produces revenue = income. Introducing new courses is another means of increasing revenue.
If you want to double your stipend the money has to come from somewhere.
Like the HCAP it is highly unlikely you will fail. It will be interesting to see how many turn up for this course. I will also spend my €100 on ammunition.

Stay in your Coilte forests,cos thats ALL your mandate is under law.but like creeping parasite organisms,once one host is dry they must move on to fresh pastures.Also, how or why is a EU certification not acceptable to Irish standards? this is possibly also in breech of the free movement aof goods and trade EU acts.If you are a qualified stalker in the EU, and come to Ireland your qualifications have to be accepted straight off,and vice versa.

Sika98k

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Stay in your Coilte forests,cos thats ALL your mandate is under law.but like creeping parasite organisms,once one host is dry they must move on to fresh pastures.Also, how or why is a EU certification not acceptable to Irish standards? this is possibly also in breech of the free movement aof goods and trade EU acts.If you are a qualified stalker in the EU, and come to Ireland your qualifications have to be accepted straight off,and vice versa.

As far as I am aware and I may be incorrect but such qualifications such as the DSC1 or 2,the German jagdschein and the Danish jagttegn are recognised here if you are a visiting hunter on a Coillte let.

Grizzly 45

Visiting being the operative word. Permanently residing might be different.

VBull

Cass wrote: »

I'm not against training or improvement, but i am against courses that have no legal standing and are being ran by "experts" with the simple goal of earning money.

There has been talk for years and years that the HCAP will be made mandatory for all deer stalkers. I still don't understand how that can happen as it's not recognised outside of Ireland and is only mandatory for Coilte lands (State lands) and not private lands.

By the way anyone have a link to the WDAI shoot details? Time, date, format, shots, distances, etc? Cheers.

I generally have no problem with minimum standards or improvement programmes but like you when its from one person/group pushing for certification for personal gain then i usually think F off.

The shoot is on July 23rd

Details here ww.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1092333964122577&id=125121684177148&substory_index=0 (cant direct link)

It doesnt mention shot count or distances