Still trying to figure it all out.

Swashbuckler

OOnegative wrote:

I’d be hugely surprised if hbs doesn’t run sub 65 mins in Mallow, unless he has a really really bad day. I found with L you to get used to a certain pace in training but race pace was always maybe 10/15 secs faster(apart from marathon stuff that was royally fcuked up by me).

Jesus I dunno if I'd agree with you there. I'm not running 15secs faster than my training paces. My 5k and 10k training has been spot on to be honest.

As for HBS in Mallow to be honest I haven't a clue. For a 65min 10 miler you're talking 6.30min miles. What do you reckon HBS? Genuine non sandbag aggressive target is?.........

OOnegative

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Jesus I dunno if I'd agree with you there. I'm not running 15secs faster than my training paces. My 5k and 10k training has been spot on to be honest.

Your obviously not pushing hard enough in races then..... haha!! I found that with myself, I ran maybe 10/15 seconds faster in a race environment compared to training. Certainly was the case last year for the Trim 10 mile where I ran most of my sessions at 6.40 but ran the race at 6.25. I’m taking hbs log off topic anyway, sorry.

hot buttered scones

OOnegative wrote: »

I’d be hugely surprised if hbs doesn’t run sub 65 mins in Mallow, unless he has a really really bad day. I found with L you to get used to a certain pace in training but race pace was always maybe 10/15 secs faster(apart from marathon stuff that was royally fcuked up by me).

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Jesus I dunno if I'd agree with you there. I'm not running 15secs faster than my training paces. My 5k and 10k training has been spot on to be honest.

As for HBS in Mallow to be honest I haven't a clue. For a 65min 10 miler you're talking 6.30min miles. What do you reckon HBS? Genuine non sandbag aggressive target is?.........

He always emphasises to the effort is more important than the pace - so what might feel like 10k effort at say 6:30 pace in training might end up being 6:25-6:20 on race day fully rested - the "might" being very important there. I suppsoe it depends on the individual. There's a big difference between running 10k at 10.30 in the morning and doing 3 minute reps in the dark before 7am too!

My non-sandbaggy agressive target - I don't know. All my shorter reps are at 6:30 pace which I think is nearer 10k effort for me at the moment. Look I'll be delighted with 67, but there's 65 minute pacers so I might start off behind them a bit and try and keep them in sight. With a bit of luck it might be a race of two halves. My 10 mile PB is close to 69 but it's 2 years old. My "unofficial" 10 mile split from Charleville last year is 65:41 - but I'm not in that kind of shape (at least I don't think so anyway). I think the sensible approach is 6:40 - 6:45 pace - but I'm rarely sensible when it comes to racing

OOnegative

hot buttered scones wrote: »

He always emphasises to the effort is more important than the pace - so what might feel like 10k effort at say 6:30 pace in training might end up being 6:25-6:20 on race day fully rested - the "might" being very important there. I suppsoe it depends on the individual. There's a big difference between running 10k at 10.30 in the morning and doing 3 minute reps in the dark before 7am too!

My non-sandbaggy agressive target - I don't know. All my shorter reps are at 6:30 pace which I think is nearer 10k effort for me at the moment. Look I'll be delighted with 67, but there's 65 minute pacers so I might start off behind them a bit and try and keep them in sight. With a bit of luck it might be a race of two halves. My 10 mile PB is close to 69 but it's 2 years old. My "unofficial" 10 mile split from Charleville last year is 65:41 - but I'm not in that kind of shape (at least I don't think so anyway). I think the sensible approach is 6:40 - 6:45 pace - but I'm rarely sensible when it comes to racing

Only thing i’ll add and will say no more, I didn’t think I was in 6.25 pace last year but was and was comfortable till last mile doing it. See what you feel like on race day.

Swashbuckler

OOnegative wrote:

Your obviously not pushing hard enough in races then..... haha!! I found that with myself, I ran maybe 10/15 seconds faster in a race environment compared to training. Certainly was the case last year for the Trim 10 mile where I ran most of my sessions at 6.40 but ran the race at 6.25. I’m taking hbs log off topic anyway, sorry.

I'm sure HBS doesn't mind running chat in his log. It's relevant to us all really. At a guess I'd say my 10mile pace is around 6.15. If I was to try 6.00 I think I'd be in trouble but who knows! Haha

Looking at HBS training it does look like a lot of the shorter intervals are in or around 6.30 which maybe indicates that's his current 10k pace but I'm only guessing really. Interesting stuff though.

Sorry for derailing HBS

hot buttered scones

Swashbuckler wrote:

I'm sure HBS doesn't mind running chat in his log. It's relevant to us all really. At a guess I'd say my 10mile pace is around 6.15. If I was to try 6.00 I think I'd be in trouble but who knows! Haha

I don't mind at all

Swashbuckler wrote:

Sorry for derailing HBS

Not derailing - its all relevant.

The answer is (as always) I'll know after the first half a mile or so. Until then anything goes. It's kind of a "free" race in my head - I hadn't really planned for it initially and only managed to get a transfer at the last minute so there's nothing to loose here and no pressure. I'm going to put time goals out of my head for now and just hope to put in a good effort.

Swashbuckler

hot buttered scones wrote:

The answer is (as always) I'll know after the first half a mile or so. Until then anything goes. It's kind of a "free" race in my head - I hadn't really planned for it initially and only managed to get a transfer at the last minute so there's nothing to loose here and no pressure. I'm going to put time goals out of my head for now and just hope to put in a good effort.

Great attitude. I felt the same about Adare in relation to it being a free race and ran a 30s pb.

To me honest L's approach to regular racing has led me to rethink my attitude to racing. I used to put a lot of pressure on a target race but when you're racing all the time it really takes the pressure off. It's great!

hot buttered scones

Monday 19/03

6 easy@8:20, before work around the harbour. Haven't a clue what this was like.

Tuesday 20/03

Mini Session - 12x1 min with 1 min recoveries. Focus was on running comfortable and keeping good form, which I did. The reps were a bit on the fast side - should have been around 6:25 - 6:30 but most ended up a good bit lower than that (around 6:15ish). With warmup and cool down miles it ended up at 7.3 for the day.

Wednesday 21/03

6 easy@8:24. Between night shifts. Felt a bit tired and me left knee was giving out a bit and for the night afterwards. It seems to have eased off now, but there's a nice tight spot higher up on my left quad which may be the culprit.

Thursday 22/03

A rest day, nicely placed in the week and very welcome

Friday 23/03

5 easy@8:26 down the Glen. Turned a corner to see a load of soldiers in full camouflage (face paint 'n all) pointing guns up the trail in my direction - but they were only training. I had to pass them on a lap or two as they ran around in their full gear. The strangest thing I've seen on a run since I saw the "HMP Maze" sign outside the old Cork Prison when they were filming up there a while back.

Saturday 24/03

Shakeout+strides - 3.3 miles in all with 6x20s easy strides. The strides felt great, and the I was surprised at the pace of the easy bits - they were a bit faster than normal, but the effort was right. Legs felt lovely and light for a change. Feeling good.

Testosterscone

hot buttered scones wrote: »

My "unofficial" 10 mile split from Charleville last year is 65:41 - but I'm not in that kind of shape

Your right you are not in that shape...... Sandbagger

Well done

Swashbuckler

So Oonegative was half right. Well done M. Great result. Dug in strong with some setbacks thrown at you on the day.

hot buttered scones

Swashbuckler wrote: »

So Oonegative was half right. Well done M. Great result. Dug in strong with some setbacks thrown at you on the day.

Me back was sore from lugging around all those sandbags!!

hot buttered scones

Testosterscone wrote: »

Your right you are not in that shape...... Sandbagger

Well done

Well I wasn't wrong was I?

Full report to follow - but for now official results are:
64:47 chip; 64:56 clock.

115/1241 overall; 34/191 M40 category.

Bit of a watch moment at the start, so Strava time is a bit off.

Absolutely buzzing.

I'm still not sure if I'm in sub 40 shape for the 10k in a couple of weeks though. :P

OOnegative

Cracking stuff, very well done dude. Told you you were in sub 65 min shape :p:p.

hot buttered scones

OOnegative wrote:

Cracking stuff, very well done dude. Told you you were in sub 65 min shape .

Well fair play to you, you got me thinking and I couldn't get the idea out of my head. Ended up with the attitude that I'd give it a lash - nothing ventured, nothing gained.

adrian522

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Well I wasn't wrong was I?

Full report to follow - but for now official results are:
64:47 chip; 64:56 clock.

115/1241 overall; 34/191 M40 category.

Bit of a watch moment at the start, so Strava time is a bit off.

Absolutely buzzing.

I'm still not sure if I'm in sub 40 shape for the 10k in a couple of weeks though. :P

Yeah, more like sub 39 shape.

hot buttered scones

Sunday 25/03

Race - Mallow 10 mile

I ended up being pretty anxious about this which surprised me. I was a bit unsure of myself not having raced enough. I usually deal with this with a bit of positive thinking, and bigging myself up in my head. This time I didn't bother - I just chose not to think about it outside the logistics of getting there etc. which seemed to work. On Saturday evening, when I was checking out the best place to park on I noticed that the start time for the race was 12:30 - I'd been thinking all along it was 1:30 (getting mixed up with Ballycotton) - so I was very nearly late!.

Turned up in Mallow in plenty of time, had a bit of a stroll about collecting the number etc. before doing a short warmup. Changed into the flats then and did another small bit with a few strides to check the shoes felt comfortable. I lined up behind the 65 minute pacers - I though I'd try it and see if it would stick
As we lined up to start I turned on the watch and the pace was stuck @ 1:00 - I though this was a bit strange. We got a two minute warning, so I rebooted my watch - but then the race started before I got it going again, so I didn't start recording until about 150m in. I then missed the 1 mile marker, so at the 2 mile marker I pressed the lap button so at least I'd be in sync. Although Garmin Connect has me down as running 10.00 miles so I musn't have run a good line. I got it into my head early on that I'd be running off effort rather and not focus too much on time because I was wasn;t sure how many seconds I was behind
I'll be quoting the split times from Strava and not the lap times because they're a bit missed up

Miles 1-4

6:24; 6:32; 6:17; 6:18

For the first mile I just followed the pace group out. I really liked the start. It started on the main street in Mallow and was a slight drop down to the bridge for the first 200m or so. The street was narrow enough, but I think that added to the atmosphere. I tucked in behind the 65 minute pace group, and followed them out the road. There was a bit of a drag here for the first km or so, and the effort felt a bit high, but I was focused on controlling my breathing and felt like I was right below the edge (what I assume is my LT) - which was the right effort I think. The 2nd mile was still a bit of a drag, but not as severe. The group had settled into a good pace, but I was feeling a bit boxed in so I took off ahead of them once we got out of the breeze and settled in with another group just ahead. The 3rd + 4th miles started with a small pull to get up onto the N20 which wasn't as bad as expected. I pulled ahead here a small bit again - I think I was just at the head of that small group and we might have swapped places a couple of times. This was a nice mile where the road fell off towards the river and I was able to make a bit of time. Then a water stop, where I rinsed out my mouth , took a small sip and threw the rest over my head - it was starting to feel warm even with the crosswind. We'd gotten a warning to watch the surface at the start of these 2 mile on the N20 - it was patchy in places. As we passed the water stop, I got into a nice rhythm and concentrated on holding that effort rather than pushing ahead and taking more advantage of the gradient. The next thing my mind was wandering - I started thinking about the Cork Half, and how they might be taking the Atlantic Pond out of it, and how I tripped there in 2016. And then I stumbled and nearly went flying. I don't know how I stayed upright, but I did and I don't what I tripped over - I suspect I just had lazy feet for an instant. I was kind of flustered after that and a bit morto, so I pulled ahead of a small group that had formed. As we headed away from the river towards the roundabout, the road rose again a bit. I put a bit too much effort in here and when I turned the corner onto the N72 I felt a bit winded.

Miles 5-7
6:29; 6:35; 6:40

The 2.5 miles along the N72 where tough. I had this section pegged as being one to get stuck into - it was nice and flat and straight enough. But we were running head on into a fairly stiff breeze, and I was starting to tire - well my legs were anyway. I just got on with it really. I started getting thoughts of slowing down or thinking things like "66 or 67 would still be a great result" - but in the end I managed to block that out and focus on running, not letting the guy ahead get any further away. I had found myself a bit exposed here on probably the worst part of the course to do so. I though the turn off would never come, and when it did it was very welcome as we were away from the wind. There was a water stop just before th 7 miles mark I think - I took my glasses off to throw water on my head and they went flying. I doubled back to pick them up and was slow taking off again - I had to push it a bit to get going again. So in summary - got focussed and tried to maintain a good effort without leaving nothing there for the last 3 miles.

Miles 8-10

6:36; 6:26; 6:17.

Mile 8 was a struggle - I was settling and trying to do sums in my head. There was a small bit of a drag here which made the pace seem harder. By now my legs were hopping and my breathing had gotten less regular. I tried to gather a bit of composure - deep breaths, check form, use the arms for a bit. Again I tried to dispel any negative thoughts by just focusing on running right now in this instant. As we hit the 8 mile marker I could here the 65 minute pace group come up behind me and as they passed I gave in and fell in just behind them. I was probably only 100m ahead of them at any point, but I never look back so I felt like I'd left them a good bit behind. Anyway, I was glad of the motivation and of the support for the closing miles. There was a nice bit about half way through mile 9 where the road fell away for about 200m back to the river - a bit of relief from the effort and the chance to make up a few seconds. Then the push for home. It was a fairly straight run back into Mallow, but I was suffering and hanging onto the tail of the group. With 800m to go I was breathing heavily and pushing hard, and again settling for decent time. I tried to push on - but I was slowing down and the group were getting further away. I felt spent, my form was bad and I was breathing very heavily. Then we came in sight of the finish line. I guess I had about 150m to 200m to go. I could see the clock counting upwards towards 65 and I could hear the shouts of encouragement from the pacer. I thought I was spent, but obviously not. I was trying to get some deep breaths in but my lungs felt constricted and my chest muscles tight. So I pushed hard. I left out an involuntary roar (which seemed to open up the lungs a bit) and just took off towards the finish line as fast as I could go - my legs were on autopilot, I had tunnel vision and I'd say my face was contorted - so a bit morto, but it worked and I got in under 65 clock time. I doubled over trying to catch my breath and was fairly gasping for breath and empty reaching (backwash only!) - I had a time convincing the first aid guy I'd be alright in a minute or two which I was.
So After a drink, a stroll and a few chats I did a couple of easy miles along the banks of the Blackwater and back up through the town for some coffee, cake and sandwiches with the feeling of a job well done.

64:46 chip time. Previous 10 mile PB was Ballycotton 2016 - 68:53. Although Strava gave my 10 mile split from the Charleville half last year as 65:41, that's not official. So officially that was a 4:06 PB.
Also Strava say my 10k best effort was 39.59, which would have made that my first sub 40 10k if it were official.

Total miles for the day: 14.1
Weekly total: 41.8

Next up, the UCC 10k on April 8th. There's a fecker of a hill in the 3rd mile, so I don't think a goal of 39 minutes is sandbagging.

After that the 25k - looking at the last 2 years 1:44:00 would get me in the top ten. McMillan gives me an a time of 1:43:48 based on the 10 miler yesterday, but of course it all depends on who turns up on the day.

Murph_D

Great stuff Mark. You're too smart to take anything for granted but that sub-40 is the next milestone you'll be ticking off.

OOnegative

Great report and racing man, fair play. What did you roar? Up the Rebels?!

skyblue46

Brilliant time and very well deserved. Between yourself, swashbuckler and AMK ye are outdoing each other week by week! Nothing to do with times just raising the bar when it comes to ways of describing pain!! Haha.

Best of luck for the next race, no doubt you'll hit your next targets too.

hot buttered scones

Murph_D wrote: »

Great stuff Mark. You're too smart to take anything for granted but that sub-40 is the next milestone you'll be ticking off.

I'm fairly confident about it, but it's all on the day, as the say!

OOnegative wrote: »

Great report and racing man, fair play. What did you roar? Up the Rebels?!

Nnnnarrgghhaahhh (sp?)

skyblue46 wrote: »

Brilliant time and very well deserved. Between yourself, swashbuckler and AMK ye are outdoing each other week by week! Nothing to do with times just raising the bar when it comes to ways of describing pain!! Haha.

Best of luck for the next race, no doubt you'll hit your next targets too.

There's nothing quite like getting stuck deep in the hurt locker for a bit of literary inspiration.

Swashbuckler

There's a common theme there too - same coach!

Well done HBS. Great to see the detailed story behind it all.
The negative thoughts are something I have to battle in each race too. It's as much a mental battle as a physical one.
As for the contorted face I wouldn't worry. You should see some of the photos of me on the final stretch in Lahinch and Adare. A sight to behold.
Now I must go to Facebook and try to find your finishing photo. Haha

hot buttered scones

Swashbuckler wrote:

There's a common theme there too - same coach!

Exactly!

Swashbuckler wrote:

Well done HBS. Great to see the detailed story behind it all. The negative thoughts are something I have to battle in each race too. It's as much a mental battle as a physical one. As for the contorted face I wouldn't worry. You should see some of the photos of me on the final stretch in Lahinch and Adare. A sight to behold. Now I must go to Facebook and try to find your finishing photo. Haha

I've had a few strategies for the negative thoughts over the years and yesterdays was the best - just try and think of nothing other than what's happening right now - in other words say to meself just keep f#$kin running. As for the finisher pics - there's a few heads in the way thankfully!

diego_b

Excellent stuff, super running there M! Fine report as well, nicely done digging deep there at the end to get the time.

jake1970

When the pace group passed you it could have being so easy at that moment to give up but you dug deep and finished strong, that last mile was one of your quickest. Well done M, congrats on the PB. Great running!

Wubble Wubble

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Sunday 25/03

Race - Mallow 10 mile


Miles 5-7
6:29; 6:35; 6:40

The 2.5 miles along the N72 where tough. I had this section pegged as being one to get stuck into - it was nice and flat and straight enough. But we were running head on into a fairly stiff breeze, and I was starting to tire - well my legs were anyway. I just got on with it really. I started getting thoughts of slowing down or thinking things like "66 or 67 would still be a great result" - but in the end I managed to block that out and focus on running, not letting the guy ahead get any further away.
Miles 8-10

6:36; 6:26; 6:17.

Mile 8 was a struggle - I was settling and trying to do sums in my head. There was a small bit of a drag here which made the pace seem harder. By now my legs were hopping and my breathing had gotten less regular. I tried to gather a bit of composure - deep breaths, check form, use the arms for a bit. Again I tried to dispel any negative thoughts by just focusing on running right now in this instant. As we hit the 8 mile marker I could here the 65 minute pace group come up behind me and as they passed I gave in and fell in just behind them. I was probably only 100m ahead of them at any point, but I never look back so I felt like I'd left them a good bit behind. Anyway, I was glad of the motivation and of the support for the closing miles. There was a nice bit about half way through mile 9 where the road fell away for about 200m back to the river - a bit of relief from the effort and the chance to make up a few seconds. Then the push for home. It was a fairly straight run back into Mallow, but I was suffering and hanging onto the tail of the group. With 800m to go I was breathing heavily and pushing hard, and again settling for decent time. I tried to push on - but I was slowing down and the group were getting further away. I felt spent, my form was bad and I was breathing very heavily. Then we came in sight of the finish line. I guess I had about 150m to 200m to go. I could see the clock counting upwards towards 65 and I could hear the shouts of encouragement from the pacer. I thought I was spent, but obviously not. I was trying to get some deep breaths in but my lungs felt constricted and my chest muscles tight. So I pushed hard. I left out an involuntary roar (which seemed to open up the lungs a bit) and just took off towards the finish line as fast as I could go - my legs were on autopilot, I had tunnel vision and I'd say my face was contorted - so a bit morto, but it worked and I got in under 65 clock time. I doubled over trying to catch my breath and was fairly gasping for breath and empty reaching (backwash only!) - I had a time convincing the first aid guy I'd be alright in a minute or two which I was.
So After a drink, a stroll and a few chats I did a couple of easy miles along the banks of the Blackwater and back up through the town for some coffee, cake and sandwiches with the feeling of a job well done.

64:46 chip time. Previous 10 mile PB was Ballycotton 2016 - 68:53. Although Strava gave my 10 mile split from the Charleville half last year as 65:41, that's not official. So officially that was a 4:06 PB.
Also Strava say my 10k best effort was 39.59, which would have made that my first sub 40 10k if it were official.

Total miles for the day: 14.1
Weekly total: 41.8

Next up, the UCC 10k on April 8th. There's a fecker of a hill in the 3rd mile, so I don't think a goal of 39 minutes is sandbagging.

After that the 25k - looking at the last 2 years 1:44:00 would get me in the top ten. McMillan gives me an a time of 1:43:48 based on the 10 miler yesterday, but of course it all depends on who turns up on the day.

Brilliant report M. I really enjoyed the description of your battles with the enemy within. A lot of it is in our own heads, especially at this level!
A 4 minute PB for 10 miles is a fantastic achievement.
That 39 minute 10k is well within your compass. Best of luck.

Singer

Fab racing HBS and an enjoyable report to read.

hot buttered scones

Swashbuckler wrote: »

As for the contorted face I wouldn't worry. You should see some of the photos of me on the final stretch in Lahinch and Adare. A sight to behold.
Now I must go to Facebook and try to find your finishing photo. Haha

A picture speaks a thousand words:

hot buttered scones

Monday 26/03

Rest

Tuesday 27/03

6@8:13 - the usual pre work run. Feeling good and no real race hangover

Wednesday 28/03

6.2@8:03

Made a bit of a mess of the day. The plan was do the a session in the morning, then I had a few bits and pieces to take care of before a physio appointment in the afternoon. Things didn't workout as planned so I didn't get to run before the phsyio. My left quad was very tight so she did some work on it - including some dry needling and fairly strong massage. She also sort of told me off not for doing any s+c or enough foam rolling (I really should know better). I contacted coach regarding the wisdom of doing a session after a treatment, so the session was canned and I just did a few easy miles before work. The bright evenings meant I could take off over a few of the back roads around Ringaskiddy instead of the usual route (which is now getting a bit boring). I really enjoyed this, although I was a bit frustrated with myself that I'd had to skip a session due to poor planning on my part.

Thursday 29/03

6@8:23 - in between nights, feeling tired and quad still a bit tender from the needles, so what felt like a bit of a plod around. A "just keeping things ticking over" type of run. It's not been that long and I'm already missing the feeling of a getting a good session done.

Swashbuckler

hot buttered scones wrote: »

A picture speaks a thousand words:

I love to see that. Deadly.

hot buttered scones

Friday 30/03

6@8:03 over a rolling course. Easy appears to be getting a bit quicker, if I gauge it off effort.

Saturday 31/03

12x45s hills, 90s jog back recovery

Warmup: 3@7:42 - felt good, maybe a bit more than easy, but not too much.

Hills:

My only problem here was which hill to pick. Settled on one with an average grade of about 6%, which is probably one of the less steep one locally. The pace for the first rep was 5:51 which nearly killed me. I dialled it well back for the rest and ended up doing about 7:00 pace for the rest. First 10 s of each rep felt hard, the next 20s were really tough followed by 15s of just waiting for the pain to end. Then stop and catch my breath, walk for a bit and jog back down just in time to start again. And into the wind as well. These were properly hard.

Cooldown: 3@8:10

Total for the day: 9 miles

Sunday 01/04

12@8:03

Another "easy" one where I ran on effort and was surprised at the average pace afterwards.
Mile 1 was all downhill, 2,3,4,5 +10 had a headwind, 6,7,8,9 + 11 a tailwind and mile 12 was the climb back up the Summerhill to Dillons Cross, so the average pace is a fair representation of the effort. Felt great doing this although my legs feel tired starting out - it sort of felt like the last 12 miles of a longer run. I managed to get out and back before the weather turned nasty too. Followed by a day of eating and drinking a bit too much.

Weekly miles: 45.2

Monday 02/04

I was scheduled a rest day, but I had enquired as to whether or not I could do an very easy 30 minutes or so - I hate to waste a day off work with no running. As it turned out, we all got up late, and just dossed around the house all day. The weather was manky and I had no desire to go out in it, so a very good rest day was had.

Tuesday 03/04

Back to the grindstone - 6@8:20 pre work and a pretty nice morning it was too - barely a breeze for a change.