Going off script

Glico Man

I have a random question/thought that popped into my head today...

Has a wrestler ever gone off script, along with whoever he's facing, and changed the ending/winner of the match? And if so, what happened to them with management?

Imagine, if you will, Brock wasn't set to beat Undertaker at mania, but Taker mid-match hurts himself badly. During a knockdown he tells Brock he's injured, so he needs to finish the match quickly so he can get treatment. Brock hits Taker with a move and covers for the win.

The audience reaction is the same as what occurred, but backstage, I wonder what the mood would be like.

A Rogue Hobo

Not to my knowledge. At least not in any of the big feds anyways. Obviously audibles and whatnot have been called if someone is injured. Like Neville vs Jericho a few weeks back. Neville was scheduled to beat Jericho but broke his ankle early on in the match so off the cuff Jericho shoved the ref to be disqualified. Only problem was the ref didn't realise what Jericho was doing and took a few minutes to realise what was going on.

The closest thing I can think of is Jeff Hardy vs Sting for the World Title in TNA when Jeff was completely screwed up on drugs and should never have been in the ring in the first place so Sting pinned him by force.

Chain Smoker

Glico Man wrote: »

I have a random question/thought that popped into my head today...

Has a wrestler ever gone off script, along with whoever he's facing, and changed the ending/winner of the match? And if so, what happened to them with management?

Not exactly what you asked for as they don't change the winner, but they're actually in ring with the management so you get to see their response.

You can skip in about two minutes, I'd recommend watching the rest.

LeeJM

Few examples would be in WCW Scott Hall was supposed to squash Jericho but told Jericho to pin him and then beat up Jericho to get his heat back. In NJPW Riki Choshu was kicked in the face full force by somebody when applying the sharpshooter (cant remember who did it or why). Shawn Michaels at New Years Revolution when HHH tore his quad just took over the match and "went off script" and told Edge and Orton and the ref what to do.

Angron

Match for the Women's Championship at New Year's Revolution 2005. Lita during the match tore her ACL, so the two of them had to rush a finish and Trish won with the Chick Kick. I can't remember if Lita was supposed to retain or not in the original end.

There was also the match between Sandman and Cactus Jack where Jack battered Sandman on the head with (what he didn't realise at the time) what turned out to be a cast iron skillet. Sandman got concussed and actually forgot the ending of the match and kept not staying down for the count.

Glico Man

Appreciate the answers above lads. Its always interesting when they have to call audibles on the fly due to something unexpected happening and see how they improvise. Especially when injuries and the likes occur.

Ageyev

Glico Man wrote: »

I have a random question/thought that popped into my head today...

Has a wrestler ever gone off script, along with whoever he's facing, and changed the ending/winner of the match? And if so, what happened to them with management?

Imagine, if you will, Brock wasn't set to beat Undertaker at mania, but Taker mid-match hurts himself badly. During a knockdown he tells Brock he's injured, so he needs to finish the match quickly so he can get treatment. Brock hits Taker with a move and covers for the win.

The audience reaction is the same as what occurred, but backstage, I wonder what the mood would be like.

There's been loads of screw-ups such as the WrestleMania 2000 Hardcore Battle Royal - the finish was screwed in an overly complicated match that had a time limit. Bob Holly won the match but he wasn't booked to win it so they went with it on the fly.

Perry Saturn legit started beating someone up mid-matcb.

Thee are videos like the one above of when worked matches turn into shoots or someone stops cooperating.

Hulk Hogan undermined Warrior's WrestleMnia 6 win by jumping straight up after the 3 count and then hogging the spotlight afterwards.

Randy Orton in 2008 fractured his collar bone in a last man standing match with Triple H, they came up with a finish on the spot.

Daniel Bryan I think was to beat Randy Orton in a Raw match in 2013 but got injured and Triple H stopped the match from guerilla position in the back.

The referee in the Undertaker v Lesnar match didn't know the finish - he was told to call it as a shoot. So he only found out that that was the finish like everyone else when he counted the pinfall. The Internet was full of questions about whether it was a botch.


In the old NWA days the championing had to have legit grappling skills lest someone tried to orchestrate a screwjob which I believe happened a number of times.

Angron

Actually, on the legit beating up someone in matches two stand out.

Public Enemy vs The Acolytes, Public Enemy were not liked backstage cause they'd gone to WCW over WWF, and the Acolytes were rather unnecessarily stiff, some saying they were sandbagging and shooting on PE.

Another one was JBL and Blue Meanie. There was a big brawl in the ring at one of the One Night Stand shows, and JBL starting legitimately attacking Meanie. IIRC it lead to a match between the two on Smackdown where Steven Richards (a friend of Meanie) got revenge by laying into JBL harder than necessary with a chair shot to the head.

Could probably add Hardcore Holly against anyone he deemed a rookie.

CSF

Angron wrote: »

Actually, on the legit beating up someone in matches two stand out.

Public Enemy vs The Acolytes, Public Enemy were not liked backstage cause they'd gone to WCW over WWF, and the Acolytes were rather unnecessarily stiff, some saying they were sandbagging and shooting on PE.

Another one was JBL and Blue Meanie. There was a big brawl in the ring at one of the One Night Stand shows, and JBL starting legitimately attacking Meanie. IIRC it lead to a match between the two on Smackdown where Steven Richards (a friend of Meanie) got revenge by laying into JBL harder than necessary with a chair shot to the head.

Could probably add Hardcore Holly against anyone he deemed a rookie.

Yeah everything I've read suggests those 2 were awful bullies.

CastorTroy

Wasn't there a tag match where someone decided to no sell Hogan's leg drop. Hogan hit the leg drop and went for the pin. But clearly Flair(as Hogan's other opponent) knew he was planning on kicking out so acted as a distraction on the apron so Hogan got up at 2 to go after him. And just as Hogan got up, you could see his opponent on the ground get his shoulder up.

Agent Coulson

Joey Styles knocking the **** out of JBL.

Stereomaniac

Joey Styles beat up JBL, what was that? I read in lots of places that JBL was a hard case backstage.

Palo Alto

Certainly Holly put across himself as misunderstood on Colt's podcast, not sure he was that rough with folks, although he injured Punk's eye quite badly.

His book is meant to be quite good.

LeeJM

Stereomaniac wrote: »

Joey Styles beat up JBL, what was that? I read in lots of places that JBL was a hard case backstage.

Joey had been getting sh*t from JBL for ages and one day had enough of it and KO'd Big Bad John with one punch

Loughc

Palo Alto wrote: »

His book is meant to be quite good.

Bob holly's book is really good. A really easy read.

Mick Murdock

Loughc wrote: »

Bob holly's book is really good. A really easy read.

It is excellent. Best wrestling book I've read to date because it's from a time I love. To a point I understand that guys need to learn what it takes to take a beating every night but they usually come across like a bunch of grown up bullies and insecure **** at the same time.

He's also extremely stupid from interviews I've heard.

Essential reading for an AE fan though.

Stereomaniac

LeeJM wrote: »

Joey had been getting sh*t from JBL for ages and one day had enough of it and KO'd Big Bad John with one punch

Come to think of it I did hear that somewhere before. But who actually put that story out there, I wonder. Was it something that was reported by Dave Meltzer or someone like that at the time or did a talent actually tell the story in an interview? I'm sure some version of it did happen but a one punch knockout is crazy.

Angron

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW6_0H44aQw

Yup, I'm sure Matt was just misunderstanding Holly beating the absolute hell out of him.

leggo

Bit awkward Bill DeMott being the guy comforting the kid who got bullied in hindsight...

Stereomaniac

Those guys are from a different era. Wrestling is probably more accessible nowadays though.

Moneymaker

Puder getting hazed in the 05 Royal Rumble stands out to me too.

Holly, Benoit and Eddie chopped the absolute **** out of him and I think it was Benoit suplexed him right on his head.

Stereomaniac

See that's pretty much assault if someone knowingly engages in that kind of carry on. Professional wrestling isn't sanctioned as a sport anymore so guys should face legal action then.

Turtyturd

What's the PG equivalent?

Being slapped on the chest by the Big Show?

Fairly sure I remember AJ getting his during the Rumble.

CSF

Renee Dupree was another Bob Holly victim according to himself.

J. Marston

Stereomaniac wrote: »

See that's pretty much assault if someone knowingly engages in that kind of carry on. Professional wrestling isn't sanctioned as a sport anymore so guys should face legal action then.

Didn't Puder legit try to break Angle's arm though? No harm in him getting some payback for that.

LeeJM

Puder was the last guy I think that the vets felt needed to "pay his dues" and be put in his place following the Kurt Angle incident on SmackDown. Also didnt really help himself that he apparently had an awful attitude.

Riddle101

You know I often heard stories a wrestlers like Bob Holly and Bradshaw being bullies, and then they try to justify it as paying your dues and trying to smarten rookies to the business, but I wonder what would happen if a wrestler actually fights back. Imagine what things would be like if Bob Holly tried to bully someone like Wade Barrett who was a bare-knuckle boxer or Jack Swagger who was an amateur wrestler. How do they deal with guys who could defend themselves and fight back?

CSF

Riddle101 wrote: »

You know I often heard stories a wrestlers like Bob Holly and Bradshaw being bullies, and then they try to justify it as paying your dues and trying to smarten rookies to the business, but I wonder what would happen if a wrestler actually fights back. Imagine what things would be like if Bob Holly tried to bully someone like Wade Barrett who was a bare-knuckle boxer or Jack Swagger who was an amateur wrestler. How do they deal with guys who could defend themselves and fight back?

They don't. Those guys get to be part of the pack. They target people who they perceive to be soft.

leggo

Riddle101 wrote: »

You know I often heard stories a wrestlers like Bob Holly and Bradshaw being bullies, and then they try to justify it as paying your dues and trying to smarten rookies to the business, but I wonder what would happen if a wrestler actually fights back. Imagine what things would be like if Bob Holly tried to bully someone like Wade Barrett who was a bare-knuckle boxer or Jack Swagger who was an amateur wrestler. How do they deal with guys who could defend themselves and fight back?

That's how you should handle it. Capotelli wouldn't have got respect for taking a beating and shaking Bob Holly's hand. I mean everyone paid lip service to him publicly because the story blew up, but what happened to him after that? (And yeah I know his life took a tragic turn, I'm not having a go just stating fact)

If someone takes liberties, hit them twice as hard back and, even if you take a beating, they won't do it again because they'll know they'll have a full-on fight next time. Schoolyard rules, basically (and sadly).

gimmick

Re Puder and Angle. It was only very quick thinking by the ref by counting Puder fast helped save the embarrassment of Kurt tapping as a shoot.

Good topic. I'm offline for a few days but will split it when I can or if Jay/BH could do the honours?

Nody

Surprised no one brought up TNA Victory Road 2011 - Sting vs Jeff Hardy yet. Not sure if Sting was suppose to go over or not but it was definitely not going as per original script...

Itssoeasy

Moneymaker wrote: »

Puder getting hazed in the 05 Royal Rumble stands out to me too.

Holly, Benoit and Eddie chopped the absolute **** out of him and I think it was Benoit suplexed him right on his head.

I just watched it there as I dont remember it. Holy christ they kicked the **** out of him.

dirkmeister

Brawl for All came about do to JBL mouthing off that he could beat any man in a bar fight.

Bart Gunn proceeded to KO the man himself.

B.A._Baracus

Wasn't Taz meant to win the intercontinental championship years ago on raw. But got injured during the match and then the finish got changed. I do believe he was wrestling benoit.

LeeJM

dirkmeister wrote: »

Brawl for All came about do to JBL mouthing off that he could beat any man in a bar fight.

Bart Gunn proceeded to KO the man himself.

I thought Brawl for All was brought in as a way to launch Dr. Death as a challenger to Stone Cold as Doc had a legit tough guy rep and they wanted a way to build him up as a threat to SCSA.

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Wasn't Taz meant to win the intercontinental championship years ago on raw. But got injured during the match and then the finish got changed. I do believe he was wrestling benoit.

Never heard that before. Think Taz would have finished the match to whatever the scheduled finish was no matter the injury as he was always out to prove his toughness

B.A._Baracus

LeeJM wrote: »

Never heard that before. Think Taz would have finished the match to whatever the scheduled finish was no matter the injury as he was always out to prove his toughness

Who knows if it's indeed true. It's what powerslam magazine said years ago.

sky88

Didn't regal go off script on goldberg on nitro

Itssoeasy

sky88 wrote: »

Didn't regal go off script on goldberg on nitro

The story is that regal was told to go out there and have a six minute match with Goldberg but he apparently was a bit stiff and he got heat for it.

Itssoeasy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unsPDW4I3tc

Stereomaniac

J. Marston wrote: »

Didn't Puder legit try to break Angle's arm though? No harm in him getting some payback for that.

Well, he was getting the better of him in the ring and nearly made him tap I believe.

Ageyev

Stereomaniac wrote: »

See that's pretty much assault if someone knowingly engages in that kind of carry on. Professional wrestling isn't sanctioned as a sport anymore so guys should face legal action then.

I can't think of a single successful prosecution for assault during a wrestling match. There might be one but can't think of one.

Stereomaniac

The Rockers paralyzed a guy and he got a pay out. The culture needs to change re. assault though.

Ageyev

Stereomaniac wrote: »

The Rockers paralyzed a guy and he got a pay out. The culture needs to change re. assault though.

I should've clarified that when read "should face legal action" I thought criminal charges. There was the John Stossel and Richard Belzer incidents which cost WWE money I believe but no criminal prosecutions afaik.

There was the Mike Levy incident where the cops involved but again, no prosecution for assault.

(Fwiw, this is grim stuff to be thinking and talking about...)

Itssoeasy

Ageyev wrote: »

I should've clarified that when read "should face legal action" I thought criminal charges. There was the John Stossel and Richard Belzer incidents which cost WWE money I believe but no criminal prosecutions afaik.

There was the Mike Levy incident where the cops involved but again, no prosecution for assault.

(Fwiw, this is grim stuff to be thinking and talking about...)

It is grim but this is the not so clean part of pro wrestling in the past. It was a horrible cut throat business. It was every man for himself in some places.

LeeJM

In any business where money, especially the amount of money that can be in wrestling, is up for grabs you are gonna get some grim incidents. Look no further than the whole Nancy Kerrigan incident and that was figure skating FFS. And also if you wanna talk about grim in the wrestling industry just look at the deaths in the Japanese Dojos in the 80's and 90's

gimmick

Actually the Mass Transit incident in ECW one of the best examples. New Jack being the dick he was/is took major liberties and almost killed some kid who lied about his age and ability.

Itssoeasy

gimmick wrote: »

Actually the Mass Transit incident in ECW one of the best examples. New Jack being the dick he was/is took major liberties and almost killed some kid who lied about his age and ability.

Yeah new jack was a dick but that kid and his father didn't help themselves. I mean he willingly gave new jack a razor blade and asked him to cut him. what the hell ?

mjavi

in recent memory (what I was able to watch anyway) Angle vs Puder, Neville injury. VKM injuring both his quads in RR, Jeff Hardy so high in the sky vs Sting.

Grantland ran a series of these just search for Maskman's wrestling shoots. Good read.

Imnotthehulk

There was a match between John Tenta (Earthquake and Golga in WWE) and Koji Kitao, a japanese wrestler.

In work so can't see the full fight at the moment to confirm this, but essentially they were due to wrestle a match, but Kitao decided not to engage with Tenta. So there was a lot of standing around and looking at each other, every time Earthquake tried to (pro) wrestle him, Kitao would no sell the moves, and I think he tried some shoot moves on Tenta too. Eventually Kitao was disqualified, at which point he grabs a mic and starts yelling about Pro Wrestling being fake.

Previously Kitao had been a legit sumo wrestler, rising to the rank of Yokozuna (highest rank in sumo) before being expelled from Sumo, and I think had been kicked out of NJPW as well.

CastorTroy

Ageyev wrote: »

I should've clarified that when read "should face legal action" I thought criminal charges.

Sure we see people get arrested frequently on Raw and Smackdown.

gerrybbadd

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yeah new jack was a dick but that kid and his father didn't help themselves. I mean he willingly gave new jack a razor blade and asked him to cut him. what the hell ?

I heard it was a scalpel he went at him with. Cut two arteries in his forehead.

New Jack is quite possibly the biggest príck i have ever heard of