N22 - Macroom to Ovens [postponed until post 2027]

marno21

This will be a 'gap' between the Ballincollig bypass & the Macroom/Ballyvourney bypass when the later will be finished in the next few years. It was planned as HQDC before being suspended and is phase II of the Ballyvourney - Ovens overall agenda.

Mention of it here: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/push-for-macroom-bypass-green-light-335588.html

Chris_5339762

Its a gap but is mostly Wide S2 between the end of the Ballincollig Bypass and where the Macroom - Ballyvourney scheme will begin. Its rare to get slowed down along that section, TBH.

There are a couple of junctions along the route and a few km of narrow road just south of Macroom but I think this is quite rightly a fair bit down the priority list.

AugustusMinimus

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Its a gap but is mostly Wide S2 between the end of the Ballincollig Bypass and where the Macroom - Ballyvourney scheme will begin. Its rare to get slowed down along that section, TBH.

There are a couple of junctions along the route and a few km of narrow road just south of Macroom but I think this is quite rightly a fair bit down the priority list.

Ovens to Lissarda is wide S2 and is OK for the moment.

Lissarda to Macroom as you say isn't as good. I'd go further and say parts are just as bad as Macroom to Ballyvourney and resemble the N20 south of Buttevant.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Ovens to Lissarda is wide S2 and is OK for the moment.

Lissarda to Macroom as you say isn't as good. I'd go further and say parts are just as bad as Macroom to Ballyvourney and resemble the N20 south of Buttevant.

The area around Coolcower, is terrible especially around the 2 bridges. It's a pity it's not part of the Macroom/Ballyvourney scheme.

hans aus dtschl

If there was even a scheme to widen the road between the two bridges it'd be a big improvement.
East of the bridges isn't perfect, but also isn't too bad.

marno21

The section of road between Lissarda and the Macroom bypass that this scheme will replace is now down to 80km/h due to safety concerns. Hopefully a few more points in its favour.

The N22 itself along here will get a lot busier down the road firstly when the Macroom bypass opens and secondly if the Killarney bypass is added to the National Development Plan. A lot of Tralee-Cork traffic avoids the N22 due to how slow it is and instead takes the R577 via Castleisland and Ballydesmond/Boherbue.

Assuming both schemes are done, it'll be:

Tralee-Farranfore - WS2, ok for the minute and could be retrospectively 2+2'd. Tralee-Farranfore is a quieter section of the N22.
Farranfore-Killarney East - 2+2, this is a very busy and congested stretch at present and the 2+2 can't come quick enough especially around Killarney
Killarney East-Ballyvourney - part WS2 part WS3, this is ok for now but will see traffic volumes increase as the N22 improves.
Ballyvourney-Macroom East - 2+2, don't need to say much here.

This leaves the busiest part of the N22, between Macroom and Ovens as the worst section of the route, with part of it legacy S2 and part reduced S2 with narrow shoulders. There are also 3 urban stretches with reduced speed limits requiring bypassing. The end of the Ballincollig bypass westbound is also a choke point and there are safety issues after it ends due to the volume of traffic clumping up with frequent turning traffic and junctions.

Having 100km/h DC from Ballyvourney to Macroom and 120km/h motorway from Macroom to the soon to be M40 would be a proper first class route for the region.

Chris_5339762

Agreed, but with this the only gap between bits of roads, my vote anyway would be to do Midleton - Youghal instead as the Midleton roundabout, Castlemartyr and Killeagh are bad bottlenecks and the traffic on the road is way heavier.

marno21

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Agreed, but with this the only gap between bits of roads, my vote anyway would be to do Midleton - Youghal instead as the Midleton roundabout, Castlemartyr and Killeagh are bad bottlenecks and the traffic on the road is way heavier.

Thankfully we're not alone in this view.

https://twitter.com/cooper_m/status/963204478609608705

I agree with you. Cork is big enough now that it deserves a functional radial road network and M20, M22, M25, M28 and M71 stretches are required to complement the M8. When you see what cities like Galway and Waterford have now and what they will have when the NDP is implemented it makes Cork look worse.

Roadrunner99

Unfortunately I don't think we'll see the macroom to ovens part of the road done for a good few years yet. Infairness it's not the worst road it's from 4 mile bridge back to the county bounds is the worst part of it tbh it's a shocking road one of the worst in the county with the amount of traffic on it.

AugustusMinimus

Roadrunner99 wrote: »

Unfortunately I don't think we'll see the macroom to ovens part of the road done for a good few years yet. Infairness it's not the worst road it's from 4 mile bridge back to the county bounds is the worst part of it tbh it's a shocking road one of the worst in the county with the amount of traffic on it.

Macroom -Ovens still badly needs to be done though. It’s an appalling piece of road given the traffic it carries.

Roadrunner99

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Macroom -Ovens still badly needs to be done though. It’s an appalling piece of road given the traffic it carries.

Couldn't agree more but once the macroom bypass is done now in a few years this should put pressure on getting the ovens bypass up and running with the extra traffic that will be coming on to it.

Roadrunner99

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Macroom -Ovens still badly needs to be done though. It’s an appalling piece of road given the traffic it carries.

Couldn't agree more but once the macroom bypass is done now in a few years this should put pressure on getting the ovens bypass up and running with the extra traffic that will be coming on to it.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Macroom -Ovens still badly needs to be done though. It’s an appalling piece of road given the traffic it carries.

Exactly. It was recommended for dualling as far as the Coachford junction in the 1998 Road Needs Study, when the N6 west of Ballinasloe and the N9 south of Kilcullen were advised to become wide singles.

As things stand, initial planning on the N22 Ovens-Macroom section will not begin until 2028. Given TII's 8-13 years for total progression of major schemes assuming no delays it'll open between 2036 and 2041. So between 38 and 43 years after it was advised in a policy document that the N22 between Ballincollig and Macroom West should be done within 10 years.

For reference, here is the volume:capacity for the N22 in 2016. The entire N22 from Ovens to Ballyvourney is operating above 120% capacity bar a few km near Lissarda

AugustusMinimus

Obviously a lot of activity in the Macroom bypass thread.

I’m just wondering if anyone has s map showing the proposed route of this scheme or at least how it will tie into the end of the Macroom bypass.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Obviously a lot of activity in the Macroom bypass thread.

I’m just wondering if anyone has s map showing the proposed route of this scheme or at least how it will tie into the end of the Macroom bypass.

http://map.geohive.ie/

Under Data Catalogue, go Nature & Environment --> Environment, Conservation & Heritage --> Route Protection Corridors, Cork

That was the 2002 route afaik. The route in the 2032 project may change.

marno21

Confirmation from Shane Ross last week that this has been 100% ****canned and won't move for some time.

The N22 Ovens to Macroom major scheme, which links the N22 Ballincollig Bypass to the N22 Ballyvourney to Macroom scheme, is a legacy project proposal. This scheme was suspended some time ago, at which time it had been developed to the stage of route selection. This scheme remains suspended and has not been identified in the NDP among the projects to be progressed. There are, therefore, no current plans to progress the planning and design of this project.

marno21

Aindreas Moynihan making racket about the lack of work being done on the N22 between Macroom and Ovens

https://www.southernstar.ie/news/gaeltacht-in-muscrai-is-losing-out-on-jobs-says-td-4199984

There is now severe congestion sporadically on the route at peak times due to sheer volume of traffic heading to Cork. When it becomes a junction riddled single carriageway sandwiched between two grade separated dual carriageways the safety record of the road will drop even further.

steeler j

marno21 wrote: »

Aindreas Moynihan making racket about the lack of work being done on the N22 between Macroom and Ovens

https://www.southernstar.ie/news/gaeltacht-in-muscrai-is-losing-out-on-jobs-says-td-4199984

There is now severe congestion sporadically on the route at peak times due to sheer volume of traffic heading to Cork. When it becomes a junction riddled single carriageway sandwiched between two grade separated dual carriageways the safety record of the road will drop even further.

I was down that way last June or July and I'm supposed to be going down there in a few weeks and the back up coming into dual carriageway can be very bad and the turn off at nurtica isn't great ,that's where I turn off and I don't like it

Truckermal

marno21 wrote: »

Aindreas Moynihan making racket about the lack of work being done on the N22 between Macroom and Ovens

https://www.southernstar.ie/news/gaeltacht-in-muscrai-is-losing-out-on-jobs-says-td-4199984

There is now severe congestion sporadically on the route at peak times due to sheer volume of traffic heading to Cork. When it becomes a junction riddled single carriageway sandwiched between two grade separated dual carriageways the safety record of the road will drop even further.

Maybe that will change now considering Ross has the Goose cooked.

Cork Trucker

Truckermal wrote: »

Maybe that will change now considering Ross has the Goose cooked.

Not if the Greens get in, they are so cuckoo they will halt the Macroom Bypass as well as any future plans for this

Cookiemunster

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Not if the Greens get in, they are so cuckoo they will halt the Macroom Bypass as well as any future plans for this

Before the election the Greens were looking like king makers. The way the results went, they're now just one of the possible coalition options.

The most likely coalition (amazingly) is FF and SF who would be just shy of 80, meaning Labour and/or the SDs would get them over the line. Both FF and SF say they will finish the motorway network in their manifestos.

Also Ryan has already admitted that no project that already has contracts signed can be stopped.

Cork Trucker

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Before the election the Greens were looking like king makers. The way the results went, they're now just one of the possible coalition options.

The most likely coalition (amazingly) is FF and SF who would be just shy of 80, meaning Labour and/or the SDs would get them over the line. Both FF and SF say they will finish the motorway network in their manifestos.

Also Ryan has already admitted that no project that already has contracts signed can be stopped.

I don’t see SF willing to accept a junior role in any coalition based in them getting the highest vote percentage, if they do that and FF are the major party then they’ll go down the same road as the PD/LAB parties.

What Ryan night say is true, but you can bet your bottom dollar he’d stop anything new coming in stream.

Sorry to him but the climate charge lecturing isn’t resonating with the electorate, they would do untold damage if Ryan leads them into government. I never have nor will I ever vote green

Cookiemunster

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I don’t see SF willing to accept a junior role in any coalition based in them getting the highest vote percentage, if they do that and FF are the major party then they’ll go down the same road as the PD/LAB parties.

What Ryan night say is true, but you can bet your bottom dollar he’d stop anything new coming in stream.

Sorry to him but the climate charge lecturing isn’t resonating with the electorate, they would do untold damage if Ryan leads them into government. I never have nor will I ever vote green

They Greens are unlikely to be in any government with SF if they stick to their red lines as they claim they're going to do. SF are anti carbon tax and pro motorway. They definitely won't bend to the Greens on any tax increases. I don't think the Greens will be in government without a major back down.

actuar90

I haven't seen anything recent on this. Anyone have any updates?

marno21

actuar90 wrote: »

I haven't seen anything recent on this. Anyone have any updates?

None at all. It remains mothballed.

There is a review of the NDP in early 2021 and this just about missed out the last time around so hopefully it’ll make it this time.

Absolute headache of a road. Whatever about Macroom this stretch is painful from one end to the other unlike the smaller but more severe Macroom. When the Macroom section is done too it’ll be sandwiched in between two dual carriageways. Definitely needs to be put back on the table

BelfastVanMan

marno21 wrote: »

None at all. It remains mothballed.

There is a review of the NDP in early 2021 and this just about missed out the last time around so hopefully it’ll make it this time.

Absolute headache of a road. Whatever about Macroom this stretch is painful from one end to the other unlike the smaller but more severe Macroom. When the Macroom section is done too it’ll be sandwiched in between two dual carriageways. Definitely needs to be put back on the table

Agreed, it was a perfectly good road 30 or 40 years ago, but as you say, it will be a complete choke point when the current DC is finished.

marno21

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40202279.html

Michael Creed today correctly stating that the Macroom-Ovens scheme is another important piece of the puzzle. Especially with the bucket of shíte between Macroom and Lissarda

Would be wonderful to see it included in the 2021 NDP.

KrisW1001

With Farranfore-Killarney on the list already, this is the only part of N22 that's left to do. I do think the Kerry project is more urgent (N22 in Cork is under capacity, but it's safe, unlike the Kerry stretch), but this needs to follow quickly.

Chris_5339762

Its well over capacity, I'd say. But it is, incredibly, REASONABLY safe compared with other similarly highly trafficked single carriageway routes.

That said, it is a big gap now in the network and should be sorted.

But after Midleton - Youghal bypass.

KrisW1001

Apologies, of course I meant to write "over capacity" there. I can't remember the last time I drove that road without being stuck in a platoon of at least ten cars at some stage. I think it's this platooning that makes it safer. If the traffic was just a little lighter, light enough for frustrated drivers to take a chance on a risky overtake (and they're nearly all risky on this route), there would be more accidents, I think.

Midleton-Youghal? It's a big job, and the western end of it will be plagued by objections. To be honest, I'd be happy with a Castlemartyr bypass for now - even a relief road would help (and Castlemartyr will probably need a relief road anyway, regardless of the national network). Killeagh is nowhere near as congested, and from there to Youghal is usually free-moving.

marno21

[QUOTE]The N22 Macroom to Ballincollig improvement scheme was suspended in the period 2006-2009 due to funding constraints and it remains suspended. It has not been identified as a project for progression under the revised National Development Plan to 2030. Given the competing demands on funding, it is unlikely that TII will be in a position to progress this project in the near future. However, TII have informed me that they recently approved funding to Cork County Council for a surfacing contract on the N22 at Coolcour, east of Macroom. A contractor has been appointed by the local authority and I understand that works will be completed this year.

In addition, there are a number of major new road projects under construction in the Cork area which should help reduce traffic congestion, as follows.

N22 Ballyvourney to Macroom

The N22 Ballyvourney to Macroom project consists of the construction of a 22km dual carriageway from Ballyvourney to Macroom, comprising a bypass of Macroom Town and the villages of Ballyvourney and Ballymakeera, at an estimated cost of €280 million. Works are approximately midway through construction with the dual carriageway expected to open by 2024.

By reducing traffic volumes on the existing N22 by approximately 12,000 vehicles per day, this project will improve journey times and allow for safer and more reliable road journeys. With traffic redirected to the new bypass, existing roads may be developed to facilitate better cycling and walking routes in the town of Macroom.

M8/N40/N25 Dunkettle Interchange Upgrade

The Dunkettle Interchange is undergoing a major upgrade to a free-flowing junction at an estimated cost of €216 million. This will include a new interchange for local traffic movements. This upgrade will facilitate economic growth and result in improved journey times for road users and quality of life benefits for residents of Cork. It is expected the new interchange will be in operation by the end of 2024.[/QUOTE]

Dead and buried.

TII identified this stretch as priority for safety reasons in 2018 (along with the rest of the route to Farranfore, the N20, the N4 between Mullingar and Longford, and the N2 North of Ardee). All four routes are busy interurban routes with heavy traffic, too many access points, chronic junctions and very poro safety records. Once the Macroom/Baile Bhurine section is complete, expect safety to get worse along here. It won't be until several people are killed on the route that the issue will be revisited. Very disappointing.

Chris_5339762

True, but I wonder how many people will hang back a little now... I will certainly hang back going westbound along the Ovens section before the reservoirs, knowing I'll be able to get past the doddering KY reg caravan trailing the 40 foot lorry once I get to Macroom. At the moment that sort of convoy induces panic knowing its at least 30 - 40 minutes until they can be overtaken close to the Kerry border.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126570#Comment_118126570

Very good point, but there will also be an increase in traffic using the route as the N22 route becomes appealing vs other routes (Tralee-Cork via Mallow becomes less appealing for one). The extra traffic may well undo any deliberate attempts by drivers to be safer.

Then there’s the sheer volume of junctions which will be even more unsafe on a busy road (the 2 at Crookstown, traffic crossing Aherla-Farran etc) and the mess of road between Crookstown and Coolcour.

And let’s not forget the terminus heading west at Ballincollig which long term is another safety issue.

The 24km in question here is a route which never gets a whole pile of attention but the reasons for it needing attention are quite clear. We’ll have to wait and see.

Pete_Cavan

I'd say the problem here is the same as the Lakeview RAB, the solution is going to piss off some people and is politically unattractive. Eventually the solution for the eastern part around Ovens could be something similar to N25 Carrigtwohill - Midleton, new N road provided along the southern side of the existing road and local road along the northern side. Over the years some houses on the southern side might become abandoned, making the process easier.

deedeedee24

Anyone know where I can find what the proposed route for N22 Macroom to Ovens was before it was suspended?

munchkin_utd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328279#Comment_120328279

go to the cork planning maps:

https://corkcoco.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html

and on the layers options find the one for route protection corridor and you'll see where the road is planned.

KrisW1001

Here’s the preferred corridor:

deedeedee24

That was great help! Thanks so much. Got exactly what I needed.

Chris_5339762

If they did suddenly decide to build this, they'd have to start all over again - but I don't think the "new" route would be much different from that proposed. Possibly slightly more online to the old road than this, at a guess.

Junctions at Farran and Crookstown possibly.

yerwanthere123

Looking forward to driving on this sometime around 2050!

marno21

Deputy Brendan Griffin (Fine Gael-Kerry): I want to bring up the issue of the N22 Cork to Kerry road. The Tánaiste was there when he was Taoiseach, just before Christmas, to open the Macroom bypass, which is fantastic infrastructure. The remaining section between Ballyvourney and Macroom should open in the not-too-distant future. I want to ask about the section from Macroom to Ovens and place it firmly on the agenda because that remaining section of the N22, as the Tánaiste knows, is substandard and for modern purposes it requires an upgrade. I know it will not be ready for Saturday week to bring us up to Páirc Uí Chaoimh any bit quicker for the match against Cork but it is important for the future socioeconomic development of the south west that this road would be on the agenda for an upgrade. I ask the Tánaiste if it could be prioritised.

Deputy Micheál Martin (Fianna Fáil-Cork South Central): I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. What struck me when I was opening the Macroom bypass was the number of Kerry Deputies who arrived. That brought home to me the desire of Kerry Deputies and Kerry people to get closer to Cork and to have greater access to Cork. When the Deputy arrives in two weeks' time, he will see that we have lovely active greenways and a lovely park developed adjacent to Páirc Uí Chaoimh to facilitate Kerry supporters with picnics. In deference to my colleague, Deputy Eamon Ryan, you do not need to drive right into Páirc Uí Chaoimh anymore. You can park on the outskirts and walk in and it is pleasant terrain and a pleasant journey in what is now a beautiful landscape and which is evidence of the Government's commitment to providing improved amenities and so on.

I am committed to the extension of the road. We should finish the job because what came across forcefully with the Ballyvourney bypass was safety and what safety means for people on that road.

Now so.

KrisW1001

Martin made two points I agree with fully, there: the idea that everyone has a right to drive their car right into the city centre needs to end, and the N22 Ovens-Macroom road needs to be built.

Chris_5339762

I can hear the old "Save the Lee Valley" group that got this canned the last time around pre-emptively foaming at the mouth.

EnzoScifo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678034#Comment_120678034

The Kerry parish pump vs the Cork North West parish pump, a match for the ages!

marno21

Now that the Baile Bhuirne/Macroom section is practically complete, the politicians of Kerry and Cork will move their focus eastwards to the section just east of Macroom. This particular section between Coolcower and Crookstown/R590 junction now stands out as being a particularly rubbish stretch of road.

Whilst this scheme, a whole 24km of road, identified as requiring dual carriageway along half its length was identified in the 1998 Roads Need Study, a report which advised that sections of the N6, N7, N8 and N9 would be sufficient with wide single carriageway upgrades, is too ambitious to complete at present, perhaps it may be meritorious to split the scheme and advance the western section. So, the N22 Macroom-Crookstown project

• 9-11km of Type 1/2 dual carriageway with NO junctions bar a junction at the eastern terminus/close to it
• Removal of the two bridges, the dirty S2 between them, the GP wood junction, Lissarda
• Potential to grade separate the R585, R590 and R619 junctions
• Only major structure would be a Lee crossing at Coolcower.

We can leave the lethal western terminus of the Ballincollig bypass and the 14km of road through flat land that's over capacity for a high speed road riddled with junctions and accesses for another day.

Chris_5339762

Nah, I think splitting it would mean say, 7 years to put the western section through planning and getting it started, and then another 7 for the eastern.

Its 24km, thats just about right for a scheme. And I'd say any analysis would not want a gap of say, 10km between two bits of dual carriageway.

The New Ross to Waterford section of the N25 is precisely this and is an accident magnet - which has been delayed and suspended due to you-know-who.

Oddly enough the Macroom to Ovens scheme, which is massively overcapacity, does seem to have very few or barely any accidents on it.

marno21

Its 24km, thats just about right for a scheme. And I'd say any analysis would not want a gap of say, 10km between two bits of dual carriageway.

Yes, but unfortunately analysis and experts are in the back seat for this particular journey, as we have observed recently.

Oddly enough the Macroom to Ovens scheme, which is massively overcapacity, does seem to have very few or barely any accidents on it.

I strongly suspect there to be an increase of traffic on this section post October when the N22 BBM scheme opens, as traffic that previously took other routes will start using the N22. If Killarney is bypassed before this gets going, the N22 will also attract traffic avoiding Killarney. This will likely degrade the safety performance of the road further.

tobyflenderson

I would also point out that many residents of villages such as Aherla, Cloughduv, Crookstown and as far west as Kilmurry actually use the L2216, a back road of fairly poor quality in places running parallel to the N22.

A lot of drivers from West and South Cork coming up through Beal na Bláth will avoid the N22 altogether.This is due to the fact that getting on the N22 at peak times is well nigh impossible with Cork-bound traffic so they have no alternative.

The L2216 must be beyond capacity at this point and will only get worse given the housing developments currently on going along its route.

This hopefully will push this scheme along.

Baldilocks

Was stuck behind a lovely lady doing 60kph from Macroom to Ballincollig bypass this evening........ me and many, many other cars...

this glaring omission needs to be resolved asap

kil

I live in the area and commute east bound daily. The past few mornings the traffic has been backing on the N22 so I've driven through Aherla and Killumney. Both the N22 and the L2216 have traffic counting strips currently, be interesting to see what the numbers are like.

hans aus dtschl

Lots of counting going on at the moment whatever is going on