Are people more or less happy than the preceding generations?

ScumLord

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I would say that people of the past in general more readily accepted their lot than people of today and just wanted to keep their heads above water.

I don't know, I think most people are like that now. It's all part of the human experience. As a teenager you think anything is possible, have loads of ambitions. Then you reach middle age and realise it's going to take a load of work so don't bother and are just happy making enough to stay at a comfortable standard of living.

r93kaey5p2izun

ScumLord wrote: »

Which is ironic seeing as housing and job security just didn't exist in the past. At any point you could lose your job or your house and there would have been zero you could do about it, if your boss decided to take he's bad mood out on your that day, you'd just have to live with it. If your landlord decided to raise your rent 200% or kick you out because he liked someone better, he could. Living in built up towns and cities means housing is always going to be an issue in one way or another. The fact Ireland can put roofs over the heads of just about everyone in the country whether they can afford it or not is a huge improvement, it's probably a huge improvement on how it was when the state stated less than a hundred years ago.

And yet, when I look back at my parents, grandparents and great grandparents and the parents and grandparents of everyone I know, they nearly all, with just one or two exceptions, had jobs for life or maybe two long term jobs with an interruption of unemployment during a big recession. They also all managed to buy their own home. These people mostly left school at 12/13 with little education and few ever trained in any trade or skilled area.

Now I see everyone with degrees, masters, phds in skilled areas struggling to get secure work and even those who have and who are promoted are still struggling with rent.

I know in theory worker's rights and protections have improved but it just doesn't seem to have translated into any improvement in security for anyone around me.

timthumbni

FizzleSticks wrote: »

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I think you are already taking life a bit too seriously. Why is a 2nd degree so important to you anyway? The most intelligent people I know never went near a university. I think you raise a few good points though.

Everyone is different and will have their own agenda and experiences and goals.

The only advice I can give you is that we are all here for a short time. Live your life as you wish and not what some one else has told you to do.

FizzleSticks

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Permabear

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Samaris

I dunno if you can really just take a generation at a sweep and measure the lot of them as "happier" or "unhappier". You can learn a lot about outlooks on life from reading books written in different times and mostly they seem to show happiness and unhappiness at much the same levels as ours. Even those written in what we would consider grinding poverty - Call the Midwife, hell, Under the Hawthorn Tree - generally there are scenes where characters are absolutely happy and contented with their lot, even if said lot seems unimaginably hard to us today.

Other generations lived with the fear of losing the main breadwinner, of having too many children, of epidemic illnesses that took several family members at a go, of the workhouse if things went wrong. But they had certain benefits too; ignorance of anything else, a very small world to compare their own lives to, and religion and the faith in a heavenly reward. We don't have to fear losing the main breadwinner, but we have trouble with finding jobs. We don't have to fear epidemic illnesses (unless the anti-vaxxers have their way), we can control our own fertility and have smaller families, but we have a much bigger world to compare our own lots to and the knowledge that we will never see or do all we want to. We also have less in the way of religious faith and, whatever one's own feelings on the matter, it -did- make up a major part of peoples' lives and it doesn't really have a replacement nowadays. It's a gap where we tend to need something.

I think there's a lot more to it than that, and that at best I'm only scraping the barest surface. But overall, I think we are still only identifying the struggles and worries of our own generations and comparing them to past generations is more of academic interest than real use.

r93kaey5p2izun

Permabear wrote: »

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I agree in general with you about women's rights. Though I have 5 unmarried aunts and two unmarried grand aunts who bought their own homes and as a single woman that's something I feel is out of my reach now.

As to the house quality - no I don't agree. The houses in question are still in use today with no extensions or major upgrades beyond maybe addition of a back boiler and double glazing and are in most cases superior build quality to what's on offer today and certainly no smaller. Much bigger in many cases even though most are terraced. Gardens dwarf most houses of today too. As for expectations of holidays etc well those things are far far cheaper than they were in the past so you can't compare soneone spending two weeks in Spain now to somebody trying to do the same 40 years ago. I don't think it's a factor for my social circle anyway I have to say. They have mostly forgone any such holidays or new cars (or any car in a lot of cases oncluding my own) and nights out from mid 20s on in an effort to save for greater security.

Permabear

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Dughorm

Samaris wrote: »

I dunno if you can really just take a generation at a sweep and measure the lot of them as "happier" or "unhappier". You can learn a lot about outlooks on life from reading books written in different times and mostly they seem to show happiness and unhappiness at much the same levels as ours. Even those written in what we would consider grinding poverty - Call the Midwife, hell, Under the Hawthorn Tree - generally there are scenes where characters are absolutely happy and contented with their lot, even if said lot seems unimaginably hard to us today.

Other generations lived with the fear of losing the main breadwinner, of having too many children, of epidemic illnesses that took several family members at a go, of the workhouse if things went wrong. But they had certain benefits too; ignorance of anything else, a very small world to compare their own lives to, and religion and the faith in a heavenly reward. We don't have to fear losing the main breadwinner, but we have trouble with finding jobs. We don't have to fear epidemic illnesses (unless the anti-vaxxers have their way), we can control our own fertility and have smaller families, but we have a much bigger world to compare our own lots to and the knowledge that we will never see or do all we want to. We also have less in the way of religious faith and, whatever one's own feelings on the matter, it -did- make up a major part of peoples' lives and it doesn't really have a replacement nowadays. It's a gap where we tend to need something.

I think there's a lot more to it than that, and that at best I'm only scraping the barest surface. But overall, I think we are still only identifying the struggles and worries of our own generations and comparing them to past generations is more of academic interest than real use.

Lot of sense in this post but I disagree with the comment above that non-religious people haven't really found a replacement for religion in their lives. It can't be that hard for them surely?

There has been so much improvement in physical health, average wealth and opportunity here because of economic growth and technology and social change.

Does that mean that people now should be happier? Perhaps, but then it is so difficult for people to be happy because **drumroll** very few of us have perfect lives. Whatever we define "perfect" to be each and every day.

steddyeddy

I'll address the points made in the morning but people are confusing quality of life with happiness, anxiety and depression. I'm not suggesting the Masaai or Hadza have a better education, health or housing system than us nor am I suggesting circumstances in Ireland were fair in previous decades.

I don't think happiness is completely dictated by wealth or political backdrops either.

You can't say we weren't happy in the eighties because we had less money.

Samaris

Dughorm wrote: »

Lot of sense in this post but I disagree with the comment above that non-religious people haven't really found a replacement for religion in their lives. It can't be that hard for them surely?

Hrm, doesn't help that I phrased that section rather poorly. I'm mulling it over at the moment and I know what I mean, but it's harder to express! I'll think on it and see if I can explain it better.

timthumbni

FizzleSticks wrote: »

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Fizzlesticks. I wasn't taking the piss. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Intelligent people are often the most shy.

You shouldn't be anxious about work. It's crap but no need to be anxious. Try to enjoy your life. We are only tiny wee specks of humanity on this huge earth after all. Godspeed and best wishes.

PressRun

I wonder about the effect of social media on people's general happiness these days and how it offers so much more scope for people to compare and contrast their lot with someone else's in a way that hasn't existed before. I have young cousins and nieces and nephews who are growing up in the era of Facebook/Twitter/Instagram, etc. People only ever present a perfect version of themselves online. I sometimes worry about what kind of effect that has on young people going through the confusing period of their teenage years.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I really don't know, I haven't been around in previous generations

FizzleSticks

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JupiterKid

I'd say less happy. Too much anxiety and depression caused by information and sensory stimulation overload. Too much comparing one selves to others who appear happier and more successful. Much more insecurity and body image issues.

When things were simpler, people seemed more content with their lot. Of course there is no such thing as the good old days but my parents generation who reached maturity in the 1960s seem happier than mine.

Shelga

I think happiness is much the same as it always was. Like others have said, there were aspects of living in the past that were better, and aspects that were exponentially worse. I think it balances out overall, although the potential to be truly happy today is perhaps greater than it has ever been.

The single biggest change relating to levels of happiness today is the sheer amount of choice people have in their lives. This is assuming you are from a developed, peaceful, balanced nation, of course. The amount of options I had available to me growing up, compared to my parents, is staggering. In relation to my career choice, I was made to feel like I could do pretty much anything. Neither of my parents even got to go to college, and only my father did the Leaving Cert. I also feel much more free with regard to where to live, travel, casual dating, reproductive choices, working after having children, etc.

The flip side of that is the amount of choices can be overwhelming. People my age (28) struggle to feel truly settled in any one place, while also feeling pressure to do things like go travelling, work abroad, have nice cars, go on holidays, try different jobs, date around, gain extra qualifications- the list is long. I also think we're bombarded with advertising more than at any other time and that can create this hunger to buy 'stuff'- any stuff. Clothes, cars, furnishings, gadgets- it's so easy to fall into the trap of thinking, buy this, and life will be better in some small way. We don't even realise we're doing it. Add in Facebook and other social media where you see your peers constantly update about their latest holiday, new home, new car- we're all perpetuating this hunger to buy stuff, go places, consume.

I think we're far more inward-looking these days, unfortunately. What will make ME happy. I'm just as guilty of it as anyone.

I think, though, where I find my happiness is in the realisation and acceptance that ultimately, it's all bull****. Far easier said than done :P It doesn't matter if I buy this house, get that promotion, climb the ladder, blah blah. All that really matters is the people in your life. It was the case 500 years ago and it'll be the case 500 years from now.

Can't believe I just wrote that, but it's so true!

suicide_circus

The only things worse now than when my folks were my age is job security, ease of access to hospital and calorie intake.

Permabear

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Sleepy

I think a huge amount of modern misery stems from a reluctance to accept reality. Only a small number of people will ever get to have dream jobs where they're paid handsomely for undertaking work they'd be doing as a hobby otherwise. Most of us are lucky if we can find something that we're reasonably competent at, which pays a salary we can live on and that doesn't make us want to slit our wrists.

Even relatively simple dreams can drive one to unhappy places and our education system isn't helping, there's next to no career guidance and our universities are actively incentivised to train more people for many careers than our economy could ever support. For a very simple example, just look at the number of H.Dips in Education we award every year versus the numbers of teaching positions that need to be filled. How many young people do we train to be journalists or TV presenters?

Our world has evolved very quickly and many of those who've sat down with their children to help fill out their CAO forms in the past decade are still coming from a generation where third level education wasn't an option for any but the wealthy and where any degree would help one find gainful employment. Universal "free" third level education and next-to-useless careers guidance in school have lead to many squandering their university education, investing their time and the state's resources in areas where they can never hope to find gainful employment.

So with expectations set by parents who believe that any degree will help them find a good job, prospectuses offering plenty of places in glamourous fields of education and dreams encouraged by reality TV shows and celebrity culture is it any wonder that so many end up miserable when they graduate into the cold light of day and find themselves unemployable or one of so many graduates that employers can, literally, expect them to work for nothing?

FTA69

Permabear wrote: »

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I agree with you in a sense but another poster was on the money as well. Most of the new "luxury modern" stuff built as Ireland's economy skyrocketed were absolute dogsh*t, and as a construction worker in both Ireland and England for years I saw it first hand. People skipping over insulation, shoddy fitting etc; anything to get the priced job done and on to the next one as quick as possible.

In London now I live in a new apartment and it's a piece of f*cking sh*t with umpteen problems. Contrast that to the Victoria houses here which are still of an unbelievable quality bar the odd bit of auld draft.

I see your point in rural Ireland though, a lot of countryside dwellers seem to revel in throwing up these monstrosities all over the gaff with zero consideration for the character of the area. The complete lack of planning and uniformity has ruined what should have been scenic and sustainable development.

Permabear

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Maximus Alexander

People will always be stressed and unhappy at times. The easier life gets, the smaller a problem needs to be to make you stressed or miserable.

ancapailldorcha

Permabear wrote: »

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Indeed. I'd settle for a small property of my own though that looks unlikely. I still use pay as you go, to the derision of virtually everyone at work but I'm saving hundreds of pounds annually. I think I've even paid for a few holidays out of that alone at this stage.

Permabear wrote: »

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There is a Batman story where staff of Arkham Asylum attempt to treat the villain Two-Face (who can only make binary choices with his signature coin by flipping it) by replacing his coin with a dice and eventually a pack of playing cards. Overwhelmed by this dazzling array of options, he becomes unable to make even the simplest of choices such as going to the bathroom.

PopePalpatine

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

There is a Batman story where staff of Arkham Asylum attempt to treat the villain Two-Face (who can only make binary choices with his signature coin by flipping it) by replacing his coin with a dice and eventually a pack of playing cards. Overwhelmed by this dazzling array of options, he becomes unable to make even the simplest of choices such as going to the bathroom.

Gods help him if they give him a simple phone with just a RNG app installed. :pac: Maybe it's the pedant in me, but I'm disappointed he didn't think of cheating the system by using odd-number/black cards as heads and even-numbered/red cards as tails.

Permabear

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ancapailldorcha

Permabear wrote: »

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It certainly does. Skype for instance can make calls for a pittance and ignores borders even when calling a phone. I see students walking around with iPhones and I just don't get it. They cost £40 a month easily and that's before one factors in another £100 or so for insurance annually. Mine was worth £100 when I bought it 3 years ago and I spend about £100 annually on credit. I used to live with a fairly nasty pothead who once made a speech to me regarding how he felt sorry for anyone who didn't have an iPhone but couldn't back it up when I pressed him. Come to think of it, me questioning himself like that might have been part of why he hated me. His friend lost his brand new iPhone 5 at Parklife, a festival in Manchester. I think it cost about £500-£600. Madness.

I try and go on one or two holidays abroad each year depending on size as I am single and it's going to be much more difficult if I settle down. I don't own a car, I own more videogames than I can ever play for massive discounts on Steam, same for the Kindle and I stay in most nights. Just planning I suppose.

People moan about not having enough money and there's some basis for that but when you look at some of the stuff that's considered to be essential nowadays.

Permabear

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ancapailldorcha

Permabear wrote: »

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You would think. Parklife is famous for attracting, how shall I say this, people from less affluent backgrounds. Foresight and prudence would be in somewhat short supply based on the chaps I was living with.

Permabear wrote: »

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You've stated before what you do. Can't imagine a job where I need to be "on" all the time. I've a friend who works for the BBC. He'd be similar in that he needs to keep an Eagle eye on various sportspeople's Twitter accounts.

Never heard of Blackphones before but I'm not surprised your employer has furnished you with one.

Permabear wrote: »

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Same here with some games thrown in. I'm fairly quiet by nature so having such options is a real boon. I suspect I'd be quite miserable were I part of my father's generation who emigrated to London to work on building sites. I bought Rome: Total War for £3.74 and have sank over 100 hours into it by now. Value ain't the word!

Permabear

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