Are people more or less happy than the preceding generations?

steddyeddy

It seems to me the simpler life is the happier or least stressed it is. I did some brief volunteering with tribes like the Masaai and Hadza and their life although simple seems happier r than ours. They seem less stressed and don't seem to find depression an alien concept.

When these tribe members become settled often they become depressed or alcoholics. The same thing is seen with Inuit peoples and other indiginous cultures around the world when they become settled.

I'm around thirty and when I was a postgraduate in UCD I noticed the younger generation seemed more stressed than me or my friends when I was that age. Is depression and social anxiety on the increase and does the complexity of modern life add to that, are people getting more detached from society or is it just a case of people being more open with their mental health problems?

One eyed Jack

There's a lot to be said for the idiom that "ignorance is bliss" IMO. We here in the West have access to a wealth of information at our fingertips (and that's both a good and a bad thing), because while it gives us the opportunity to soak up knowledge, it also makes us aware of what we consider must be the suffering of others in the world, and the ability to self-diagnose ourselves with all sorts of illnesses, which in itself can lend itself to a very depressed state of mind. We don't have the immediate and more basic concerns of others such as the knowledge of where to source water that won't kill them or root plants that won't poison them.

The flying mouse

Is it the case the more we have the more we want ? There does seem to be more of a pressure on younger people today, imo more of a materialistic value on life then on a happy with what you got kinda way. Suppose it all goes with having more money to spend than years ago, (as in 70,s80,s)

Dirty Dingus McGee

I'd genuinely say people are less happy than previous generations.

There is much more expectation and pressure on people to have a great life (both internal and external pressure) and I think people who probably have good lives constantly feel like their life isn't good enough (or being reminded that their lives aren't good enough).

50 or 60 years ago if you had food on the table and a roof over your head you were happy enough and people accepted their lot and got on with it.

The second noble truth of the buddah is: The cause of all suffering is desire (at least it is according to Sideshow Bob).

Dirty Dingus McGee

One eyed Jack wrote: »

There's a lot to be said for the idiom that "ignorance is bliss" IMO. We here in the West have access to a wealth of information at our fingertips (and that's both a good and a bad thing), because while it gives us the opportunity to soak up knowledge, it also makes us aware of what we consider must be the suffering of others in the world, and the ability to self-diagnose ourselves with all sorts of illnesses, which in itself can lend itself to a very depressed state of mind. We don't have the immediate and more basic concerns of others such as the knowledge of where to source water that won't kill them or root plants that won't poison them.

100% agree with that.

JackieBauer

I'm too drunk for this sh!t

timthumbni

Modern advances in technology has unfortunately turned a lot of people into neurotic morons. That Facebook for example is a joke where people seem to think they should tell everyone that they are heading into the bathroom to take a dump.

I don't know about happier. I would say that nowadays people want more and more stuff and that in itself could cause people to be unhappy.

gramar

I'd say it's one or the other. Or else it's just about the same.

steddyeddy

I grew up in the eighties and nineties with less money and less stress and less pressure. Things seemed more straightforward. A lot of the young adults I dealt with in college seem more disconnected and under pressure.

the evasion_kid

Less happy I would say... You can't take a p!ss without filling in a form these days...

corner of hells

Dunno , I suppose if your support Spurs , you're as happy as a pig in ****e right now.
Beer always tastes better when football is on too.

Academic

There has been a bit of research into the causes of long-term happiness among adults (as opposed to kind of short-term happiness that comes from, say, eating an ice cream cone), and if I recall correctly one of the single most important determinants is one’s expectations, and these often go back to childhood.

People whose adult lives exceed their expectations of what adult life should be like tend to be happier than people who feel their adult lives fall short of their expectations.

One of the happier generations in the 20th century was the one in which people were children during the Great Depression but went on to live substantially more secure lives as adults. Not surprising, really.

Cheers,

Ac

Could it simply be less clothes and more nudity?

steddyeddy

Deleted User wrote: »

Could it simply be less clothes and more nudity?

If you seen the t1ts on the Masaai you wouldn't be saying that.

FizzleSticks

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Minderbinder

I don't understand the term 'ignorance is bliss'. Could someone explain it too me?





Actually don't bother.

ScumLord

steddyeddy wrote: »

I grew up in the eighties and nineties with less money and less stress and less pressure. Things seemed more straightforward. A lot of the young adults I dealt with in college seem more disconnected and under pressure.

No the 80s were ****. Getting beat at school for doing something wrong wasn't fun. Having the English cousins coming home with clothes and toys for their underprivileged Irish cousins was fun at the time but takes on a new light in hindsight. Perhaps we had lower expectations back then but I don't think people were hugely happy with their lot.

Same goes for most previous times. I think if any of us got to spend any amount of time living like they would have in the past we'd quickly grow to appreciate our own lifestyles. working your fingers to the bone to wash clothes may be liberating for a week or two but eventually the despair would set in as you do it day in day out until you aren't able to do it anymore and have to sit in your own muck, or die.

People only have romantic views of the past, they gloss over the menotomy, bigotry, racism, horrendous lack of scientific medicine (modern medicine alone is enough to turn me off living any further in the past than last week), and basically a general lack of understanding. Superstition still hasn't gone away fully, imagine living in a world where people believed your cold was a spirit trying to take you over and the "cure" was worse than any cold.

wakka12

Theres a lot of pressure on younger people to do well in school , be popular/outgoing and have lots of friends, and to be fit and attractive, and when none of these come naturally to you it can put a lot of stress on you trying to juggle them all

melissak

Nostalgia is not what it used to be.

FizzleSticks

FizzleSticks wrote: »

I agree with Dirty Dingus McGee (great username) the pressure to have an amazing life is very real, I feel a lot of pressure to get a masters, get a fantastic job so I can afford childcare, health insurance and to save for a rainy day because we all know the next rainy day in Ireland is only a matter of time

Woah woah there man. Seriously, you are sweating the small stuff. Focus on having a great relationship with a wonderful woman and, if you want a child, hoping for a healthy child who is happy. Forget the "saving for a rainy day" stuff. Yeah, it's important, but not nearly as important as the stuff I mentioned. I don't like my job, have sfa in the bank, have 2 crippling mortgages, but have a wonderful wife and a healthy child and consider myself way up in the life stakes. Like waaaay up. Know people with tough marriages, sick children...all the money in the bank doesn't matter a damn to them, they'd trade all and live off the dole for happiness on those fronts.

Dirty Dingus McGee

ScumLord wrote: »

No the 80s were ****. Getting beat at school for doing something wrong wasn't fun. Having the English cousins coming home with clothes and toys for their underprivileged Irish cousins was fun at the time but takes on a new light in hindsight. Perhaps we had lower expectations back then but I don't think people were hugely happy with their lot.

Same goes for most previous times. I think if any of us got to spend any amount of time living like they would have in the past we'd quickly grow to appreciate our own lifestyles. working your fingers to the bone to wash clothes may be liberating for a week or two but eventually the despair would set in as you do it day in day out until you aren't able to do it anymore and have to sit in your own muck, or die.

People only have romantic views of the past, they gloss over the menotomy, bigotry, racism, horrendous lack of scientific medicine (modern medicine alone is enough to turn me off living any further in the past than last week), and basically a general lack of understanding. Superstition still hasn't gone away fully, imagine living in a world where people believed your cold was a spirit trying to take you over and the "cure" was worse than any cold.

But that's exactly the point compared to now peoples lives weren't as good but people were better able to accept it.People are more ambitious and hopeful now but it probably leads to a greater sense of failure and disappointment with your life than people in the past who probably accepted their lot.

My grandfather is probably the most content person in the world and all he needed to be happy was a roof over his head food on the table and a few pints, people these days expect more from their lives.

timthumbni

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

But that's exactly the point compared to now peoples lives weren't as good but people were better able to accept it.People are more ambitious and hopeful now but it probably leads to a greater sense of failure and disappointment with your life than people in the past who probably accepted their lot.

My grandfather is probably the most content person in the world and all he needed to be happy was a roof over his head food on the table and a few pints, people these days expect more from their lives.

Your granda sounds like he knows the score. Thats what I can't understand about rich people. What more do they want. They don't need any more money. Unless they find the secret to eternal life what are they actually playing at?

Dirty Dingus McGee

timthumbni wrote: »

Your granda sounds like he knows the score. Thats what I can't understand about rich people. What more do they want. They don't need any more money. Unless they find the secret to eternal life what are they actually playing at?

One of my uncles was a multi millionaire (before he died) upwards of €50 million and he was obsessed with work and he actually loved working. I think anyone who is successful at anything must have an inbuilt love for what they do and are successful because of that.

It always annoys when when I hear successful people saying how hard they worked and that's why they are successful but most successful people really love what they do so in affect the hard work isn't work at all.

osarusan

I don't think it has anything to do with generations.

Permabear

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Happy is the wrong word, when life was more defined, there was little choice and people had no accesses to information about any other life or way of living: they might have been more contented, but that was at the cost of suppressing a lot of themselves.

Endless choice does not make people happy though.

FizzleSticks

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r93kaey5p2izun

I think lack of security is something that worries and upsets a lot of people, particularly in relation to job and housing. People talk about the great opportunities for travel now and not being tied down and that certainly suits some, but not the majority in the long term I think. I think job insecurity and housing insecurity mean lots of people are stressed and worried these days. There have been housing issues in the past too but nowadays it seems to affect even those in so-called good jobs and I think it's hard for many to take that even after many years studying and working and progressing that secure housing can still be a worry.

ScumLord

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

But that's exactly the point compared to now peoples lives weren't as good but people were better able to accept it.People are more ambitious and hopeful now but it probably leads to a greater sense of failure and disappointment with your life than people in the past who probably accepted their lot.

People were ambitious in the past. We have so many stories of Irish people turning up in odd places doing odd things all the way back into ancient times. But it was a very different world, somewhere like India would have seemed like something out of game of thrones to them, they would have been easily impressed by our standards, they would have had completely different ambitions, based on a completely different knowledge. I'd say no matter what time in civilized human history you went to, you'd more than likely find the same basic conversations, the same basic worries and people with the same basic ambitions. Once you cut away the differences in culture, civilized society creates a particular type of human.

My grandfather is probably the most content person in the world and all he needed to be happy was a roof over his head food on the table and a few pints, people these days expect more from their lives.

The other thing we have to take into the older generations accounts is the fact that they have a different chemical make up, affecting our mood, perception and even our memory recall. When you go to actual text from people throughout history it's shocking how familiar their words seem.

Averi Nice Sunbeam wrote: »

I think lack of security is something that worries and upsets a lot of people, particularly in relation to job and housing. People talk about the great opportunities for travel now and not being tied down and that certainly suits some, but not the majority in the long term I think. I think job insecurity and housing insecurity mean lots of people are stressed and worried these days. There have been housing issues in the past too but nowadays it seems to affect even those in so-called good jobs and I think it's hard for many to take that even after many years studying and working and progressing that secure housing can still be a worry.

Which is ironic seeing as housing and job security just didn't exist in the past. At any point you could lose your job or your house and there would have been zero you could do about it, if your boss decided to take he's bad mood out on your that day, you'd just have to live with it. If your landlord decided to raise your rent 200% or kick you out because he liked someone better, he could. Living in built up towns and cities means housing is always going to be an issue in one way or another. The fact Ireland can put roofs over the heads of just about everyone in the country whether they can afford it or not is a huge improvement, it's probably a huge improvement on how it was when the state stated less than a hundred years ago.

Academic

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

[...]

My grandfather is probably the most content person in the world and all he needed to be happy was a roof over his head food on the table and a few pints, people these days expect more from their lives.

Yes, as I and others have indicated, expectations have a lot to do with it. (To be clear, I’m talking about ordinary ‘happiness’ and ‘unhappiness’, not illnesses like clinical depression or any other sort of pathology.)

One sees it all the time: two people have almost identical lives in turns of salary, job, family, and so forth, yet one will be satisfied and the other not. Most often this different response to identical environments is, at least in large measure, a result of different expectations. We all respond somewhat differently to identical situations because we’ve all lived different lives.

It’s important, I think, to understand the phenomenon in those terms, and not to see unhappiness as a form of moral failure on the part of the individual. Ireland has had a long and unfortunate history of doing exactly that. And we all know what the consequences have been.

Cheers,

Ac

Dirty Dingus McGee

ScumLord wrote: »

People were ambitious in the past. We have so many stories of Irish people turning up in odd places doing odd things all the way back into ancient times. But it was a very different world, somewhere like India would have seemed like something out of game of thrones to them, they would have been easily impressed by our standards, they would have had completely different ambitions, based on a completely different knowledge. I'd say no matter what time in civilized human history you went to, you'd more than likely find the same basic conversations, the same basic worries and people with the same basic ambitions. Once you cut away the differences in culture, civilized society creates a particular type of human.

I would say that people of the past in general more readily accepted their lot than people of today and just wanted to keep their heads above water.

ScumLord

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I would say that people of the past in general more readily accepted their lot than people of today and just wanted to keep their heads above water.

I don't know, I think most people are like that now. It's all part of the human experience. As a teenager you think anything is possible, have loads of ambitions. Then you reach middle age and realise it's going to take a load of work so don't bother and are just happy making enough to stay at a comfortable standard of living.

r93kaey5p2izun

ScumLord wrote: »

Which is ironic seeing as housing and job security just didn't exist in the past. At any point you could lose your job or your house and there would have been zero you could do about it, if your boss decided to take he's bad mood out on your that day, you'd just have to live with it. If your landlord decided to raise your rent 200% or kick you out because he liked someone better, he could. Living in built up towns and cities means housing is always going to be an issue in one way or another. The fact Ireland can put roofs over the heads of just about everyone in the country whether they can afford it or not is a huge improvement, it's probably a huge improvement on how it was when the state stated less than a hundred years ago.

And yet, when I look back at my parents, grandparents and great grandparents and the parents and grandparents of everyone I know, they nearly all, with just one or two exceptions, had jobs for life or maybe two long term jobs with an interruption of unemployment during a big recession. They also all managed to buy their own home. These people mostly left school at 12/13 with little education and few ever trained in any trade or skilled area.

Now I see everyone with degrees, masters, phds in skilled areas struggling to get secure work and even those who have and who are promoted are still struggling with rent.

I know in theory worker's rights and protections have improved but it just doesn't seem to have translated into any improvement in security for anyone around me.

timthumbni

FizzleSticks wrote: »

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I think you are already taking life a bit too seriously. Why is a 2nd degree so important to you anyway? The most intelligent people I know never went near a university. I think you raise a few good points though.

Everyone is different and will have their own agenda and experiences and goals.

The only advice I can give you is that we are all here for a short time. Live your life as you wish and not what some one else has told you to do.

FizzleSticks

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Permabear

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Samaris

I dunno if you can really just take a generation at a sweep and measure the lot of them as "happier" or "unhappier". You can learn a lot about outlooks on life from reading books written in different times and mostly they seem to show happiness and unhappiness at much the same levels as ours. Even those written in what we would consider grinding poverty - Call the Midwife, hell, Under the Hawthorn Tree - generally there are scenes where characters are absolutely happy and contented with their lot, even if said lot seems unimaginably hard to us today.

Other generations lived with the fear of losing the main breadwinner, of having too many children, of epidemic illnesses that took several family members at a go, of the workhouse if things went wrong. But they had certain benefits too; ignorance of anything else, a very small world to compare their own lives to, and religion and the faith in a heavenly reward. We don't have to fear losing the main breadwinner, but we have trouble with finding jobs. We don't have to fear epidemic illnesses (unless the anti-vaxxers have their way), we can control our own fertility and have smaller families, but we have a much bigger world to compare our own lots to and the knowledge that we will never see or do all we want to. We also have less in the way of religious faith and, whatever one's own feelings on the matter, it -did- make up a major part of peoples' lives and it doesn't really have a replacement nowadays. It's a gap where we tend to need something.

I think there's a lot more to it than that, and that at best I'm only scraping the barest surface. But overall, I think we are still only identifying the struggles and worries of our own generations and comparing them to past generations is more of academic interest than real use.

r93kaey5p2izun

Permabear wrote: »

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I agree in general with you about women's rights. Though I have 5 unmarried aunts and two unmarried grand aunts who bought their own homes and as a single woman that's something I feel is out of my reach now.

As to the house quality - no I don't agree. The houses in question are still in use today with no extensions or major upgrades beyond maybe addition of a back boiler and double glazing and are in most cases superior build quality to what's on offer today and certainly no smaller. Much bigger in many cases even though most are terraced. Gardens dwarf most houses of today too. As for expectations of holidays etc well those things are far far cheaper than they were in the past so you can't compare soneone spending two weeks in Spain now to somebody trying to do the same 40 years ago. I don't think it's a factor for my social circle anyway I have to say. They have mostly forgone any such holidays or new cars (or any car in a lot of cases oncluding my own) and nights out from mid 20s on in an effort to save for greater security.

Permabear

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Dughorm

Samaris wrote: »

I dunno if you can really just take a generation at a sweep and measure the lot of them as "happier" or "unhappier". You can learn a lot about outlooks on life from reading books written in different times and mostly they seem to show happiness and unhappiness at much the same levels as ours. Even those written in what we would consider grinding poverty - Call the Midwife, hell, Under the Hawthorn Tree - generally there are scenes where characters are absolutely happy and contented with their lot, even if said lot seems unimaginably hard to us today.

Other generations lived with the fear of losing the main breadwinner, of having too many children, of epidemic illnesses that took several family members at a go, of the workhouse if things went wrong. But they had certain benefits too; ignorance of anything else, a very small world to compare their own lives to, and religion and the faith in a heavenly reward. We don't have to fear losing the main breadwinner, but we have trouble with finding jobs. We don't have to fear epidemic illnesses (unless the anti-vaxxers have their way), we can control our own fertility and have smaller families, but we have a much bigger world to compare our own lots to and the knowledge that we will never see or do all we want to. We also have less in the way of religious faith and, whatever one's own feelings on the matter, it -did- make up a major part of peoples' lives and it doesn't really have a replacement nowadays. It's a gap where we tend to need something.

I think there's a lot more to it than that, and that at best I'm only scraping the barest surface. But overall, I think we are still only identifying the struggles and worries of our own generations and comparing them to past generations is more of academic interest than real use.

Lot of sense in this post but I disagree with the comment above that non-religious people haven't really found a replacement for religion in their lives. It can't be that hard for them surely?

There has been so much improvement in physical health, average wealth and opportunity here because of economic growth and technology and social change.

Does that mean that people now should be happier? Perhaps, but then it is so difficult for people to be happy because **drumroll** very few of us have perfect lives. Whatever we define "perfect" to be each and every day.

steddyeddy

I'll address the points made in the morning but people are confusing quality of life with happiness, anxiety and depression. I'm not suggesting the Masaai or Hadza have a better education, health or housing system than us nor am I suggesting circumstances in Ireland were fair in previous decades.

I don't think happiness is completely dictated by wealth or political backdrops either.

You can't say we weren't happy in the eighties because we had less money.

Samaris

Dughorm wrote: »

Lot of sense in this post but I disagree with the comment above that non-religious people haven't really found a replacement for religion in their lives. It can't be that hard for them surely?

Hrm, doesn't help that I phrased that section rather poorly. I'm mulling it over at the moment and I know what I mean, but it's harder to express! I'll think on it and see if I can explain it better.

timthumbni

FizzleSticks wrote: »

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Fizzlesticks. I wasn't taking the piss. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Intelligent people are often the most shy.

You shouldn't be anxious about work. It's crap but no need to be anxious. Try to enjoy your life. We are only tiny wee specks of humanity on this huge earth after all. Godspeed and best wishes.

PressRun

I wonder about the effect of social media on people's general happiness these days and how it offers so much more scope for people to compare and contrast their lot with someone else's in a way that hasn't existed before. I have young cousins and nieces and nephews who are growing up in the era of Facebook/Twitter/Instagram, etc. People only ever present a perfect version of themselves online. I sometimes worry about what kind of effect that has on young people going through the confusing period of their teenage years.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I really don't know, I haven't been around in previous generations

FizzleSticks

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JupiterKid

I'd say less happy. Too much anxiety and depression caused by information and sensory stimulation overload. Too much comparing one selves to others who appear happier and more successful. Much more insecurity and body image issues.

When things were simpler, people seemed more content with their lot. Of course there is no such thing as the good old days but my parents generation who reached maturity in the 1960s seem happier than mine.

Shelga

I think happiness is much the same as it always was. Like others have said, there were aspects of living in the past that were better, and aspects that were exponentially worse. I think it balances out overall, although the potential to be truly happy today is perhaps greater than it has ever been.

The single biggest change relating to levels of happiness today is the sheer amount of choice people have in their lives. This is assuming you are from a developed, peaceful, balanced nation, of course. The amount of options I had available to me growing up, compared to my parents, is staggering. In relation to my career choice, I was made to feel like I could do pretty much anything. Neither of my parents even got to go to college, and only my father did the Leaving Cert. I also feel much more free with regard to where to live, travel, casual dating, reproductive choices, working after having children, etc.

The flip side of that is the amount of choices can be overwhelming. People my age (28) struggle to feel truly settled in any one place, while also feeling pressure to do things like go travelling, work abroad, have nice cars, go on holidays, try different jobs, date around, gain extra qualifications- the list is long. I also think we're bombarded with advertising more than at any other time and that can create this hunger to buy 'stuff'- any stuff. Clothes, cars, furnishings, gadgets- it's so easy to fall into the trap of thinking, buy this, and life will be better in some small way. We don't even realise we're doing it. Add in Facebook and other social media where you see your peers constantly update about their latest holiday, new home, new car- we're all perpetuating this hunger to buy stuff, go places, consume.

I think we're far more inward-looking these days, unfortunately. What will make ME happy. I'm just as guilty of it as anyone.

I think, though, where I find my happiness is in the realisation and acceptance that ultimately, it's all bull****. Far easier said than done :P It doesn't matter if I buy this house, get that promotion, climb the ladder, blah blah. All that really matters is the people in your life. It was the case 500 years ago and it'll be the case 500 years from now.

Can't believe I just wrote that, but it's so true!

suicide_circus

The only things worse now than when my folks were my age is job security, ease of access to hospital and calorie intake.

Permabear

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Sleepy

I think a huge amount of modern misery stems from a reluctance to accept reality. Only a small number of people will ever get to have dream jobs where they're paid handsomely for undertaking work they'd be doing as a hobby otherwise. Most of us are lucky if we can find something that we're reasonably competent at, which pays a salary we can live on and that doesn't make us want to slit our wrists.

Even relatively simple dreams can drive one to unhappy places and our education system isn't helping, there's next to no career guidance and our universities are actively incentivised to train more people for many careers than our economy could ever support. For a very simple example, just look at the number of H.Dips in Education we award every year versus the numbers of teaching positions that need to be filled. How many young people do we train to be journalists or TV presenters?

Our world has evolved very quickly and many of those who've sat down with their children to help fill out their CAO forms in the past decade are still coming from a generation where third level education wasn't an option for any but the wealthy and where any degree would help one find gainful employment. Universal "free" third level education and next-to-useless careers guidance in school have lead to many squandering their university education, investing their time and the state's resources in areas where they can never hope to find gainful employment.

So with expectations set by parents who believe that any degree will help them find a good job, prospectuses offering plenty of places in glamourous fields of education and dreams encouraged by reality TV shows and celebrity culture is it any wonder that so many end up miserable when they graduate into the cold light of day and find themselves unemployable or one of so many graduates that employers can, literally, expect them to work for nothing?