Last Dublin Buses terminating in City Centre?

Muahahaha

Was at the Muse gig in the Point last night. Got a Luas into town after it only to look up the timetables of my three available routes, the 140, 83 and 9. For all three the final bus of the night was marked 'C' which denotes it only goes to the city centre.

So effectively the last bus of the night is only of use to get into the city centre, not out of it. It means the last bus I can get home is at 11pm which is pretty useless if you're at a gig or having a couple of pints. I only had two pints at the gig but if I had of know that Dublin Bus knocked off the final bus of the night I would have just stayed sober and driven there instead.

Anyone know what the story is? And where are the buses going after they terminate in the city centre. I know the 83 buses are based at the Harristown depot so surely the driver still has to drive the route but now the bus is 'As Seirbhis' instead of getting people home. Its madness that in a capital city you can't get home after 11pm imo.

cml387

Nitelink?

LXFlyer

The last through buses on all of those routes wait on O'Connell Street until 23:30 before departing northbound. So you don't have to go home at 11pm!

The latest departure on any route from the city centre is 23:30 - nothing new about that.

The last departures from the southern termini operate to O'Connell Street in service and then go out of service back to the depot.

Any increase in operating hours would require additional PSO subsidy - there are, in all honesty, more important times that extra buses are needed during the day to cope with existing loadings that said money could be used for right now.

GLaDOS

Last buses leave town at 11.30? Certainly all the ones I use do.

Last 9 should definitely leave at 11.30 anyway.

MrMorooka

lxflyer wrote: »

The last departures from the southern termini operate to O'Connell Street in service and then go out of service back to the depot.

That's fine for buses going to most garages, but for the specific example of the 83 and other routes that go to Harristown anyway there is no reason not to operate in service.

LXFlyer

MrMorooka wrote: »

That's fine for buses going to most garages, but for the specific example of the 83 and other routes that go to Harristown anyway there is no reason not to operate in service.

Well there is - driver duty hours.

The bus off the 83 would be back in Harristown far faster going out of service from the city and the driver roster would recognise that.

Driver hours are strictly limited by legislation and the rosters would reflect that.

Secondly it's not in the contract with the NTA.

You could take your argument and say why do all the buses go from the garages out of service to either the city centre or outer termini to start work in the mornings.

The bottom line is that the last bus on all PSO routes leaves the city centre no later than 23:30. Until the NTA decide otherwise (and pay DB additional subsidy) that is not going to change.

MrMorooka

lxflyer wrote: »

Well there is - driver duty hours.

I knew you were going to say that. Realistically, that's a minor practical impediment. If there was the will it could be overcome. Like you say the problem is funding, which is a political problem, which is a cultural problem from who we vote for.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

The last through buses on all of those routes wait on O'Connell Street until 23:30 before departing northbound.

Is that dependable? Last 66A was supposed to wait on Westmoreland St till 23.20 but in my personal experience it never has.

LXFlyer

MrMorooka wrote: »

I knew you were going to say that. Realistically, that's a minor practical impediment. If there was the will it could be overcome. Like you say the problem is funding, which is a political problem, which is a cultural problem from who we vote for.

Well you did ask!!

And frankly neither you nor I know how tight the rosters are. But I doubt there's that much wriggle room being honest.

It would also be rather unfair on other areas of the city if routes operating out of Harristown had later departures from city centre than routes out of other depots.

If later buses were to operate it would need to be on a network wide basis.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

Is that dependable? Last 66A was supposed to wait on Westmoreland St till 23.20 but in my personal experience it never has.

Yes it is. Last departure from city centre on all cross-city routes at 23:30 is marked on their duty boards. Going earlier would be a disciplinerary offence.

The 66a isn't really in the same bracket as the terminus is in Merrion Square. It's not a cross-city route as such.

punisher5112

100 years ago trams operated the same.

If enough people used the buses they could add services but the demand isn't there.

The talk of all the 24hr services also imo won't be busy or pay for itself as there won't be enough of a demand.

The buses running 24hours in London is worth while because the city never sleeps Dublin is nothing like it.

Nitelinks ran at 1230 and 2 weekdays and where withdrawn due to no demand even the weekend ones were cut back.

tabbey

lxflyer wrote: »

The last departures from the southern termini operate to O'Connell Street in service and then go out of service back to the depot.

.

Is it possible that some of these Harristown based last buses might stable overnight in Broadstone?.

I seem to remember some years ago that some drivers of Harristown were expected to split shift in town during the day, perhaps they had some arrangement with Broadstone, from which Harristown was created.

LXFlyer

tabbey wrote: »

Is it possible that some of these Harristown based last buses might stable overnight in Broadstone?.

I seem to remember some years ago that some drivers of Harristown were expected to split shift in town during the day, perhaps they had some arrangement with Broadstone, from which Harristown was created.

No - those buses go back to home base.

macroman

tabbey wrote: »

Is it possible that some of these Harristown based last buses might stable overnight in Broadstone?.

I seem to remember some years ago that some drivers of Harristown were expected to split shift in town during the day, perhaps they had some arrangement with Broadstone, from which Harristown was created.

The original agreement was any routes moved to Harristown would start, break and finish in Harristown, due to the distance between the garage and city only 3 routes have reliefs in the city, the rest are garage based. These were newly created routes (15/140/40CC) which break downtown and allow for drivers travel time to and from the city - ultimately this results in less time behind the wheel.

Would I have to finish in Broadstone and make my own way with no transport back to Harristown, or to get a staff bus back to Harristown to sign off and collect my car and drive home. What about the following morning? Would Harristown drivers be expected to travel to Broadstone to collect their buses? It would be a false economy as you would have to pay/allow for more earlier starting/later finishing duties, shorter driving time to allow for travel time etc.

cdebru

punisher5112 wrote: »

100 years ago trams operated the same.

If enough people used the buses they could add services but the demand isn't there.

The talk of all the 24hr services also imo won't be busy or pay for itself as there won't be enough of a demand.

The buses running 24hours in London is worth while because the city never sleeps Dublin is nothing like it.

Nitelinks ran at 1230 and 2 weekdays and where withdrawn due to no demand even the weekend ones were cut back.

It won't pay for itself which is why it is waiting till the NTA pay for it, I would say there would be demand on certain routes past 11:30, the nitelinks faded because of taxi deregulation, it makes no sense for most people to use the nitelinks on a purely economic basis price wise, and taxis falling over themselves means it makes no sense on a practical basis, unless you are alone, live far out of the city, you are near a pick up point and happen to be heading home at the right time.

But a regular timetabled service that picked people up along route and didn't cost an arm and a leg would be a lot busier than the nitelinks service.

punisher5112

cdebru wrote: »

It won't pay for itself which is why it is waiting till the NTA pay for it, I would say there would be demand on certain routes past 11:30, the nitelinks faded because of taxi deregulation, it makes no sense for most people to use the nitelinks on a purely economic basis price wise, and taxis falling over themselves means it makes no sense on a practical basis, unless you are alone, live far out of the city, you are near a pick up point and happen to be heading home at the right time.

But a regular timetabled service that picked people up along route and didn't cost an arm and a leg would be a lot busier than the nitelinks service.

Fully agree but just don't see a huge demand to be honest.

cdebru

n97 mini wrote: »

Is that dependable? Last 66A was supposed to wait on Westmoreland St till 23.20 but in my personal experience it never has.

Last 66a is not timetabled to wait in Westmoreland Street the last 66 is timetabled to wait till 23:30.

cdebru

punisher5112 wrote: »

Fully agree but just don't see a huge demand to be honest.

But then if bus services were only delivered on the basis of huge demand there would be an awful lot less of them.

The airport should definitely have a 24 hour service and some of the main arterial routes could be trialed as well.

punisher5112

cdebru wrote: »

But then if bus services were only delivered on the basis of huge demand there would be an awful lot less of them.

The airport should definitely have a 24 hour service and some of the main arterial routes could be trialed as well.

I understand that and get your point.

Airport and main hubs could work but as said purely financial speaking it wouldn't work.

LXFlyer

punisher5112 wrote: »

I understand that and get your point.

Airport and main hubs could work but as said purely financial speaking it wouldn't work.

There are very few PSO routes that do work from a financial perspective - that's why the PSO subsidy is there.


Any night time services would of course require additional PSO money.

cdebru wrote: »

But then if bus services were only delivered on the basis of huge demand there would be an awful lot less of them.

The airport should definitely have a 24 hour service and some of the main arterial routes could be trialed as well.

I certainly would see value in a proper night time service being developed.


I would think that the 16 would be the obvious choice to start off with.


And then focus on one route on each of the main corridors, which at night could end up as a hybrid of several routes at the outer end to serve the outer estates (combine the 38 and 39 for example like the Nitelink service does).

Muahahaha

lxflyer wrote: »

The last through buses on all of those routes wait on O'Connell Street until 23:30 before departing northbound. So you don't have to go home at 11pm!

The latest departure on any route from the city centre is 23:30 - nothing new about that.

The last departures from the southern termini operate to O'Connell Street in service and then go out of service back to the depot.

Any increase in operating hours would require additional PSO subsidy - there are, in all honesty, more important times that extra buses are needed during the day to cope with existing loadings that said money could be used for right now.

Thanks lxflyer, seems I made a mistake. I wish their time table was more clear, it states 23.30c for the last bus from the southern terminus with the C denoted on the timetable as 'To City Centre'. From that I thought it means the final bus finishes in the City Centre because the word 'To' suggests it terminates there.

I should have used the RTP1 to find out for sure. But I'm after just checking it now for the 140 from Westmoreland Street to Finglas and it is saying the last one picks up in Westmoreland at 23.48. So now I really don't know what to think!

n97 mini

cdebru wrote: »

Last 66a is not timetabled to wait in Westmoreland Street the last 66 is timetabled to wait till 23:30.

Was. But never did in my experience.

Edit. I have no first hand experience but I'm told that since the last 66 now leaves Merrion Sq at the earlier time of 23.20 that a lot of people are missing it.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

Yes it is. Last departure from city centre on all cross-city routes at 23:30 is marked on their duty boards. Going earlier would be a disciplinerary offence.

The 66a isn't really in the same bracket as the terminus is in Merrion Square. It's not a cross-city route as such.

Tell the customers who missed their bus they're not in the same bracket!

cdebru

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thanks lxflyer, seems I made a mistake. I wish their time table was more clear, it states 23.30c for the last bus from the southern terminus with the C denoted on the timetable as 'To City Centre'. From that I thought it means the final bus finishes in the City Centre because the word 'To' suggests it terminates there.

I should have used the RTP1 to find out for sure. But I'm after just checking it now for the 140 from Westmoreland Street to Finglas and it is saying the last one picks up in Westmoreland at 23.48. So now I really don't know what to think!

The last bus from the south side terminus does finish in the city centre, that's exactly what the c stands for ? If it leaves kimmage or Palmerston park or Limelkiln at 23:30 then that bus can obviously not be departing the city centre at 23:30.
There was a 140 due in Westmoreland St at 23:48 but it only goes as far as O'Connell Street the Dublin bus app lists it destination as O'Connell Street.

The 23:00 from Palmerston Park is the last bus going all the way over to Finglas it leaves O'Connell Street at 23:30 the 23:30 from Palmerston Park goes as far as O'Connell Street and that bus was due in Westmoreland Street at 23:48. Simple really !!!!

cdebru

n97 mini wrote: »

Was. But never did in my experience.

Edit. I have no first hand experience but I'm told that since the last 66 now leaves Merrion Sq at the earlier time of 23.20 that a lot of people are missing it.

Who said was ? It never was or did have a Westmoreland Street departure time afaik.

The 66 has been leaving Merrion Square at 23:20 for as long as it has been terminating at Merrion Square afaik, it leaves Westmoreland Street at 23:30

cdebru

n97 mini wrote: »

Tell the customers who missed their bus they're not in the same bracket!

The departure is 23:10 from Merrion Square it does not have any other timetabled point along the route, can you point to anywhere that says it leaves Westmoreland Street at 23:20 ? No reason for customers to miss that 66a above any other 66a from Westmoreland Street none of them are timed there.

Muahahaha

cdebru wrote: »

The last bus from the south side terminus does finish in the city centre, that's exactly what the c stands for ? If it leaves kimmage or Palmerston park or Limelkiln at 23:30 then that bus can obviously not be departing the city centre at 23:30.
There was a 140 due in Westmoreland St at 23:48 but it only goes as far as O'Connell Street the Dublin bus app lists it destination as O'Connell Street.

The 23:00 from Palmerston Park is the last bus going all the way over to Finglas it leaves O'Connell Street at 23:30 the 23:30 from Palmerston Park goes as far as O'Connell Street and that bus was due in Westmoreland Street at 23:48. Simple really !!!!

right now I get it, thanks for the explanation. I had just looked at the timetable and made the mistake of looking at the time of the last bus, i.e the 23.30 which terminates in the city centre.

n97 mini

cdebru wrote: »

The departure is 23:10 from Merrion Square it does not have any other timetabled point along the route, can you point to anywhere that says it leaves Westmoreland Street at 23:20 ?.

Used to be on the printed timetables on the poles up until recently (well, maybe up until a year ago).

LXFlyer

Muahahaha wrote: »

right now I get it, thanks for the explanation. I had just looked at the timetable and made the mistake of looking at the time of the last bus, i.e the 23.30 which terminates in the city centre.

That was the point I was making - the last through bus from the outer terminus on all cross-city routes that operates cross-city waits until 23:30 in the city centre before continuing onwards.

So for the 83 that's the 23:00 departure from Kimmage and the 23:00 departure from Harristown. They wait on Westmoreland St and D'Olier St respectively until 23:30.

The final departures on all cross-city routes from outer termini terminate in the city centre.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

Tell the customers who missed their bus they're not in the same bracket!

The 66a is not a cross-city route - my comments were all about cross-city routes.

howiya

The 27 towards Tallaght is reliable for holding in town at 23:30 unfortunately. On a very good day I can finish work and make the 22:30 departure from Clare Hall at Connolly station. On a normal day I don't and have to wait for the 23:00. When you include the dwell time at Eden Quay there is roughly 40 minutes between the two departures from city centre even though there's a departure every half hour on the timetable