Glasnevin Cemetery Monument.

Strazdas

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

A national hero.

He was not a pacifist - his Irish Volunteers numbered 80,000 before WWI, and he was preparing for the threatened civil war with the Unionists over Home Rule.

Instead the IRB went off half cocked in 1916, and exactly what MacNeill predicted happened - a lot of civilians got killed when the Rising was crushed.

And there was no way of knowing what would happen after the Rising. It could have ended as a fiasco and be remembered to this day as a fiasco. MacNeill was perfectly entitled to take the opinion he did and try and stop the Rising.

LorMal

flutered wrote: »

this happened on both side, i remember attending sporting fixtures in the north, the car being stopped, the barell of a gun shoved into my jaw and being told in a scouser or gordie accent to fcku off home to my own country, as for the bomning, were not the security forces in the north aiding and abetting the unionist hard men, with both material and intelligence, were not catholics being murdered, because of their religon, what about the dublin and monaghan bombings, did not the trousering party sit on their hands afterwards, you cannot throw all the schit ar the provos, they would not have existed only for desperation on the nationalist side, funny how 300 people from the nationalist slumbs could not be defeated by the paras etc

Whataboutery.

tomwaterford

LorMal wrote: »

Unionist? Where did you get that from?
As regards 'context' - that old chestnut is used to justify all sorts. Even ISIS cite 'context' for their violent actions.
It is not 'fantasy' to resist the desire to 'force someone to the negotiating table' through violence - the moral force of passive resistance proved highly successful in SA and India.

But it did take force at the end of the troubles to force the British to take negotiations seriously

They tried to string republicans along and it took massive bombings of London to focus minds
(Not saying it's right...but thems the facts)

uck51js9zml2yt

Esel wrote: »

It's a wall. Get over it.

Probably has anti climb paint on it:D

LorMal

tomwaterford wrote: »

But it did take force at the end of the troubles to force the British to take negotiations seriously

They tried to string republicans along and it took massive bombings of London to focus minds
(Not saying it's right...but thems the facts)

What a lot of crap. 'Focus minds'. That's your justification for them killing innocent people?

tomwaterford

LorMal wrote: »

What a lot of crap. 'Focus minds'. That's your justification for them killing innocent people?

I've not said it was right/justified...read again


But it deos show they had to be dragged to the negotiating table

Zubeneschamali

tomwaterford wrote: »

But it deos show they had to be dragged to the negotiating table

So that SF/IRA could negotiate what? Giving up the struggle and taking jobs administering the failed 6 county imperialist entity for their Westminster master?

They could have done that without bombs or talks at any time.

tomwaterford

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So that SF/IRA could negotiate what? Giving up the struggle and taking jobs administering the failed 6 county imperialist entity for their Westminster master?

They could have done that without bombs or talks at any time.

Well either that or let the British string them along like the home rulers :P


I don't actually think the GFA was worth losing a nights sleep over...no mind all those killed in the troubles and lives wasted in jail


But to say they could've given up at any time is naive tbh...bearing in mind greysteel and couple more massacres were carried out when the ira were on ceasefire

Asaiah

Aya Brave Smile wrote: »

That's actually a pretty stupid and ignorant thing to say.

The nationalist population of N.I. are making great strides in terms of work and in particular education, the foundations of this was laid by SF who were far sighted enough to realize this was were a successful future lay.

The nationalist population of N.I. are very well educated in comparison to the loyalist who have really been dumped on since the John Major's government.

I was not talking about Northern Ireland, I was talking about Dublin SF rent a mob Skangers.

Phoebas

tomwaterford wrote: »

But to say they could've given up at any time is naive tbh...bearing in mind greysteel and couple more massacres were carried out when the ira were on ceasefire

The Graysteel massacre took place in October 1993. The UDA claimed it was a retaliation for the IRA Skankill Road bombing just 7 days before.

The first IRA ceasefire started in August of the following year.

timthumbni

Phoebas wrote: »

The Graysteel massacre took place in October 1993. The UDA claimed it was a retaliation for the IRA Skankill Road bombing just 7 days before.

The first IRA ceasefire started in August of the following year.

I was about to post that if the IRA considered the shankill bombing a ceasefire then it would be slightly odd.

K-9

The Golden Miller wrote: »

An absolute farce that a supposedly impartial moderator is as openly biased against a certain viewpoint as yourself. No wonder fratton fred, sutch, timber, godge, billy and the rest get away with derailing every thread without so much as a warning. But sure, now we know why

Apologies.

Anyway, did ye Republicans have your split yet?

People's front of Judea or the Judean People's front?

Esel

K-9 wrote: »

Apologies.

Anyway, did ye Republicans have your split yet?

People's front of Judea or the Judean People's front?

Stone him! / her! / them!

Please don't throw me into the briar patch.

K-9

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Not a Sinn Fein supporter and I'd oppose the socialist/marxist ****e they stand for, but you present the IRA as if they were birthed in a vacuum, how did a group go from a lightly armed rag tag group to a heavily armed fully fledged guerrilla army in about the space of a decade, with widespread popular support within their community? What was the context? You are quick to cry about the IRA, yet completely ignore context, as is standard for the unionists on this thread.

As for violence not being a political strategy, très progressive, such a bland sentiment, utterly insulated from the conditions that would drive someone to view violence as a means to force someone to the negotiating table, its a stance not reflected in history. There is no "pure" political solution to apply as a blanket policy when you are dealing with human beings, its fantasy.

I'd wonder where the right side went. Civil rights and a fight against a supremacist state like South Africa ended up in something like the murder of Robert McCartney. An IRA police state left everybody in fear of telling the truth, and 10 years later nobody will rat on cold blooded murderers.

The IRA had the higher moral ground, they lost it along time ago.

Notice how I've mentioned John Hume a few times on this thread and not 1 "Republican" has tried to contradict that Hume won the war. You can't do whataboutery with Hume.

When Republicans, Loyalists and British combatants say "whatabout" that, ye were murdering baxtards same as us, just mention Hume, see then all scarper and evade the point.

Of course Hume supporters are now West Brits Republicans hard at the ould Revisionism they detest in others. Must do a Widgery report on the SDLP and Hume.

Yep, The Good Friday Agreement was Sunningdale for the slow learners.

Esel

Sunningdale ended officially on 17/04/1974.

Give the truth about 100 years to come out.

Other truths may take longer.

Berserker

K-9 wrote: »

Apologies.

Anyway, did ye Republicans have your split yet?

People's front of Judea or the Judean People's front?

Oh, they've split already, apparently. Did you know that Eirigi, RSF and SF, all hate each other apparently. Was up north for a while to avoid the 1916 'celebrations', so I missed all the fun with the monument. Don't get what the fuss is about the names. All the people on that wall were British.