Chill insurance can't transfer policy to new car

evosteo

so i just got a new motor today and rang up to transfer my policy across, went through all the boring stuff and then we seemed to hit a brick wall, he said he need an authorization code from the underwriter but they werent available to give it today. basically said theres nothing they can do till tuesday. no temporary cover, said there was nothing he could do. so here i am paying for extortionate insurnace for a car i no longer have and i have a new toy sitting in the garden that i cant uses for the next 3-4 days.

pi55ed of right now is lightly putting it. its after driving me into a rage

what a useless shower :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Stheno

What was your old car and what's the new one?

ba_barabus

Ring them back and speak to someone else

James Forde

Easter bank holiday weekend, to be expected really if the broker is closed.

evosteo

Stheno wrote: »

What was your old car and what's the new one?

old car 2002 1.3l mitsu colt

new car 2008 1.4 toyota auris,

30

10 years full licence

no claims

he said its something to do with my job been high risk. iv been in the same job for the last 12 years, cant believe the horse crap we have to deal with. :mad::mad::mad:

evosteo

James Forde wrote: »

Easter bank holiday weekend, to be expected really if the broker is closed.

but if my car had broke down or even worse id been in a crash and i needed a temp car. theres nothing they can do for me. i dunno but with the premiums we all have been paying recently im finding this a hard pill to swallow

Sinister Kid

Ring them back, you may not hit the same wall with a different rep.
I changed car last year an got the same story because the nct was 12 months out of date, despite me booking an nct & emailing it across to them straight away. I rang the next day, got a different person, they transfered everything across no problem & no mention of nct.

ASOT

The may not be able to get an override code off the underwriter because they closed but they are are to do a temporary vehichle substitution, Ring them back. It happens every Saturday in my job since the underwriters dont open.

Supergurrier

Lunatics in their 1.4 avensises

Keep those madmen off the roads

Atlantic Dawn

A 1.4 Avensis, are you sure it's 1.4?

peteb2

They're just brokers. They likely transact business electronically. So if the system is generating a referral then they and you are stuck till insurer is open.

peteb2

ASOT wrote:

The may not be able to get an override code off the underwriter because they closed but they are are to do a temporary vehichle substitution, Ring them back. It happens every Saturday in my job since the underwriters dont open.

Temp subs restricted to garage cars these days. So they won't have authority to do that either.

evosteo

Supergurrier wrote: »

Lunatics in their 1.4 avensises

Keep those madmen off the roads

auris sorry

ASOT

peteb2 wrote: »

Temp subs restricted to garage cars these days. So they won't have authority to do that either.

I have no trouble doing it daily for non garage cars in my job, which company did you hear of only allowing garage cars?

evosteo

peteb2 wrote: »

They're just brokers. They likely transact business electronically. So if the system is generating a referral then they and you are stuck till insurer is open.

surely they should have some sort of process in place for some sort of temporary cover. i mean like chill are open every Saturday till 5pm. what the point in them opening if they cant get quotes and amend polices from these underwriters???????

ASOT

evosteo wrote: »

surely they should have some sort of process in place for some sort of temporary cover. i mean like chill are open every Saturday till 5pm. what the point in them opening if they cant get quotes and amend polices from these underwriters???????

Just call and speak to somebody else, if the company I work for can do it they can do it. Advise them you just looking for temporary cover until they open on Tuesday, its as easy as leaving a note on your file with the new car details and the start and finish date of the temporary cover. They may charge you an administration fee.

peteb2

ASOT wrote:

I have no trouble doing it daily for non garage cars in my job, which company did you hear of only allowing garage cars?

Aig, axa, patrona. It's all the rage. We've a spreadsheet dedicated to it.

peteb2

Again above depends on your delegated authority.

Liam McPoyle

ASOT wrote: »

I have no trouble doing it daily for non garage cars in my job, which company did you hear of only allowing garage cars?

He means insurers do not accept temp sub's onto vehicles owned by the policy holder.

It doesn't have to be a garage car but the policy holder cannot be the registered owner.

peteb2

Nope. I meant it has to be from a garage. And not a mate.

goochy

So u bought a new car without arranging insurance first ? Clever .

evosteo

goochy wrote: »

So u bought a new car without arranging insurance first ? Clever .

Useful answer thanks

peteb2

Look, the moral of the story here is that you should always make any alterations during regular business hours when dealing with a broker. The only way this would have worked for you was if you were direct with an insurance company.

My office works till 5.30 but it doesn't mean we can do anything after 5pm if it requires an insurance company to approve it. So it doesn't matter if Chill opens Saturday.

evosteo

peteb2 wrote: »

Look, the moral of the story here is that you should always make any alterations during regular business hours when dealing with a broker. The only way this would have worked for you was if you were direct with an insurance company.

My office works till 5.30 but it doesn't mean we can do anything after 5pm if it requires an insurance company to approve it. So it doesn't matter if Chill opens Saturday.

Im now fully aware of this and will be considering it when choosing a new company at renewal. Thanks for the usefull answers. Mods please lock this thread thanks. Steve

grogi

evosteo wrote: »

Im now fully aware of this and will be considering it when choosing a new company at renewal. Thanks for the usefull answers. Mods please lock this thread thanks. Steve

Start a new policy over the internet, like through AA.

You'd get cover immediately - and cancel it after couple of days when you managed to transfer your old (or cancel that old one - depending on the transfer quote). You'll get full refund and only be charged a few quids administrative fees.

peteb2

grogi wrote:

You'd get cover immediately - and cancel it after couple of days when you managed to transfer your old (or cancel that old one - depending on the transfer quote). You'll get full refund and only be charged a few quids administrative fees.

No you won't. You'd be charged short term rates. You would have to lie and say you had a no claims bonus to use which you don't as you have a live policy . Or if you were even thinking of using cooling off period you'd wanna be sure you want to be sure nothing happened because you would have had no cover for the period of "new" policy

Billy86

I used to work for AonInsure.ie and the AA. Basically with these companies, they get better prices from the underwriters than you typically would direct (same way supermarkets get their stuff cheaper for buying in bulk, is my assumption at least). The problem is that these underwriters give set policies - so it's more like buying a suit off the shelf than getting it tailored. Where this can suck is that the underwriters are targeting a particular type of risk through that intermediary/brokerage and will not accept others. So while Zurich might be fine taking on a type of car, or 4 penalty points, directly, they might not offer any quote at all through the AA for someone with pp's, or for certain makes (even bland normal ones, not boy race mobiles). What that means is that is Zurich (via the AA) refuse to quote on Avensis' but are fine to quote Golfs, and you have a Golf and go with them... switching to an Avensis mid-year can potentially cause major issues.

For everyone: if you use the AA, Chill, AonInsure or any company who deals with a large number of underwriters, make sure to double check before changing the car! I find it hugely irresponsible that they do not make this clearer at the time.

I usually worked new business so it wasn't an issue I came across much, but did a bit of customer service in the AA when demand was high and in AonInsure after 123.ie bought them out and they were winding down. On one instance I had someone who was 'downsizing' from a 2l BMW to a 1.3 Gold (might have been Polo, think it was a Golf) and I had to tell them their insurance was going to go up by €180 for the year. Then again twice something similar happened in reverse, and I got to tell them their bigger, stronger car had saved them a good few bob on the insurance!

It was odd that the underwriter wouldn't treat it as a temp substitution though, and that they have reservations on a Toyota less than 10 years old. Because one thing I remember well about making new business quotes was being delighted hearing the car was a Toyota... underwriters will happily kill each other to get those on their books. Very low risk, and usually a low risk profile to the driver too.

peteb2

peteb2 wrote: »

Temp subs restricted to garage cars these days. So they won't have authority to do that either.

Ole lad did a temp sub in early March, twice. Not a garage car.

peteb2

Billy86 wrote:

It was odd that the underwriter wouldn't treat it as a temp substitution though, and that they have reservations on a Toyota less than 10 years old. Because one thing I remember well about making new business quotes was being delighted hearing the car was a Toyota... underwriters will happily kill each other to get those on their books. Very low risk, and usually a low risk profile to the driver too.

We've already explained why not temp sub. If you can't get a permanent change you won't get a temp

Billy86 wrote:

For everyone: if you use the AA, Chill, AonInsure or any company who deals with a large number of underwriters, make sure to double check before changing the car! I find it hugely irresponsible that they do not make this clearer at the time.

What's irresponsible? That when you go on cover for one car they don't tell you then that in the future premiums may go up or down depending on the car grouping should you change?? You can't have been that long in insurance

grogi

peteb2 wrote: »

No you won't. You'd be charged short term rates. You would have to lie and say you had a no claims bonus to use which you don't as you have a live policy . Or if you were even thinking of using cooling off period you'd wanna be sure you want to be sure nothing happened because you would have had no cover for the period of "new" policy

If you cancel withing 14 days, you get 100% refund. From T&C: "If You cancel during Your Cooling off Period, Your Insurer will refund You the full premium providing no claims have been made on Your policy"

matt-dublin

grogi wrote: »

If you cancel withing 14 days, you get 100% refund. From T&C: "If You cancel during Your Cooling off Period, Your Insurer will refund You the full premium providing no claims have been made on Your policy"

Yup, I remember a fella I know used to run Quinn direct and do this, get insured for the 10 days on a dirtbox. When it was up he would sell the car on and get the bus. Then do it all over again!

peteb2

grogi wrote: »

If you cancel withing 14 days, you get 100% refund. From T&C: "If You cancel during Your Cooling off Period, Your Insurer will refund You the full premium providing no claims have been made on Your policy"

Yes but you are missing the point. The "cancellation" is from the date the policy was taken out. So you effectively never had cover for that period. So if something every arose and you had to produce insurance cover for that time, you couldn't.

Liam McPoyle

peteb2 wrote: »

Yes but you are missing the point. The "cancellation" is from the date the policy was taken out. So you effectively never had cover for that period. So if something every arose and you had to produce insurance cover for that time, you couldn't.

It's good to see some people know what they are talking about when giving advice about something as potentially troublesome as motor insurance. Some of the advice I've read in here over the years is flabbergasting!

peteb2

peteb2 wrote: »

Temp subs restricted to garage cars these days. So they won't have authority to do that either.

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

It's good to see some people know what they are talking about when giving advice about something as potentially troublesome as motor insurance. Some of the advice I've read in here over the years is flabbergasting!

I wouldn't give him too much credit

To Elland Back

Augeo wrote: »

I wouldn't give him too much credit

I think peteb2 is highlighting a trend for insurers beginning to restrict temp subs to vehicles provided by garages. Trust me, if some head down this route, all will follow in due course. The more that smart buckos abuse a handy policy benefit, the more likely it will be withdrawn

grogi

peteb2 wrote: »

Yes but you are missing the point. The "cancellation" is from the date the policy was taken out. So you effectively never had cover for that period. So if something every arose and you had to produce insurance cover for that time, you couldn't.

No, you cannot have it both ways.

The state of the policy at certain point of time cannot be different if observed from two different points of time. I cannot say it wasn't there on the 25th when yesterday I was saying it had been valid.

The policy might be void from the beginning (if one provided untruthful information) and such fact remained undiscovered, but the state of the policy does not change. If your policy if void, it is void for the whole period.

Cancellation does not void the policy. It just terminates it.

To Elland Back wrote: »

I think peteb2 is highlighting a trend for insurers beginning to restrict temp subs to vehicles provided by garages. Trust me, if some head down this route, all will follow in due course. The more that smart buckos abuse a handy policy benefit, the more likely it will be withdrawn

Absolutely. The more abuse, the more push against it. Usually to the general public disadvantage.

Billy86

peteb2 wrote: »

We've already explained why not temp sub. If you can't get a permanent change you won't get a temp

I've got people granted t-subs for non garage cars before through Kennco and AIG/Chartis. Though true enough, one thing I did miss is that the OP owns the vehicle.

What's irresponsible? That when you go on cover for one car they don't tell you then that in the future premiums may go up or down depending on the car grouping should you change?? You can't have been that long in insurance

I was referring to being denied coverage on your new vehicle, not just a rate increase. That should have been obvious as it is exactly what I was talking about in the paragraph prior.

I did get out of insurance after about 18 months since you seem curious. It's the most vile industry around, and really is just rotten to the core. More than glad I'm done with that.

To Elland Back

To Elland Back wrote: »

I think peteb2 is highlighting a trend for insurers beginning to restrict temp subs to vehicles provided by garages. Trust me, if some head down this route, all will follow in due course. The more that smart buckos abuse a handy policy benefit, the more likely it will be withdrawn

He said "Temp subs restricted to garage cars these days." that was a blanket statement, not a statement suggesting a trend, as myself and others have mentioned insurers (some) are still doing temp subs.

My own broker has offered me a free temp sub at any time over the period of my cover as there was an issue on their side resulting in my disc and docs being sent out a week later than they initially said they'd be. I'm with Liberty. Now I don't expect to use it but I did need a temp sub a year ago.

To Elland Back

Augeo wrote: »

My own broker has offered me a free temp sub at any time over the period of my cover.......

Firstly, a broker cannot commit an insurer to agree ANYTHING other than the original contract and, secondly, no insurer is OBLIGED to offer temporary substitutions and can therefore alter their current practice at any stage within your policy period

To Elland Back

To Elland Back wrote: »

Firstly, a broker cannot commit an insurer to agree ANYTHING other than the original contract and, secondly, no insurer is OBLIGED to offer temporary substitutions and can therefore alter their current practice at any stage within your policy period

Secondly it's clear at the moment the insurer my broker is referring to will facilitate temp' subs

To Elland Back

Augeo wrote: »

Secondly it's clear at the moment the insurer my broker is referring to will facilitate temp' subs

Could change tomorrow and there is nothing your broker can do about it. Like I said earlier, abuse of usual benefits is seeing them withdrawn on a regular basis

peteb2

Augeo wrote: »

He said "Temp subs restricted to garage cars these days." that was a blanket statement, not a statement suggesting a trend, as myself and others have mentioned insurers (some) are still doing temp subs.

My own broker has offered me a free temp sub at any time over the period of my cover as there was an issue on their side resulting in my disc and docs being sent out a week later than they initially said they'd be. I'm with Liberty. Now I don't expect to use it but I did need a temp sub a year ago.

Oh I'm so so sorry Augeo :rolleyes: It has been highlighted by members of staff in the office where I work (in the last few weeks) that a growing number of insurers are restricting temporary vehicle changes to that of cars owned by garages i.e. car goes for a service and you get a lender, test driving a car before buying,

You'll probably find some places are a bit slow on remembering to ask the specific question.

A free temp sub??? Wow!! you mean they wont charge you a fee for it? Bargain!

peteb2

grogi wrote: »

No, you cannot have it both ways.

The state of the policy at certain point of time cannot be different if observed from two different points of time. I cannot say it wasn't there on the 25th when yesterday I was saying it had been valid.

The policy might be void from the beginning (if one provided untruthful information) and such fact remained undiscovered, but the state of the policy does not change. If your policy if void, it is void for the whole period.

Cancellation does not void the policy. It just terminates it.

And you think an insurer wouldn't charge for that period of cover?? They would. its called short term rates. What one person was suggesting was that the OP relies on the 14 day cooling off period that allows you to void your policy from the inception date on the basis it didn't suits your needs or whatever your reason. His language was wrong in using the word cancellation, I didn't see the point in correcting his language. I thought I was clear enough.

peteb2

Augeo wrote: »

Secondly it's clear at the moment the insurer my broker is referring to will facilitate temp' subs

Yeah they all facilitate temp subs.........subject to their criteria :eek:

grogi

peteb2 wrote: »

And you think an insurer wouldn't charge for that period of cover?? They would. its called short term rates. What one person was suggesting was that the OP relies on the 14 day cooling off period that allows you to void your policy from the inception date on the basis it didn't suits your needs or whatever your reason. His language was wrong in using the word cancellation, I didn't see the point in correcting his language. I thought I was clear enough.

You cannot void a policy in the past. Law and contracts don't work backwards.

The policy was either void from the beginning or is terminated from the point one takes action. It could be argued that the intention to cancel the policy existed when the contract was agreed and hence voids the policy from the beginning - but it is long shoot.

If the provider accepts cooling-off period cancellation once the provision of services have already begun - and they are not obliged to do so, but some still allow that - the policy remains valid until you cancel it.

peteb2

grogi wrote: »

You cannot void a policy in the past. Law and contracts don't work backwards.

The policy was either void from the beginning or is terminated from the point one takes action. It could be argued that the intention to cancel the policy existed when the contract was agreed and hence voids the policy from the beginning - but it is long shoot.

If the provider accepts cooling-off period cancellation once the provision of services have already begun - and they are not obliged to do so, but some still allow that - the policy remains valid until you cancel it.

This isn't law. And its consumer protection code. Yet again you are missing my point. If within 14 days you decide the policy is not suitable for your needs you can have the policy voided ab initio as if no cover existed.

And yet again let me restate that someone else suggested that was a way to cover a car in its short term. I pointed out why you couldn't. Read further back in the thread than just the current page you see please.

peteb2

grogi wrote: »

You cannot void a policy in the past. Law and contracts don't work backwards.

The policy was either void from the beginning or is terminated from the point one takes action. It could be argued that the intention to cancel the policy existed when the contract was agreed and hence voids the policy from the beginning - but it is long shoot.

If the provider accepts cooling-off period cancellation once the provision of services have already begun - and they are not obliged to do so, but some still allow that - the policy remains valid until you cancel it.

There ya go buddy! Taken from the AA motor policy booklet. Maybe that explains it for your legal brain.

Cooling off Period
The period in which You have the right to withdraw from this policy provided there has been no claim made. You can withdraw within 14 days of the starting date of cover or the date which You receive the full terms and conditions of the policy, whichever is later. Choosing to exercise this right will mean that no policy was ever in place and will entitle You to a full refund of any premium paid. No claim may be made at a later date.

grogi

peteb2 wrote: »

There ya go buddy! Taken from the AA motor policy booklet. Maybe that explains it for your legal brain.

Cooling off Period
The period in which You have the right to withdraw from this policy provided there has been no claim made. You can withdraw within 14 days of the starting date of cover or the date which You receive the full terms and conditions of the policy, whichever is later. Choosing to exercise this right will mean that no policy was ever in place and will entitle You to a full refund of any premium paid. No claim may be made at a later date.

Which contradicts with:
CONDITION 4 - Cancellation
Please note that if You cancel Your car insurance policy or it is cancelled by AAI or Your Insurer for any reason then all policy benefits shall automatically be cancelled on the same date. Any cancellation by You, the Insurer or AAI will not affect any rights and responsibilities arising before cancellation takes place.

And excercising the right to withdraw during the cooling-off period is a cancellation - it is listed later on when the conditions state how much will be refunded after policy is cancelled.


I wonder what takes priority... Either way it is too risky, a claim will be a big pain...

peteb2

Yes which was exactly my fuxcking point! Sweet mother of God! Read back a little further, like from the start!

monkeynuz

grogi wrote: »

Which contradicts with:
CONDITION 4 - Cancellation
Please note that if You cancel Your car insurance policy or it is cancelled by AAI or Your Insurer for any reason then all policy benefits shall automatically be cancelled on the same date. Any cancellation by You, the Insurer or AAI will not affect any rights and responsibilities arising before cancellation takes place.

And excercising the right to withdraw during the cooling-off period is a cancellation - it is listed later on when the conditions state how much will be refunded after policy is cancelled.


I wonder what takes priority... Either way it is too risky, a claim will be a big pain...

Surely cancellation and cooling off period are two completely different things?

peteb2

peteb2 wrote: »

Oh I'm so so sorry Augeo :rolleyes: It has been highlighted by members of staff in the office where I work (in the last few weeks) that a growing number of insurers are restricting temporary vehicle changes to that of cars owned by garages i.e. car goes for a service and you get a lender, test driving a car before buying...............

Good to see you correcting the earlier incorrect info you posted, keep at the insurance game anyway, great career for some