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Child Item

Giving women time off for periods

py2006

There seems to be a bit of talk brewing lately on the subject of women being allowed a couple days off a month. I have never heard of this before. How do you think this would affect the Irish work force if it were introduced here? or indeed would it have an affect?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kawr9yAzrAI

In Indonesia, under the Labor Act of 1948, women have a right to two days of menstrual leave per month.[9]

In Japan, Article 68 of the Labour Standards Law states "When a woman for whom work during menstrual periods would be specially difficult has requested leave, the employer shall not employ such woman on days of the menstrual period."[10][11] While Japanese law requires that a woman going through especially difficult menstruation be allowed to take leave, it does not require companies to provide paid leave or extra pay for women who choose to work during menstruation.

In Korea, not only are female employees entitled to menstrual leave according to the Article 71 of the Labour Standards Law,[12] but they are also ensured additional pay if they do not take the menstrual leave that they are entitled to.[13]

The Philippines government considered the House Bill 4888, known as the Menstruation Leave Act of 2008, which was initiated by the Alliance of Rural Concern (ARC) representative. The bill aimed to grant mandatory menstruation leave to all private and government female employees, except those pregnant and menopausal, at half pay.[14]

In Russia, a draft law was proposed in 2013 to give women two days paid leave per month during menstruation.[15]

In Taiwan, the Act of Gender Equality in Employment gives women three days of "menstrual leave" per year, which will not be calculated toward the 30 days of "common sick leave", giving women up to 33 days of "health-related leaves" per year. The extra three days do not come with half-pays once a woman employee exceeds the regulated 30.[16]

In Hong Kong, although the government has not enacted any law regarding menstrual leave yet, but some institutions and companies do have menstruation leave for female staff, sometimes a menstrual leave is applicable for female students.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/period-pain-leave-work-2639965-Mar2016/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/menstrual-leave-period-pain-womens-rights-a6907261.html

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/mar/04/period-policy-asia-menstrual-leave-japan-women-work

http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/news/6969716/UK-companys-new-period-policy-set-to-give-women-time-off-work-during-their-monthly-cycle.html

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[Deleted User]

Shenshen wrote: »

I googled it - there seems to be a certain pill out there that can delay periods, and some one or two that will reduce the number of periods a woman has each year. From what I can tell, these aren't licensed in Ireland, though?

I was under the impression they totally stop it but maybe I was wrong. Still I haven't seen the people I've know well enough to know they were on it to ever need tampons etc while on it which was why I had the impression they didn't have periods while on it, not exactly something I would have been researching.

Don't remember a different pill being taken either certain weeks, always from the same packet and the same colour pill.

Speedwell

Shenshen wrote: »

I googled it - there seems to be a certain pill out there that can delay periods, and some one or two that will reduce the number of periods a woman has each year. From what I can tell, these aren't licensed in Ireland, though?

Some BCPs do make your periods lighter... not that light, though. A lot of women don't use tampons anyway; the moon cup enables you to go up to 12 hours without having to attend to yourself. Since the typical workday is only about 8 to 10 hours, it makes no difference to most women in most jobs whether they are having a period or not.

It is possible, incidentally, to take ordinary BCPs in such a way that periods don't happen for months at a time. They're not real periods that you have on BCPs anyway, just withdrawal bleeds. The fact that you could take BCPs in such a way as to mimic a natural monthly cycle was one of the workarounds that early developers used to make them more palatable to women and to the establishment. But there's absolutely no problem, provided it is OK with a woman and her health team, in just skipping the week of different-colored pills and starting a new pack right away.

Kovu

Harry Salty Candlestick wrote: »

Women I've known on it certainly haven't had them.

It's different for everyone but it certainly won't go away completely on 'the pill'.
Yasmin for example has three weeks on the pill, then one off to allow the period. You can continue taking the pill to 'skip' a period one month but you'll get it at some point.

Nice ninja edit changing 'people' to 'women' btw. :P

I don't think it should be seen as different to sick leave, I certainly wouldn't like the whole office knowing I was away because of it. I'd rather just have them as sick days or if really bad every month, get a doctor to write me up something and could explain it to the boss if needed.

intheclouds

There are some pills that cause periods to stop completely for some women. Its not a guarantee that all women will be affected the same way.

The mirena coil may also stop periods completely - again dependent on the individual woman in question.

Most pills do not have this effect.

runawaybishop

Shenshen wrote: »

I googled it - there seems to be a certain pill out there that can delay periods, and some one or two that will reduce the number of periods a woman has each year. From what I can tell, these aren't licensed in Ireland, though?

Nah, some (yasmin for example) weaken the period so it can often be unnoticeable.

py2006

*Closes eyes while typing*

Can we get back to how this, if implemented here, may have an affect on the work force?

Speedwell

What effect could it possibly have? Women who can work will work, or risk being called on the carpet for excessive absenteeism. Women who can't work will take time off like they currently do with sick leave. If employers don't give enough sick leave, then that's another question.

py2006

Speedwell wrote: »

What effect could it possibly have? Women who can work will work, or risk being called on the carpet for excessive absenteeism. Women who can't work will take time off like they currently do with sick leave. If employers don't give enough sick leave, then that's another question.

I think this is separate to sick leave, it is actually and extra 2 paid days off a month. Unless I read it wrong?

beach_walker

How about we have a system where if you're too sick to work, then you don't. Man or woman. For heavy and repeated chronic conditions, a doctor could provide a cert.

Wait, we already have that!

Ice Maiden

py2006 wrote: »

*Closes eyes while typing*

Can we get back to how this, if implemented here, may have an affect on the work force?

Huh? If people avail of it, the workforce will be down resources. What exactly are you trying to gauge?

Ice Maiden

py2006 wrote: »

I think this is separate to sick leave, it is actually and extra 2 paid days off a month. Unless I read it wrong?

Is it automatic? In which case there would be no taking advantage, if it just applies anyway. No need for it though.

py2006

Ice Maiden wrote: »

Huh? If people avail of it, the workforce will be down resources. What exactly are you trying to gauge?

Just getting opinions is all.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

It's a bit stupid to give people days off automatically for anything. I mean, can i have a couple of Mondays off because I'm naturally going to have a hangover...?!

If you're sick, for whatrever reason, phone in sick.

(I could also see potential discrimination problems here where employers will favour men simply because they're not going to need the extra days off)

Ice Maiden

py2006 wrote: »

Just getting opinions is all.

But people did give opinions. As for affecting the workforce, yes, they would be down staff.

intheclouds

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

(I could also see potential discrimination problems here where employers will favour men simply because they're not going to need the extra days off)

Maternity Leave?

(it already fosters discrimination but usually unprovable).

[Deleted User]

As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, it might make women less employable again, like back when women were seen to be a liability once they married, because they'd go off having babies.

That aside, if a woman's periods are severe enough to prevent her working, that's a medical condition and can be certified. By all means give her time off. But in general? What madness is this?!

Ice Maiden

Deleted User wrote: »

As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, it might make women less employable again, like back when women were seen to be a liability once they married, because they'd go off having babies.

That aside, if a woman's periods are severe enough to prevent her working, that's a medical condition and can be certified. By all means give her time off. But in general? What madness is this?!

One that isn't actually happening, but I think someone may be trying to turn it into a reality of doom exploited by unscrupulous women.

keeponhurling

Thoie wrote: »

Do you take it away from them again when they hit menopause? Is there some kind of obligation to announce your menopause?

I'm thinking some sort of a regular update could be provided , like a newsletter.
It could be circulated to all employees, so they are aware of their colleagues' availability.

ScumLord

I don't know how useful it would be. It seems that women who always get painful periods are in a minority, and painful periods are not the norm for most other women. That would mean that most the time women are just fine working during their period. It's seems a bit draconian to send every woman home for two days each month if they don't need to.

If women are having a particularly bad period they should be able to go to their employer and take a sick day. That's what sick days are for.

maudgonner

py2006 wrote: »

I think this is separate to sick leave, it is actually and extra 2 paid days off a month. Unless I read it wrong?

In one of your examples (the Philippines) - the draft law proposed mandatory leave.
In another (Korea - I'm assuming South Korea) women would be paid extra if they chose not to avail of the optional leave.
In the others, as best I can tell, the leave is optional and can be taken as required. So essentially it is sick leave, but presumably just an extra allowance to the maximum sick leave that can be claimed.

Ice Maiden

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't know how useful it would be. It seems that women who always get painful periods are in a minority, and painful periods are not the norm for most other women. That would mean that most the time women are just fine working during their period. It's seems a bit draconian to send every woman home for two days each month if they don't need to.

If women are having a particularly bad period they should be able to go to their employer and take a sick day. That's what sick days are for.

Pretty much the general consensus.

maudgonner

keeponhurling wrote: »

I'm thinking some sort of a regular update could be provided , like a newsletter.
It could be circulated to all employees, so they are aware of their colleagues' availability.

Also badges to indicate fertility status and what point in the cycle you're at. Like a countdown clock.

Speedwell

I once worked for an employer that gave us one optional (use it or lose it) "sick of work day" each month, to be used as and when we pleased. We had enough people to cover in most cases, though, and people were pretty responsible about it. Some women did use it for their worst cramp day on occasion; a few used it for a hangover day. In any event it didn't disrupt anything too badly.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

intheclouds wrote: »

Maternity Leave?

(it already fosters discrimination but usually unprovable).

True, but women don;t get pregnant every month.

intheclouds

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

True, but women don;t get pregnant every month.

No, but it can and does cause serious problems when multiple women in one department take maternity leave at the same time. Or when one woman takes maternity leave, comes back, announces she is pregnant and then takes the next maternity leave etc... We had a lady who had 5 children in 8 years in my last job so for all that time she only did the job a few months here and there.

[Deleted User]

Thoie wrote: »

Do you take it away from them again when they hit menopause? Is there some kind of obligation to announce your menopause? What about women with irregular cycles? Or very very irregular cycles?

Do you have to provide proof that you're having a period? What (body)form would that take?

Sooo many questions.

Tampon inspectors, now there's a niche job title.

I've fainted with the pain of periods, been left blind in one eye from menstrual migraines, been barely able to walk with cramps if I don't get the medicine into me in time.

Nothing seems to wipe it out, although certain medications can and do allieviate it. My mum is a ob/gyn and has made sure I've had every investigation possible on more than one occasion, but the investigations don't show up any particular cause, so it's not that I haven't tried. I get by with strong medication and the knowledge that it won't last more than 48/55 hours.

When I take time off, its a regular sick day. I would dearly love the opportunity to take 48 hours off when it was bad, no questions asked, but I don't think it can - or should - happen. It would be another reason to avoid employing women, and another stick to beat all women with. So I'll go home and faint from pain on my own time, and chew painkillers and keep on keeping on.

py2006

Candie wrote: »

I've fainted with the pain of periods, been left blind in one eye from menstrual migraines

Jesus, hopefully only temporarily??

ceadaoin.

It's not giving women time off, just allowing them to be more flexible with when they work. They still have to make up the time they didn't work so will still work the same amount of hours in a month.

Most women probably won't have to use it but at least those that do have the option.

[Deleted User]

py2006 wrote: »

Jesus, hopefully only temporarily??

Up to three days at a time, if it's bad, but thankfully temporarily.

py2006

Candie wrote: »

Up to three days at a time, if it's bad, but thankfully temporarily.

Wow sorry to hear that. Never realised they got that bad.