Cheap wedding photography business, does a market exist?

bigpink

bren2002 wrote: »

Is that the old market though? Is the market shifting?

Not an expert but if anything the competition is greater so better service is winning through

bren2002

Paulw wrote: »

Is it? How? Where? To what?

To a younger person who doesn't buy a physical book, has never bought or owned a cd or DVD. Who consumes everything electronically and wants it all instantly.

Bacchus

bren2002 wrote: »

Why is it daft? Scale it.
That's where traditional photographers struggle, there's too much reliance on personality and reputation they can't easily scale.

Excuse my ignorance but how do you "scale" wedding photography? It's not as if you can have some sort of "Wedding-Photography-as-a-Service" running on the Cloud.

Also, personality and reputation are huge things to take into consideration. Particularly the personality. Who wants a stick in the mud hanging out with them on their wedding day. Photographers bring a lot more to the day than pointing and clicking. They have a huge creative and organisational input into your day.

Bacchus

bren2002 wrote: »

To a younger person who doesn't buy a physical book, has never bought or owned a cd or DVD. Who consumes everything electronically and wants it all instantly.

You can also point to the surge in Vinyl sales that people are longing to reconnect with physical media in an age where everything is digital.

screamer

bren2002 wrote: »

Is that the old market though? Is the market shifting?

No. I can tell you the vast majority of brides want everything very traditional the pomp the ceremony the lot they just dont want to pay for it. They want the service and the princess treatment but they don't want to pay for your time. TBH if a model such as you are talking about would worked id have thought photoboiths would be the norm at every wedding but they are on the slide. automation and big day don't go together. I've never been to a self service buffet wedding reception with those hot counters used for breakfast and the guests including the couple lining up to serve their own dinners........

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

bren2002 wrote: »

Why is it daft? Scale it.
That's where traditional photographers struggle, there's too much reliance on personality and reputation they can't easily scale.

Without a personality, the sale is going to be incredibly difficult. IMO, personality is what sells many packages.

bren2002

screamer wrote: »

No. I can tell you the vast majority of brides want everything very traditional the pomp the ceremony the lot they just dont want to pay for it. They want the service and the princess treatment but they don't want to pay for your time. TBH if a model such as you are talking about would worked id have thought photoboiths would be the norm at every wedding but they are on the slide. automation and big day don't go together. I've never been to a self service buffet wedding reception with those hot counters used for breakfast and the guests including the couple lining up to serve their own dinners........

See that's interesting, you're seeing the 99c software and never paid for music mentality. Possibly crossed with the Pinterest lifestyle!

bren2002

Bacchus wrote: »

You can also point to the surge in Vinyl sales that people are longing to reconnect with physical media in an age where everything is digital.

This would be niche though, you'd have to concede that

bren2002

Bria Beautiful Umbrella wrote: »

Without a personality, the sale is going to be incredibly difficult. IMO, personality is what sells many packages.

Can you change the package though. Who really wants all the makeup shots of people running around in pjs.

stoplooklisten

Cianmcliam wrote: »

You'd be working well below minimum wage at that point, unless you do 'shoot & burn' with no post-processing. Can't see that market taking off.

I got that "shoot & burn" as you call it and it worked for me!

I have all the originals, can print out as many albums with as many pictures as I like and I didn't have to wait months.

Paulw

bren2002 wrote: »

See that's interesting, you're seeing the 99c software and never paid for music mentality. Possibly crossed with the Pinterest lifestyle!

Sure why not give it a go, and come back in a year and let us know how your business is doing?

bren2002

stoplooklisten wrote: »

I got that "shoot & burn" as you call it and it worked for me!

I have all the originals, can print out as many albums with as many pictures as I like and I didn't have to wait months.

Can I ask how much you paid?

screamer

bren2002 wrote: »

See that's interesting, you're seeing the 99c software and never paid for music mentality. Possibly crossed with the Pinterest lifestyle!

I'll let you in on a secret OP rmthise with that mentality all expect this Rolls Royce service (and you'll find they book 5* hotels and shrimp on everything else ). Time is money and after having your heart broken with a few bridezillas as I like to call them you'll wonder why did you ever think this was a good idea. It's neither scaleable not saleable. They all think they're on don't tell the bride and out to get everything their heart desires on whatever they think it's worth spending on it. Stay clear of the penny pincher market there are realistic couples out there who appreciate and value artistic work and nice suppliers. That's my target market.

Bacchus

bren2002 wrote: »

This would be niche though, you'd have to concede that

I don't think anyone needs to be conceding anything. You're making a fairly tenuous argument based on very little (mostly speculation that SnapChat and Instagram will replace the desire for a wedding photographer) and I just pointed to a growing market that opposes that argument. Also, the time lag should be factored in here too. Social media has been going for about 10 years and only really peaked in the last 5 years. This move back towards physical media has only really taken off in the last year or two. I think we'll see as these young pups get their own places and set down roots, they'll want to fill it with things that make them happy. Print's not dead.

bren2002

I was just making the point that vinyl is niche.

I'm exploring an idea on a discussion forum, nothing else.

Bacchus

bren2002 wrote: »

Can you change the package though. Who really wants all the makeup shots of people running around in pjs.

Plenty of people do

And then you have the market that doesn't want all that. I think it should be clear that there is a market for all sorts of different package and prices in Ireland. No one is arguing that.

However, this idea of automating wedding photography with technology... that's a niche market and not one that is going to pay much. As I said though, come up with an idea to do it successfully and you'll be rich.

Bacchus

bren2002 wrote: »

I was just making the point that vinyl is niche.

I'm exploring an idea on a discussion forum, nothing else.

And that's grand... just don't tell me I "have" to concede a point when nothing of the sort is required.

bren2002

To be clear. Thanks to everyone who contributed. I very much value being challenged.

Homer

Presumably you will be declaring your revenue as a wedding photographer which means you can instantly deduct 30% or so from your fee for a start for future tax payments?

A professional photographer will generally visit the location of the wedding in advance to scout locations. Have you factored that in or just going to wing it on the day of the wedding?
A professional photographer will have invested a substantial amount of money in cameras, lenses and lighting equipment. Equipment fails so you need to have backups. Hard to recoup your money at €300 a wedding!
A professional photographer needs to have professional indemnity insurance and public liability insurance (some venues won't allow photographers to shoot without this) Have you thought about this?

Interested to hear your thoughts on those points.

screamer

OP I'm not saying don't try it I'm just sharing my "if I knew then what I know now" with you and it's something I wish I would have had shared with me when I started out. Do let us know how you get on with it all im very intrigued anyways and good luck.

bigpink

Whats your model out of interest?

Bacchus

bren2002 wrote: »

To be clear. Thanks to everyone who contributed. I very much value being challenged.

The question of attitudes to wedding photography will change is a valid one but I think we're looking 10 years out for the impact to be felt (when those millennials are hitting their late 20s / early 30s. Right now, the market is there for both high end and low end photographers. IMO, the demand is growing for better quality but there are still plenty of people who just want a bog standard job to get a few family photos.

My own bet is that high end photographers will grow in the demand but there will ALWAYS be plenty of people looking for €500 photographers. The problem there is that it is a crowded market and will become even moreso in the next 10 years. The idea of somehow automating the process hasn't come across clearly from what you are saying. Many of your proposed innovations to reduce costs already exist and are used by photographers today so what you're missing it the "killer solution" to bring us to your line of thinking that "yes, you can offer an automated wedding photography service for €300 that is sustainable and successful".

baby and crumble

As someone who has an interest in photography and who has just booked a photographer, I know I was wary of anyone who would do a wedding for less than about €1000.

I love social media and having photographs digitally available but I also want an album at some stage, and I think many couples who are at wedding age now feel the same.

Funnily enough, both my brother and my best mate were seriously disappointed in their photographer, because they didn't actually meet them first. They had no idea who this guy was really when he showed up. We had an engagement shoot with ours before we booked her for the wedding and have seen proof positive of her work, and her personality and how she works. We're now following each other on Instagram and I guess building an idea of what we're like. Does that make sense? You can't get that level of relationship and confidence with an automated service that's costing less than a few hundred euro.

I've never understood the mentality of "sure all they're doing is taking photos, my Uncle does that!" or "They're there for 6 hours, jaysis great job to be getting paid €200 an hour, ahaha!" These photos are going to be with you, hopefully, the rest of your life. Why would you skimp on them but have no issue paying €800 for a round of drinks for a toast? It's bizarre logic.

The Ging and I

Just a SMALL point but if you become a wedding photographer - theres a lot of people depending on you. Its their day after all.

Straight Edge Punk

Is it OK to name a wedding photographer so the poster can see what he is up against?

bren2002

Or pm me?

Homer

Straight Edge Punk wrote: »

Is it OK to name a wedding photographer so the poster can see what he is up against?

I suppose if other wedding photographers are being mentioned then their price bracket should also be included so we are comparing apples with apples.

Bacchus

I was thinking there on my drive home. At the OPs proposed rate of €300, you really would struggle to make a living.

During peak summer you have Friday and Saturday weddings in abundance. You'll also get some Sunday and mid week weddings. Remember though you are competing against many other photographers. Also, in winter there's slimmer pickings. So let's just say a realistic upper limit of 100 weddings. For a start, that's a huge amount of work and I don't know if it'd be achievable (maybe after a few years building a reputation).

So, with these 100 weddings at €300 a pop, you come out with the grand total of €30,000. Of course, this is taxed, you have about €400 in insurance to pay, you have equipment costs and you have travel costs. It's just not feasible or sustainable.

Synchronicity

Bacchus wrote: »

I was thinking there on my drive home. At the OPs proposed rate of €300, you really would struggle to make a living.

During peak summer you have Friday and Saturday weddings in abundance. You'll also get some Sunday and mid week weddings. Remember though you are competing against many other photographers. Also, in winter there's slimmer pickings. So let's just say a realistic upper limit of 100 weddings. For a start, that's a huge amount of work and I don't know if it'd be achievable (maybe after a few years building a reputation).

So, with these 100 weddings at €300 a pop, you come out with the grand total of €30,000. Of course, this is taxed, you have about €400 in insurance to pay, you have equipment costs and you have travel costs. It's just not feasible or sustainable.

Maybe his secret technology involves cloning himself.

PhoenixParker

I think there might be an uptapped market at the lower end for what's called an "elopement package" in the US.

Not everyone has a big fancy 200 people wedding or wants the full princess treatment, but many who don't still want photos better than uncle Bob and his camera.

Think immediate family only + dinner type weddings. No getting ready photos, photographer arrives just prior to the ceremony, takes a few "nervous waiting" type shots, covers the ceremony, family groups are shot and then bride and groom by themselves and then the photographer heads off for the evening. 3 hours of coverage total or thereabouts.

There'd be far fewer shots to edit, and it's not such a taxing day as a normal wedding. Probably looking at more weekday business too since there's fewer people needing time off work. On the other hand you still can't fit in two weddings a day.

E300 still wouldn't be worth your while but you could certainly undercut many in the market who prefer to work full days.