Terminator: Dark Fate **Spoilers from post 983**

sirmanga

Calhoun wrote: »

I think looking back now when he said this he did so to try and garner excitement/marketing for the film. Which at times is a sign of the quality of a film.

I have no idea why a filmmaker would come out with such nonsense. It's such a turn off for audiences, just look at Ghostbusters 2016. Miller was basically implying that if you don't like the idea of these tough, dull female characters then you hate women.
No, how about making them interesting, relatable and believable. Many longtime Terminator fans were annoyed by Miller's remarks, because they saw the trailers, saw that the film looked rubbish and longed for the glory days of Sarah Connor kicking ass, and then they were told that if they didn't like the new film they were scared misogynists. Good Lord.

Also, with these comments, Miller was giving himself an excuse in case the film flopped. It won't be long now until we hear him bang on about the film failing because of toxic men being scared to go see powerful women in the cinema. When he says that, I just hope he can explain Terminator 2.

Hego Damask

Can I remind everyone that we are supposed to believe that this guy goes off and gets married ...





F*ck off Hollywood!!

Calhoun

sirmanga wrote: »

I have no idea why a filmmaker would come out with such nonsense. It's such a turn off for audiences, just look at Ghostbusters 2016. Miller was basically implying that if you don't like the idea of these tough, dull female characters then you hate women.
No, how about making them interesting, relatable and believable. Many longtime Terminator fans were annoyed by Miller's remarks, because they saw the trailers, saw that the film looked rubbish and longed for the glory days of Sarah Connor kicking ass, and then they were told that if they didn't like the new film they were scared misogynists. Good Lord.

Also, with these comments, Miller was giving himself an excuse in case the film flopped. It won't be long now until we hear him bang on about the film failing because of toxic men being scared to go see powerful women in the cinema. When he says that, I just hope he can explain Terminator 2.

It seems to be the go to mechanism for the film industry to blow up the hype for movies which may or may not be performing to well. They do it in the hope of reaching an audience beyond their existing fan base. Problem is for the most part as its not sincere people see through it and you get no new fans and just piss off your existing base.

You hit the nail on the head with the excuse thing, that is also another tactic that is used.

pixelburp

Well, that's at least one surprise spoiled. Probably my own fault for still being here but the film is only out a week. Goddamnit.

Loughc

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

With the predicted losses this franchise is going to be radioactive.

No one will touch it.

Why they cancelled the Sarah Connor Chronicles just as that was getting going is the biggest crime in the terminator franchise.

silverharp

oddly RT has a decent 84% audience score , unless the film company are paying bots to write reviews? their cr@ppy marketing did enough to scare off anyone who would hve given the movie a bad review, erm basically most people . expected to lose 120 million lol

sirmanga

Calhoun wrote: »

It seems to be the go to mechanism for the film industry to blow up the hype for movies which may or may not be performing to well. They do it in the hope of reaching an audience beyond their existing fan base. Problem is for the most part as its not sincere people see through it and you get no new fans and just piss off your existing base.

You hit the nail on the head with the excuse thing, that is also another tactic that is used.

Most of the time when a film goes for this "woke" buzz, it flops hard. Captain Marvel had the same kind of "this film will scare men" tripe, but that did tremendous business. But that was simply down to it being part of a long, interwoven series of films. I genuinely believe Marvel could present a film starring Ian Brady in the lead role, consisting entirely of him reading from an Avon catalogue, and it would be number 1 at the box office.

But the Terminator fans don't seem to be as die hard as Marvel's, obviously.

jill_valentine

if they didn't like the new film they were scared misogynists

That is still not what he said, no matter how many times it is claimed it was.

If I was to glibly say, in 1991, that Sarah Connor would piss off misogynists, it would not be a radical or mindblowing statement to make.

If I say, in 2019, that a non sexualised six foot short haired woman with no male counterpart would be off putting to misogynists, it isn't just a reasonable thing to say, it's demonstrably true. The sky is blue. Water is wet.

Somebody being able to cite one (1) female character grandfathered in from 1984 they liked is not an all defeating innoculation. Most particularly given how many times I've seen people try it and then in the same breath highlight approvingly some way 1991's Sarah "still" looked like a woman to them by comparison, or - tellingly - argue subsequently that John was always the main character anyway.

Whether it was wise to say given how eager Youtube channels are to drum up the red orchestra for clicks these days is irrelevant to whether it was true or not. The hysterical response to a simple, offhand statement has done far more to convince me it was than it wasn't.

sirmanga

jill_valentine wrote: »

That is still not what he said, no matter how many times it is claimed it was.

He said that if you didn't like his idea of what a female action hero is then you are a closeted misogynist. If you don't like the character he is presenting, what right does he or anyone else have to call you a woman hater? Obviously other people felt the same, as they didn't bother their backsides to go see the film. I just wish I had done the same.

Venom

sirmanga wrote: »

Most of the time when a film goes for this "woke" buzz, it flops hard. Captain Marvel had the same kind of "this film will scare men" tripe, but that did tremendous business. But that was simply down to it being part of a long, interwoven series of films. I genuinely believe Marvel could present a film starring Ian Brady in the lead role, consisting entirely of him reading from an Avon catalogue, and it would be number 1 at the box office.

But the Terminator fans don't seem to be as die hard as Marvel's, obviously.

Old school Marvel fans along with newer MCU fans, have had 17+ good to great movies that all fit together almost perfectly, to keep them entertained and earn that loyalty over a pretty short time frame. Terminator fans on the other hand, have only got 2 great and now 4 rubbish movies that are in a constant reboot of the series, in almost 3 times that time frame. It's no wonder people just don't care about the Terminator franchise any more.

high_king

sirmanga wrote: »

I have no idea why a filmmaker would come out with such nonsense. It's such a turn off for audiences, just look at Ghostbusters 2016. Miller was basically implying that if you don't like the idea of these tough, dull female characters then you hate women.
No, how about making them interesting, relatable and believable. Many longtime Terminator fans were annoyed by Miller's remarks, because they saw the trailers, saw that the film looked rubbish and longed for the glory days of Sarah Connor kicking ass, and then they were told that if they didn't like the new film they were scared misogynists. Good Lord.

Also, with these comments, Miller was giving himself an excuse in case the film flopped. It won't be long now until we hear him bang on about the film failing because of toxic men being scared to go see powerful women in the cinema. When he says that, I just hope he can explain Terminator 2.

Spot on. This film can go down the males are weak and evil sexist route Gillette already tried. So much for true equality.

McDermotX

Just catching a bit of T2 before knocking off the TV there on one of the movie channels


Can't help thinking

Calhoun

Its very easy to say the problems with this film are down to the directors comments in a press conference but that is completely untrue.

Some of the more critical voices i have watched reviewing this thought the biggest let down in the film was actually Arnie and Linda, the other characters got better reviews.

Its failing at the box office is being hinted at the film being much of the same from the other films.

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Woeful movie. It shouldn't have been made. There was about 5-10 seconds near the start when we saw these Terminators coming out of the water and that was the part we've needed for over 30 ****ing years - the future war.

Give us the god damn future war - grim death, radiation sickness, eating rats and cockroaches, no natural light, living in **** and dying in droves hunted by relentless machines - it's the only thing left to do in this franchise. And not the mess we saw in Terminator 4.

Everything in Dark Fate has been done. It was tedious, tired, unbearably trite. The Terminator just wandered off after killing John Connor and met a woman and settled down? What the ****! Who ****in wrote that?!?

It's done, and it's died a terrible death. There can be no resurrecting this franchise now. T1 and T2, forget everything else. Those were the good times.

Uncle Charlie

This has to be the final nail in the Terminator franchise coffin.

I can't see them coming back after this.

Kermit.de.frog

@jill-valentine

To be fair insulting the audience or fans by implying that if you hate the movie you must have issues was a really dumb thing to say.

The issues with the movie are that it just isn't that good. Nothing to do with the cast who did their best with a bad hand Imo.

Chris_Heilong

Well it failed, nothing is going to change that now, franchise killer and even though I thought it was alright I can understand the public not wanting to support a franchise which is not delivering.

El Duda

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only good 'Terminator sequel' is The Guest.

ancapailldorcha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

@jill-valentine

To be fair insulting the audience or fans by implying that if you hate the movie you must have issues was a really dumb thing to say.

The issues with the movie are that it just isn't that good. Nothing to do with the cast who did their best with a bad hand Imo.

Depends on what phrasing is used. People whining about some sort of political agenda are just being overly sensitive. They could always just.. I don't know... stay at home and not watch it.

I've criticised the pacing above and questioned whether or not Arnie should have been left out altogether. Legit criticism is fine but implying that this is some sort of anti-male propaganda is just pathetic.

Kirby

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Depends on what phrasing is used. People whining about some sort of political agenda are just being overly sensitive. They could always just.. I don't know... stay at home and not watch it.

They did. And it tanked. The box office is awful.

It's kind of like last year when the gaming series "Battlefield" put female allied soldiers front and centre in their World War II game. There was backlash and those that weren't happy were accused of being sexist for pointing out there were hardly any female soldiers in combat during this time for the Allies. Apparently, pointing out historical fact is being sexist and we should be more "woke".

Then the games lead developer said "If you don't like it, don't buy it!". And people listened. And it tanked. And they had to do a mea culpa for destroying their own cash cow.

Nothing good ever comes of insulting your audience.

ancapailldorcha

Kirby wrote: »

They did. And it tanked.

That's better, no? Seeing the thing and whinging about it is just pointless. If people don't want something and they vote with their wallets then it'll just disappear.

johnny_ultimate

Personally, I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say audience apathy towards Terminator - now illustrated across three consecutive sequels - was far more consequential for this film’s box office than anything Tim Miller said about Internet whingers.

Calhoun

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Personally, I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say audience apathy towards Terminator - now illustrated across three consecutive sequels - was far more consequential for this film’s box office than anything Tim Miller said about Internet whingers.

That pretty much is allot of what even the most critical online are saying. Like another poster on this forum has said, give us the war.

silverharp

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Personally, I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say audience apathy towards Terminator - now illustrated across three consecutive sequels - was far more consequential for this film’s box office than anything Tim Miller said about Internet whingers.

possible but making woke movies generally means introducing elements that just make movies worse than they otherwise would be. This movie ticks a lot of the boxes

j.s. pill II

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Woeful movie. It shouldn't have been made. There was about 5-10 seconds near the start when we saw these Terminators coming out of the water and that was the part we've needed for over 30 ****ing years - the future war.

Give us the god damn future war - grim death, radiation sickness, eating rats and cockroaches, no natural light, living in **** and dying in droves hunted by relentless machines - it's the only thing left to do in this franchise. And not the mess we saw in Terminator 4.

Everything in Dark Fate has been done. It was tedious, tired, unbearably trite. The Terminator just wandered off after killing John Connor and met a woman and settled down? What the ****! Who ****in wrote that?!?

It's done, and it's died a terrible death. There can be no resurrecting this franchise now. T1 and T2, forget everything else. Those were the good times.

I was very curious about this myself. According to Wikipedia, it was James Cameron!

"Cameron devised the idea of a T-800 Terminator that is "just out there in this kind of limbo" for more than 20 years after carrying out an order, becoming more human "in the sense that he's evaluating the moral consequences of things that he did, that he was ordered to do back in his early days, and really kind of developing a consciousness and a conscience". Cameron considered this iteration of the character to be more interesting than those featured in his first two films, saying, "We've seen the Terminator that was programmed to be bad; you've seen the one that was programmed to be good, to be a protector. But in both cases, neither one of them have free will." Schwarzenegger enjoys interior decorating, so Cameron suggested that his T-800 character in the film have a drapery business."

As stated in a previous post, this scene prompted me to walk out. I'm still hurtin'! :eek:

Ethereal Cereal

I'm really disappointed it didnt do better.

I thought McKenzie Davis was an unbelievable action star, she really saved the movie for me. It was great to see Linda Hamilton back on screen carrying on her hard-ass T2 character. Tim Miller is a good director (even just based on deadpool alone) and Gabriel Luna made for an excellent improvement on an evil terminator.

I think there were just some bad bad mistakes that tanked this movies word of mouth.

- The opening 10 minutes everyone is talking about
- The new timeline playing out exactly like the old timeline
- Happily Married, foot ball watching, drapes selling, t800
- The underwhelming finale...

I think studio execs will see this now as not being able to sell a female led action movie, and be hesitant to produce more movies in this vein. Which, I don't think anyone can argue, is disappointing.

1o059k7ewrqj3n

j.s. pill II wrote: »

I was very curious about this myself. According to Wikipedia, it was James Cameron!

"Cameron devised the idea of a T-800 Terminator that is "just out there in this kind of limbo" for more than 20 years after carrying out an order, becoming more human "in the sense that he's evaluating the moral consequences of things that he did, that he was ordered to do back in his early days, and really kind of developing a consciousness and a conscience". Cameron considered this iteration of the character to be more interesting than those featured in his first two films, saying, "We've seen the Terminator that was programmed to be bad; you've seen the one that was programmed to be good, to be a protector. But in both cases, neither one of them have free will." Schwarzenegger enjoys interior decorating, so Cameron suggested that his T-800 character in the film have a drapery business."

As stated in a previous post, this scene prompted me to walk out. I'm still hurtin'! :eek:

Surely he did it to completely ruin the movie so that only his films remain untarnished? It’s bonkers. We saw in T2 that the Terminator CPU is set to read only and can’t think for itself ie learn, just follow orders. Cameron just pulled that out of his ass.

tylercheribini

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Surely he did it to completely ruin the movie so that only his films remain untarnished? It’s bonkers. We saw in T2 that the Terminator CPU is set to read only and can’t think for itself ie learn, just follow orders. Cameron just pulled that out of his ass.

It must have downloaded a patch haha

Corvo

j.s. pill II wrote: »

I was very curious about this myself. According to Wikipedia, it was James Cameron!

"Cameron devised the idea of a T-800 Terminator that is "just out there in this kind of limbo" for more than 20 years after carrying out an order, becoming more human "in the sense that he's evaluating the moral consequences of things that he did, that he was ordered to do back in his early days, and really kind of developing a consciousness and a conscience". Cameron considered this iteration of the character to be more interesting than those featured in his first two films, saying, "We've seen the Terminator that was programmed to be bad; you've seen the one that was programmed to be good, to be a protector. But in both cases, neither one of them have free will." Schwarzenegger enjoys interior decorating, so Cameron suggested that his T-800 character in the film have a drapery business."

As stated in a previous post, this scene prompted me to walk out. I'm still hurtin'! :eek:

It was those scenes that totally jolted me out of the movie. As I had said in a previous post, I actually burst out laughing I found it so stupid. What made it worse was that it was actually some of Arnies best acting in quite some time.

I was actually enjoying the movie up until that point. Yes I understood the criticisms of the opening scene and knew that it would be controversial, but I at least appreciated that they took a brave move.

However as the movie progressed, it became obvious it was just a rehash and the scenes on the plane were just over the top and confusing. The ending was just a shoulder shrug and I didn't have any emotional attachment to pretty much any character. The one scene I enjoyed after the T-800 reveal was Graces speech to Dani.

As another poster said, if they do try for another Terminator movie (and god knows they will, because they seem bereft of any creativity these days) it has to cut ties and give the fans what they want - which is an R rated future war experience.

I won't hold my breath that we will ever see a Terminator movie of much quality again, though. What a pity.

SirLemonhead

j.s. pill II wrote: »

I was very curious about this myself. According to Wikipedia, it was James Cameron!

"Cameron devised the idea of a T-800 Terminator that is "just out there in this kind of limbo" for more than 20 years after carrying out an order, becoming more human "in the sense that he's evaluating the moral consequences of things that he did, that he was ordered to do back in his early days, and really kind of developing a consciousness and a conscience". Cameron considered this iteration of the character to be more interesting than those featured in his first two films, saying, "We've seen the Terminator that was programmed to be bad; you've seen the one that was programmed to be good, to be a protector. But in both cases, neither one of them have free will." Schwarzenegger enjoys interior decorating, so Cameron suggested that his T-800 character in the film have a drapery business."

As stated in a previous post, this scene prompted me to walk out. I'm still hurtin'! :eek:

I liked how in Genysis, he went off and did construction work while he was waiting. That made some sort of sense, unlike being a draper... considering the fella can only see in shades of red