What do you want from a blog? [no names please]

retro:electro · 06-03-2016 10:45PM

SB_Part2 wrote: »

But she did promote it. She snap chatted about it and had some Instagram posts. Do you realise how much something like this would have helped that company?

If she hadn't promoted it people wouldn't have remembered it.

I think there's a huge difference between just being sent something and actively seeking out a company because you think the product is good and want to promote it. It cost them a coat. How many coats do you think they sold from Rosemary posting about it?

How many bloggers RAVED about the Pippa Palette? Do you think they asked for them because they wanted to promote it because it's a great product? Not a hope. They were sent it for free. It's an absolute piece of junk but that didn't stop them posting about it.

How many times have you been burned by bloggers recommending something that turned out to be crap? It's happened me more times than I'm willing to admit.

It doesn't change the fact that she was dishonest to her followers. I can guarantee you the majority of people who follow rosemary do so because of her "honesty" and her ability to cut through the crap. To me, her execution after getting the product was dishonest, but it's made all the more dishonest by the fact that she previously said she would be honest and disclose these kind of things to her followers.

SB_Part2 · 06-03-2016 10:50PM

anna080 wrote: »

It doesn't change the fact that she was dishonest to her followers. I can guarantee you the majority of people who follow rosemary do so because of her "honesty" and her ability to cut through the crap. To me, her execution after getting the product was dishonest, but it's made all the more dishonest by the fact that she previously said she would be honest and disclose these kind of things to her followers.

When has she ever called out other bloggers btw?

Was she paid cash to promote it? No. She was given a free coat? yes. Did she need a coat? She said no so it's not like she was saving for a coat, got it free and then was able to spend the money on something else (if I'm reading her posts here correctly).

She's also said she's disclose when she's paid. Not freebies.

I admire rosemary for being open and honest here and I admire her even more after reading about the coat thing because she really believed in the product and wasn't just promoting anything willy nilly. If you're not interested in following her anymore that's fair enough but I think you've been overly harsh here.

I think she's getting the brunt of the hatred most people feel for all big bloggers which isn't really fair.

on_my_oe · 06-03-2016 11:10PM

SB_Part2 wrote: »

Was she paid cash to promote it? No. She was given a free coat? yes. Did she need a coat? She said no so it's not like she was saving for a coat, got it free and then was able to spend the money on something else (if I'm reading her posts here correctly).

She's also said she's disclose when she's paid. Not freebies.

I think that's being a bit simplistic. She saw a coat and found a way of obtaining one without payment. Saying she didn't need it is redundant; I'm sure many of us have brought a coat or shoes or lipstick that we didn't need but wanted. I've received a chocolate bar at work but not with any expectation that I tell anyone I encounter that it's a wonderful chocolate bar. Equally I've received free samples on the street (most notably a bottle of cider in London) and when I was asked on the bus where I had gotten it from, I said they were giving them out free outside Westfield and it's an ok cider but I prefer the fruit ones. That's the difference... It's the transparency that's lacking. In a magazine or newspaper we know a product is placed there through free samples and advertising money; in a blogging situation there is often the assumption that the writer is just like the reader, paying for the goods or services out of their own purse. A banner ad is explicit, an omission is as good as a lie.

SB_Part2 wrote: »

I admire rosemary for being open and honest here and I admire her even more after reading about the coat thing because she really believed in the product and wasn't just promoting anything willy nilly. If you're not interested in following her anymore that's fair enough but I think you've been overly harsh here.

I think she's getting the brunt of the hatred most people feel for all big bloggers which isn't really fair.

I do feel sorry for Rosemary as she is here answering questions (maybe it's a future 'Ask Me Anything') but equally I think she is either being delusional or disingenuous thinking that a product exchange is not a form of payment. I'm glad she has standards in selecting the products and brands she works with but that is a USP - if she promoted the opening of an envelope that would degrade her reputation; failing to be completely honest will also degrade it.

groovyg · 06-03-2016 11:41PM

Why are posters so pissed off with the lack of transparency about bloggers. Look at the social medial accounts of those well known in the media e.g tv presenters, actresses/actors, even the some of the irish rugby players they are constantly plugging stuff on their twitter. I assume all of them have been given the product for for free as them endorsing a product will get people to buy it. But nobody seems to complain about it. I just had a look at the v-log of one of the UKs top bloggers and she did a video of a load of beauty products, no mention she got them for free or is sponsored but then her target market looks to be teenagers.

on_my_oe · 06-03-2016 11:41PM

It seems as though we are not the only ones discussing honesty in blogging

http://www.salihughesbeauty.com/features/on-honesty/

DryBalls · 07-03-2016 12:21AM

Rosemary, thanks so much for being honest and engaging on boards.ie ..... I can imagine it is difficult given that you do seem to be bearing the brunt of posters anger/questions regarding bloggers and payment/sponsorship etc. I'm sure that there are plenty of other bloggers who creep around the beauty forum but would never engage with posters when they ask the difficult questions.

Personally I do disagree with you. I think actively seeking a product for free in exchange for promotion, yet not telling your readers,is dishonest, regardless of the fact you had seen your friend with this product and knew it was good.

I also do not like the excuse given of wanting to promote an Irish brand. In that case I think you could have asked to borrow your friends coat to put up a post or two (as you stated you already knew that you liked the coat enough to blog about it by seeing it on your friend) or if you and your friends are different sizes maybe asked your friend to pose for a picture or two. Otherwise just wait and buy the coat.

If you really wanted to promote the brand the above could have been very easily done and been totally transparent to readers. You actively sought out a free coat in exchange for promotion and mislead readers.

You see the crux of the matter for me is that in this example , you could have easily promoted /blogged/reviewed the product in a totally transparent way by borrowing your friends coat to take some photos or you could have saved and bought it yourself. Instead you wanted your own 130 Euro coat for free in exchange for the above mentioned promotion.

Now that's absolutely fine, but you did not let this on to your followers. It literally would have taken you one line and I think followers would respect you way more as you are being totally transparent. I mean to me, receiving a product for free in exchange for promoting is basically like a paid advertisement. I know it's doesn't pay your bills etc but it's definitely akin to a benefit-in-kind if not deemed one anyways!

For example today 4 bloggers happened to attend at the same hotel for brunch with their mothers for mothers day at around the same time. They all appeared super surprised when they ran into each other. But honestly, I am extremely extremely suspicious that it was a freebie in exchange for the numerous snapchats about it. Yet followers are never told this.

Basically, if a blogger - any of you out there reading this - is sent something for free, please say it, please review it honestly - if you are paid to mention it, again say you are paid and it's a promotion and not some random product you suddenly bought and loved - and honestly most readers , definitely going by here anyways, are of the opinion that free merchandise is akin to payment. I mean if I was offered a 100 Euro pair of jeans at work, I would not say no and I would definitely not (please don't be insulted by this) be as ungrateful to say that oh yeah but this doesn't pay my bills.

Faith · 07-03-2016 01:25AM

I have to say, I don't see the difference [for the blogger] in saying "Look at this gorgeous [product]" versus "Look at this gorgeous [product] that [company] sent me". It's a handful of extra characters, and even if you're only tweeting, it doesn't take up much space. Considering that the majority of blog followers seem to want this transparency, what harm is there in including it?

07-03-2016 12:25PM

If you want to see how openess and transparency should be handled while blogging, check out http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/11/garmin-forerunner-review.html.

Right up-front, at the top of the review:

Because I want to be transparent about my reviews – Garmin provided both beta and final production FR620’s, with this review being written on the basis of the final production hardware + software (some photos were taken during the software beta period of course). As always, in the next little bit I’ll be sending them back to Garmin and then going out and getting my own (to be able to support y’all in the comments section down the road). Simple as that.

As well as in his FAQs:

Do you take paid reviews/posts/stories?
No, absolutely.positively.not. Simple as that.

(As a funny side note, I often get pitched by various PR-ish companies to do paid blog posts. The funny part isn’t so much that there’s such a concept, it’s rather the fact that they offer only $10-$15 per post sometimes.)

Do you get compensated by companies for your reviews?
Nope, never. That’d be downright funky. Like bad wet gym sock molding for weeks funky.

Do you get to keep all the gear you review?
Generally no. Almost everything goes back to the companies.

So yes, all those products costing thousands of dollars (or even hundreds) all get sent back. Sometimes the company doesn’t want it back, so then I give it away. Other times, in the rare case someone sends me a one-time use products – then I don’t bother sending it back. An example being a thing of juice or something, I decided they didn’t want that back after I finished with it.

Absolute, total transparency. Anything short of that is a question mark against you

SB_Part2 · 07-03-2016 12:41PM

DryBalls wrote: »

I also do not like the excuse given of wanting to promote an Irish brand. In that case I think you could have asked to borrow your friends coat to put up a post or two (as you stated you already knew that you liked the coat enough to blog about it by seeing it on your friend) or if you and your friends are different sizes maybe asked your friend to pose for a picture or two. Otherwise just wait and buy the coat.

If you really wanted to promote the brand the above could have been very easily done and been totally transparent to readers. You actively sought out a free coat in exchange for promotion and mislead readers.

How many people do you think bought coats off the back of Rosemary posting about them? Do you honestly think it would be fair that the company got more business out of her posts and Rosemary got nothing in return? She got a coat. She didn't get paid cash for it and if they had paid for that kind of advertising off one of the bigger bloggers it would have cost them a lot more.

Tbh the more I see posts about being transparent the more I think people are just bitter about someone getting something for free*

*And I'd argue that she didn't get it for free. She posted something about it to her instagram and while the average joe soap like me and you can do that everyday and don't see it as work - when you are trying to brand yourself you can't just post any ole crap so it is work.

PaulPinnacle · 07-03-2016 12:47PM

Faith wrote: »

... what harm is there in including it?

The big fear for many bloggers is that what people say they want and how they react to things are normally two very different things.

Do a survey of people and they'll probably suggest they want to eat healthy, organic and low-fat foods. Logically, they'd love to do all of those things and when they're thinking about answering the question they genuinely mean all these things. In reality, they'll often go out and grab a processed meal or some fast food.

Our decisions, especially purchasing decisions, are most often emotional and not logical. There's a genuine concern that while people say they want full disclosure on promotion (and I'm one of those people, especially as I work in marketing and know just how extensive it is), that when it actually happens they'll walk away and stop following the account/person in question. There have been a few small tests carried out on it that suggest it's far more about how it's executed than a black and white issue where it's negative across the board, but there are enough numbers there to suggest it is a real concern for those it impacts.

There's quite a bit of talk of legal ways to tackle it and require full disclosure of promotional posts and native advertising, but the reality is that while we can all spot posts that we KNOW are advertisements, we've no way of proving it. All it takes is enough ambiguity in the paper trail behind payments and it would be nigh on impossible to tackle in a legal capacity. Just look at the trouble Google have had with tackling paid backlinks over the last 10 years to show it's an unwinnable battle.

As for the comments about the time required to make a post and it not having a commensurate value for the products, that's up to the person doing the advertising to ensure they're getting a return on so slightly irrelevant when discussing the ethical implications of disclosure. The businesses are paying for access and reach to a targeted group, not for the time required to 'do it'. The 30 seconds it takes to upload a photo doesn't take any notice of the years a person has spent building a community, earning trust within that community, learning how to grow that following and investing time and effort into executing the things they've learned.

A brand should have a strong idea of what type of following a champion/evangelist/ambassador/influencer(/other horrible names I'm sure we all cringe at) has, what portion of that is likely to see a post/mention, what % of that is likely to act upon it, what the conversion rate will be from there right the way through to purchase and what the likely financial returns will be. If they can pretty much break even on the direct returns they get, they know they'll also benefit from the indirect long-term value of the promotion in terms of the trust, branding benefits, life time value of new customers and future sales.

So the time is irrelevant really. It's all about the reach they can achieve and how targeted (and trusting they are of the person posting) it is. Having said all that, the time taken to build up a meaningful following on any platform is normally pretty crazy so even if it was based on time, it isn't just the posting time that would need to be looked at.

Really impressive to see the transparency and honesty Rosemary has shown in the thread. It's the type of conversation that normally only happens behind closed doors and in relative privacy. Kudos for that.

qxtasybe1nwfh2 · 07-03-2016 04:00PM

I don't think bloggers shouldn't receive free products to review, it would be just nice to know.

Us readers are not stupid, bloggers reviewing stuff at the same time isn't coincidental.

Rosemary, I don't follow you but had a look at your pictures on Instagram and they are pretty, so well laid out and presented. Thank you for getting involved with the conversation.

dudara · 07-03-2016 06:19PM

Where does the line between blogging stop and journalism start? I think we all understand very well that journalists receive many samples and products as part of their job. And we accept how they write about them. I don't think any of us expect Mr Wine Writer to call out which samples he received, but we all know that he's probably listing them because a sample crossed his path AND he liked it enough to list it. The AND part is very important here, because we are trusting this writers judgement sufficiently to let them sort the wheat from the chaff.

But bloggers aren't treated in the same way? Some bloggers are making the transition to paid writers, which effectively makes them journalists.

retro:electro · 07-03-2016 06:45PM

dudara wrote: »

Where does the line between blogging stop and journalism start? I think we all understand very well that journalists receive many samples and products as part of their job. And we accept how they write about them. I don't think any of us expect Mr Wine Writer to call out which samples he received, but we all know that he's probably listing them because a sample crossed his path AND he liked it enough to list it. The AND part is very important here, because we are trusting this writers judgement sufficiently to let them sort the wheat from the chaff.

But bloggers aren't treated in the same way? Some bloggers are making the transition to paid writers, which effectively makes them journalists.

But they're not paid writers. They're being paid to feature a 60 second video of a product that we will see once and never hear of again. I would make the argument that most of the money is made through Instagram and snapchat then their lacklustre blogs.

on_my_oe · 07-03-2016 06:59PM

dudara wrote: »

Where does the line between blogging stop and journalism start? I think we all understand very well that journalists receive many samples and products as part of their job. And we accept how they write about them. I don't think any of us expect Mr Wine Writer to call out which samples he received, but we all know that he's probably listing them because a sample crossed his path AND he liked it enough to list it. The AND part is very important here, because we are trusting this writers judgement sufficiently to let them sort the wheat from the chaff.

But bloggers aren't treated in the same way? Some bloggers are making the transition to paid writers, which effectively makes them journalists.

The difference I think is that people recognise that a newspaper, magazine or TV show has been supplied the products and services as a marketing exercise to be reviewed by a presenter or journalist. We perceive the blogger to be 'like us'. I'm not against bloggers reviewing samples or services, and I'm not against them transitioning into journalists or lifestyle gurus or whatever else... I am against the hiding of source.

You've mentioned that you blog and the investment you've made. If I was looking at your blog and saw the training you have done, it would give me confidence in your opinion. It would add authenticity to your opinion. Stating that you received samples wouldn't detract from this, instead it would let me know that you've done a considerable amount of research (as you've tried a lot of wine), and your honesty in disclosing the source of the wine would give me confidence you're not full of BS - that is, unless you rank every bottle a 'must buy'.

I've read more today about how the US FTC protects consumers by putting manners on bloggers, and it's made me more likely to believe a US blog than an Irish one. There's an element of trust and honesty that I feel is lacking from the Irish scene. It's sad as I would like to support and celebrate Irish products but if I feel I can't obtain an honest review, why would I waste my money? I feel that by refusing to disclose, there must be something to hide

retro:electro · 07-03-2016 07:17PM

Can anyone tell me why bloggers have such an issue with saying "this was free/sent to me in exchange for mention/i was paid to review this". Like what is the problem? Do they feel that through uttering those words their contribution is somehow diluted and nobody will listen to what they have say about the product? I genuinely do not see what a blogger has to lose from mentioning those few words at the start.

hearmehearye · 07-03-2016 07:33PM

I'm so late to this but I read Rosemary's submissions with great interest.

I'll be honest, I used to be a big blog reader and lately my blog reading has diminished dramatically, mainly because I am so fed up of multiple products appearing everywhere. Now this obviously isn't the fault of the blogger, the PR companies working for these brands don't seem to realise that people can get fed up of a product very quickly without even having to buy it, because everyone's blog/facebook/insta/snap has this "gorge hamper that arrived today" or whatever.

Not disclosing if a product/service etc has been sent to them/paid them to promote it/ given free annoys me greatly. A simple "I was sent XXX by ZZZ" takes literally two seconds to say and really makes me trust the opinion of the blogger more (but still not entirely... who doesn't love free stuff?) It's deceptive when it comes to services and hotel rooms, because even if you can tell they're getting the service/room for nothing, it's very difficult to establish what is the standard of that company with regards to that particular product/service. More often than not they've been especially adapted to suit the blogger and wouldn't be the norm for the average joe soap (things like wine & chocolate/robes/jacuzzi baths in hotel rooms etc). It's all well and good to say "Oh I'm in Dublin this weekend and I'll stay at that hotel ModelMary did because I thought it looked really lovely", only to get a land when the standard room is akin to a box room and E99 and ModelMary's kind of room will set you back E300 a night.

I think the "what counts as payment?" discussion is another one entirely, but I will admit I was left scratching my head after the Freddy Jeans debacle a short while ago.

Sorry for the essay it has been a really good discussion.

But basically as a TL;DR (and some) -

- FULL disclosure if the product has been sent out, or given free, or bought with vouchers that were given by a company.

- Less multiple posts about the one product (PRs fault though).

- Less "hater" whinging.

- More exploratory blogging - eg if one had a skincare blog for example, I'd love to know about products that I may only be able to purchase online, I'd like to read the science behind the ingredients (not the stuff published by the company airyfairy peptides etc!), the do's and don'ts of skincare, beneficial and harmful ingredients, useless ingredients etc.. Not just something I could go into boots/tesco/superdrug and see for myself when picking up bottles.

Edit - Just back from a run and realised I forgot the main reason I commented in the first place! Why do we follow bloggers? For me, I might love someone's exercise regimen/make up routines & looks/clothes/lifestyle tips etc, and not care either way about anything else they wear/do/eat. So for example if I love someone's sense of style, and all of a sudden they mysteriously begin to wear and speak mainly about clothes from a particular brand because this particular brand decides to send them 100's of Euro worth of clothes for no good reason - then their style, which I may have loved for its originality and uniqueness is now being influenced by a brand, even if the blogger loves them. Sure bloggers can't help what gets sent to their doors but if a brand begins to influence a blogger too much I get really, really turned off, because it ruins what I liked about them in the first place.

Rant over!

onthemitch · 07-03-2016 10:18PM

I've kind of tried to opt out of this conversation because, to be honest, I was feeling really upset and defensive about it (although I don't for a second think any of you are haters, at least not from what's been said on this thread). I am, as far as I know, the ONLY Irish blogger to EVER come out and be this honest and transparent, and engage in any kind of meaningful discussion, so to be accused of being deceitful, distasteful, that I'd "sell my soul for a freebie" (that on my Facebook page, from reading this convo) did kind of hurt my feelings.

But I guess I started the thread, so it would be a bit cowardly to bow out.

I realise now that readers – at least those posting in this thread – want to know every single tiny detail about how bloggers conduct their business, from when money exchanges hands to when products / services do, and everything in between. Do you realise that, in this ideal future of 100% transparency, blogging would be the only industry in the world (that I can think of) that is obliged to do that? To tell the public – total and utter strangers – exactly how and when money changes hands in their jobs.

My next question is a kind of convoluted one, but bear with me: how far does this desire for transparency extend?

For example, say I have used a product or service – which I have paid for, and subsequently enjoyed – and decide to go back. The brand that provides that product or service, realising that I have a relatively large social media profile, approaches me to collaborate in a way: they want me to post on my social channels every time I use their product or service, and they also ask me to get involved with them when they hold events or customer evenings. In exchange for said product or service, I'll MC an evening event; I'll be their spokesperson, so to speak.

Now, the product or service in questions costs, say, €70. I'd be using it maybe once every six weeks. A sponsored Instagram post from me could cost €300 (this is theoretical, because honestly these figures vary depending on how big the brand is, how many posts and which other channels are involved). For me to MC an event, I'd charge €800 at least. So: the person, actually, who's gaining from this "freebie" I'm just gagging for, is the brand. Do I need to lay out every single little detail of this transaction to the readers of my blog, or followers of my social media channels?

I'd really like it if you'd think carefully about this before responding; it seems like the knee-jerk reaction is to say: yes! We want to know everything about everything! We're entitled to this knowledge! But why? In what other job or industry would I be obliged to disclose every single earning – or payment in kind – or reciprocal arrangement that I come to?

If I'm a graphic designer, and I charge X amount – but decide to do some work for a friend in exchange for, say, babysitting services, why would I want any of my paying clients or, indeed, my other friends, to know about that? As far as I can tell, you expect bloggers to lay everything bare – but, and I hesitate to say this because it just sounds so juvenile, that seems incredibly unfair in a world where no one else is expected to do the same.

Thoughts?

bridgettedon · 07-03-2016 10:37PM

onthemitch wrote: »

I've kind of tried to opt out of this conversation because, to be honest, I was feeling really upset and defensive about it (although I don't for a second think any of you are haters, at least not from what's been said on this thread). I am, as far as I know, the ONLY Irish blogger to EVER come out and be this honest and transparent, and engage in any kind of meaningful discussion, so to be accused of being deceitful, distasteful, that I'd "sell my soul for a freebie" (that on my Facebook page, from reading this convo) did kind of hurt my feelings.

But I guess I started the thread, so it would be a bit cowardly to bow out.

I realise now that readers – at least those posting in this thread – want to know every single tiny detail about how bloggers conduct their business, from when money exchanges hands to when products / services do, and everything in between. Do you realise that, in this ideal future of 100% transparency, blogging would be the only industry in the world (that I can think of) that is obliged to do that? To tell the public – total and utter strangers – exactly how and when money changes hands in their jobs.

My next question is a kind of convoluted one, but bear with me: how far does this desire for transparency extend?

For example, say I have used a product or service – which I have paid for, and subsequently enjoyed – and decide to go back. The brand that provides that product or service, realising that I have a relatively large social media profile, approaches me to collaborate in a way: they want me to post on my social channels every time I use their product or service, and they also ask me to get involved with them when they hold events or customer evenings. In exchange for said product or service, I'll MC an evening event; I'll be their spokesperson, so to speak.

Now, the product or service in questions costs, say, €70. I'd be using it maybe once every six weeks. A sponsored Instagram post from me could cost €300 (this is theoretical, because honestly these figures vary depending on how big the brand is, how many posts and which other channels are involved). For me to MC an event, I'd charge €800 at least. So: the person, actually, who's gaining from this "freebie" I'm just gagging for, is the brand. Do I need to lay out every single little detail of this transaction to the readers of my blog, or followers of my social media channels?

I'd really like it if you'd think carefully about this before responding; it seems like the knee-jerk reaction is to say: yes! We want to know everything about everything! We're entitled to this knowledge! But why? In what other job or industry would I be obliged to disclose every single earning – or payment in kind – or reciprocal arrangement that I come to?

If I'm a graphic designer, and I charge X amount – but decide to do some work for a friend in exchange for, say, babysitting services, why would I want any of my paying clients or, indeed, my other friends, to know about that? As far as I can tell, you expect bloggers to lay everything bare – but, and I hesitate to say this because it just sounds so juvenile, that seems incredibly unfair in a world where no one else is expected to do the same.

Thoughts?

I don't think you are deceitful or disgraceful in anyway.

I don't think the above example makes sense, you do almost a thousand euro worth of work but only receive a product worth 70 euro. In any case you could say you are working together with the brand as you feel it is good.

I think the issue arises because some bloggers buy all the make up they review, whereas some receive samples. Who are we to know is giving a review because it was free or not. A little disclosure goes a long way.

frogstar · 07-03-2016 10:38PM

Honestly Rosemary, I really think you are missing the point and while you are reading the thread I really don't think you're taking anything on board at all

In your example given, I don't see why it would be so difficult to say I'm working with xyc brand on their new product. Readers don't need to know exact details of what exactly exchanged hands but a bit of transparency would be nice.

I think you also do this too as I'm your sure you said similar re oasis previously

retro:electro · 07-03-2016 10:42PM

Nobody needs to know how much money you are making Rosemary, that's nobody's business and that is not the principle of what people are getting at. People want disclosure when someone is working with a brand, it's that transparent, and it's really not as difficult to state as you are making it out to be.

hearmehearye · 07-03-2016 10:42PM

Rosemary, I watch your snaps and love them. I recall you're getting a tattoo lasered, and you've mentioned that the service is free in return for you covering them on social media. That's all it takes. A bit of disclosure doesn't take a massive effort.

In your example above, a blogger doesn't equate to any other job out there (for those that want it to pay the bills). If I open a restaurant for example, no one is going to be sending me enough produce gratis to conduct business. People aren't going to care if Bobby the butcher sends me a sample neck of lamb or Tommy the veg man sends me some sample carrots. My business cannot thrive on samples. I can't advertise samples. Sure I can name Timmy the veg man in a Facebook post and he can give me 10% off an order or something, but at the end of the day they're very very different transactional environments, and any benefit I do receive is very very minimal and probably won't make a dramatic difference to my books. Might help with advertising local suppliers which I would do anyway- regardless of any perks I get from suppliers.

If you're being paid, getting free treatments, reduced price on repeat treatments/services because you're giving the firm coverage on your social media - then I think it's only fair and right to mention it. Not doing so makes me question all services/treatments/mentions bloggers give.

SB_Part2 · 07-03-2016 10:50PM

Where do you draw the line? If bloggers starts saying "I'm working with XYZ" will people start asking what they actually got in return?

bridgettedon · 07-03-2016 10:52PM

SB_Part2 wrote: »

Where do you draw the line? If bloggers starts saying "I'm working with XYZ" will people start asking what they actually got in return?

I think it is no one's business. People may be curious but that is between the blogger and the brand itself.

retro:electro · 07-03-2016 10:56PM

SB_Part2 wrote: »

Where do you draw the line? If bloggers starts saying "I'm working with XYZ" will people start asking what they actually got in return?

I would never ask how much they got paid, ever. All I want to know is whether or not they are working with the brand, it's as simple as that.

SB_Part2 · 07-03-2016 10:58PM

anna080 wrote: »

I would never ask how much they got paid, ever. All I want to know is whether or not they are working with the brand, it's as simple as that.

Yes but working with the brand could mean they got something for free or they got paid a hefty amount of money.

Tbh I think there's a difference. If someone gets paid money to say something is fantastic it's a lot more fake.

bridgettedon · 07-03-2016 11:03PM

SB_Part2 wrote: »

Yes but working with the brand could mean they got something for free or they got paid a hefty amount of money.

Tbh I think there's a difference. If someone gets paid money to say something is fantastic it's a lot more fake.

Yes you are right. That is a paid promotion and it should state that clearly.

retro:electro · 07-03-2016 11:06PM

SB_Part2 wrote: »

Yes but working with the brand could mean they got something for free or they got paid a hefty amount of money.

Tbh I think there's a difference. If someone gets paid money to say something is fantastic it's a lot more fake.

What I meant was I don't want to know the exact fee. Yes I'd agree that the distinction between been given something for free or being paid needs to be made clear as well.

senowenos · 07-03-2016 11:08PM

i saw rosemary's post about this on twitter in my opinion transparency is everything nobody needs to know how much money has exchanged hands just be completely honest about whether you are working with a brand or you received something for free i know you don't like the whole opening up what items are sent to you on snapchat you stated before that you thought it was distasteful
it's so simple to just state that you are receiving payment or a product for free to review and if you do test it write about it don't just post quick snaps or photos and leave it at that

i have a lot of respect for dudara after reading her post that she got a qualification in wine that makes me have trust in her blog ect as it shows she has passion for what she does i wish more were like her

unfortunately some bloggers just want everything given to them with minimal effort put in from them they are the ones who have lost my resect and i have unfollwed nearly all of them and i have zero interest in purchasing anything they are promoting

SB_Part2 · 07-03-2016 11:09PM

anna080 wrote: »

What I meant was I don't want to know the exact fee. Yes I'd agree that the distinction between been given something for free or being paid needs to be made clear as well.

Would you not automatically tune out though if you heard "I'm paid to say this"? I know I would. It's why I don't trust anything on the likes of Xpose etc.

anothernight · 07-03-2016 11:26PM

onthemitch wrote: »

I realise now that readers – at least those posting in this thread – want to know every single tiny detail about how bloggers conduct their business, from when money exchanges hands to when products / services do, and everything in between. Do you realise that, in this ideal future of 100% transparency, blogging would be the only industry in the world (that I can think of) that is obliged to do that? To tell the public – total and utter strangers – exactly how and when money changes hands in their jobs.

You seem to think that blogging is an industry and every blogger out there only does it for money. I think the big distinction between bloggers and magazine journalists is that the bloggers operate in a sector which is, by and large, populated by people who do it as a hobby. Of course bloggers should disclose payments! Otherwise they're essentially posing as hobby bloggers who might have decided to review a product because they liked it, without a business deal behind the review.

As I said in my previous post, there's many blogging niches which are rarely ever used as a way to make money, despite having large followings. To be honest, I've come to expect lifestyle bloggers to be in it only for money, but that's not all there is to blogging.

If I read a magazine I know the journalist got paid to write in it. If I go to a restaurant I know the chef got paid to cook. If I read a blog, there's often no way of knowing. That's why I think the rules should be different when promoting products through blogs.

Out of curiosity.... Imagine you have a friend whose opinion you really trust. One day she recommends you a product, you buy it, and then you find out that she was actually paid to recommend people the product. Would you be happy with that? I know I wouldn't. I'd trust her more if she was upfront and told me she got paid, before telling me her opinion.

What do you want from a blog? [no names please]

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