I wonder when did irish people start using baby formula

rustyzip

I've become hugely interested in breast feeding and the strange relationship we have in Ireland.

I worry about the fact that I wasn't BF and I'm in my 30's now... What sort of health implications it may have down the line.

I would like to know when people started using it in Ireland.

My parents would have been born in the late 40's/early 50's and I'm not sure if they were BF. They don't remember if they were but presume they were. They wouldn't have been extremely poor people, but they wouldn't have been wealthy either... So I'm presuming that they were BF.

I'm wondering if I suppose that people my age are prob the first 'adults' that weren't BF.

Hard to find dates online.

c montgomery

I'm mid 30s and brother is a little younger, both brest fed.

My kids are all brest fed. It's alot easier than having to prepare bottles and obviously more natural. Not all kids or mothers take to it tho.

baby and crumble

I'm the youngest of 3 at 33 and my Mum wasn't able to breastfeed us. It's not for everyone. I don't know how much of a difference it's made tbh.

Lia_lia

I'm 27 and my Mother breastfed both myself and my brother. Until we were one! She was also breastfed by her own Mother. I didn't even know formula milk existed until I was about 11. Thought all babies were breastfed. I remember asking what the big tins with the picture of the duck (sma logo!) was at my friend's house.

I don't know if it's had any effect on my health. Don't think there is anything wrong with formula milk either. Whatever suits.

Grolschevik

Born 1971. Formula fed. No health problems at all bar gout, but that's genetic. PhD educated.

I don't think there's a 'best practice' to feeding your baby. Apart from feeding it enough.

Lady is a tramp

My mum had seven kids, breast fed the first six, bottle fed the seventh. The bottle fed child is probably the most intelligent and talented of all of us, member of MENSA and everything, very sporty and active. But sure that's only anecdotal evidence.

I assumed I'd breastfeed my son, I couldn't and the associated feeling of failure and inadequacy contributed to my post natal mental health issues. In hindsight he was being perfectly well nourished with formula, thank god we live in a country where it's readily available.

Even apart from not being able to breastfeed, I didn't enjoy it at all even when it worked and didn't find it convenient or comfortable. If I ever had another child, I'd maybe plan to breastfeed/express for a week or two max before switching to formula. I don't think I'd feel the slightest bit of guilt about it either, or even about going straight to formula if that were to happen. I was far too harsh on myself first time around!

By the way, I'm still COMPLETELY supportive of breastfeeding in public, extended breastfeeding, etc. I just don't think it's a choice I'd make for myself and my (imaginary future) baby.

Das Kitty

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

My mum had seven kids, breast fed the first six, bottle fed the seventh. The bottle fed child is probably the most intelligent and talented of all of us, member of MENSA and everything, very sporty and active. But sure that's only anecdotal evidence.

I assumed I'd breastfeed my son, I couldn't and the associated feeling of failure and inadequacy contributed to my post natal mental health issues. In hindsight he was being perfectly well nourished with formula, thank god we live in a country where it's readily available.

Even apart from not being able to breastfeed, I didn't enjoy it at all even when it worked and didn't find it convenient or comfortable. If I ever had another child, I'd maybe plan to breastfeed/express for a week or two max before switching to formula. I don't think I'd feel the slightest bit of guilt about it either, or even about going straight to formula if that were to happen. I was far too harsh on myself first time around!

By the way, I'm still COMPLETELY supportive of breastfeeding in public, extended breastfeeding, etc. I just don't think it's a choice I'd make for myself and my (imaginary future) baby.

Same. Both times.

The first time I was so determined that it would eventually work that I seriously damaged my mental health. The second time I was far calmer about giving up.

amdublin

Someone in work tried tell me that in the 70s and 80's it was seen as a status symbol/sign that you were rich if you bottle fed.

As someone who was bottle fed, but without a penny to our name, I begged to differ.

Any thoughts?
Is this true?? Or an urban myth??

meeeeh

I don't think breastfeeding is this big thing. Bottle feeding is in wast majority of cases lifestyle choice. Unless you live in China it doesn't seem to kill anyone but I would hazard a guess that the research that claims breastfeeding is better for mothers and babies probably isn't some great HSE conspiracy against formula manufacturers. It probably is based on some sound facts.

As to why is so popular in Ireland I would guess the historical attitude to anything that could be deemed sexual has something to do with it.

eviltwin

amdublin wrote: »

Someone in work tried tell me that in the 70s and 80's it was seen as a status symbol/sign that you were rich if you bottle fed.

As someone who was bottle fed, but without a penny to our name, I begged to differ.

Any thoughts?
Is this true?? Or an urban myth??

No this is true, I know my mother was actually discouraged from breastfeeding for this reason. We all drank formula. My husband's mother didn't breastfeed either and my granny used diluted cows milk. I only breastfed one of my children and that was just for a few months. I know breast is best and will give you the best start in life but I don't see formula as harmful. It's just one choice in a series of choices. I'm a huge supporter of breastfeeding and believe we should do more to support mums who want to do it, the lack of help is disgusting and probably connected to our formula industry. I also think mums who use formula should also be supported and not judged for it.

Dolbert

My mother was one of 12, they didn't have running water so I'm assuming all were breastfed! But by the time I was born in the 80s bottle feeding was more the done thing. I'd hazard a guess that the introduction of hospital births had a lot to do with it, obviously the mortality rate went way down but I'd say some of the conventional wisdom of breastfeeding was lost. It takes days for milk to come in so there's this fear of baby starving, my son had a lower than average birth weight so there was always this pressure to supplement his feeds to get his weight up. Depending on which midwife was on duty, I was either advised to give him a bottle or to persevere with the BF, there was no continuity. As a result my supply was crap and I ended up combination feeding until 7 months. I actually loved breastfeeding and was initially devastated that I couldn't do it 'properly'. There's a definite lack of support/knowledge out there unless you know where to look. Combination feeding is a funny thing, because you get it from both sides, the breastfeeding advocates who insist that you simply weren't trying hard enough and the others who think you're torturing yourself by 'still' breastfeeding.

The best piece of advice that I got was that, while it seems like a huge deal now, how you feed your baby is ultimately a very small part of his/her life. They'll grow bigger and bolder every day and the milk feeds, whatever form they took, will seem like a distant memory. You'll look at your healthy, happy child and wonder what you were so worried about.

meeeeh

I don't think there is any particular lack of help. It's more the general attitude. While here the discussion is framed around sacrificing mothers who breastfeed alone in the dark, in other countries you are just expected to do it and if there are hiccups you can get formula (which tends to be more expensive). Breastfeeding might require some perseverance at the beginning but it's a lot easier later. I hate the expression I support the women who breastfeed. What is there to support. I never heard anyone saying I support people going to the toilet. Breastfeeding is natural thing to do that wast wast majority of women just do without soul searching and endless discussion.

Dolbert

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't think there is any particular lack of help. It's more the general attitude. While here the discussion is framed around sacrificing mothers who breastfeed alone in the dark, in other countries you are just expected to do it and if there are hiccups you can get formula (which tends to be more expensive). Breastfeeding might require some perseverance at the beginning but it's a lot easier later. I hate the expression I support the women who breastfeed. What is there to support. I never heard anyone saying I support people going to the toilet. Breastfeeding is natural thing to do that wast wast majority of women just do without soul searching and endless discussion.

Wow that's lovely! Especially after loads of us just described our difficulties in detail. Suppose we'd all better STFU and get on with it, historically that's been an excellent strategy in Ireland :rolleyes:

Das Kitty

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't think there is any particular lack of help. It's more the general attitude. While here the discussion is framed around sacrificing mothers who breastfeed alone in the dark, in other countries you are just expected to do it and if there are hiccups you can get formula (which tends to be more expensive). Breastfeeding might require some perseverance at the beginning but it's a lot easier later. I hate the expression I support the women who breastfeed. What is there to support. I never heard anyone saying I support people going to the toilet. Breastfeeding is natural thing to do that wast wast majority of women just do without soul searching and endless discussion.

Not in my experience. It got worse and worse, and after 5 months I was profoundly depressed.

IvyTheTerrible

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't think there is any particular lack of help. It's more the general attitude. While here the discussion is framed around sacrificing mothers who breastfeed alone in the dark, in other countries you are just expected to do it and if there are hiccups you can get formula (which tends to be more expensive). Breastfeeding might require some perseverance at the beginning but it's a lot easier later. I hate the expression I support the women who breastfeed. What is there to support. I never heard anyone saying I support people going to the toilet. Breastfeeding is natural thing to do that wast wast majority of women just do without soul searching and endless discussion.

I disagree.
I had, eventually, a wonderful experience breastfeeding my son. But the first 3 weeks were awful. I was very very sore and it never seemed to get better. I was actually dreading when it was the "turn" of my right breast to be given to my son because it was so painful. I had actually decided on the Friday, if this isn't better on Monday I'm giving up. But luckily I healed up over that weekend.
And this was in a very supportive environment, and in a country where it is easy to breastfeed in public.
I have a relative in Ireland who was asked, by the staff of the hotel where she had paid good money for a christening meal, to feed her baby in a bathroom. Which is illegal.
I know plenty of women who felt pressured into breastfeeding and found it very difficult.
You are lucky if your experience was so easy.

meeeeh

Dolbert wrote: »

Wow that's lovely! Especially after loads of us just described our difficulties in detail. Suppose we'd all better STFU and get on with it, historically that's been an excellent strategy in Ireland :rolleyes:

It's working in other countries where breastfeeding rates are a lot higher. Here women are constantly told how hard it's to breastfeed and how heroic it is. I am not saying it's always easy, I struggled at the beginning with my first one and I also didn't do it more than six months. You might not like it but the attitude to breastfeeding here is as some sort of ultimate sacrifice instead of natural thing to do.

When I went public with second child all the pregnancy material I got was a bit on nutrition and sixteen different pamphlets about breastfeeding. Such a fuss is made about it that it has opposite effect. It's clear that current strategy is not working because breastfeeding rates roughly increased as much as the amount of immigrant women having kids. They seem to get enough support in Ireland to be able to breastfeed.

I have no illusions that some people can't breastfeed. My nephew is premature and my sister in law bottle feed him without any feeling of guilt but at the same time it didn't even occur to her not to breastfeed the second one. And it was no big deal to her because the attitude is it's the thing you do . Here the bottle feeding is considered natural and breastfeeding is this huge sacrifice.

IvyTheTerrible

Immigrants are coming from countries where breastfeeding is the norm.
In Ireland, support is patchy, and if on top of that, you have to hear family members/friends etc expressing disgust about breastfeeding, or saying "Ah just give him the bottle" etc etc and the culture is pro-bottle feeding, then it's a lot harder to just get on with it.

meeeeh

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Immigrants are coming from countries where breastfeeding is the norm.
In Ireland, support is patchy, and if on top of that, you have to hear family members/friends etc expressing disgust about breastfeeding, or saying "Ah just give him the bottle" etc etc and the culture is pro-bottle feeding, then it's a lot harder to just get on with it.

But that is my point, until breastfeeding is this big thing you do instead something natural, it will never work. I just think all the positive support and prasing women who breastfeed has the same effect as disgust. It makes breastfeeding seem to be this big thing only few can master.

Neyite

amdublin wrote: »

Someone in work tried tell me that in the 70s and 80's it was seen as a status symbol/sign that you were rich if you bottle fed.

As someone who was bottle fed, but without a penny to our name, I begged to differ.

Any thoughts?
Is this true?? Or an urban myth??

Possibly one of the reasons. I'm an 80's child and the only women I ever saw breastfeeding were traveller women. All my mother's friends and neighbours all bottle fed. My mother was bottle fed. All her siblings bottle fed my cousins. Babies went into a big nursery in the hospital and were fed in a strict schedule by nurses. I think the only time breast milk was preferred was with very premature babies. I was premature and while I was given breast milk, it wasn't my mothers milk, it was donor breast milk. And do you know, it wouldn't have even occurred to her to think this was odd.

There was also a religious thing. Breasts were sexualised. It was immodest for them to be bared. It was preached from the pulpit that to even look at your naked body in a mirror out of ordinary curiosity was a Deadly Sin. So that pretty much confined a breastfeeding mother to the home. Tricky if you didn't have a washing machine and used the laundrette, or had to walk your children to school /pick them up, get groceries etc. If you worked, (after the lifting of the marriage ban in the 70's) then maternity leave was a mere 12 weeks, and likely not as strictly protected as it is today. In the 80's it was stretched to 16 weeks. So in order to get back to work, you needed your child to be on a bottle before then. Public Health Nurses here in Ireland advocated baby rice in a bottle at 8 weeks in the mid 70's.

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't think there is any particular lack of help. It's more the general attitude. While here the discussion is framed around sacrificing mothers who breastfeed alone in the dark, in other countries you are just expected to do it and if there are hiccups you can get formula (which tends to be more expensive). Breastfeeding might require some perseverance at the beginning but it's a lot easier later. I hate the expression I support the women who breastfeed. What is there to support. I never heard anyone saying I support people going to the toilet. Breastfeeding is natural thing to do that wast wast majority of women just do without soul searching and endless discussion.

In other countries, especially in third world countries where breastfeeding is commonplace, women form a community to help and support each other. They birth each other's babies, they take each other's babies to wet-nurse when a mother is too ill to manage it. They are expert, and surrounded by older women in their community who show them how to do it. Here, often a woman has no mother or grandmother or aunt with any breastfeeding knowledge or experience. She is given advice in the hospital by a young midwife who did a breastfeeding tutorial. She is discharged to home with nobody to ask because we don't know our neighbours that well any more to pop in and ask them to advise you.

It's like trying to learn to swim when not a single person in your family can swim, are terrified and distrustful of the water, are convinced that you are crazy and that you are hell bent on drowning yourself and the 'expert' in the hospital is someone who has read about swimming but has never gotten into a pool or had so much as a paddle in the sea barefoot.

It worked out for you. That's great. It worked out for me too. I had tender nipples on the second day and absolutely sailed through until the baby self weaned. But it was nothing other than luck and support from women around me who breastfed that made it successful for me. I'd never assume that because I found it easy, that all mothers do. We are all different. Some women have fast easy labours. Some don't. Some have an easy breastfeeding experience, some don't. Some get colicky or non-sleeping babies and some don't. All luck of the draw.

The reason there is discussion about it especially in this country is that its a form of feeding that was nearly wiped out thanks to our health service pushing formula. By the church pushing the fact that even this kind of discreet partial nakedness was perverted. Because we still have the men in our families hastily walk out the room when you prepare to breastfeed your child. Because some women still get comments and abuse in public. Because we get told to feed our child in a public toilet. Because breast milk is compared to semen, piss, sh!t, whenever a discussion online starts. Because we have blokes tutting us for breastfeeding from behind page three of The Sun newspaper. Because we want what is best for our baby, and we get judged if we breastfeed, and get judged if we don't.

Keane2baMused

It's definitely here since the 60's. Not too sure before that.

I hoped to breastfeed my first but due to a general anaesthetic and certain medications I was unable to feed him initially and he then totally refused the breast no matter what. With my youngest I did my best to breastfeed (after another emergency section). Fed (or tried rather!) then pumped (would get 1 single ml from all the pumping), then topped up with bottle as she was dehydated. The entire process was taking about 2 hours and so it was almost time to start again at the end! I met with lactation consultants etc and they all conceeded it was unlikely to happen.

This went on for 3 weeks. I was extremely exhausted, defeated, felt worthless and unable to provide for my daughter.

Then I realised something. I was putting myself, my baby and my family through stress for no reason. Formula feeding is not the easy way out either. It's not a choice I wanted to make it was a choice I had to make. I hate making bottles and sterilising etc. But it was that or my baby wasn't getting fed.

It used to upset me when people would harp on about how breast is best and why would anyone bottle feed. Not any more. I think it's pure ignorance and I would say the same to anyone who judged someone for breast feeding.

We all do the best we can, provide love, care and attention and feed our babies. That's all they need and no person is better than the other no matter what they choose.

Milly33

Can i ask a silly question, for some reason I don't know I must have had a weird dream after a friend talking about babies.. But why use formula! Why not use standard milk, not fat free now or any of that rubbish just plain simple milk as it used to be.. Is this not better for babies as it is more natural rather than feeding them formula

IvyTheTerrible

Milly33 wrote: »

Can i ask a silly question, for some reason I don't know I must have had a weird dream after a friend talking about babies.. But why use formula! Why not use standard milk, not fat free now or any of that rubbish just plain simple milk as it used to be.. Is this not better for babies as it is more natural rather than feeding them formula

You're not supposed to give cows milk to newborns. It has a completely different nutritional composition (I think it has more lactose?) than breastmilk. It would actually be harmful to do that.

Keane2baMused

Milly33 wrote: »

Can i ask a silly question, for some reason I don't know I must have had a weird dream after a friend talking about babies.. But why use formula! Why not use standard milk, not fat free now or any of that rubbish just plain simple milk as it used to be.. Is this not better for babies as it is more natural rather than feeding them formula

Cows milk doesnt contain adequate nutrition for a baby and is not suitable as a whole drink until they are over the age of 1.

Milly33

So were babies feed for the first year on breast milk and then cows milk... Must look into it more, why would it be harmfull to a baby...Is it just something that came into fashion formula that is or we were told it, so everyone followed the band wagen

Lady is a tramp

Milly33 wrote: »

Can i ask a silly question, for some reason I don't know I must have had a weird dream after a friend talking about babies.. But why use formula! Why not use standard milk, not fat free now or any of that rubbish just plain simple milk as it used to be.. Is this not better for babies as it is more natural rather than feeding them formula

Well because it's from a cow .... formula can be artificially manufactured to be closer to a human's milk than to a cow's milk.

rainbow kirby

My maternal grandmother would have bottle fed her five children in the 60s (and given solids very early) and my mum bottle fed the first two of us in the mid-80s but breast fed her third in the early 90s. My first is due in around three weeks and I'm hoping to breastfeed, will do my best to make it happen but if I end up having to give bottles so be it.

Milly33

You said it the word "Artificial" surely something that comes natural is much better no..

meeeeh

Milly33 wrote: »

Can i ask a silly question, for some reason I don't know I must have had a weird dream after a friend talking about babies.. But why use formula! Why not use standard milk, not fat free now or any of that rubbish just plain simple milk as it used to be.. Is this not better for babies as it is more natural rather than feeding them formula

I think there is stuff in cow milk that makes it unsuitable for kids under one. I can't exactly remember what but it doesn't work.

Just to add something, I am not Irish but I am surrounded by Irish people who bottle fed or were bottle fed. Nobody turned their back to me, criticized me or made any other issue out of it. Maybe I am just lucky but I would also like to point out that not all women breastfeeding are hounded out of the public.

Milly33

It seems to be more a media thing is it, I have never come across anyone being rude to women breastfeeding...

Yeah reading on it, it is saying after a year but I just wonder where the research as such came from or is it just telling you to do this and that..Guess what i will be doing for the day.

eviltwin

Milly33 wrote: »

You said it the word "Artificial" surely something that comes natural is much better no..

Formula is made with cows milk afaik but it's manufactured in a way that makes it safer to drink. I think on its own its too hard to digest plus formula has additional nutrients that wouldn't be in cows milk.

Keane2baMused

Milly33 wrote: »

So were babies feed for the first year on breast milk and then cows milk... Must look into it more, why would it be harmfull to a baby...Is it just something that came into fashion formula that is or we were told it, so everyone followed the band wagen

Breast milk contains all of the nutrition a baby needs.

Formula milk is essentially a man made version of it containing all of the essential amino acids, vitamins, minerals and fats a baby needs to be sustained.

Cows milk just can't provide this for a new born. It's nothing to do with fashion, just scientific fact.

Milly33

Ahhh thanks evilwin.... Tis an interesting one now i must say

Keane2baMused

Milly33 wrote: »

You said it the word "Artificial" surely something that comes natural is much better no..

What's your point here?

I don't think anyone has stated otherwise.

Neyite

Milly33 wrote: »

You said it the word "Artificial" surely something that comes natural is much better no..

It's a different era. Have you seen Call the Midwife? Pretty good at portraying the 50's & 60's in the UK. New inventions like the washing machine and fridge in the home, hell, even indoor plumbing for some was new and revolutionary. Convenience foods were becoming popular, so formula was probably viewed as the ultimate convenience food.

Doctors and nurses pushed it as a better alternative to breast milk. Scientifically proven, heavily advertised. So as a brand new mum, wanting to give your baby the very best, you'd defer to the knowledge of your doctor or nurse or mum when they insisted that formula was far superior to breast milk.

If you look at developing countries now, formula countries are still using the same..eh.. formula. Getting medics on the ground to promote formula as a better source of nutrition to women. Heavy advertising. Giving out free formula to new mothers. We don't see that kind of advertising campaign here because our government have banned it.

Whispered

I had a very similar attitude to meeeh going in to have my baby. I had a very easy pregnancy and figured breast feeding is so natural, that'll be easy too.

Well it didn't work that way and I needed more support than was available to me. I asked for that support in the hospital and was denied it. (When you have a midwife tell you you're "starving your baby" but have to wait two days for a lactation consultant you feel a lot of pressure to supplement). So there's my previous assumption shown the door. More real life support, rather than pamphlets, is needed and every midwife needs to be on board. One midwife saying something at a particularly low point can change your whole attitude. Funnily, the midwife who pushed me to supplement with a bottle was From a culture where breastfeeding is the norm.

If I had another, I think I'd feel very guilty about breastfeeding. Like I was doing more for the new baby than I did for my first.

meeeeh

Keane2baMused wrote: »

What's your point here?

I don't think anyone has stated otherwise.

I think what Milly meant that something that is not processed so much must be better than formula. Which is perfectly reasonable interpretation if you don't take into account human milk is different to cow milk.

But for older kids I have yet to find any health professional that would suggest formula over cow milk for kids that don't have allergies or other problems.

Keane2baMused

meeeeh wrote: »

I think what Milly meant that something that is not processed so much must be better than formula. Which is perfectly reasonable interpretation if you don't take into account human milk is different to cow milk.

But for older kids I have yet to find any health professional that would suggest formula over cow milk for kids that don't have allergies or other problems.

I took it to mean breast milk / formula is nutrionally better. Which as I said nobody would dispute.

meeeeh

Whispered wrote: »

I had a very similar attitude to meeeh going in to have my baby. I had a very easy pregnancy and figured breast feeding is so natural, that'll be easy too.

Well it didn't work that way and I needed more support than was available to me. I asked for that support in the hospital and was denied it. (When you have a midwife tell you you're "starving your baby" but have to wait two days for a lactation consultant you feel a lot of pressure to supplement). So there's my previous assumption shown the door. More real life support, rather than pamphlets, is needed and every midwife needs to be on board. One midwife saying something at a particularly low point can change your whole attitude. Funnily, the midwife who pushed me to supplement with a bottle was From a culture where breastfeeding is the norm.

If I had another, I think I'd feel very guilty about breastfeeding. Like I was doing more for the new baby than I did for my first.

I think the attitude of health professionals should definitely change. They often even lack knowledge and because a lot of them are under pressure or don't believe in breastfeeding you are left a bit on your own. But you don't need new people just people with better knowledge. My public nurse when I had second child was also lactation consultant. Any issues were quickly resolved. First child was a lot more hard work but at the same time nobody pushed formula, I just think first month, Sox weeks would be probably a lot less painful if I got a bit more information. At least I could avoid mastitis.

But that is another thing people are wrong about. At the beginning breastfeeding isn't this lovely comfortable thing, it's bloody painful for a lot of us. However nobody also tells you that it becomes very easy later on (until you decide to stop, which is uncomfortable again). I am the last person who would be described as sentimental but breastfeeding when it works is one of the most beautiful, tender connections you can have with your child. Even if you forget about scientific actual benefits it's just a lovely cosy experience - again when it works.

112togo

My mother gave all of us (bar me) cows milk from day 1 - we now range in age from mid-30s to mid 50s, so she would have started this in the early 1960s. The only reason I got formula instead of cows milk was because there was a brucellosis scare at the time I was born. We're all hale and hearty, with no allergies, eczema or other sensitivities. Two of my sisters breast fed their kids and my mother was spectacularly unsupportive, to the point of being critical of them. I suspect she felt that they were judging her for not having breastfed, which is why she got defensive.

Milly33

Not you read it wrong Keane2baMused.. Just a wondering one...

IvyTheTerrible

Well I wasn't in Ireland for my baby, so I only know from hearing other people's experiences that while it is easier than it was to breastfeed in public etc. However, I WAS shocked that when family came to visit me, they thought I shouldn't breastfeed in the living room when there were visitors, that it would be "better" to do it in the bedroom. And this was from my sister, who it in her 30s. She is "grossed out" (her words) by the idea of breastfeeding.
So while anecdotal, those attitudes DO exist. People mightn't say them out loud very often, that's all.

Milly33

really by your own family.. Odd.. I get maybe sometimes in front of men they would feel uncomfortable but then But ladies normally get it, or I would hope they do... Haha we used to decorate my sister when she breast feed as she wasn't able to move...

sullivlo

Did my PhD in breast milk so can answer any questions.

Based on the questions already asked...

Obviously, breast is best. However, in certain circumstances it's not possible. Nobody should be made feel bad about their breastfeeding or lack of. I was never breast fed. Didn't do me any harm.

Breast milk changes composition with respect to time. The first milk - colostrum - is practically yellow it has that many nutrients in it. It contains lots of lactoferrin (iron binding), immunoglobulins (immune boosting) and higher levels of lactose. As time goes on, levels of immunoglobulins and lactoferrin decrease and levels of alpha lactalbumin increase.

Milk is separated into whey and casein. Casein makes cheese. The composition of whey varies between humans and cows. Cows milk contains beta lactoglobulin. Which is not contained in human milk. Therefore some humans have issues digesting it. So predigested milk formula are available.

Formula is updated so frequently to match the composition of human milk. As more research is done, the formula is updated.

Tastes gross though (mind you, human milk ain't that tasty either!!)

Milly33

See now there we go..Thank you...

So as such you could give a a baby cows milk and they may not react to it or you could not..Is this correct!

I understand of course like why would you give something to your child knowing that it may react to them... But lets say if you do breastfeed or pump for the first few months, and then use reg milk the chances of damage damage would be less. In such they would react or they wouldn't react.

Sorry for the twenty questions just curios...

Tasted both think it kinda taste like soya milk

seamus

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Well I wasn't in Ireland for my baby, so I only know from hearing other people's experiences that while it is easier than it was to breastfeed in public etc. However, I WAS shocked that when family came to visit me, they thought I shouldn't breastfeed in the living room when there were visitors, that it would be "better" to do it in the bedroom. And this was from my sister, who it in her 30s. She is "grossed out" (her words) by the idea of breastfeeding.
So while anecdotal, those attitudes DO exist. People mightn't say them out loud very often, that's all.

Indeed they do. My mother in law breastfed all her children, so was super supportive of my wife doing it; I'm not sure if she would have been able to stick with it without her mother.

Her sister though, a polar opposite. Both her girls said they wanted to breastfeed, and she tutted and complained from the start. It's "disgusting", "only knackers do it", etc etc. Completely unsupportive, almost trying to pull the baby away and give it a bottle when her daughters were struggling.

I do think there's a small amount of catholic prudeness comes into play in Ireland too, mothers afraid to even breastfeed in front of other family members, and more senior family members thinking that it's inappropriate to be exposing oneself when there's an alternative.
When it comes to matters of the body, Irish people are still very sheltered repressed about it, even if the actual religious belief is gone.

John Mason

I am currently bf my 22 month old. Neither myself or my husband were bf. I had his mother phoning him everyday telling him to give the baby formula at night so he would sleep through (baby was 2 weeks old).

then I had my mother telling me to give him water at night so he would sleep through (he was 3 weeks old).

Than I had the "oh, he is wasting away"; "you need to give him formula" comments. The worse was when he was crying to be fed but grandparents wouldn't give him back because "he had some milk an hour before, he wasn't hungry".

When he was 2 weeks old, I found a PHN run bf group in my local clinic. It was amazing, they told me I was doing a great and to keep going. It was the best thing.

I struggled at the start, I cried, he cried but as soon as I got the rights supports everything became easier. I made so many friends at that group, our toddlers still meet up regularly.

It makes me so angry when I hear about people giving up after 2-3 day or the infamous 3 week/6 week growth spurts. If there were proper supports/service may be so many more people would be able to bf.

There are so many benefits to bf and no just for the baby but for the mother also.

I am in my 40's and I don't really give a **** what anyone thinks of me and I will breastfeed wherever and whenever my child needs to but my heart goes out to the younger mothers I have met on my journey who are terrified to feed in public. My mother hates me feeding in public and is always trying to drag my son off me.

What is wrong with our society that the most natural thing in the world is considered gross. My friend who had a baby at the same time as me, had to leave the room if I was feeding. She asked me not to do it in front of her, I told her to cop on and I would never ask her to bottle feed her baby in a different room

sullivlo

Milly33 wrote: »

See now there we go..Thank you...

So as such you could give a a baby cows milk and they may not react to it or you could not..Is this correct!

I understand of course like why would you give something to your child knowing that it may react to them... But lets say if you do breastfeed or pump for the first few months, and then use reg milk the chances of damage damage would be less. In such they would react or they wouldn't react.

Sorry for the twenty questions just curios...

Tasted both think it kinda taste like soya milk

Well yes, in theory you could give a baby cows milk. But it would need to drink a hell of a lot more milk to get the nutrients that it needs. Human milk is unique in that it changes its composition to meet the needs of the baby. Some studies have shown that if a baby has a cold, it's saliva can send signals through the nipples that more antiviral/antibacterial proteins are needed and they're produced. It's fascinating really.

Damage wouldn't happen, per se. I'll nerd it up here so apologies. Beta-lactoglobulin has a molecular weight of 18kDa, however at the pH of milk, it is present in dimeric form. This means that it's 36kDa. If you can imagine proteins to be little balls, like peas, but all different sizes. When you're straining peas through a collander to drain them, they don't go through the holes, but some of the smaller ones might. Babies intestines are the exact same - they open up to let the proteins go in. B-LG isn't sufficiently digested in the stomach because its structure makes it fairly resistant to the enzymes in the stomach. This means that when it gets into the intestines, it's still massive. Whereas all of the other proteins have been partially digested. Therefore those proteins get in through the intestines and provide the essential nutrients for growth and development, whereas the B-LG doesn't. So it essentially comes out the other end undigested. If babies have the runs a lot, it can indicate an inability to digest B-LG, therefore a pre-hydrolysed formula can be reccomended. So whilst no structural damage will occur, baby won't thrive.

BF/pump for as long as you want or as long as you can. But formula is a very capable replacement for it. As babies get older, they start to get calories from other foods - solids are introduced and proper meals, so babies rely less on milk for nutrition. So THEN it's okay to give just regular milk, but until then, formula is required for nutrients and stuff.

kylith

amdublin wrote: »

Someone in work tried tell me that in the 70s and 80's it was seen as a status symbol/sign that you were rich if you bottle fed.

As someone who was bottle fed, but without a penny to our name, I begged to differ.

Any thoughts?
Is this true?? Or an urban myth??

It's fairly true. The fact you were bottle fed could have been face saving/not letting on how poor ye were. Or your parents could have made the decision to go with the bottle because your mum couldn't breast feed, or they might have honestly believed that it was the best thing to do.

Formula has been going here since the 40s or so: my grandmother was under pressure from her peers to bottle feed, but had more sense than pride and took the frugal route and breast fed. My mum said it was the same for her.

She breast fed 6 of us but had to give up with the youngest two. Her ducts were probably knackered at that stage.

I think every woman should try breast feed: it's free, it's on tap, there's no need to sterilise anything. If she canny though that's not a failure on her part, it's very difficult or impossible for some people and it's more important for a baby to be fed than to be breastfed.

Cosmicfox

My sibling and I were all bottle fed and we're all healthy. I asked my ma about it once and said she found bottle feeding far less awkward than breast-feeding. Helped that all my milk was free off the NHS.

I can see why many don't take to breast-feeding. I've had a few mums on the wards in tears because of the pain and babies failing to thrive because mum can't produce enough, which makes mum feel like a failure. Some people need a lot of support.

Overly pushy midwives don't help. That was another thing my mum mentioned that put her off.

Lia_lia

I'm very surprised at how many people were bottle fed in the 80's. All my cousins and siblings were breastfed. And we are not travellers! Granted I was in the UK when I was a baby and we lived in France when my brother was a baby, but all my Irish cousins were breastfed in the 80's and early 90's.

My oldest is in her thirties and was Brest fed, she was born in a small maternity unit which has now closed down and the nurses and other mother were surprised that I was Brest feeding. They got the occasional mother who was Brest feeding but it was not common. The only help I got was a leaflet the nurse gave me as I was going home, about the La leach league and it was more of ..well if you are going to be Brest feeding you better have this leaflet.