Selling venison to a game dealer ? What'd required

Zxthinger

What does a person need to do or have in place to allow them to sell an odd animal to a game dealer.

Perhaps it's a course that's required but which course?

tikkahunter

Zxthinger wrote: »

What does a person need to do or have in place to allow them to sell an odd animal to a game dealer.

Perhaps it's a course that's required but which course?

Game handling course id and tags , deer hunting license and photo id.

Grizzly 45

Where and when did the tagging come in?

garv123

You used to need tags since the "trained hunter" course came in. tags could be gotten from the NPWS.. your trained hunter Number had to be on them.. Think Game dealer have to provide their own tags now..

Every dear is tagged to the hunter who shot it.. so its traceable if anyone wanted to monitor it.. but they dont..

Grizzly 45

That was kept pretty quiet... No mention on any of the sites or boards or anything.

Zxthinger

garv123 wrote: »

You used to need tags since the "trained hunter" course came in. tags could be gotten from the NPWS.. your trained hunter Number had to be on them.. Think Game dealer have to provide their own tags now..

Every dear is tagged to the hunter who shot it.. so its traceable if anyone wanted to monitor it.. but they dont..

Sound.. Where snouts can o do this course?

Is it called the trained hunter course or game handling course and is there a Northern Ireland equivalent that's accepted?

Cass

Zxthinger wrote: »

Sound.. Where snouts can o do this course?

NARGC are the only ones running the appropriate course.

Is it called the trained hunter course or game handling course

Trained Hunter Course (AFAIK)

and is there a Northern Ireland equivalent that's accepted?

No.

All the info you need is here.

tikkahunter

Nargc run one , price has come down , think i paid nearly 400 bin lids to do it. Irish deer society are bringing out their version this year , think around 350 euro.

I done it 2 years ago and it was on the go a year before that .

If your on the scratcher its free to do like everything else in this country.

cookimonster

The NARGC run the course, the certificate / qualification is London City and Guilds (LCG) and it is the only one recognised by the Food Safety Authority Ireland (FSAI) .

clivej

Just thinking out loud here

Do you have to also bring part of the Gralloch of the shot deer to the game dealer as well??

Cass

tikkahunter wrote: »

If your on the scratcher its free to do like everything else in this country.

Eh, no. Not quite.

My mate, who in on the brew, done a butchering course. Afterwards he thought this might be the way to go. He showed me the paperwork he got back and you need:

• To apply to Solas for the funding for the course
• To show that it is a method/way of earning a crust and that it can actually be worth their while to pay for the course for you.
• Be means tested.

Fail any step you get nothing. Pass all the steps and you may still not get it.

I understand what you are saying, but it's not as cut and dry and get it for free.

.243

clivej wrote: »

Just thinking out loud here

Do you have to also bring part of the Gralloch of the shot deer to the game dealer as well??

No.you just bring the deer carcess no head legs or internals.as a trained hunter you are signing off that the animal was healthy,
as for the tags i Havnt seen that part enforced. just your trained hunter cert number attached to said incoming aminal

sniper83

Sounds very easy and straight forward, no wonder some lads are at it day and night. I have no problem with a lad selling the odd deer, but on my permissions they have got an awful hammering over the years from lads who are full time after them and selling them. what does one get per kilo from game dealers?

cookimonster

Prices I can't give you but grades I can:

Grade A: Head / Neck shot over 20 Kg
Grade B: Shoulder shot & Deer under 20Kg
Grade C: Body Shot
Under 11Kg : no value

Each grade has a different value per Kg.

Rule of thumb with shot placement if it is within 3 to 4 inches of the spinal column (therefore the back straps) then there's a good chance of ' blood splash' or ' blood shot meat' caused by the trauma and is not acceptable in the meat trade and will yield a lower price.
Even neck shot animals can have hidden trauma leading to damage to the prime cuts of meat.

There you go, some more trivia for the bar stools.

sniper83

I presume they are graded per species also?? As in would Sika or Red Deer command a better price than Fallow?

cookimonster

sniper83 wrote: »

I presume they are graded per species also?? As in would Sika or Red Deer command a better price than Fallow?

Nope, weight and condition only, I buy venison from main stream suppliers and there is no species indicated on the packaging, in fact one Irish meat supplier actually has a 'White tail' deer as a lead in picture to the game section in their catalogue even though all the venison is labelled Irish.
Eating quaitly of meat from various species is subjective, I like red over sika while I wouldn't rate roe compared to all three Irish species.

Obviously the bigger animals are more sought after by the trade, in line with the 'farmed meat' demands from the domestic market. Bigger is better, the average consumer wants a large steak, as in wider, longer etc and is not satisfied with a smaller strip loin steak as found on the original Angus beef cattle, today's Angus make its ancestor look like a pygmy in comparison.

staghunter

cookimonster wrote: »

The NARGC run the course, the certificate / qualification is London City and Guilds (LCG) and it is the only one recognised by the Food Safety Authority Ireland (FSAI) .

I did my one with the ngo up north and it's accepted in the south.the nargc would like u to believe it's the only accepted course but it's not.the trained hunter course was introduced to bring Ireland in line with the rest of Europe which has had trained hunter courses alot longer than Ireland.it was Britain that pushed Ireland to set up a programme for trained hunters ass ninty % of our game is exported there.its a European directive to have a trained hunter course.

Cass

staghunter wrote: »

I did my one with the ngo up north and it's accepted in the south.the nargc would like u to believe it's the only accepted course but it's not...

The NARGC are not the ones saying that their course is the only accepted one, its the FSAI (Food Safety Authority of Ireland). Directly from their website:

FSAI wrote:

Who provides training for hunters?

The competent authorities have encouraged hunter’s organisations to provide such training for their members and some hunter’s organisations have developed training courses.

Within the Irish Republic training a course in this area is currently provided by the following hunter’s organisation:

National Association of Regional Game Councils – NARGC
Brosna Way,
Ferbane Business & Technology Park,
Ballycumber Road,
Ferbane, Co. Offaly.
Email: nargc@iol.ie
Phone: 090 6453623
Fax: 090 6453697

Any hunters organisation or group of hunters or individual hunter or any other person that wishes to provide training to hunters in accordance with the relevant requirements of Regulation (EC) no 853/2004, is advised to contact the Food Safety Authority of Ireland, through the FSAI website www.fsai.ie or the FSAI Advice Line at 1890 33 66 77 or email info@fsai.ie for advice on how to proceed.

staghunter

Cass wrote: »

The NARGC are not the ones saying that their course is the only accepted one, its the FSAI (Food Safety Authority of Ireland). Directly from their website:

I don't see where it says the nargc course. Is the only one accepted in the Republic.

Cass

It says in the link i gave and quote above:

Within the Irish Republic training a course in this area is currently provided by the following hunter’s organisation:

It only lists the NARGC. As such they are the only ones the FSAI accept.

If they accepted other courses they would say so. It asks if other organisations want to be registered to contact them.

staghunter

Cass wrote: »

It says in the link i gave and quote above:

It only lists the NARGC. As such they are the only ones the FSAI accept.

If they accepted other courses they would say so. It asks if other organisations want to be registered to contact them.

Yes it says within the republic the nargc provides courses.it does not state any where that it is the only one accepted in Republic.i have my trained hunter number received from the national gamekeepers organisation of Britain and have used it several times and had no problems.the ngo also ran some courses south of border specifically for hunters in Republic.when I contacted ngo about course I personally asked them if this course was accepted in Republic and they stated not only in Ireland but all of Eu,as it was originally brought in because of Eu regulations

Cass

Fair enough. I've not done the course and have no intention of selling game so i'll accept your premise that they can be done anywhere.

cookimonster

staghunter wrote: »

I don't see where it says the nargc course. Is the only one accepted in the Republic.

Any hunters organisation or group of hunters or individual hunter or any other person that wishes to provide training to hunters in accordance with the relevant requirements of Regulation (EC) no 853/2004, is advised to contact the Food Safety Authority of Ireland, through the FSAI website www.fsai.ie or the FSAI Advice Line at 1890 33 66 77 or email info@fsai.ie for advice on how to proceed.

This section basically is inviting individuals / organizations to have their syllabus of training pre-approved or registered with the FSAI.

Legally food safety training can be delivered by a competant individual with prior knowledge of the subject, there is no hierarchy of offical academia. Subject matter and methods of delivery is free in many media variants. The effective use and monitoring is achived by maintenance and retention of documents. These in turn are cross checked by health inspectors during routine on-site inspections.

Since it would be near impossible to monitor hunters in the field the onus on the powers to be is to insure due diligence by use of pre-approved courses that met its European and National legislation.
It would be up to each organization to register their courses with the FSAI for recognition.

The easiest way to find out weather you can use your course is to ring one of the game dealers if they will do business with you then the above is mute.

staghunter

cookimonster wrote: »

Any hunters organisation or group of hunters or individual hunter or any other person that wishes to provide training to hunters in accordance with the relevant requirements of Regulation (EC) no 853/2004, is advised to contact the Food Safety Authority of Ireland, through the FSAI website www.fsai.ie or the FSAI Advice Line at 1890 33 66 77 or email info@fsai.ie for advq
ice on how to proceed.

This section basically is inviting individuals / organizations to have their syllabus of training pre-approved or registered with the FSAI.

Legally food safety training can be delivered by a competant individual with prior knowledge of the subject, there is no hierarchy of offical academia. Subject matter and methods of delivery is free in many media variants. The effective use and monitoring is achived by maintenance and retention of documents. These in turn are cross checked by health inspectors during routine on-site inspections.

Since it would be near impossible to monitor hunters in the field the onus on the powers to be is to insure due diligence by use of pre-approved courses that met its European and National legislation.
It would be up to each organization to register their courses with the FSAI for recognition.

The easiest way to find out weather you can use your course is to ring one of the game dealers if they will do business with you then the above is mute.

Game dealers are accepting this course from ngo

ionh

''Thank you for contacting the Food Safety Authority of Ireland. In order to determine if the course you did meets ROI requirements you should check that it meets the requirements of Regulation 853/2004/EC and the course has to be recognised by the competent authority in the UK, i.e. Food Standards Agency.

It is ultimately up to the approved game handling establishment accepting supply of wild game to ensure hunters satisfy requirements.''

I did the Level 2 Large Game Meat Hygiene (BASC) in the North before NARGC set up their course. The reply from FSAI was effectively that I have an EU recognised qualification as required by an EU regulation.

But it was like pulling teeth to get an answer, and they processed individual queries on an individual basis, instead of posting an opinion for anyone to consult.

On the above basis DSC1 (where the large game meat module was included) is also acceptable