Is it a problem?

intheclouds

No. A person who doesn't have a problem would be listening and trying to figure out if they really are drinking too much.

I can see he is excellent at shifting the problem onto you. Very typical behaviour. He really is a textbook problem drinker.

Ursus Horribilis

Have you ever heard of a functioning alcoholic? Even if you boyfriend isn't quite an alcoholic yet, he's well on the way. It's worth googling .

strandroad

Take score of his drinks, one point for a drink you're positive he had and half a point if you're only suspecting. Tote them up in units at the end of the month and you'll see if he has a problem black on white.

It's an exercise well worth doing if you read the post by problem drinker's wife above.

LegacyUser

I laughed reading your last paragraph there. I could have typed it word for word 6 years ago. In fact, he said most of it too me this summer: He's 'not an alcoholic' because he's not drinking bottle of vodka everyday. He's never missed work. Up to recently it wasn't impacting on us financially (it has now gotten to the point where it is... Remember someone telling you it is progressive?? Nobody suddenly turns into an alcoholic) It doesn't affect anybody because he's not violent, he's not falling around drunk in front of the children. I lost count of the number of times I ended up apologising to him for upsetting him by 'accusing him in the wrong', over exaggerating the extent of it etc etc etc.

It's all manipulation, deflection and lies! You know it is, but you want to believe him. I'm in no position to tell you what you should or shouldn't do.. Look at me, still here putting up with this sht 17 years later :rolleyes: ! Just, please read up an living with an alcoholic and see how many boxes you can tick. You are young, you are only at the start of this road. He may not become any 'worse', but would you be happy for him to stay the same?

LegacyUser

I would agree with the above post. The reality is that your boyfriend has an issue with drinking. He is telling you what he thinks you want to hear. Meanwhile you can see how he is. Your worried about his drinking and you have told him what you see.
He does not want to admit he has a problem and until he does this nothing will change.
The reality is that if he keeps drinking this way it will effect his health long term.

You have told us your both 32. Can I ask you where do you see yourself in 5 years time?
Do want to have a family? Do you want to get married?

You have read one ladies story here about how her husband goes off drinking and how it effects his family life.
At this stage I would be taking the advice here and I would end things with him. He is not willing to do anything about his drinking. Being honest do you want to be with a person who is going to put the bottle before you always?

Tipperary Fairy

Please don't say bad things about him, like he's shifting blame. He's a good person, and it's really upsetting to read someone saying that about him.

LegacyUser

mhge wrote: »

Take score of his drinks, one point for a drink you're positive he had and half a point if you're only suspecting. Tote them up in units at the end of the month and you'll see if he has a problem black on white.

It's an exercise well worth doing if you read the post by problem drinker's wife above.

This seems like solid advice OP. How many drinks did he have this week? How many last week? Or the week before? Drinkaware says adult men shouldn't exceed 17 standard drinks in a week and there should be at least two days a week with no alcohol consumed. A pint is 2, a bottle is 1.5, a small glass of wine is 1, and measure of spirits is 1.
Going by your OP he must be way over this.

Ursus Horribilis

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

Please don't say bad things about him, like he's shifting blame. He's a good person, and it's really upsetting to read someone saying that about him.

Nobody is saying that he's not a good person. He's a good person with a bad problem. What he is saying is exactly what most problem drinkers say. He knows he has a problem and is drinking far too much. But instead of admitting it, he has resorted to lying about his drinking habits, questioning your judgement and turning on you. It's working too. The tone of your posts has changed dramatically since the first one. I can see exactly where this is going. All I can do is wish you well on the path you appear to be choosing. You're in for a rough ride.

Raminahobbin

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

Please don't say bad things about him, like he's shifting blame. He's a good person, and it's really upsetting to read someone saying that about him.

I'm sure he is a good person and nobody here is saying otherwise.

I used to be in a similar relationship where my ex had something he kept refusing to acknowledge. I see so many similarities here, he was an expert at twisting things.

If your bf is deflecting and shifting the blame, it's probably because he genuinely doesn't think he has a problem consciously, not because he means you harm. The problem is that subconsciously he knows he does, and it's making him act in a certain way when challenged.

A lot of people are, unfortunately, very used to dealing with alcohol addiction in this country and can spot his textbook behaviour a mile off. Just because it's textbook doesn't mean he's a bad guy and nobody is trying to blow this out of proportion or undermine his character- but what you really need to realise is how INSANELY toxic alcohol addiction can be to other people in the addict's life. It's not *him* doing these things, necessarily, it really is the alcohol and how it makes him behave.

This is going to affect you. It's going to make you doubt yourself, rewrite history, pull at your heart strings and your empathy like nothing you've ever experienced. Prey on your future.

I wish I was exaggerating, but I've been there. I was left a shell of myself before I even realised what was happening.

It's OK to love him and to want to protect him, but you need to realise that in this case you cannot do that while there is alcohol involved. You need to love yourself enough to put yourself first. You CANNOT save him from this, only he can. And he won't while he refuses to admit the problem.

Wompa1

My aunt goes to work every day too. She's a hardcore alcoholic. She doesn't drink spirits, just beer. She's a high functioning alcoholic but to see how she has aged over the last 30+ years compared to her sisters is pretty horrifying.

intheclouds

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

Please don't say bad things about him, like he's shifting blame. He's a good person, and it's really upsetting to read someone saying that about him.

He isnt shifting blame to be mean to you. Its just a defense mechanism that addicts use. Its not even a conscious decision.

Im sure he is a very nice person. Alcoholics are not just horrible people who also suffer from alcoholism - they are just ordinary people.

beans

intheclouds wrote: »

He isnt shifting blame to be mean to you. Its just a defense mechanism that addicts use. Its not even a conscious decision.

Im sure he is a very nice person. Alcoholics are not just horrible people who also suffer from alcoholism - they are just ordinary people.

Which can be half the problem, if things do get bad. If they're the same person you always loved, the crash is very painful indeed. At least you're both deciding to remain childless.

intheclouds

beans wrote: »

Which can be half the problem, if things do get bad. If they're the same person you always loved, the crash is very painful indeed. At least you're both deciding to remain childless.

Actually personality changes can happen due to brain damage over time, it happened to my own father, his personality literally got wiped out and he became "zombie man who just wanted to get to the next drink".

But thats very late stage stuff and not likely to be happening to the OPs BF at the moment.

beans

intheclouds wrote: »

Actually personality changes can happen due to brain damage over time, it happened to my own father, his personality literally got wiped out and he became "zombie man who just wanted to get to the next drink".

But thats very late stage stuff and not likely to be happening to the OPs BF at the moment.

I feel you, been there. Sure, that's the crash I implied... they remain the same person up until the annihilation. Hopefully never happens to this guy.

My meaning was that we don't think there's a problem because the person in question is still there, until one day they're not. If the drinker became horrible during he process of decline, there may be more warning signs and possibilities to detach is what I was trying to say (I think).

intheclouds

beans wrote: »

I feel you, been there. Sure, that's the crash I implied... they remain the same person up until the annihilation. Hopefully never happens to this guy.

My meaning was that we don't think there's a problem because the person in question is still there, until one day they're not. If the drinker became horrible during he process of decline, there may be more warning signs and possibilities to detach is what I was trying to say (I think).

I understand.

Do you think there is any way back from the crash? I remember once thinking that my own father was so far gone (I hadnt seen him sober morning, noon or night) for about 4 years and his personality had been absent for a number of months, that even if by some miracle he stopped drinking, the person he was was gone, erased, as good as if he'd had a lobotomy.

Now as it happened he never did stop drinking and shortly after the above stage he killed both himself and my mother in a drink related accident.

But when I think back on it, I wonder if he ever could have come out of it by then anyway?

OP - thats where the future can go, literally the person is gone. And I really dont know if that level of damage is reversible.

beans

intheclouds wrote: »

I understand.

Do you think there is any way back from the crash? I remember once thinking that my own father was so far gone (I hadnt seen him sober morning, noon or night) for about 4 years and his personality had been absent for a number of months, that even if by some miracle he stopped drinking, the person he was was gone, erased, as good as if he'd had a lobotomy.

Now as it happened he never did stop drinking and shortly after the above stage he killed both himself and my mother in a drink related accident.

But when I think back on it, I wonder if he ever could have come out of it by then anyway?

OP - thats where the future can go, literally the person is gone. And I really dont know if that level of damage is reversible.

Sorry to hear how your story ended, that's tragic.

I think the person mam was, or had been, was gone for good maybe ten years before she died. Around the point when she started drinking every night, lying about it, when little problems started becoming bigger ones. Those ten years saw her fracture her spine getting into the shower on holidays, losing her job due to drinking, quitting booze (substituting liquor for wine :rolleyes:), and alienating her family.

The 'crash' culminated in imposed detox when hospitalised for a fortnight due to complications due to metastasized breast-cancer, which left my poor ma like a howling lunatic before she faded away into death a few months later. That's the car-hitting-the-wall moment, but the wheels spun-out way back like I said. She was effectively 'gone' for a decade. Was it 15 years even? It was basically as long as I can remember.

Once the brain-damage starts to become evident, according to what I've read, abstinence and intervention can reverse things, but in something like 25% of cases it's irreversible. It's so subjective though.

My father enabled this behaviour, was unsupportive, passive, never engaged, made excuses etc. Classic stuff.

I found Al-anon very useful for getting my head around the scope of our problem some years ago.

edit: OP, hope you don't think I'm muscling in on your thread, I only share this in the context of a cautionary tale. I know every situation is technically different, and hope things go well in your case

gaynorvader

I have a question. How much does he drink in an average week? You mention he drinks every time you go out and finishes a six pack every time he buys one, etc. But in an average week is he drinking every day or nearly every day or only on the weekends?

dont bother

genuine question here, but am i missing something?

the OP says that on occasion he buys a 6 pack and drinks it, he'll have a few beers on holidays and on occasion will have a couple of beers on a sunday with his family.

i'm sorry, but that does not nearly constitute alcoholism. the BF, in my opinion does not have a problem at all, and in fact the OP should give up on hounding him about it. let him have his couple of beers.

the OP never mentioned it being every night of the week, and in fact says it's not every night, or all the time, and by the sounds of it, he doesnt get sh!tfaced or out of his head on drink, so it would seem he isnt exactly drinking to mask emotions....

i think you need to chill out on the idea OP. it's not good that you're pushing the issue so hard, and frankly, the "advice" you've been given here is questionable and maybe is coming from people with too much experience of ACTUAL alcoholism in a very negative way, and it's dangerous to heed their advice in your situation - well, there is no "situation". he sounds like a normal guy who has a few beers ON OCCASION. no big deal.

intheclouds

dont bother wrote: »

genuine question here, but am i missing something?

the OP says that on occasion he buys a 6 pack and drinks it, he'll have a few beers on holidays and on occasion will have a couple of beers on a sunday with his family.

Yes, and what you have surmised is not what the OP has said at all.

She has said that he drinks every day, by his own admittance goes over the weekly recommended units, has had alcohol at breakfast, has had alcohol after breakfast on sunday mornings, that its a constant thing, has lied about drinking, drinks on antibiotics, checks what they are doing so that he can get drinks in if they are staying in, drinks beer he doesnt really like if thats all thats available, etc......

Im not sure what part of the above you think is "on occasion buys a 6 pack and drinks it".

gaynorvader

intheclouds wrote: »

Yes, and what you have surmised is not what the OP has said at all.

She has said that he drinks every day, by his own admittance goes over the weekly recommended units, has had alcohol at breakfast, has had alcohol after breakfast on sunday mornings, that its a constant thing, has lied about drinking, drinks on antibiotics, checks what they are doing so that he can get drinks in if they are staying in, drinks beer he doesnt really like if thats all thats available, etc......

Im not sure what part of the above you think is "on occasion buys a 6 pack and drinks it".

I think you may be misrepresenting what OP wrote a little bit. Nowhere is it stated that he drinks everyday, in fact OP goes out of their way in one of their posts to say he didn't drink during the week.
The weekly recommended units are more of a guideline than anything and I wouldn't let that worry me, nor would drinking with a late breakfast as it seems to be somewhat of a family tradition. If he feels his drinking is going to cause a row I'd understand lying about drinking too.
The real warning bells for me are that he drinks things he doesn't really like for the sake of drinking. That he has a bit of an addictive/compulsive personality (he can't just have a handful of nuts/few squares of chocolate, he has to eat the whole thing). And that every event seems to need alcohol (staying in, going out, on holiday all seem to have him needing alcohol to enjoy them).

beans

gaynorvader wrote: »

The real warning bells for me are that he drinks things he doesn't really like for the sake of drinking. That he has a bit of an addictive/compulsive personality (he can't just have a handful of nuts/few squares of chocolate, he has to eat the whole thing). And that every event seems to need alcohol (staying in, going out, on holiday all seem to have him needing alcohol to enjoy them).

On the topic of warning bells, the main reason I chimed in is that he's the child of an alcoholic.

I didn't mean to imply that this guy was currently drinking every day, only to point out that death-spiral drunks don't drink every day right from the start. I hope he never gets that deep. It's probably a good story for the OP to hear though.

intheclouds

gaynorvader wrote: »

I think you may be misrepresenting what OP wrote a little bit. Nowhere is it stated that he drinks everyday, in fact OP goes out of their way in one of their posts to say he didn't drink during the week.

From the opening post:

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

Since we've been in Australia, I don't think there's been more than one day in a week that he hasn't had something to drink.

Apologies - not every day, 6 days a week.

And in fact, I did not misrepresent the OP at all, I actually copied from the original post!

LegacyUser

intheclouds wrote: »

From the opening post:



Apologies - not every day, 6 days a week.

And in fact, I did not misrepresent the OP at all, I actually copied from the original post!

well, the OP had changed the story since the first post, both saying that this "breakfast" was in fact on holidays and AFTER 1pm in the afternoon, so "has drink with breakfast" as you said is false, and sounds like you are trying to make out as if he wakes up every day and has drink for breakfast. he does not.

also, the OP said in a later post that it's not every day, and you have chosen to highlight ONE sentence about being abroad in a hot sunny country on a working holiday (probably) and he has a beer or two or in this case it was three.

i just think it's unwise to give this hyped advise to someone who does not have a drinking problem.

they are not going into a death spiral and they are nowhere close to being an alcoholic from the sounds of all the posts.

I didnt want to say this because it could be construed as trolling, but OP you are in the wrong here and you need to drop the whole thing if you want to keep your (normal non alcoholic) boyfriend.

maybe the reason he is having a drink so often is because he is stressed from your nagging? the same reason he may "hide" it from you - although if he was trying to "hide" an alcohol problem, i'm sure he wouldn't have left cans lying around the house for you to see when you visit....

it's just over hyped nonsense, i'm sorry, but the OP said "it is not a problem for either of us"....

so why the thread in the first place then>?

gaynorvader

intheclouds wrote: »

{...}
Apologies - not every day, 6 days a week.

And in fact, I did not misrepresent the OP at all, I actually copied from the original post!

I suspect Australia is a holiday? Though obviously I don't know.

LegacyUser

I suppose this comes down to whether or not your drinking habits are compatible, and it seems they are not. As a grown aduly with no ties or responsibilities then we can all say he is entitled to do what he likes when he likes. But you are also a grown adult, and if you are uncomfortable with a given situation, or personality trait, then you are equally entitled to be uncomfortable with that.

I don't know of my husband is an alcoholic or not. He has cut down substantially lately, but for a year or more he had lost the run of himself. I was uneasy with his level of drinking from pretty early on in the relationship (maybe it was when I went to his niece's first birthday party and every member of his family turned up with cans and bottles and the 1 year old's party became a karaoke session until 2am!) but I ignored things that made me uneasy and now I am in a difficult situation.

Maybe he doesn't need to cut down, or stop drinking, but maybe you don't have to "lighten up" and just accept it either. We are all different and all have different tolerance levels for things... That's allowed! It's something you should both be able to discuss together though.

LegacyUser

Ok OP your situation sounds very similar to mine, my boyfriend is child of an alcoholic, something he would never speak about much and I noticed a lot of similar patterns to the ones you're decribing. The difference is that my OH is a bad drunk, very bad, and it came to the point I would make sure I wasn't around if he was drinking as something would start and it would spiral badly. It's like he changed personality and was out of control.
Now you say he doesn't drive and I don't know what the situation is with your OH whether he would be able to learn or not, but that was what made me see a marked change in my OH. He cycled/walked everywhere previously and it in a way enabled the constant pint here, pint there wherever he or us were going. Since he's has had to learn to drive, he rarely drinks as he just loves to drive everywhere and obviously won't touch it if he is. Now this may be papering over the problem and I do worry that the issues will reimmerge in some way because he didn't deal with the underlying problem, but I have to say you wouldn't believe the change it makes when the option is taken away in this way. It sort of enables the mindless drinking, just because you can when you're not driving, and it sort of progresses then. And because I don't drive, he always has to be the driver. It's just one thing that could improve the situation, and has resulted in far less drinking.

Tipperary Fairy

Yeah I got the feeling that the reactions here were a bit over the top. The average I would say he drinks is 3-4 beers. It's not for breakfast, it's not every day.

I think he didn't react well to it, but yeah it seems many of you didn't take me up right at all. Maybe some of that is my fault.

I think he probably has a bit more than the average person, but as long as he keeps an eye on the overall amount, I'm not sure there will be a problem.

Thanks for everyone who took the time to respond constructively. Mods you can close the thread now